On Mon, Apr 12, 2004 at 06:41:14PM +0100, Jim Dixon wrote:
Of course, most of this discussion revolves around one word: is. If you
said the Internet _can be seen_ as a tree, few would disagree with you,
especially if you allowed for the fact that that tree is continuously
changing its shape.
Tyler Durden wrote:
Someone enlighten me here...I don't see this as obvious. I might
certainly be willing to pay to route someone else's message if I
understand that to be the real cost of mesh connectivity. In other
words, say I'm driving down the FDR receiving telemetry about the road
through the other link.
-TD
From: Jim Dixon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: sunder [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Hierarchy, Force Monopoly, and Geodesic Societies
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:41:14 +0100 (BST)
On Sun, 11 Apr 2004, sunder wrote:
The term is used because most or all trees
On Sun, 11 Apr 2004, sunder wrote:
The term is used because most or all trees in the region where the English
language originated are shaped just like that: they have a single trunk
which forks into branches which may themselves fork and so on. These
branches do not connect back to one
It's a tree
No, it's not a tree
I thought we were sort of an autonomous collective!
Watery marketers lobbing Powerpoints is no basis for a form of architecture
Network engineers spend a lot of time making sure that their networks, and
the Internet, are not trees. Multiple peering and
Jim Dixon wrote:
The term is used because most or all trees in the region where the English
language originated are shaped just like that: they have a single trunk
which forks into branches which may themselves fork and so on. These
branches do not connect back to one another.
I believe the real
On Thu, Apr 08, 2004 at 03:29:58PM -0400, R. A. Hettinga wrote:
At 11:28 AM -0700 4/8/04, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
Geodesic means shortest path, and you'll note if you play with
tracert that the shortest path (as seen on Earth's surface) is rarely
taken.
A pretty densely distributed radio
RAH wrote...
At 10:43 AM -0700 4/9/04, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
Meshnets (everyone's a router) is cool, admittedly. But are you going
to spend *your* battery life routing someone else's message?
Only if they pay me cash
Someone enlighten me here...I don't see this as obvious. I might certainly
On Fri, Apr 09, 2004 at 06:22:06PM +0100, Jim Dixon wrote:
On Fri, 9 Apr 2004, Eugen Leitl wrote:
Internet is mostly a tree (if you look at the connectivity maps).
Not at all. A tree has a root; the Internet doesn't have one. Instead
you have several thousand autonomous systems
On Fri, 9 Apr 2004, Eugen Leitl wrote:
Internet is mostly a tree (if you look at the connectivity maps).
Not at all. A tree has a root; the Internet doesn't have one. Instead
you have several thousand autonomous systems interconnecting at a large
number of peering points.
At 8:29 PM +0100 4/9/04, Jim Dixon wrote:
Traffic was following a geodesic --
but not a geographic geodesic.
Right.
Geodesic is a topologic content. In three (two?) dimensions, a geodesic is
a great circle route across a sphere. In higher dimensions, it's something
else.
No. I don't know the
Meshnets (everyone's a router) is cool, admittedly. But are you going
to spend *your* battery life routing someone else's message?
Fixed P2P energy costs are trivial. Not so for mobile P2P.
And if your meshnodes are mains-powered, you have wires going there,
so wireless is less useful. Solar
On Fri, 9 Apr 2004, Eugen Leitl wrote:
Internet is mostly a tree (if you look at the connectivity maps).
Not at all. A tree has a root; the Internet doesn't have one. Instead
you have several thousand autonomous systems interconnecting at a large
number of peering points.
A
On Sat, 10 Apr 2004, Eugen Leitl wrote:
Yes. I know what a tree is, and I am quite familiar with structure of
the Internet. These very pretty pictures certainly look like the Internet
I am familiar with, but don't resemble trees.
There's a continuum between a tree and a high-dimensional
Jim Dixon wrote:
Yes. I know what a tree is, and I am quite familiar with structure of
the Internet. These very pretty pictures certainly look like the Internet
I am familiar with, but don't resemble trees.
It is a tree. I'll give you a hint. Think of this:
God is like an infinite sphere,
Tyler Durden wrote:
RAH wrote...
Only if they pay me cash
few miles. If I'm a router, I'm also sending that info behind me (which is
routing I'm paying for basically), but I will understand that the reason I
am getting my telemetry is precisely because there's a string of me's in
the
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At 4:43 PM -0700 4/8/04, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
Feel free to ignore any constructive hints of course :-) your prose
is more
identifying than your pk sig.
Apropros of actually something, that's how they used to go after
Detweiller around here when
capability.
As for the tem geodesic, I have to admit it's cool sounding in this
context.
-TD
From: R. A. Hettinga [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Hierarchy, Force Monopoly, and Geodesic Societies (Re: [irtheory]
Re: Anarchy and State Behaviors)
Date
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Hash: SHA1
At 4:41 AM + 4/8/04, Daniel Pineu wrote:
I am very curious about what are your views about the twin concept
of hierarchy
Hierarchy emerges as a result of the economics of information
switching.
When you have expensive nodes (brains) and
At 03:29 PM 4/8/04 -0400, R. A. Hettinga wrote:
At 11:28 AM -0700 4/8/04, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
Geodesic means shortest path, and you'll note if you play with
tracert that the shortest path (as seen on Earth's surface) is rarely
taken.
Measure the path in time?
Yeah, some dead french dude
At 01:56 PM 4/8/04 -0400, R. A. Hettinga wrote:
[Nanotechology at least holds out the possibility of making Von
Neumann machines, that is, switches which make copies of themselves,
You mean Johnny's *replicators*, a vN machine is just one with
a changable program store. But you mentioned Jared
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