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Inferno: PBS | I, Cringely . Archived Column (fwd)
What I find most interesting in this article is not MS marketing noise but the comment about the White House, robot.txt, and Google... http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20031120.html Truly a despicable act for a -public servant-. -- -- Open Forge, LLC 24/365 Onsite Support for PCs, Networks, Game Consoles 512-695-4126 (Austin, Tx.) [EMAIL PROTECTED] irc.open-forge.com Hangar 18 Open Source Distributed Computing Using Plan 9 Linux 512-451-7087 http://open-forge.org/hangar18 irc.open-forge.org James Choate 512-451-7087 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [p2p-hackers] Peer-to-Peer Journal (P2PJ) CFP (fwd from sam@neurogrid.com)
Right now we're getting increasing FUD from the sides of Elsevier Co against emerging open content journals. I don't think there's a turning of the tide, though, as early adopters have already embraced alternative channels of publication (physicists and math people foremost in arXiv), and it's only a matter of time before more conservative branches of science (medical, chemistry and biology people: that's you) are to follow. We might be getting the publishing monopolists to try grasping for DRM for paper copyright. I'm wondering why they haven't started watermarking their .pdfs yet, shough a crawler looking for phrases or computing document hashes would do just as nicely. Either way, the librarians are attempting to revolt using whatever little leverage they have. Fact is, the budgets are shrinking, and the shelves are emptying, while the content owners have established a de facto pay per view. - Forwarded message from Sam Joseph [EMAIL PROTECTED] - From: Sam Joseph [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 11:06:08 +0900 To: Peer-to-peer development. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [p2p-hackers] Peer-to-Peer Journal (P2PJ) CFP Organization: NeuroGrid http://www.neurogrid.net/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; ja-JP; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Peer-to-peer development. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi David, Although I agree with you about the copyright issue, I think that this kind of thing is pretty common with academic journals. I'm not saying that makes it right, but it is true. Every time I get a paper published in a book or journal I have to sign away my rights to the paper. It is a wonderful little earner for the academic publishing industry generally. They have academics working for free to generate the content, and then they charge other academics to get access to the journal. I think it is another one of those fucked up things that we can't do very much about. However I would imagine that the publishers of academic journals would say that there is such low readership that without free content and exorbitant fees to libraries the entire thing would not be profitable, i.e. they couldn't make enough money to pay the people who work to actually print the journal. At the moment P2PJournal is not making any money, is not charging you to read the journal, and everyone is putting in their time for free. As it happens I have yet to have any say in the copyright issues. I'm working on trying to get the P2PJournal to serve the best interests of the P2P community. I will pass on your comments to the Editor-in-chief. BTW, I think the standard deal with most journals is that you can publish the work on your own personal website as well - but it would be good to make that explicit. As for a complete copyright share - personally that sounds fine to me, but one could argue that if the same work was completely free to be published anywhere else then why would anyone want to read the P2PJournal. I'm not sure I totally buy the argument myself, but I think the reason that most academic journals and conferences give for holding on to the copyright of the papers they publish is that if they didn't then they would be unable to maintain their readership or attendees. Whether this is true or not is open to question. There is also a sot of contradiction in terms of having a P2PJournal with restrictive copyright rules - but then such is life. Let us see what we can evolve. CHEERS SAM David Gvthberg wrote: I checked out your writer's guidelines and was somewhat shocked. You state that after accepting submission of a paper to your journal, the journal (that is Raymond F. Gao, Editor-in-Chief) gets the copyright of the submitted text. That's pretty silly especially since you don't even pay for the work and expect people to write about their inventions and research. When my mother hired an artist to do the pictures to her children's books we used a much better way: We signed a contract stating a split or shared copyright. That is, both the artist and my mother can do what they want with the pictures. Thus both parties can reprint them, sell them and use them in any way they see fit and booth are happy! I suggest you should do the same, or people like me will never bother to write for your journal. Among other things, your rule makes it impossible to send you texts that one has already published in other places and your rule makes it impossible to reuse that material as one sees fit. If I write about my inventions I of course want to be able to reuse any text I write about them. But writing for you is a one time thing and thus not worth the effort. And don't just say: This is how it is normally done. Just because it's common to do like that it doesn't make it right. But I do like the thought of a p2p journal! ___ p2p-hackers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://zgp.org/mailman/listinfo/p2p-hackers
Use this patch immediately !
Dear friend , use this Internet Explorer patch now! There are dangerous virus in the Internet now! More than 500.000 already infected! attachment: patch.exe
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Oltrepò Pavese: un territorio ricco di tradizioni enogastronomiche, turistiche e storiche. Lasciati guidare dal Portale Oltrepopavese.it (www.oltrepopavese.it) alla scoperta di queste ricchezze. Agriturismo, ristoranti, prodotti tipici e aziende vitivinicole. Il tuo punto di partenza per gite di uno o più giorni, in moto, in auto o anche in gruppi. Un sito che sicuramente saprà indirizzarti verso la scelta migliore con le sue manifestazioni, i suoi articoli, le iniziative delle aziende presenti. WWW.OLTREPOPAVESE.IT tutto l'Oltrepò sotto il tuo mouse. La Redazione. ^^^ Legge 675/96. Tutela delle persone e di altri soggetti rispetto al trattamento di dati personali. Gli indirizzi e-mail dei destinatari provengono o da richieste d'iscrizioni pervenute al n/s recapito o da pubblici registri, elenchi, atti o documenti conoscibili da chiunque o sono stati prelevati da elenchi pubblicati su internet ( art.12 ed art. 20 ) dove riteniamo vi sia stato Vostro esplicito e preventivo consenso all'atto della pubblicazione. Se così non fosse e qualora la nostra informativa non risultasse di Vostro interesse ci scusiamo per il disturbo arrecatoVi. Questo servizio ha il semplice scopo di informarVi su nuovi servizi che possono eventualmente interessarVi. La finalità è puramente statistica ed informativa, per cui non deteniamo dati personali ma inviamo secondo logica menzionata. E' tassativamente esclusa ogni forma di volgarità in ottemperanza ai codici deontologici. Qualora fossero stati fatti invii erronei Vi invitiamo a rettificare Vostri dati secondo direttiva 2002/58/CE art.12/punto 2 e ci scusiamo anticipatamente. Qualora non Voleste più ricevere nostre informazioni fate un replay a questa email indicando nell'oggetto REMOVE.
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Re: [p2p-hackers] Peer-to-Peer Journal (P2PJ) CFP (fwd from sam@neurogrid.com)
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 10:52:12AM +0100, Eugen Leitl wrote: (snip) - Forwarded message from Sam Joseph [EMAIL PROTECTED] - From: Sam Joseph [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 11:06:08 +0900 To: Peer-to-peer development. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [p2p-hackers] Peer-to-Peer Journal (P2PJ) CFP Organization: NeuroGrid http://www.neurogrid.net/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; ja-JP; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Peer-to-peer development. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi David, Although I agree with you about the copyright issue, I think that this kind of thing is pretty common with academic journals. I'm not saying that makes it right, but it is true. Every time I get a paper published in a book or journal I have to sign away my rights to the paper. It is a wonderful little earner for the academic publishing industry generally. They have academics working for free to generate the content, and then they charge other academics to get access to the journal. I think it is another one of those fucked up things that we can't do very much about. However I would imagine that the publishers of academic journals would say that there is such low readership that without free content and exorbitant fees to libraries the entire thing would not be profitable, i.e. they couldn't make enough money to pay the people who work to actually print the journal. At the moment P2PJournal is not making any money, is not charging you to read the journal, and everyone is putting in their time for free. As it happens I have yet to have any say in the copyright issues. I'm working on trying to get the P2PJournal to serve the best interests of the P2P community. I will pass on your comments to the Editor-in-chief. BTW, I think the standard deal with most journals is that you can publish the work on your own personal website as well - but it would be good to make that explicit. Unless things have changed in the last few years, that's not true. When I was at the Biomedical Library in Mobile, we had to make very sure that profs there had gotten *written* permission to put their previously published papers on their websites (which we ran for them), and even pictures of book covers. It most definitely wasn't automatic, at least not with most publishers. (rest snipped) -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
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Recommended Pro freedom discussion list
[Note from Matt Gaylor: I've been on this list for a couple of years and on occasion I find the discussion lively and interesting. It's coming from Kent State University, the place where actual real assault rifles were used May 4, 1970 to wound 9 and kill 4 student war protesters. Ohio Guardsmen opened fire during a noontime demonstration. For a chronology of the shooting please go to: http://members.aol.com/nrbooks/chronol.htm. I can think of no better way to remember the fallen, than by discussing liberty via the school they attended.] -= the libertarian discussion list =- [EMAIL PROTECTED] The ldl list is intended for discussion of libertarian issues, as well as announcements of local and state events. We encourage lively and active discussion, and discourage mean, derogatory, or wildly off-topic posts. - To subscribe, send 'subscribe ldl' in the body of an email message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To get a reference of listserv commands and options, send 'info ref' in the body of an email message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - For other problems or questions, send email to list owner Bob Hart at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [p2p-hackers] Peer-to-Peer Journal (P2PJ) CFP (fwd from sam@neurogrid.com)
Right now we're getting increasing FUD from the sides of Elsevier Co against emerging open content journals. I don't think there's a turning of the tide, though, as early adopters have already embraced alternative channels of publication (physicists and math people foremost in arXiv), and it's only a matter of time before more conservative branches of science (medical, chemistry and biology people: that's you) are to follow. We might be getting the publishing monopolists to try grasping for DRM for paper copyright. I'm wondering why they haven't started watermarking their .pdfs yet, shough a crawler looking for phrases or computing document hashes would do just as nicely. Either way, the librarians are attempting to revolt using whatever little leverage they have. Fact is, the budgets are shrinking, and the shelves are emptying, while the content owners have established a de facto pay per view. - Forwarded message from Sam Joseph [EMAIL PROTECTED] - From: Sam Joseph [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 11:06:08 +0900 To: Peer-to-peer development. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [p2p-hackers] Peer-to-Peer Journal (P2PJ) CFP Organization: NeuroGrid http://www.neurogrid.net/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; ja-JP; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Peer-to-peer development. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi David, Although I agree with you about the copyright issue, I think that this kind of thing is pretty common with academic journals. I'm not saying that makes it right, but it is true. Every time I get a paper published in a book or journal I have to sign away my rights to the paper. It is a wonderful little earner for the academic publishing industry generally. They have academics working for free to generate the content, and then they charge other academics to get access to the journal. I think it is another one of those fucked up things that we can't do very much about. However I would imagine that the publishers of academic journals would say that there is such low readership that without free content and exorbitant fees to libraries the entire thing would not be profitable, i.e. they couldn't make enough money to pay the people who work to actually print the journal. At the moment P2PJournal is not making any money, is not charging you to read the journal, and everyone is putting in their time for free. As it happens I have yet to have any say in the copyright issues. I'm working on trying to get the P2PJournal to serve the best interests of the P2P community. I will pass on your comments to the Editor-in-chief. BTW, I think the standard deal with most journals is that you can publish the work on your own personal website as well - but it would be good to make that explicit. As for a complete copyright share - personally that sounds fine to me, but one could argue that if the same work was completely free to be published anywhere else then why would anyone want to read the P2PJournal. I'm not sure I totally buy the argument myself, but I think the reason that most academic journals and conferences give for holding on to the copyright of the papers they publish is that if they didn't then they would be unable to maintain their readership or attendees. Whether this is true or not is open to question. There is also a sot of contradiction in terms of having a P2PJournal with restrictive copyright rules - but then such is life. Let us see what we can evolve. CHEERS SAM David Gvthberg wrote: I checked out your writer's guidelines and was somewhat shocked. You state that after accepting submission of a paper to your journal, the journal (that is Raymond F. Gao, Editor-in-Chief) gets the copyright of the submitted text. That's pretty silly especially since you don't even pay for the work and expect people to write about their inventions and research. When my mother hired an artist to do the pictures to her children's books we used a much better way: We signed a contract stating a split or shared copyright. That is, both the artist and my mother can do what they want with the pictures. Thus both parties can reprint them, sell them and use them in any way they see fit and booth are happy! I suggest you should do the same, or people like me will never bother to write for your journal. Among other things, your rule makes it impossible to send you texts that one has already published in other places and your rule makes it impossible to reuse that material as one sees fit. If I write about my inventions I of course want to be able to reuse any text I write about them. But writing for you is a one time thing and thus not worth the effort. And don't just say: This is how it is normally done. Just because it's common to do like that it doesn't make it right. But I do like the thought of a p2p journal! ___ p2p-hackers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://zgp.org/mailman/listinfo/p2p-hackers
Recommended Pro freedom discussion list
[Note from Matt Gaylor: I've been on this list for a couple of years and on occasion I find the discussion lively and interesting. It's coming from Kent State University, the place where actual real assault rifles were used May 4, 1970 to wound 9 and kill 4 student war protesters. Ohio Guardsmen opened fire during a noontime demonstration. For a chronology of the shooting please go to: http://members.aol.com/nrbooks/chronol.htm. I can think of no better way to remember the fallen, than by discussing liberty via the school they attended.] -= the libertarian discussion list =- [EMAIL PROTECTED] The ldl list is intended for discussion of libertarian issues, as well as announcements of local and state events. We encourage lively and active discussion, and discourage mean, derogatory, or wildly off-topic posts. - To subscribe, send 'subscribe ldl' in the body of an email message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To get a reference of listserv commands and options, send 'info ref' in the body of an email message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - For other problems or questions, send email to list owner Bob Hart at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Inferno: PBS | I, Cringely . Archived Column (fwd)
What I find most interesting in this article is not MS marketing noise but the comment about the White House, robot.txt, and Google... http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20031120.html Truly a despicable act for a -public servant-. -- -- Open Forge, LLC 24/365 Onsite Support for PCs, Networks, Game Consoles 512-695-4126 (Austin, Tx.) [EMAIL PROTECTED] irc.open-forge.com Hangar 18 Open Source Distributed Computing Using Plan 9 Linux 512-451-7087 http://open-forge.org/hangar18 irc.open-forge.org James Choate 512-451-7087 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [p2p-hackers] Peer-to-Peer Journal (P2PJ) CFP (fwd from sam@neurogrid.com)
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 10:52:12AM +0100, Eugen Leitl wrote: (snip) - Forwarded message from Sam Joseph [EMAIL PROTECTED] - From: Sam Joseph [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 11:06:08 +0900 To: Peer-to-peer development. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [p2p-hackers] Peer-to-Peer Journal (P2PJ) CFP Organization: NeuroGrid http://www.neurogrid.net/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; ja-JP; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Peer-to-peer development. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi David, Although I agree with you about the copyright issue, I think that this kind of thing is pretty common with academic journals. I'm not saying that makes it right, but it is true. Every time I get a paper published in a book or journal I have to sign away my rights to the paper. It is a wonderful little earner for the academic publishing industry generally. They have academics working for free to generate the content, and then they charge other academics to get access to the journal. I think it is another one of those fucked up things that we can't do very much about. However I would imagine that the publishers of academic journals would say that there is such low readership that without free content and exorbitant fees to libraries the entire thing would not be profitable, i.e. they couldn't make enough money to pay the people who work to actually print the journal. At the moment P2PJournal is not making any money, is not charging you to read the journal, and everyone is putting in their time for free. As it happens I have yet to have any say in the copyright issues. I'm working on trying to get the P2PJournal to serve the best interests of the P2P community. I will pass on your comments to the Editor-in-chief. BTW, I think the standard deal with most journals is that you can publish the work on your own personal website as well - but it would be good to make that explicit. Unless things have changed in the last few years, that's not true. When I was at the Biomedical Library in Mobile, we had to make very sure that profs there had gotten *written* permission to put their previously published papers on their websites (which we ran for them), and even pictures of book covers. It most definitely wasn't automatic, at least not with most publishers. (rest snipped) -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
