Re: Windows10 Creators Update

2017-07-17 Thread Achim Gratz
Corinna Vinschen writes:
>> But, then again, what's the lowest address for the wow64 DLLs you
>> observed?  And what about native 32 bit (no wow64 DLLs)?

I can't test native 32bit easily (have to request a test hardware at
work), all my systems at home are 64bit/WoW64 combos.

On WoW64, the lowest I've seen was this:

58E6-58E61000 r--p  : 0   
/cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/wow64.dll

This was after update and before reboot.

The lowest I've seen after clean reboots was somwhere around 0x6A00,
IIRC.

>> We can't stabilize the address for the Windows DLLs, but we
>> can obviously adapt to it by changing rebase.

But that restricts and already strained resource.  I _think_
(i.e. haven't checked) it'd be almost impossible to still get one of the
desktop environments running if we did that.


Regards,
Achim.
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Re: Windows10 Creators Update

2017-07-17 Thread Corinna Vinschen
On Jul 17 10:09, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> On Jul 16 11:10, Achim Gratz wrote:
> > Achim Gratz writes:
> > > I've finally got that update installed on my Windows10 box and sure
> > > enough I immediately got fork problems (on 32bit only).  Since this
> > > update the WoW64 DLLs get mapped below 0x7000:
> > 
> > …and on each reboot these end up somewhere else, sometimes even above
> > 0x700 as intended.
> 
> It seems the Windows team raised the size of the ASLR pool on 32 bit, at
> least on wow64.
> 
> > > In all likelyhood that means we can't really support 32bit on Windows 10
> > > anymore unless there's a way to stabilize the addresses used by these
> > > DLL and then teaching rebaselst to rebase from a lower starting point.
> > 
> > Or we will have to ask our users to reboot more often.  :-(
> 
> Sounds like a plan.
> 
> On Wow64 we have the upper 2 Gigs address space for us, but I vaguely
> recall that there was a problem moving the DLLs into this area.  That's
> why we only have heap and mmap there these days.  Maybe we should
> reconsider...
> 
> But, then again, what's the lowest address for the wow64 DLLs you
> observed?  And what about native 32 bit (no wow64 DLLs)?

On native 32 bit:

6B1E-6B1E1000 r--p  5A70:6C49 2814749767187753
/cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/winrnr.dll

> We can't stabilize the address for the Windows DLLs, but we
> can obviously adapt to it by changing rebase.


Corinna

-- 
Corinna Vinschen  Please, send mails regarding Cygwin to
Cygwin Maintainer cygwin AT cygwin DOT com
Red Hat


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Re: Windows10 Creators Update

2017-07-17 Thread Corinna Vinschen
On Jul 16 11:10, Achim Gratz wrote:
> Achim Gratz writes:
> > I've finally got that update installed on my Windows10 box and sure
> > enough I immediately got fork problems (on 32bit only).  Since this
> > update the WoW64 DLLs get mapped below 0x7000:
> 
> …and on each reboot these end up somewhere else, sometimes even above
> 0x700 as intended.

It seems the Windows team raised the size of the ASLR pool on 32 bit, at
least on wow64.

> > In all likelyhood that means we can't really support 32bit on Windows 10
> > anymore unless there's a way to stabilize the addresses used by these
> > DLL and then teaching rebaselst to rebase from a lower starting point.
> 
> Or we will have to ask our users to reboot more often.  :-(

Sounds like a plan.

On Wow64 we have the upper 2 Gigs address space for us, but I vaguely
recall that there was a problem moving the DLLs into this area.  That's
why we only have heap and mmap there these days.  Maybe we should
reconsider...

But, then again, what's the lowest address for the wow64 DLLs you
observed?  And what about native 32 bit (no wow64 DLLs)?

We can't stabilize the address for the Windows DLLs, but we
can obviously adapt to it by changing rebase.


Corinna

-- 
Corinna Vinschen  Please, send mails regarding Cygwin to
Cygwin Maintainer cygwin AT cygwin DOT com
Red Hat


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Re: Windows10 Creators Update

2017-07-16 Thread Achim Gratz
Achim Gratz writes:
> I've finally got that update installed on my Windows10 box and sure
> enough I immediately got fork problems (on 32bit only).  Since this
> update the WoW64 DLLs get mapped below 0x7000:

…and on each reboot these end up somewhere else, sometimes even above
0x700 as intended.

> In all likelyhood that means we can't really support 32bit on Windows 10
> anymore unless there's a way to stabilize the addresses used by these
> DLL and then teaching rebaselst to rebase from a lower starting point.

Or we will have to ask our users to reboot more often.  :-(


Regards,
Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+

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