Re: Popups popping through windows using built-in rootless WM
--On 19 May 2005 17:35 +0200 Alexander Gottwald wrote: What programs are these? Is the problem reproducable with common windowing toolkits like KDE, GTK, Xt or Motif? Otherwise it will be hard to determine how to fix this. emacs (cygwin version running locally) has balloon help on the toolbar - this shows up through Firefox (Windows version) so the problem can be seen with a purely local set of applications that are commonly used. The popups appear with two Windows windows on top of the emacs window, but if a cygwin/X window is interposed (e.g. xterm) the emacs popups do not appear in the covered region. -- Owen Rees Hewlett Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK
Re: Popups popping through windows using built-in rootless WM
Nappi Chris-ra5809 wrote: Hello all, I have noticed that pop-up help balloons exhibit one or two problems (depending on the program) when using the built-in rootless WM: Some balloons to not go to the background when a Windows window is brought to the front. Other balloons actually come to the front when the mouse is over the object that creates them *through a Windows window*. I should note that the applications I am seeing this with are running on Solaris - I don't have any native Cygwin apps that have pop-up balloons. What programs are these? Is the problem reproducable with common windowing toolkits like KDE, GTK, Xt or Motif? Otherwise it will be hard to determine how to fix this. The programs I am using are Debussy (a silicon design tool which appears to be C/Motif?) and a proprietary Perl/TK program. Luckily I found that the balloon.pl demo for Tk located in: /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8/cygwin/Tk/demos/widtrib exhibits the problem. Launch that demo, look at where the Menu button button is, put IE(or whatever) in front and place the mouse over where the menu button is. You should get a popup saying Press and hold this button I verified this works when the balloon.pl script is run under Cygwin or Solaris. Thanks! Chris Nappi Just as a second example, I also get the popup balloons through native Windows applications running 'XWin -multiwindow' on Windows XP SP2 with the Cygwin build of Emacs - the mode line menu shows through. Sven Hammarling.
Re: Popups popping through windows using built-in rootless WM
--On 20 May 2005 09:43 +0100 Owen Rees wrote: The popups appear with two Windows windows on top of the emacs window, but if a cygwin/X window is interposed (e.g. xterm) the emacs popups do not appear in the covered region. I have just noticed that the popups appear even if the X window is minimized if you hover over the place where the toolbar will be if the window is restored. This effect occurs over the background as well as over whatever Windows windows may be open. -- Owen Rees Hewlett Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK
Re: Popups popping through windows using built-in rootless WM
On Fri, 20 May 2005, Owen Rees wrote: --On 20 May 2005 09:43 +0100 Owen Rees wrote: The popups appear with two Windows windows on top of the emacs window, but if a cygwin/X window is interposed (e.g. xterm) the emacs popups do not appear in the covered region. I have just noticed that the popups appear even if the X window is minimized if you hover over the place where the toolbar will be if the window is restored. This effect occurs over the background as well as over whatever Windows windows may be open. Hm. That is really a bug. Anyway, tooltips which appear on top of any other window are not a bug in my opinion. They appear topmost in windowed mode too. bye ago -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gotti.org ICQ: 126018723
Re: Popups popping through windows using built-in rootless WM
--On 20 May 2005 11:51 +0200 Alexander Gottwald wrote: Anyway, tooltips which appear on top of any other window are not a bug in my opinion. They appear topmost in windowed mode too. The issue as far as I am concerned is not that the tooltip display is on top but that it occurs when the button etc. that it is associated with is covered by another window. In other words, you get a tooltip for something you can't see. I think that ought to be considered a bug. -- Owen Rees Hewlett Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK
Re: Popups popping through windows using built-in rootless WM
On Fri, 20 May 2005, Owen Rees wrote: --On 20 May 2005 11:51 +0200 Alexander Gottwald wrote: Anyway, tooltips which appear on top of any other window are not a bug in my opinion. They appear topmost in windowed mode too. The issue as far as I am concerned is not that the tooltip display is on top but that it occurs when the button etc. that it is associated with is covered by another window. In other words, you get a tooltip for something you can't see. I think that ought to be considered a bug. Of cause. I thought it was a stacking issue. I'm not sure how a minimized window or a partly obscured window can notice mouse movement in that area. That's the main problem. Though there will never be a fix for cases like this: mouse is moved over sensitive area, timeout starts area is obscured by another window timout is reached, tooltip pops up although the pointer is now in the obscuring window This is a problem of the two worlds which can not be integrated smoothly. bye ago -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gotti.org ICQ: 126018723
RE: Popups popping through windows using built-in rootless WM
On Friday, May 20, 2005 10:51 AM, Alexander Gottwald wrote: Anyway, tooltips which appear on top of any other window are not a bug in my opinion. They appear topmost in windowed mode too. The problem is not that the popups appear on top. It is that the mouse position reports are passed to the obscured application window (even if its minimised). I *think* this is only a problem if there is another X window that is higher in the stacking order than the focussed non-X window. The second X window doesn't have to overlap the non-X window. I use the VirtuaWin virtual window manager which IIRC works by minimising the windows that are on the hidden desktops. This bug means that windows on hidden desktops pop up tooltips - very confusing! I think the problem is that X gets confused about the stacking order when X windows are mixed with non-X windows. This might be a hangover from the original rootless mode where all X windows were at the same stacking level as far as Windows was concerned (i.e. a non-X window could never sit between two X windows) A closely related issue which may throw light on the problem is that an X window on a hidden desktop displays in the client area of an X window on the active desktop if their screen coordinates overlap, and if the hidden window is logically higher in X's stacking order. To reproduce this, you'll need VirtuaWin, available from http://virtuawin.sourceforge.net The steps are: - Switch to Desk1 - Open an X application (call it X1) - Open a non-X window (call it W1) to at least partially obsure X1 (the key point is that X1 must not be on top) - Switch to Desk2 - Open an X application (call it X2) and position it so that it would overlap X1 if they were on the same desktop. - Open a non-X window (call it W2) to at least partially obsure X2 - Bring X2 to the front (thereby ensuring that it's above X1) - Bring W2 to the front and keep the pointer in part of W2 that is outside of both X1 and X2. (I think the main thing here is that neither X window should have, or get, the focus when the desktops are switched. I use the X-mouse tweak so the window under the mouse would be focussed) The logical stacking order is now (bottom to top): X1, W1, X2, W2 - now switch back to Desk1 The client area (but not the frame) of X2 that would overlap X1 if they were on the same desktop is displayed on top of X1. Note that the displayed part of X2 is actively drawn over the top of X1, as opposed to just being left behind. Also, moving the mouse over the widgets of X2 (e.g. the scrollbar) causes the cursor to change as if X2 was genuinely on top. Whilst the above seems an unlikely sequence of events, in practice it's very easy to get this happening, but it's not easy to predict. If you'd like me to test any fix before releasing it into the wild, I'll be glad to help after the weekend. Phil ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com **
Re: Popups popping through windows using built-in rootless WM
--On 20 May 2005 14:38 +0200 Alexander Gottwald wrote: I'm not sure how a minimized window or a partly obscured window can notice mouse movement in that area. That's the main problem. That made me realise that the obvious tool to investigate this is xev. MotionNotify events come through from the covered (or minimized) part of the event tester window, but at a much reduced rate compared to the exposed part. Normally the events go by very fast as you move the mouse, but they seem to be about half a second apart moving over the covered part. I am also seeing EnterNotify, KeymapNotify and LeaveNotify events when moving over the covered part of the event tester. (Button|Key)|(Press|Release) events are not occurring over the covered part or when minimized. The events sometimes do not happen. This seems to be related to the order in which various windows have focus and/or move in the stacking order and how the switch is done, but I have not found a repeatable way to stop the events. I am also getting VisibilityNotify and Expose events when other X windows are moved over where the event tester would be if it were not minimized. The non-X windows do not generate these events, nor do they generate the events when the event tester window is restored. -- Owen Rees Hewlett Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK
Popups popping through windows using built-in rootless WM
Hello all, I have noticed that pop-up help balloons exhibit one or two problems (depending on the program) when using the built-in rootless WM: Some balloons to not go to the background when a Windows window is brought to the front. Other balloons actually come to the front when the mouse is over the object that creates them *through a Windows window*. I should note that the applications I am seeing this with are running on Solaris - I don't have any native Cygwin apps that have pop-up balloons. Regards, Chris Nappi
Re: Popups popping through windows using built-in rootless WM
On Thu, 19 May 2005, Nappi Chris-ra5809 wrote: Hello all, I have noticed that pop-up help balloons exhibit one or two problems (depending on the program) when using the built-in rootless WM: Some balloons to not go to the background when a Windows window is brought to the front. Other balloons actually come to the front when the mouse is over the object that creates them *through a Windows window*. I should note that the applications I am seeing this with are running on Solaris - I don't have any native Cygwin apps that have pop-up balloons. What programs are these? Is the problem reproducable with common windowing toolkits like KDE, GTK, Xt or Motif? Otherwise it will be hard to determine how to fix this. bye ago -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gotti.org ICQ: 126018723
RE: Popups popping through windows using built-in rootless WM
Hello all, I have noticed that pop-up help balloons exhibit one or two problems (depending on the program) when using the built-in rootless WM: Some balloons to not go to the background when a Windows window is brought to the front. Other balloons actually come to the front when the mouse is over the object that creates them *through a Windows window*. I should note that the applications I am seeing this with are running on Solaris - I don't have any native Cygwin apps that have pop-up balloons. What programs are these? Is the problem reproducable with common windowing toolkits like KDE, GTK, Xt or Motif? Otherwise it will be hard to determine how to fix this. The programs I am using are Debussy (a silicon design tool which appears to be C/Motif?) and a proprietary Perl/TK program. Luckily I found that the balloon.pl demo for Tk located in: /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8/cygwin/Tk/demos/widtrib exhibits the problem. Launch that demo, look at where the Menu button button is, put IE(or whatever) in front and place the mouse over where the menu button is. You should get a popup saying Press and hold this button I verified this works when the balloon.pl script is run under Cygwin or Solaris. Thanks! Chris Nappi
RE: Popups popping through windows using built-in rootless WM
On Thu, 19 May 2005, Nappi Chris-ra5809 wrote: Luckily I found that the balloon.pl demo for Tk located in: /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8/cygwin/Tk/demos/widtrib exhibits the problem. That's good. So we can try to find a solution bye ago -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gotti.org ICQ: 126018723
