Re: Welcome to Anarchast

[jim bell]

 From: Jason McVetta 

   
On Jul 14, 2017 11:53, "jim bell"  wrote:


I've long believed that people should stop using the term "capitalism" when 
they probably mean, "free market".  "capitalism" might be the 1800 equivalent 
of "crowdfunding". 


>I agree people should use the word "capitalism" more sparingly.  However it's 
>not because most people mean "free market" when they use the term. 
>Rather it's because some people mean "free market", whatever that means.  Some 
>mean "the dominance of economy and society by mechanistic usury".  Some mean 
>"democracy", whatever that means.  Some mean "American style police state 
>tyranny".  And some mean "the actually-existing socioeconomic system in 
>America today". 
>The profusion of definitions in use, and the sometimes fuzzy boundaries 
>between them, make the word "capitalism" not very useful for communication 
>without a lot of context. 
I agree with all of that.  This amounts to a vague mish-mash of meanings, where 
the meanings themselves can be gravely in error.  Yes, some people refer to the 
American system as "free market", which I think is laughably inaccurate!  If 
anything, I think the reason that governments support Riseup (sorta behind the 
scenes) is actually to keep true "free markets" at bay.  I have long believed 
that we would be much better off with a true, anarchistic free market (which 
some call "anarcho-capitalism")  with what we currently call "government" 
dissolved.
          Jim Bell

   

Re: Welcome to Anarchast

[Jason McVetta]

On Jul 14, 2017 11:53, "jim bell"  wrote:


I've long believed that people should stop using the term "capitalism" when
they probably mean, "free market".  "capitalism" might be the 1800
equivalent of "crowdfunding".


I agree people should use the word "capitalism" more sparingly.  However
it's not because most people mean "free market" when they use the term.

Rather it's because *some* people mean "free market", whatever *that*
means.  Some mean "the dominance of economy and society by mechanistic
usury".  Some mean "democracy", whatever *that* means.  Some mean "American
style police state tyranny".  And some mean "the actually-existing
socioeconomic system in America today".

The profusion of definitions in use, and the sometimes fuzzy boundaries
between them, make the word "capitalism" not very useful for communication
without a lot of context.

Re: Welcome to Anarchast

[jim bell]

 From: Rachael 
   
>All this talk of Riseup being anti-capitalist and people being selective
>about their invites is rather amusing.


I've long believed that people should stop using the term "capitalism" when 
they probably mean, "free market".  "capitalism" might be the 1800 equivalent 
of "crowdfunding".  But I think the issue is rarely from where the capital 
comes, but instead the freedom of participants in the market to act once the 
businesses begin operation.        Jim Bell

>Link to documentation (use search term "riseup")
>http://piratetimes.net/wp-uploads/news/2015/02/Q1-DDP-2014.pdf




   

Re: Welcome to Anarchast

[Rachael]

All this talk of Riseup being anti-capitalist and people being selective
about their invites is rather amusing.

Maybe people on this listserve are not aware that Riseup.net (along with
LEAP) are listed as receiving over $250,000 USD from government funding.
And that was only the funding which could be confirmed. The few public
records I did receive are full of heavy redactions. Netherlands and
Sweden still have classified documents, but refuse to release them.
Along with some European governments, the US Department of State was
also involved in this funding mechanism.

I would really like Riseup.net to publicly say whether or not Riseup.net
still receives government funding or support. Hopefully, Riseup.net will
publicly disclose the funding it has received.

Link to documentation (use search term "riseup")
http://piratetimes.net/wp-uploads/news/2015/02/Q1-DDP-2014.pdf

Re: [WAR] Trump negotiates contract with Russia for "10,000 beautiful MiG-35s" to replace F-35 boondoggle

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 03:41:34PM +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/kgb-sends-trump-his-first-directive-axe-f-35-buy-russias-mig-35-instead/ri18731
> 
> Donald "Donat Ivanovich Trollstoyevski" Trumpenfuhrer begins the
> inevitable naval vtol gazing.
> 
> KGB is proudski.

On a just-slightly more factual basis, Germany & France are
now ditching the F-35 "world's largest pork barrell ever":

Germany & France to develop ‘new generation’ European
fighter jet to replace existing fleets
https://www.rt.com/news/396263-france-germany-fighter-jets/

[ PFSR ] Prosecutor Agrees to Drop Sexting Charges Against Iowa Teen

[Zenaan Harkness]

The relentless bullying by the state is quite impressive - madness
prevails regardless of morals, ethics, common sense.

These cases where the force and power of the state is brought against
an under aged teen doing what teens do and attempting to drag them
through the "criminal" "justice" system, is astounding, and the lack
of empathy, lack of common sense, and lack of anything resembling
a moral attitude towards the younger generation, leads me to believe
that there are those in power in our "modern" "democracies" who are
fundamentally compromised within their own behaviour, conducting
themselves in ways that they find themselves to be morally
reprehensible, and that they project upon others, including
incredibly upon children and teenagers, the evils that are in their
own hearts and deeds.

Top this off with wide and pervasive cowardice within the general
population and the following fight-back event is an extremely rare
sight in this day and age.

Prosecutors, police, lawyers, judges and politicians (those who
conduct yourselves in evil): continue to project your own evil upon
children and teenagers at your peril - we will come after you, and
your endless attempts to hide your crimes shall be uncovered and
exposed!



Would be nice to see the parents below preemptively/ proactively
pursue this case regardless, to help the next child targetted by
the next self-projecting moron wielding the power of the state in
such an insane way.




Subject: [ PFER ] Prosecutor Agrees to Drop Sexting Charges Against Iowa Teen

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/iowa/articles/2017-07-13/prosecutor-agrees-to-drop-sexting-charges-against-iowa-teen

A county prosecutor in Iowa who threatened to charge a
14-year-old girl with sexual exploitation of a minor after she
sent suggestive photos of herself to a boy at school agreed
Thursday to drop the case after the girl's family sued him for
violating her constitutional rights to free speech and equal
protection.

- End forwarded message -

Re: Donald Trump: a perfect representative for modern America & a so-called Sharing Economy

[Zenaan Harkness]

> > On Jul 13, 2017, at 1:42 PM, Razer  wrote:





On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 01:43:58PM -0400, Joshua Case wrote:
> Fake news.

Re: Fwd: Re: Donald Trump: a perfect representative for modern America & a so-called Sharing Economy

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 10:42:15AM -0700, Razer wrote:
> On 07/13/2017 10:33 AM, Joshua Case wrote:
> >> Ps. I just received an email at this address from a "Mark M"
> >>  requesting an invite for a riseup account,
> >> because Riseup is no longer accepting applications due to mass abuse by
> >> lying about the purpose for the account, which is supposed to be social
> >> activism related.
> >>
> >>
> >> Mark M claims he needs the account b/c:
> >>
> >>> I need an invite code for getting a riseup account I am a bit coin and
> >>> monero contributor
> >> No. Mark. Just no.
> >>
> >> You probably think creating another mythical currency is actually social
> >> activism. You are deluding yourself.
> >>
> >> Rr
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Seems fake. Nobody emailed you. 
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck you and your "/Nobody emailed you/".
> 
> Email source:

Rayzer once again demonstrates his enthusiasm for leaping into
"system shock testing of Razer" profiling of Razer.

Lulz dude, lulz!

Seriously, it's hilarious to watch someone leap in so reactively -
just like the FNN. (Although I would never dare to suggest anyone but
you make the choice about which gasses and burnt particulates you put
into your own lungs, I have concerns that regular and long term
cannabinoid ingestion leads to a disappointing reduction in self
awareness.)

Good luck,

Re: Donald Trump: a perfect representative for modern America & a so-called Sharing Economy

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 09:48:10AM -0700, Razer wrote:
> 
> A disruptor-in-chief in a society where disruptors prosper.
> 
> > Republican lobbyist Bruce Mehlman, who has long represented technology
> > companies, sees parallels between the cycle of disruption that’s
> > churned through Silicon Valley and what’s now wreaking havoc on
> > Washington.
> >
> > “The forces that set the stage for Donald Trump’s election are
> > long-term, structural and global,” Mehlman told me yesterday. “Much
> > like Uber, Trump perceived the opportunity to reach directly to the
> > public to disrupt a dysfunctional marketplace that lacked innovation
> > and failed to satisfy consumers.

That's a useful way to view "democratic" governments: a marketplace
of arbitrary power wielders, dysfunctionally targetting their
consumers (voters).

What's the ultimate consumer authority? The power of their wallet -
do not put money to evil, or you can be argued to not only be tacitly
consenting, but actively consenting. Witholding income tax as civil
disobedience anyone? (Oh, but scary lawyers and courts and my shiny
stuff!)

Re: Welcome To Anarchast!

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 08:40:01AM -0700, Kurt Buff wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 8:31 AM, \0xDynamite  
> wrote:
> > On 7/11/17, Steve Kinney  wrote:
> >> "Capitalism can not exist without armed State authorities to define and
> >> enforce the so-called rights of absentee landlords.  Anarcho-capitalism
> >> is a contradiction in terms, just a super fashionable name for direct
> >> rule by gangs of billionaires who get to do literally anything they want."
> >>
> >> The only reason to add the prefix an- or anarcho- to the name of a 19th
> >> century political theory or ideology is to make it sound hip and
> >> fashionable.
> >
> > No, that is not true.  Capitalism, as an economic method, is devoid of
> > power absent that given strictly by "law of supply and demand".  The
> > current capitalism you see today is a result of conquest and
> > usurptation of massive amounts of unearned labor in the form of fossil
> > fuel and nuclear energy.
> >
> > Marxos
> 
> More accurately, what we have today isn't capitalism but corporatism.
> 
> Someone who had a glimmer of a clue once said something along the
> lines of: "Capitalism follows the logic of the cancer cell".
> 
> That's not accurate, but it's close. Corporatism is the proper target
> - eliminate the laws and practices that enable corporations, and
> especially those that shield them (and their owners) from liability
> and responsibility, and we'd be much better off.

Nicely said!

Arbitrary power. This is the underlying principle of many statute
laws - arbitrary power, whether it's corporations, copyrights and
patents, police immunity and a zillion (precise number) other evils.

And indeed, as Marxos said, most "lazy arse Whites" are too well fed
and enjoying their shiny things to ever stand up in any "court of
law" to proclaim an injustice.

And yet in a heartbeat they do proclaim "the rule of law" and
"democratic principles".

Crucifixion: CFR's Max Boot self immolates in front of Tucker Carlson [RUS]

[Zenaan Harkness]

One wonders what non-logic drives a neo-con these days?

"Winning" by self-crucifixion? Death by moral outrage? Religious
opposition to reasoned debate and factual answers?

It is hard to conceive of the depth of insanity that the USA's deep
state swamp is and was (except oh, I dunno, looking at the continuous
wars and "surgical murders", wedding dronings and moral "high ground"
paraded around the world since forever), but here it is, week after
week, sometimes night after night, as prime time - prime time
entertainment that is :smiley:

The Council on Foreign Rrelations' Max Boot does an astounding job of
delivering some delicious prime time entertainment on this attempt by
Mr Boot to deliver his metaphorical boot to Tucker Carlson, which of
course did not happen.

Guess that's because neo-cons are so logical, truly moral, balanced
and caring individuals. Or something...

The level of winning here is so intense, it's not only hard to
believe but begins to be hard to watch - such self immolation:

Duran:
http://theduran.com/tucker-carlson-destroys-neocon-warmonger-max-boot-over-syria-iran-and-russian-policy-video/

YT direct:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HjVipLZYns

DailyStormer:
https://bbs.dailystormer.com/t/crucifixion-cfrs-max-boot-self-immolates-in-front-of-tucker-carlson/120500

Just amazing entertainment.

Re: Donald Trump: a perfect representative for modern America & a so-called Sharing Economy

[Cecilia Tanaka]

On Jul 13, 2017 9:52 PM, "juan"  wrote:


right - "rise up" is a pentagon operation targeted at left wing
'progressive' fascists.

but they can spy on a fucktard like marxos too so I'm not
sure why you wouldn't 'invite' him


Mark M is _not_ Marxos (Mark   \0xDynamite).  Different guys, dear.

Re: Donald Trump: a perfect representative for modern America & a so-called Sharing Economy

[juan]

> On Jul 13, 2017 7:01 PM, "g2s"  wrote:
> 
> 
> Rise up does not rep for capitalism and btc et al are capitalist tools


right - "rise up" is a pentagon operation targeted at left wing
'progressive' fascists. 

but they can spy on a fucktard like marxos too so I'm not
sure why you wouldn't 'invite' him






> Afaict its basically a casino looking for marketing legitimization.
> 
> 
> You're in a bad mood, dear.  Try to smile a bit.  :)
> 
> http://9gag.com/gag/aq15y7Y

Re: Donald Trump: a perfect representative for modern America & a so-called Sharing Economy

[Razer]

On 07/13/2017 10:43 AM, Joshua Case wrote something really really stupid:
> Fake news. 

I suppose you think I wasted time forging a whole header...

Troll.

Rr

Re: Fwd: Re: Donald Trump: a perfect representative for modern America & a so-called Sharing Economy

[Cecilia Tanaka]

On Jul 13, 2017 7:01 PM, "g2s"  wrote:


Rise up does not rep for capitalism and btc et al are capitalist tools
Afaict its basically a casino looking for marketing legitimization.


You're in a bad mood, dear.  Try to smile a bit.  :)

http://9gag.com/gag/aq15y7Y

Re: Fwd: Re: Donald Trump: a perfect representative for modern America & a so-called Sharing Economy

[James Bunnell]

Cecilia Tanaka:
> Joshua, my dear,
> 
> Razer is telling the truth.  Mark M   >  exists and is also a member of the
> Cryptography discussion list.  Already posted about cryptocurrencies there.
> 
> Like Razer, I don't give my riseup invites to new accounts to unknown
> and/or untrustful people.  I need to respect and honor the trust that
> riseup gave me years ago and protect it, keep it working well.
> 
> Tender kisses, take care.
> 
> Ceci
> 
it seems there are other options if he did his research :)

Re: Fwd: Re: Donald Trump: a perfect representative for modern America & a so-called Sharing Economy

[g2s]

 Original message From: Cecilia Tanaka 
 Date: 7/13/17  11:00 AM  (GMT-08:00) To: CypherPunks 
 Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Donald Trump: a perfect 
representative for modern America & a so-called Sharing Economy 
Joshua, my dear,
Razer is telling the truth.  Mark M    exists and is 
also a member of the Cryptography discussion list.  Already posted about 
cryptocurrencies there.
Like Razer, I don't give my riseup invites to new accounts to unknown and/or 
untrustful people.  I need to respect and honor the trust that riseup gave me 
years ago and protect it, keep it working well.
Tender kisses, take care.
Ceci
Rise up does not rep for capitalism and btc et al are capitalist tools Afaict 
its basically a casino looking for marketing legitimization.
Rr

Re: Fwd: Re: Donald Trump: a perfect representative for modern America & a so-called Sharing Economy

[Cecilia Tanaka]

Joshua, my dear,

Razer is telling the truth.  Mark M    exists and is
also a member of the Cryptography discussion list.  Already posted about
cryptocurrencies there.

Like Razer, I don't give my riseup invites to new accounts to unknown
and/or untrustful people.  I need to respect and honor the trust that
riseup gave me years ago and protect it, keep it working well.

Tender kisses, take care.

Ceci

Re: Donald Trump: a perfect representative for modern America & a so-called Sharing Economy

[Joshua Case]

> On Jul 13, 2017, at 1:42 PM, Razer  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 07/13/2017 10:33 AM, Joshua Case wrote:
>>> Ps. I just received an email at this address from a "Mark M"
>>>   requesting an invite 
>>> for a riseup account,
>>> because Riseup is no longer accepting applications due to mass abuse by
>>> lying about the purpose for the account, which is supposed to be social
>>> activism related.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Mark M claims he needs the account b/c:
>>> 
 I need an invite code for getting a riseup account I am a bit coin and
 monero contributor
>>> No. Mark. Just no.
>>> 
>>> You probably think creating another mythical currency is actually social
>>> activism. You are deluding yourself.
>>> 
>>> Rr
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> Seems fake. Nobody emailed you. 
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck you and your "Nobody emailed you".
> 
> Email source:
> 
> Note: Down in the gibberish
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> Someone's collecting invites too.
> 
> Rr
> 
> 
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> Thread-Topic: RaZer
> Thread-Index: 

Fwd: Re: Donald Trump: a perfect representative for modern America & a so-called Sharing Economy

[Razer]

On 07/13/2017 10:33 AM, Joshua Case wrote:
>> Ps. I just received an email at this address from a "Mark M"
>>  requesting an invite for a riseup account,
>> because Riseup is no longer accepting applications due to mass abuse by
>> lying about the purpose for the account, which is supposed to be social
>> activism related.
>>
>>
>> Mark M claims he needs the account b/c:
>>
>>> I need an invite code for getting a riseup account I am a bit coin and
>>> monero contributor
>> No. Mark. Just no.
>>
>> You probably think creating another mythical currency is actually social
>> activism. You are deluding yourself.
>>
>> Rr
>>
>>
>>
>
> Seems fake. Nobody emailed you. 



Fuck you and your "/Nobody emailed you/".

Email source:

Note: Down in the gibberish
>
>
> 
>
>

Someone's collecting invites too.

Rr


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I need an invite code for getting a 

Donald Trump: a perfect representative for modern America & a so-called Sharing Economy

[Razer]

A disruptor-in-chief in a society where disruptors prosper.

> Republican lobbyist Bruce Mehlman, who has long represented technology
> companies, sees parallels between the cycle of disruption that’s
> churned through Silicon Valley and what’s now wreaking havoc on
> Washington.
>
> “The forces that set the stage for Donald Trump’s election are
> long-term, structural and global,” Mehlman told me yesterday. “Much
> like Uber, Trump perceived the opportunity to reach directly to the
> public to disrupt a dysfunctional marketplace that lacked innovation
> and failed to satisfy consumers. Also much like Uber, he flouted
> conventions and tested the limits of traditional rules, fighting the
> entrenched establishment while seeking its acceptance … Disruption is
> hard and, well, disruptive. It usually leaves observers feeling
> exhausted, uncertain and ultimately either angry or exhilarated.”
>
> In a new PowerPoint presentation for his clients, Mehlman notes that
> voters sought change in five of the past six elections. Exit polls
> last November showed that a candidate’s ability to “bring change”
> mattered far more to voters than whether they had the “right
> experience” or “good judgment.”
>
> -- How did we get here? Mehlman diagnoses seven long-term trends that
> are both symptomatic of and drivers of disruption:


In full with links, including the aforementioned PowerPoint:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2017/07/13/daily-202-trump-is-the-disrupter-in-chief-in-an-age-of-disruption/5966a386e9b69b7071abcb23/


Ps. I just received an email at this address from a "Mark M"
 requesting an invite for a riseup account,
because Riseup is no longer accepting applications due to mass abuse by
lying about the purpose for the account, which is supposed to be social
activism related.


Mark M claims he needs the account b/c:

> I need an invite code for getting a riseup account I am a bit coin and
> monero contributor

No. Mark. Just no.

You probably think creating another mythical currency is actually social
activism. You are deluding yourself.

Rr

Re: Welcome To Anarchast!

[\0xDynamite]

>> No, that is not true.  Capitalism, as an economic method, is devoid of
>> power absent that given strictly by "law of supply and demand".  The
>> current capitalism you see today is a result of conquest and
>> usurptation of massive amounts of unearned labor in the form of fossil
>> fuel and nuclear energy.
>
> More accurately, what we have today isn't capitalism but corporatism.

More accurately, yes.

> Someone who had a glimmer of a clue once said something along the
> lines of: "Capitalism follows the logic of the cancer cell".

Exactly:  growth for no purpose but MORE growth.

>  Corporatism is the proper target
> - eliminate the laws and practices that enable corporations, and
> especially those that shield them (and their owners) from liability
> and responsibility, and we'd be much better off.

Careful.  Who funds the operations of corporations?  The fact is that
the American people are a bunch of freetards who have never taken
control of thier own government beyond checking a box ONCE every FOUR
YEARS.

Marxos

Re: Welcome To Anarchast!

[Kurt Buff]

On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 8:31 AM, \0xDynamite  wrote:
> On 7/11/17, Steve Kinney  wrote:
>> "Capitalism can not exist without armed State authorities to define and
>> enforce the so-called rights of absentee landlords.  Anarcho-capitalism
>> is a contradiction in terms, just a super fashionable name for direct
>> rule by gangs of billionaires who get to do literally anything they want."
>>
>> The only reason to add the prefix an- or anarcho- to the name of a 19th
>> century political theory or ideology is to make it sound hip and
>> fashionable.
>
> No, that is not true.  Capitalism, as an economic method, is devoid of
> power absent that given strictly by "law of supply and demand".  The
> current capitalism you see today is a result of conquest and
> usurptation of massive amounts of unearned labor in the form of fossil
> fuel and nuclear energy.
>
> Marxos

More accurately, what we have today isn't capitalism but corporatism.

Someone who had a glimmer of a clue once said something along the
lines of: "Capitalism follows the logic of the cancer cell".

That's not accurate, but it's close. Corporatism is the proper target
- eliminate the laws and practices that enable corporations, and
especially those that shield them (and their owners) from liability
and responsibility, and we'd be much better off.

Kurt

Re: Welcome To Anarchast!

[\0xDynamite]

 > Well yeah...  "Liberty" meant rich people thumbing their noses at the
> Crown that made them rich by setting them up in business with land
> grants, slaves, legal institutions and some amount of military protection.
>
> For the peasant class, "Liberty" was a false promise of equal rights
> before the law and the belief that everybody would get rich quick once
> the Crown stopped taxing the Colonies.

This is a pretty cynical view of the founders, who while they may have
been aristocratic in some mundane sense (having money), they were also
simply knowledgeable enough and enlightened that they wanted to defend
their rights as equals rather than suck dick for some imagined divine
rights given to kings.

> Today, "Liberty" can have as many meanings as their are market segments
> under the Right Wing umbrella, but all these meaning have one thing in
> common:  Direct rule by our billionaires.

No, while a fashionable position of those who smoke dope.  There is
only indirect rule by billionaires and lazy ass liberals who aren't
willing to take their disagreements with the police state to court.

marxos

Re: Welcome To Anarchast!

[Steve Kinney]

On 07/12/2017 09:27 PM, juan wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Jul 2017 17:21:33 -0700
> Razer  wrote:
> 
>>
>>
>> On 07/12/2017 03:18 PM, juan wrote:
>>
>>> That may be one of the meanings, but it seems kinda obvious
>>> that overall, 'liberal' comes from 'liberty'.
>>
>>
>> Liberty, as the US "Founders" understood it, meant the liberty to own
>> property, including humans.
>>
>> Just sayin'.
> 
> 
>   the founding fuckers knew pretty well what liberty meant,
>   becuase they knew what SLAVERY meant. It's kinda obvious
>   that anybody who has the concept of slavery also 'understands'
>   freedom. 
> 
>   So the founding fuckers babbled about liberty (which they
>   understood perfectly well) while being slave owning psychos.
> 
>   They just created an orwellian tyranny 200 years before orwell.
>   Got to give them credit for that. 

Well yeah...  "Liberty" meant rich people thumbing their noses at the
Crown that made them rich by setting them up in business with land
grants, slaves, legal institutions and some amount of military protection.

For the peasant class, "Liberty" was a false promise of equal rights
before the law and the belief that everybody would get rich quick once
the Crown stopped taxing the Colonies.

Today, "Liberty" can have as many meanings as their are market segments
under the Right Wing umbrella, but all these meaning have one thing in
common:  Direct rule by our billionaires.






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