Re: How can you tell if your alarm company's...
Harmon Seaver said: But how important is that anyway? Most any half competent burglar knows enough to cut the phone wire before the BE, so they don't get called. A local alarm company here (Alarmforce) advertises an extra to their basic package: a backup cellular phone link to their monitoring system. Not sure if it's really functional, or just burgular FUD, but many people have taken it...at an extra charge, of course... -Tim
Re: How can you tell if your alarm company's...
The alarm and security specialists we've talked to claim the greatest threat to systems are authorized users: the property owners, their children, employees, servants, nearly all of whom fail to arm and disarm the system properly not matter how carefully instructed. A false alarm is feared by these users more than an attacker, for they are more often traumatized by an errant signal, and the outpouring of security personnel and police, than by an actual attacker. (Like the US security and law enforcement systems.) The security responders are so pissed, or so condescending, that the users are in a state of panic about the systems going off falsely. Answer to that is to leave the system off. And claim they forgot to arm it. Thus, self-censorship to keep the cops from attacking. Then there are panic room backups which freak the users due to its capability of killing them with false threats like the gentleman, Safra, was killed on the Mediterranean coast when he believed he was under attack as responders tried to rescue him. Responders are a genuine threat when they think you are an AIDS carrier. It's worth keeping in mind, that protective and security systems can do you great harm, like friendly fire and security agencies of all kinds -- banks, doctors, accountants, in-house guards, most trusted associates. Gun owners, and nations, being killed by their own weapons is a kissing cousin threat. Technology is a gun most often in the hands of those will to fire first then question who's there. WMDs are the biggest threat to the US and ilk, those owned by the panic-room trapped users. North Korea, say, or the Joint Chiefs, aided and abetted by the low-credibility spooks. Back to failure of home security systems: its the back-up batteries that don't get replaced, rather the monthly bill for service is neglected by wayward servants while the owner is vacationing on a yacht being tracked by IRS.
Re: How can you tell if your alarm company's...
From what I've heard (not confirmed) most of this stuff is either simple sensors (continuity test) or it talks over a variant of rs422 - unencrypted for things like keypads. Not good, especially if these are accessible on the outside. --Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--- + ^ + :25Kliters anthrax, 38K liters botulinum toxin, 500 tons of /|\ \|/ :sarin, mustard and VX gas, mobile bio-weapons labs, nukular /\|/\ --*--:weapons.. Reasons for war on Iraq - GWB 2003-01-28 speech. \/|\/ /|\ :Found to date: 0. Cost of war: $800,000,000,000 USD.\|/ + v + : The look on Sadam's face - priceless! [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net On Sat, 9 Aug 2003, Neil Johnson wrote: I have always wondered how the arm/disarm keypad works in most alarm systems. I would hope it would send a reasonably secure code to the controller to disable the alarm system, but I fear that it just a nothing more than a fancy remote relay and can be easily bypassed.
Re: How can you tell if your alarm company's...
On Sat, Aug 09, 2003 at 08:52:32AM -0400, Roy M. Silvernail wrote: On Saturday 09 August 2003 02:01, John Kozubik wrote: On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, Tyler Durden wrote: ...in cahoots with the authorities? Most intelligent and savvy people I know roll their own Tivo (PVR, etc.) - I think the answer to your question is that it would be reasonable (and trivial) to roll your own alarm system. But it's not trivial to roll your own 24/7 monitoring company with the ability to call in the cops. If the monitoring company is compromised, you're \033653337357 anyway, but without them, all you have is one of those car alarms that everyone ignores. But how important is that anyway? Most any half competent burglar knows enough to cut the phone wire before the BE, so they don't get called. That means that, yes, if some dimwit middleschool kid is doing the job, the cops get called, otherwise no. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: How can you tell if your alarm company's...
Spooks Physical IDS: If you are specifying a roll your own security system, you probably want to make a distinction between building an alarm company and a physical intrusion detection and logging system. With the former you're hoping to keep your items; with the latter you're trying to keep your infosec pristine, and the State Burglars will not take anything. That would look bad for the Alarm Company they work for (that you pay to keep your items). Car Alarms: If you have neighbors who can see your house, your homebrew security system can use either strobes to annoy or fake-flame-lighting to alarm them. Anon CopCalls: You could make an anon 911 call using an old unused cellphone ---the base stations will take a 911 without subscribing. You could use a dish to hit a distant cell. Though these are jammable. Best solution is personal IDS that stays quiet. Of course if you do log an intrusion you have to sanitize or leave the space. Keep the housecat away from the battery-powered ultrasound that cuts power to the red computer. --- Talk softly and carry a big lawyer. ---Hunter S Roosevelt
Re: How can you tell if your alarm company's...
On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, Tyler Durden wrote: ...in cahoots with the authorities? Most intelligent and savvy people I know roll their own Tivo (PVR, etc.) - I think the answer to your question is that it would be reasonable (and trivial) to roll your own alarm system. - John Kozubik [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.kozubik.com
How can you tell if your alarm company's...
..in cahoots with the authorities? In other words, lets say I leave my house for an extended period of time, and they tell the Alarm Monitoring company to shut down for a while so they can protect our freedoms. (I assume this is the way they would go about installing various things in one's house while away...wrong?) How can I tell if my alarm has been down for a period of time, assuming I don't believe the records of the alarm company in such cases? -TD _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: How can you tell if your alarm company's...
Add your own 2nd alarm system. You can even use the sensors of your existing one to interface with a computer (just the sensors, mind you, not the actual controllers.) Got a DSL line? Got a modem? Got a cell phone? Got a pager? Got network capable cameras? Got access to another computer outside your house that can also watch when your DSL line is down and notify you? Got a small computer you could hide somewhere non obvious? Like inside a wall? Maybe a still useable old laptop with a broken screen that you could pick up off ebay for cheap? Got an imagination and some wiring/programming skills? --Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--- + ^ + :25Kliters anthrax, 38K liters botulinum toxin, 500 tons of /|\ \|/ :sarin, mustard and VX gas, mobile bio-weapons labs, nukular /\|/\ --*--:weapons.. Reasons for war on Iraq - GWB 2003-01-28 speech. \/|\/ /|\ :Found to date: 0. Cost of war: $800,000,000,000 USD.\|/ + v + : The look on Sadam's face - priceless! [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, Tyler Durden wrote: ...in cahoots with the authorities? In other words, lets say I leave my house for an extended period of time, and they tell the Alarm Monitoring company to shut down for a while so they can protect our freedoms. (I assume this is the way they would go about installing various things in one's house while away...wrong?) How can I tell if my alarm has been down for a period of time, assuming I don't believe the records of the alarm company in such cases?
Re: How can you tell if your alarm company's...
On Saturday, August 9, 2003, at 04:23 PM, Harmon Seaver wrote: On Sat, Aug 09, 2003 at 08:52:32AM -0400, Roy M. Silvernail wrote: On Saturday 09 August 2003 02:01, John Kozubik wrote: On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, Tyler Durden wrote: ...in cahoots with the authorities? Most intelligent and savvy people I know roll their own Tivo (PVR, etc.) - I think the answer to your question is that it would be reasonable (and trivial) to roll your own alarm system. But it's not trivial to roll your own 24/7 monitoring company with the ability to call in the cops. If the monitoring company is compromised, you're \033653337357 anyway, but without them, all you have is one of those car alarms that everyone ignores. But how important is that anyway? Most any half competent burglar knows enough to cut the phone wire before the BE, so they don't get called. That means that, yes, if some dimwit middleschool kid is doing the job, the cops get called, otherwise no. Cellphones are cheap enough, and monthly charges are small enough when N machines share the same monthly account charge (Dad, Mom, Johnnie, Suzy, and Alarm). I would be surprised if today's alarm companies already aren't making good use of cellphones. I have a couple of perimeter lights and alarms on solar panels. Nothing to cut without either first using a ladder or, possibly, an accurate pellet gun to somehow disable the electronics. (One is mounted under the eaves of my roof, very high up. I may put another one in a tall oak.) I've also considered installing a full system with a beeper, with 802.11b cameras wirelessly sending to a laptop on a large battery. (If invaders/thieves/government agents find the laptop, in a closet devoted to this, they may not find the second such receiver, possibly hidden quite well. Or, for those who live near others, kept in a closet in the home of a friend. And even if they find it, I'll presumably still know I was invaded.) I figure that for a few thousand dollars and a spare laptop or two I could have a system very resistant to cutting phone or power lines, and something which would make surreptitious entry teams think twice. (Leave a couple of the 802.11b cameras visible, put another behind a Lexan plate, etc.) --Tim May The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not a sufficient warrant. --John Stuart Mill
