Re: This is the Opportunity-cost of NOT implementing my AP idea

[Shawn K. Quinn]

On 1/13/20 10:41, Razer wrote:
> On 1/13/20 1:12 AM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
>> When was the change made to only allow subscribers to post?
> 
> WTF kind of listserv allows posts from non-subscribers? Never heard of
> any such thing, and the only reason I can see for that arrangment is to
> destroy the usability of a list and clog it's servers with spam instead
> of posts on the topic(s) relevant to the list.

Previous incarnations of the cypherpunks list did allow non-subscribers
to post, particularly anonymous remailers.

As far as "destroy[ing] the usability of a list and clog[ging] its
servers with [off-topic or irrelevant posts]", that's orthogonal to
whether or not subscribers can post though it does raise the bar ever so
slightly. I'm still trying to figure out why generic posts about
politics, particularly those that highlight race, religion/national
origin, or beliefs of certain people more so than the actual issue, have
to do with the nominal topic of what I'd expect a cypherpunks list to be.

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn 
http://www.rantroulette.com
http://www.skqrecordquest.com

Re: The Hill: Will alleged CIA misbehavior set Julian Assange free? | TheHill

[Ryan Carboni]

On Mon Jan 13 20:13:16, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
>As he faces a multi-day extradition hearing in a few days,
>for extradition TO THE USA !
>
>What the hell are you smoking?#?!!

As I implied in my third paragraph, the people who make up secret
police forces (or more simply political plainsclothes detectives) are
unscrupulous individuals who act in the name of their organization,
and use the most pained justifications for their actions.

So, based on sane legal reasoning, Assange shouldn't be extradited.

To carry out a policy within the legal frameworks available, it would
make more sense to either invade the Equadorian embassy or get the
British to evict Assange before the statute of limitations ran out.

Although through the grim logic of power, it would be more effective
to deny there ever was an indictment against Assange and call him a
crazy white haired fool.

Facial recognition

[jim bell]

How the police use facial recognition, and where it falls short
https://news.yahoo.com/police-facial-recognition-where-falls-200912426.html

Re: The Hill: Will alleged CIA misbehavior set Julian Assange free? | TheHill

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 04:04:10AM +, Ryan Carboni wrote:
> There is no evidence that the Gestapo, Stasi, or Kenpeitai were unique
> phenomena to each country, nor is there any evidence to avoid similar
> recurrences.
> 
> Regardless, Julian Assange is unlikely a fugitive as the US government
> publicly denied pursuing charges against him.


As he faces a multi-day extradition hearing in a few days,
for extradition TO THE USA !

What the hell are you smoking?#?!!

Re: The Hill: Will alleged CIA misbehavior set Julian Assange free? | TheHill

[Ryan Carboni]

There is no evidence that the Gestapo, Stasi, or Kenpeitai were unique
phenomena to each country, nor is there any evidence to avoid similar
recurrences.

Regardless, Julian Assange is unlikely a fugitive as the US government
publicly denied pursuing charges against him.

But if you read the US constitution closely enough, it could justify anything.

Re: The flip side of UBI/ Universal Basic Income - beware what you ask for - [MONEY]

[Zenaan Harkness]

Exhibit #1 :


  As Trump Threatens Tehran Over Censorship, Facebook's
  Thought-Police Censor Pro-Iran Posts
  
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/trump-threatens-tehran-over-censorship-facebooks-thought-police-censor-pro-iran-posts
  
https://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/while-trump-warns-tehran-of-censorship-facebooks-thought-police-censor-pro-iran-tweets_01132020

The hypocrisy is unbelievable.  In order to comply with United
States sanctions on Iran, Facebook’s thought police have taken to
censorship on behalf of the government.  At the same time,
President Donald Trump warns Iran not to use censorship.

...

  “These massive Big Tech corporations are Thought Police for the
  US government: Facebook and Instagram are removing posts
  expressing support for Iran’s top general Soleimani,”
  journalist Ben Norton tweeted. “They say it’s to comply with US
  sanctions, but how do posts violate sanctions? –RT
  https://www.rt.com/news/478044-instagram-iran-trump-censorship/

...




- Forwarded message from Zenaan Harkness  -

From: Zenaan Harkness 
To: cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 21:46:06 +1100
Subject: The flip side of UBI/ Universal Basic Income - beware what you ask
 for - [MONEY]

UBI, what could possibly go wrong?

IOW, be (very) careful what you ask for ...


  Universal Basic Income: A Dream Come True For Despots
  
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/universal-basic-income-dream-come-true-despots

...
“What do you think the potential disadvantages of the basic
income would be, then?”

[My neighbour] replies, “There aren’t any.”

Trade-Offs Are Inescapable
...
But the universal basic income seems unaffected. It’s going to
cure poverty, eliminate stress, reduce crime, unleash
entrepreneurship, emancipate women, save us from AI, and fight
climate change. I’m not not exaggerating. I googled, and there
are multiple articles claiming that, not only will the UBI save
the economy from flatlining due to a lack of consumer demand by
increasing consumption, but somehow also put a halt to global
warming as well — contradictory as these two aims may seem.

...
Trusting the World's Regimes to Do Good?

Most people agree that politics is a dirty game and that
political powers will inevitably be used to further the agenda of
officeholders and their cronies. That said, despite being
immersed in the current thinking regarding UBI for three years
now, I have seen precious little worrying as to what the
government — or a future government — might actually do once it
has seized control over everyone’s purse strings.

After all, these governments are composed of the same people who
launched a permanent war in the Middle East, wasting trillions of
dollars on destroying millions of lives. These governments bailed
out the banks from the public purse and gave themselves raises
after telling the rest of the nation we had to tighten our belts.
They have robbed the young of the opportunity to own a home by
sending house prices through the roof and mean to leave them a
nation in ruinous debt. They continue locking away huge numbers
of people for decades for victimless crimes, leaving their
children to be raised single-handed. They created an oligopoly of
higher education provision forcing generations into student debt
that cannot be defaulted on, and healthcare systems that are so
restrictive that people must pay inordinate sums to get care or
are otherwise forced onto government waiting lists so long that
many of their conditions are chronic or untreatable before they
are seen to.

Am I the only one who thinks these powers may be used for evil
rather than good?

China’s “Credit System”

One such cautionary tale may be found in China.
...

[ -- money quote --- ]
Now a basic income guarantee may begin universal, but as the
years wear on and it proves expensive to provide, it might be
that corners have to be cut in order to ensure its continued
fungibility. Hardly anyone will object to the UBI being withdrawn
from criminals, for example. And then perhaps for antisocial
behaviour. People may have their universal basic income docked
for committing petty crimes like littering the street. A few
might moan that this is the beginning of a government social
engineering program, but to most people this will seem like a
quite a sensible and reasonable measure. After all, we all
“benefit” from the benevolence of society providing our roads and
schools, and now our basic income. So if some choose to repay
society in disrespect, with such vulgar behaviour as littering,
throwing away the ends of cigarettes, spitting on the street,
failing to remove their dog foul, or what have you, why should

Fertile Huwaite women in massive shortage - solution: infiniggimmigration - [PEACE]

[Zigga da Bigga Trigga N.gga]

But of course, an obvious solution to the glaring problem of Western
demographic decline - infiniggimmigration and White genocide, oh
happy days!

  Global Births & Population Of Potential Mothers... Down, Down, Down
  
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/global-births-population-potential-mothers-down-down-down
  https://econimica.blogspot.com/



And on the bright side of the white side of history:
less Whities = more gibs per white-ass gritty

:D

Re: Russia breached FBI

[Zigga da Bigga Trigga N.gga]

tl;dr on Russian vs Democrat hacking:

  How to spot Russian hacking emails:

  - Russian hacking emails bear the name "Fancy Bear", and will be
reported by the Jew York Times as being "Russian hackers".

  - Democrat hacking emails bear the names Falko or Douche,
and have made significant donations to the Democ-rats.


Zerowedgie with the details:

  Here Comes Wikigate 2: NYT Claims Russian Hackers Successfully
  "Breached" Burisma
  
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/here-comes-wikigate-2-nyt-claims-russian-hackers-successfully-breached-burisma


Glad we cleared -that- one up :D



On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 04:38:20PM -0400, John Young wrote:
> Rolf Mowatt-Larssen, former head of counterintelligence at the Department of
> Energy and a former CIA officer who first served in Moscow in the 1980s. "The
> Russians do everything in the U.S. that we did in Moscow."
> 
> 
> At 04:31 PM 9/16/2019, you wrote:
> 
> > Exclusive: Russia breached top-secret FBI communications system
> > https://news.yahoo.com/exclusive-russia-carried-out-a-stunning-breach-of-fbi-communications-system-escalating-the-spy-game-on-us-soil-090024212.html
> 
> 

The Hill: Will alleged CIA misbehavior set Julian Assange free? | TheHill

[jim bell]

The Hill: Will alleged CIA misbehavior set Julian Assange free? | TheHill.
https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/477939-will-cia-misbehavior-set-julian-assange-free

Phys.org: Isotopically enriched cubic boron nitride reveals high thermal conductivity

[jim bell]

Phys.org: Isotopically enriched cubic boron nitride reveals high thermal 
conductivity.
https://phys.org/news/2020-01-isotopically-enriched-cubic-boron-nitride.html
I thought of this invention in 2009.
          Jim Bell

Re: Only one possible solution

[Razer]

Some Stupid Fascist Fuck wrote:
> I represent the interests of a variety of people who are productive, are in 
> favor of continuing to be productive, 


Fuck your pin factory, Smith.

It's obvious from the moronic 'content' of your 'posts' you and your
non-existent friends' "productivity" isn't relevant to anything anyone
should give fux for.

Rr




signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Power Line: We now know: FISA court must go

[jim bell]

Power Line: We now know: FISA court must go.
http://feeds.powerlineblog.com/~r/powerlineblog/livefeed/~3/iXMDYuP5Bmk/we-now-know-fisa-court-must-go.php

The Boston Globe: MIT’s Inconvenient Truth

[jim bell]

The Boston Globe: MIT’s Inconvenient Truth.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/01/12/opinion/mits-inconvenient-truth/

[cha...@e.change.org: Videos: Free Julian Tour, Interview of John Shipton (Julian's dad) + Extradition Hearing Update]

[Zenaan Harkness]

- Forwarded message from "Phillip Adams via Change.org" 
 -

From: "Phillip Adams via Change.org" 
Reply-To: "Change.org" 
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 22:39:53 +
Subject: Videos: Free Julian Tour, Interview of John Shipton (Julian's dad) +
 Extradition Hearing Update
List-Id: 


Phillip Adams shared an update on Free Julian Assange, before it's too 
late. Sign to STOP the USA Extradition

Check it out and leave a comment:

Petition Update

Videos: Free Julian Tour, Interview of John Shipton (Julian's dad) + 
Extradition Hearing Update
Hi All, There are 2 parts to this update. Pre trial extradition hearing update 
+ The first episode of a 3 part video series of our recent Free Julian Assange 
tour in North East NSW Australia. Mullumbimby, Brisbane   Nimbin. 
Featuring John Shipton (Julian Assange's father) in Full House public hall 
Interviews and answering questions from the public.  Regarding the pre trial 
Extradition...
https://click.e.change.org/f/a/S_ilIGQzyQcW5yekLAaaTg~~/AANj1QA~/RgRf_3a5P4QnAWh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmNoYW5nZS5vcmcvcC9mcmVlLWp1bGlhbi1hc3NhbmdlLWJlZm9yZS1pdC1zLXRvby1sYXRlLXN0b3AtdXNhLWV4dHJhZGl0aW9uL3UvMjU1OTM4MzI_Y3NfdGs9QXR0VGNUemRCRDhGT1RubUlGNEFBWGljeXl2TnlRRUFCRjhCdkpybWNfaEpHU1lHaVpkU29zek9mOTQlM0QmdXRtX2NhbXBhaWduPTMyOTg4ZGEzOTMyMjRmM2ViZGI4NDM4Njg3OTg5ODkxJnV0bV9jb250ZW50PWluaXRpYWxfdjBfMl8wJnV0bV9tZWRpdW09ZW1haWwmdXRtX3NvdXJjZT1wZXRpdGlvbl91cGRhdGUmdXRtX3Rlcm09Y3NXA3NwY0IKAC678RxeKBlBhFIeemVuYWFuLmNoYW5nZS5vcmdAZnJlZWRibXMubmV0WAQC


Change.org is proudly funded by people like you, Zenaan.

As a public benefit company, we rely on the generosity of ordinary people — 
rather than government funding or annoying ads. Each contribution we receive 
means our small team can help petition starters win their campaigns. We 
believe in the voice of the people — that’s why we built a platform 
that is a 100% independent and available for everyone to create the change they 
want to see.

https://click.e.change.org/f/a/6BNAXMnsAWE2o_WOA0HzEA~~/AANj1QA~/RgRf_3a5P0TjaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuY2hhbmdlLm9yZy9tZW1iZXI_Y3NfdGs9QXR0VGNUemRCRDhGT1RubUlGNEFBWGljeXl2TnlRRUFCRjhCdkpybWNfaEpHU1lHaVpkU29zek9mOTQlM0QmdXRtX2NhbXBhaWduPTMyOTg4ZGEzOTMyMjRmM2ViZGI4NDM4Njg3OTg5ODkxJnV0bV9jb250ZW50PWluaXRpYWxfdjBfMl8wJnV0bV9tZWRpdW09ZW1haWwmdXRtX3NvdXJjZT1wZXRpdGlvbl91cGRhdGUmdXRtX3Rlcm09Y3NXA3NwY0IKAC678RxeKBlBhFIeemVuYWFuLmNoYW5nZS5vcmdAZnJlZWRibXMubmV0WAQC



- End forwarded message -

Re: Only one possible solution

[Ryan Carboni]

I may only have a passing familiarity with the concept of American
democracy limited to what I've read in my school textbooks and
wikipedia, but I'm pretty sure having sex with the right people does
not mean you get a get out of jail free card for ... well

I am reminded of the time I was perusing 4chan as I infrequently do
and there was a short video of deep fake Hillary Clinton on a guy
wearing bondage gear.

Yes... bait: like this really happens (knowing full well it does).
Then progress to saying pedophilia is just being thrown around. Why
make a big deal of pedophilia if all the lesser misdeeds can result in
removal from a job? (Gamergate was the strangest conflation of ethics
in gaming journalism with jilted lovers)



This is totally ludicrous, at least all the blackmail victims could
just close ranks and deny if they weren't all repeat offenders. And so
the world leans on a precipice as everyone in charge has a time
preference of about ten minutes or less.

Re: Code: Hello World

[Ryan Carboni]

At one bit of entropy per syscall, hello world is sufficient to
achieve post quantum security.

Only one possible solution

[Ryan Carboni]

There is only one possible solution to an unacceptable situation, and
an undesired obstacle, particularly if the risks are worth taking.

I represent the interests of a variety of people who are productive,
are in favor of continuing to be productive, and generally are not
interested in the tedium of politics. However to stay relevant, it may
be worth listening to them if they think something is a priority.

Re: Vermont: Year in prison for anyone under 21 in possession of cell phone - tentative legislation

[Marina Brown]

On 1/11/20 11:01 AM, Razer wrote:
> Not going to happen, Nazi. Only affluent white people live in Vermont
> except for a microscopic black community in Burlington and a few
> scattered remnants of revolutionary war black families in the rest of
> the state. The was ONE such family in the 3th largest city in the state,
> Bennington, in  the early-mid 1970s when I lived there, but they may
> have moved over the NY and Mass state lines along with all the working
> class folks eventually.
> 
> NO ONE tells affluent white xtian people what they can do.
> 

Razor - your ignorance about the state is showing.

There are a lot of appalachia-like areas in Vermont - particularly
in the Northeastern part of the state. I know quite a few people who
live without water.

Most of the state is not Stowe and even the picturesque towns with
pristine town centers are often a facade in front of people who don't
have enough money to eat.

Here is an article about how awful the schools are. This is NOT an
isolated incident.

https://vtdigger.org/2020/01/05/for-drawing-a-picture-a-6-year-old-was-suspended-for-10-days/

Some of the very old black families are still around if you know where
to look, though the state is quite white. Some of the people listed as
white might not be if you scratch a bit. People who could pass as white
often did to avoid the eugenics campaigns leveled against the abenaki.

> I CAN see banning them from school environments though.
> 
> Why? Because even when I was driving school bus in Bennnington in the
> 70s those rich white kids were mental midgets like their parents.
> Affluent 'hayseeds' just as surely as affluent city kids mimic ghetto
> 'ganstas'
> 
> "We got high-school kids running 'round in Calvin Klein and Guess
> who cannot pass a sixth-grade reading test
> but if you ask them, they can tell you
> the name of every crotch on mTV
> and it feels like I am living in the wasteland of the free.
> 
> While we sit gloating in our greatness
> justice is sinking to the bottom of the sea
> Living in the wasteland of the free
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYqDpL0YCvI
> 
> 
> 75%+ of Americans can't locate Iran on a map and many thought Canada is
> Iran.
> 
> Australia too.
> 
> McClatchy:
> https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/article239134333.html
> 
> 
> Rr
> 
> Ps. You can all sing along:
> 
> We got preachers dealing in politics and diamond mines
> and their speech is growing increasingly unkind
> They say they are Christ's disciples
> but they don't look like Jesus to me
> and it feels like I am living in the wasteland of the free
> 
> We got politicians running races on corporate cash
> Now don't tell me they don't turn around and kiss them peoples' ass
> You may call me old-fashioned
> but that don't fit my picture of a true democracy
> and it feels like I am living in the wasteland of the free
> 
> We got CEO's making two hundred times the workers' pay
> but they'll fight like hell against raising the minimum wage
> and If you don't like it, mister, they'll ship your job
> to some third-world country 'cross the sea
> and it feels like I am living in the wasteland of the free
> Related
> 
> Living in the wasteland of the free
> where the poor have now become the enemy
> Let's blame our troubles on the weak ones
> Sounds like some kind of Hitler remedy
> Living in the wasteland of the free
> 
> We got little kids with guns fighting inner city wars
> So what do we do, we put these little kids behind prison doors
> and we call ourselves the advanced civilization
> that sounds like crap to me
> and it feels like I am living in the wasteland of the free
> 
> We got high-school kids running 'round in Calvin Klein and Guess
> who cannot pass a sixth-grade reading test
> but if you ask them, they can tell you
> the name of every crotch on mTV
> and it feels like I am living in the wasteland of the free
> 
> We kill for oil, then we throw a party when we win
> Some guy refuses to fight, and we call that the sin
> but he's standing up for what he believes in
> and that seems pretty damned American to me
> and it feels like I am living in the wasteland of the free
> 
> Living in the wasteland of the free
> where the poor have now become the enemy
> Let's blame our troubles on the weak ones
> Sounds like some kind of Hitler remedy
> Living in the wasteland of the free
> 
> While we sit gloating in our greatness
> justice is sinking to the bottom of the sea
> Living in the wasteland of the free
> Living in the wasteland of the free
> Living in the wasteland of the free
> 
> 



0xE109717AEEB5D84E.asc
Description: application/pgp-keys

Re: This is the Opportunity-cost of NOT implementing my AP idea

[Cecilia Tanaka]

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020, 13:56 Greg Newby  wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 04:50:51PM -0300, Punk-Stasi 2.0 wrote:
> >
> >   it seems that once in a while the confirmation messages are not
> set, or get lost. Big deal. You can check the archive to see if the server
> received your message, and if it did, you can assume the server sent it to
> all of us.
> >
> >   ARCHIVE
> https://lists.cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/
>
> Yes, exactly. Check your spam filters etc. in case messages to you are
> eaten by your own mail system. Mail deliver to & from the PGLAF server that
> hosts lists.cpunks.org seems to be robust (i.e., I get notifications
> about various bounces etc., and there are surprisingly few problems).
>
> Note especially that GMail and probably a few other web-based interfaces
> *refuse* to show you a copy of your own posting, even if it arrives in your
> inbox.
>
> At https://lists.cpunks.org you can use your personal subscriber password
> (or ask for it to be set/sent), to turn on an automated acknowledgment for
> every message you send. There are a few other settings you can tweak there,
> too.
>
> But the bottom line is: check the archive, above (no login/password
> required), to confirm whether your message was posted to the list.
>
> There used to be a few situations where messages were silently rejected
> (such as when having too many cc: or to: recipients). I think we have now
> set things so that anything that is received, but not posted, will generate
> some sort of message back to the posting address. In other words, rejection
> or moderation or other failures to post SHOULD result in an email back to
> you explaining what happened.


Thanks a lot for being so didactic and patient, guys.  Love you both very
much!!  <3

Hope the complaints cease now.  Greg is doing a great work here, exactly
like Riad and all the others did before him.  <3

The Hill: Congress struggles on rules for cyber warfare with Iran | TheHill

[jim bell]

The Hill: Congress struggles on rules for cyber warfare with Iran | TheHill.
https://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/477795-congress-struggles-on-rules-for-cyber-warfare-with-iran

Re: This is the Opportunity-cost of NOT implementing my AP idea

[John Young]

Complaints about list processing is a venerable troll of public masturbation.

Re: Richard Spencer is like a little baby

[Ryan Carboni]

>https://nitter.net/LokiJulianus/status/1202030931168632832
>
>The networks that Richard Spencer belongs to make decisions after an
>orgy. He has no idea how to handle a situation where someone laughs at
>the idea of a guy raping his countrymen. Certainly Spencer should have
>glared at minimum.
>
>I've attached a salient picture.
>-- next part --
>A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>Name: 01.jpg
>Type: image/jpeg
>Size: 126691 bytes
>Desc: not available
>URL: 
>


The guy on the right has a killer's expression.

Remember it.

The guy on the left has the expression of someone who will stand aside.

Remember that too.

Re: This is the Opportunity-cost of NOT implementing my AP idea

[Greg Newby]

On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 04:50:51PM -0300, Punk-Stasi 2.0 wrote:
> 
> 
>   it seems that once in a while the confirmation messages are not set, or 
> get lost. Big deal. You can check the archive to see if the server received 
> your message, and if it did, you can assume the server sent it to all of us. 
> 
>   ARCHIVE https://lists.cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/

Yes, exactly. Check your spam filters etc. in case messages to you are eaten by 
your own mail system. Mail deliver to & from the PGLAF server that hosts 
lists.cpunks.org seems to be robust (i.e., I get notifications about various 
bounces etc., and there are surprisingly few problems).

Note especially that GMail and probably a few other web-based interfaces 
*refuse* to show you a copy of your own posting, even if it arrives in your 
inbox.

At https://lists.cpunks.org you can use your personal subscriber password (or 
ask for it to be set/sent), to turn on an automated acknowledgment for every 
message you send. There are a few other settings you can tweak there, too.

But the bottom line is: check the archive, above (no login/password required), 
to confirm whether your message was posted to the list.

There used to be a few situations where messages were silently rejected (such 
as when having too many cc: or to: recipients). I think we have now set things 
so that anything that is received, but not posted, will generate some sort of 
message back to the posting address. In other words, rejection or moderation or 
other failures to post SHOULD result in an email back to you explaining what 
happened.
  - Greg

Re: This is the Opportunity-cost of NOT implementing my AP idea

[Greg Newby]

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 08:41:06AM -0800, Razer wrote:
> 
> On 1/13/20 1:12 AM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
> > On 1/12/20 20:15, Greg Newby wrote:
> >> You're not unsubscribed, otherwise you would not have been able to post 
> >> this message.
> > When was the change made to only allow subscribers to post?
> >
> 
> WTF kind of listserv allows posts from non-subscribers? Never heard of
> any such thing, and the only reason I can see for that arrangment is to
> destroy the usability of a list and clog it's servers with spam instead
> of posts on the topic(s) relevant to the list.
> 
> Rr

The cypherpunks list has only allowed subscribers to post since it moved to 
Mailman (i.e., years ago). When non-subscribers try to post, they get an 
automated response.

At least some of the Cypherpunks Distributed Remailers (CDRs) and predecessor 
lists allowed anyone to post, as evidenced by the massive quantities of spam in 
the cypherpunks-legacy archive (now at https://lists.cpunks.org).

My recollection (from later years of CDRs, when I joined) was that some CDRs 
restricted to subscribers. But some did not. And all CDRs would allow all 
traffic from all other CDRs (more or less...). 
  - Greg

Re: This is the Opportunity-cost of NOT implementing my AP idea

[Razer]

On 1/13/20 1:12 AM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
> On 1/12/20 20:15, Greg Newby wrote:
>> You're not unsubscribed, otherwise you would not have been able to post this 
>> message.
> When was the change made to only allow subscribers to post?
>

WTF kind of listserv allows posts from non-subscribers? Never heard of
any such thing, and the only reason I can see for that arrangment is to
destroy the usability of a list and clog it's servers with spam instead
of posts on the topic(s) relevant to the list.

Rr

Re: This is the Opportunity-cost of NOT implementing my AP idea

[Razer]

On 1/12/20 4:42 PM, Punk-Stasi 2.0 wrote:
>
>   Now is my turn, haha. I haven't received any messages for a day or so, 
> but I see that new messages have been posted. Wondering if I've been 
> unsubscribed somehow - or cock.li is playing up. 
>
>
>

I've been seeing your messages. Maybe the email relay server thinks the
copies going back to you are spam and shitcans them. Good luck figuring
out which relay, and even better luck figuring out how to contact and
convince the operator to de-list crock.lie from their spam list. The
domain name alone says "Spam that belongs in the the bitbucket".

Rr



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The flip side of UBI/ Universal Basic Income - beware what you ask for - [MONEY]

[Zenaan Harkness]

UBI, what could possibly go wrong?

IOW, be (very) careful what you ask for ...


  Universal Basic Income: A Dream Come True For Despots
  
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/universal-basic-income-dream-come-true-despots

...
“What do you think the potential disadvantages of the basic
income would be, then?”

[My neighbour] replies, “There aren’t any.”

Trade-Offs Are Inescapable
...
But the universal basic income seems unaffected. It’s going to
cure poverty, eliminate stress, reduce crime, unleash
entrepreneurship, emancipate women, save us from AI, and fight
climate change. I’m not not exaggerating. I googled, and there
are multiple articles claiming that, not only will the UBI save
the economy from flatlining due to a lack of consumer demand by
increasing consumption, but somehow also put a halt to global
warming as well — contradictory as these two aims may seem.

...
Trusting the World's Regimes to Do Good?

Most people agree that politics is a dirty game and that
political powers will inevitably be used to further the agenda of
officeholders and their cronies. That said, despite being
immersed in the current thinking regarding UBI for three years
now, I have seen precious little worrying as to what the
government — or a future government — might actually do once it
has seized control over everyone’s purse strings.

After all, these governments are composed of the same people who
launched a permanent war in the Middle East, wasting trillions of
dollars on destroying millions of lives. These governments bailed
out the banks from the public purse and gave themselves raises
after telling the rest of the nation we had to tighten our belts.
They have robbed the young of the opportunity to own a home by
sending house prices through the roof and mean to leave them a
nation in ruinous debt. They continue locking away huge numbers
of people for decades for victimless crimes, leaving their
children to be raised single-handed. They created an oligopoly of
higher education provision forcing generations into student debt
that cannot be defaulted on, and healthcare systems that are so
restrictive that people must pay inordinate sums to get care or
are otherwise forced onto government waiting lists so long that
many of their conditions are chronic or untreatable before they
are seen to.

Am I the only one who thinks these powers may be used for evil
rather than good?

China’s “Credit System”

One such cautionary tale may be found in China.
...

[ -- money quote --- ]
Now a basic income guarantee may begin universal, but as the
years wear on and it proves expensive to provide, it might be
that corners have to be cut in order to ensure its continued
fungibility. Hardly anyone will object to the UBI being withdrawn
from criminals, for example. And then perhaps for antisocial
behaviour. People may have their universal basic income docked
for committing petty crimes like littering the street. A few
might moan that this is the beginning of a government social
engineering program, but to most people this will seem like a
quite a sensible and reasonable measure. After all, we all
“benefit” from the benevolence of society providing our roads and
schools, and now our basic income. So if some choose to repay
society in disrespect, with such vulgar behaviour as littering,
throwing away the ends of cigarettes, spitting on the street,
failing to remove their dog foul, or what have you, why should
society continue to furnish them with the fullness of a basic
income? Besides, if their basic income is docked for several
months they are unlikely to repeat the crime — they will soon
learn their lesson. It will save money on law enforcement,
lengthy court trials, and prison sentences as well, all of which
are costly. Clipping people’s basic income will soon seem the
most sensible and appropriate response to many crimes and
misdemeanours. People may be sanctioned for things like not
sorting out their recycling. After all, the government provides
garbage disposal for us, and the environment is at stake.
Governments are already looking at sanctioning people for this
kind of behaviour, so the step would not be much of a leap. These
steps will simply be designed to acclimatize people to the idea
of being “nudged” in the right direction before more radical
measures are taken to use the UBI to shape their behaviour.

...
In China people can have their social credit score docked for
posting fake news online. We may, of course, ask, fake according
to whom? After all, the Chinese government maintains that the
Tienanmen Square Massacre of 1989 was “fake news” drummed up by
the West to undermine the 

Re: Vermont: Year in prison for anyone under 21 in possession of cell phone - tentative legislation

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 03:18:14AM -0600, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
> On 1/11/20 18:44, Razer wrote:
> > Ps. The first time I ever saw a calculator allowed in a classroom, no
> > less a test area, I knew American children would be a global math fail.
> > You need to learn the mechanics, just like you need to learn Text is
> > spelled TEXT not TXT, first. Then you can fake it. Which is what I
> > always told the class A drivers I trained. Learn to do it MY way first,
> > THEN you can do it your way.
> 
> It is important to know how to do basic math using only pencil and
> paper, but beyond addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, and
> square roots (which can be done on paper, just nobody teaches them
> anymore), a lot of the calculations start to get really tedious when you
> have to work out each step by hand (trigonometry functions, logarithms,
> etc) and the chances for errors go way up.


Even then, if you learn to differentiate ("re-establish") sin(),
cos() and tan() from "first principles", that's not only a good
feeling, but a prima facie demonstration of understanding, which
opens doors to nutha level nunderstandin', muh muffaluggerahs :)


  Differentiating cos and sin from First Principles
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmBIyKQleWU

  Differentiating sin(x) and cos(x) from first principles
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojNz3Yd-mnI

  Differentiation of trigonometric functions - Wikipedia
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differentiation_of_trigonometric_functions

  Derivatives of Sine, Cosine and Tangent
  
https://www.intmath.com/differentiation-transcendental/1-derivative-sine-cosine-tangent.php

  Sin cos and tan from first principles — browse images
  
https://yandex.com/images/search?text=sin%20cos%20and%20tan%20from%20first%20principles=image=21265=1578910610374653-977297112862716815500123-vla1-3507=wiz



> Yes, if you need a calculator to do 2+2, you deserve to fail math. But
> that's not why calculators are allowed on modern math tests.
> 
> -- 
> Shawn K. Quinn 
> http://www.rantroulette.com
> http://www.skqrecordquest.com

Re: CIA Offers Tips on Preparing a Plan and "Go-Bag" for Emergencies (say, Iran payback)

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Tue, Jan 07, 2020 at 05:16:52PM -0500, John Young wrote:
> CIA Offers Tips on Preparing a Plan and "Go-Bag" for Emergencies (say, Iran
> payback):
> 
> https://www.cia.gov/news-information/blog/2019/ask-molly-nov-20-2019.html


Might be more useful for Israeli's at this point ...

  Here's Why Trump Tipped Israel Off To Soleimani Strike:
  They Helped With Intel

  
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/heres-why-trump-tipped-israel-soleimani-strike-they-helped-intel

  
https://21stcenturywire.com/2020/01/12/confirmed-israeli-supplied-the-key-intelligence-for-us-assassination-of-irans-soleimani/

This latest revelation should not surprise anyone who has been
actively following the exploits of the current Trump
Administration and its partner organization, Israel’s Netanyahu
government.

[Pic of Trump+Bibi bff hand clasp not attached]

According to a recent report released by the Times of Israel, it
was officials in Tel Aviv who provided the White House with the
key intelligence details leading to the targeted double
assassination of Iranian Quds Force leader, General Qasem
Soleimani, and senior Iraqi PMU commander, Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis,
on January 3rd.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-intel-helped-us-carry-out-strike-that-killed-irans-soleimani-report/

...
This latest news also validates previous analysis by 21WIRE which
concluded that Israel has been the primary source of
“intelligence” provided to the White House, relating to the
recent chain of events involving the United States, Iraq and
Iran.

https://21stcenturywire.com/2020/01/03/trumps-fatal-mistake-in-iraq-and-beginning-of-end-for-us-occupation/

Netanyahu Lied About Involvement

This also indicates that Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu was lying
last week when he told ministers that the killing of Soleimani
was “carried out solely by the US,” and that Israel was not
involved. According to Axios:

  “Netanyahu told Security Cabinet ministers Monday that the
  killing of Iranian Gen. Qasem Soleimani was carried out
  solely by the U.S. and that Israel was not involved in any
  way and must not be dragged into the escalating conflict, two
  ministers who attended the meeting told me.”
  
https://www.axios.com/netanyahu-israel-iran-soleimani-killing-b846c02b-f592-4b56-9827-9310cac092b8.html

...
It is important to note that from the onset of the Trump
presidency, Israel has played a visible role in directing US
policy regarding Iran. In fact, the current round of hostilities
between the US and Iran was started when the White House
unilaterally withdrew from the landmark international JCPOA Iran
Nuclear Agreement in May 2018. Leaked recordings reveal that
Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu boasted about his own role in
convincing the White House to unilaterally withdraw from the
JCPOA deal.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-recording-netanyahu-boasts-israel-convinced-trump-to-quit-iran-nuclear-deal/


"Like sands through the hourglass, these are the days of our lives."

Re: This is the Opportunity-cost of NOT implementing my AP idea

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 03:12:57AM -0600, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
> On 1/12/20 20:15, Greg Newby wrote:
> > You're not unsubscribed, otherwise you would not have been able to post 
> > this message.
> 
> When was the change made to only allow subscribers to post?

Sometime after my posts pushed the "uncensored" boundary a little too
far for folks.

Sorry about that;  I'm sure you never noticed, but I'm a bit of a
compulsive boundary tester.

Shuffles off to find a brown paper bag...


PS: I also hoped to avoid World War 3 via the possible election of
Hillary Clinton, and amplifying her moral and legal crimes seemed to
be about the only path available... which you might say added a
certain .. intensity to my compulsive boundary testing.

Re: Vermont: Year in prison for anyone under 21 in possession of cell phone - tentative legislation

[Shawn K. Quinn]

On 1/11/20 18:44, Razer wrote:
> Ps. The first time I ever saw a calculator allowed in a classroom, no
> less a test area, I knew American children would be a global math fail.
> You need to learn the mechanics, just like you need to learn Text is
> spelled TEXT not TXT, first. Then you can fake it. Which is what I
> always told the class A drivers I trained. Learn to do it MY way first,
> THEN you can do it your way.

It is important to know how to do basic math using only pencil and
paper, but beyond addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, and
square roots (which can be done on paper, just nobody teaches them
anymore), a lot of the calculations start to get really tedious when you
have to work out each step by hand (trigonometry functions, logarithms,
etc) and the chances for errors go way up.

Yes, if you need a calculator to do 2+2, you deserve to fail math. But
that's not why calculators are allowed on modern math tests.

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn 
http://www.rantroulette.com
http://www.skqrecordquest.com