Re: Multiple passports?

2005-11-01 Thread Ken Brown

Bill Stewart wrote:


When I saw the title of this thread,
I was assuming it would be about getting Mozambique
or Sealand or other passports of convenience or coolness-factor
like the Old-School Cypherpunks used to do :-)


Actually the only passports that are significantly more 
convenient than US or UK ones (i.e. are more likely to get you 
in to more places with less fuss from locals in dark glasses) 
are from the  northern European states without a reputation as 
colonialists - in particular Scandinavian countries  Ireland. 
Everyone likes them.


I know plenty of people who used to keep both an Irish and a 
British passport. Unlike you picky Americans our governments 
don't have any objection to people being citizens of as many 
places as they an get away with. And in the days of emigration 
(all has changed now) you could get an Irish passport if your 
granny had once spent a wet weekend in Downpatrick.


All our passports are being assimilated into EU ones at the 
moment so I don't know if this has changed.


We used to do the Israel/everywhere else thing as well and also 
would issue spare passports for other places that were 
unpopular. IIRC Pakistan at one time looked askance at passports 
that had been to India. South African visitors weren't popular 
in many countries.  And I'm pretty sure that Britain sometimes 
issued spares to people who wanted to go to the USA after 
visiting Cuba or Iran (both increasingly popular holiday 
destinations from here)  I strongly suspect that this has 
changed now that UK pass laws are taken as dictation from the USA.





Re: Multiple passports?

2005-11-01 Thread Chris Clymer
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Peter Gutmann wrote:
 Gregory Hicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
 
As for applying for one now, I think the deadline for the non-RFID passwords
is about 3 days away (31 Oct 2005), but I could be wrong. (In other words, if
your application is not in processing by 31 Oct, then you get the new,
improved, RFID passport.)
 
 
 Ahh, but if you get one of the first passports issued then there are likely to
 still be some teething problems present, leading to sporadic failures of the
 first batch of RFID devices.  I have a funny feeling that this is going to
 happen to my new passport when it arrives.
 
 Peter.
 
 
I don't have a good feeling about this at all.  My passport is actually
invalid as a form of ID for anyone who checks closely(the BMV did!)
because the gov't printed the wrong birthdate on mine!

I went to Germany and back just after the embassy attacks in
africa(things were on high alert briefly then) with no questions on it.
 Try to renew my lost drivers license with it and suddenly its a damn
problem.

As far as I can tell, they used the month of issue as the birth month as
well.  A small mistake...but obviously an important one.  What ways do
you suppose there will be for them to screw up these RFID tags?  These
days ones libel to get branded a terrorist with the wrong info...
- --
  Chris Clymer - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
PGP: E546 19B6 D1EC 47A7 CAA0 8623 C807 398C CD27 15B8

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Re: Multiple passports?

2005-10-31 Thread Justin
On 2005-10-29T21:17:25-0700, Gregory Hicks wrote:
  Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 03:05:25 +
  From: Justin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  If I apply for a new one now, and then apply for a another one once
  the gov starts RFID-enabling them, will the first one be
  invalidated?  Or can I have two passports, the one without RFID to
  use, and the one with RFID to play with?
 
 I am not a State Dept person, but my experiences in this are...
 
 As for applying for one now, I think the deadline for the non-RFID
 passwords is about 3 days away (31 Oct 2005), but I could be wrong.
 (In other words, if your application is not in processing by 31 Oct,
 then you get the new, improved, RFID passport.)

The Department intends to begin the electronic passport program in 
December 2005. The first stage will be a pilot program in which the 
electronic passports will be issued to U.S. Government employees who 
use Official or Diplomatic passports for government travel. This pilot 
program will permit a limited number of passports to be issued and 
field tested prior to the first issuance to the American traveling 
public, slated for early 2006. By October 2006, all U.S. passports, 
with the exception of a small number of emergency passports issued by 
U.S. embassies or consulates, will be electronic passports.

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2005/05-21284.htm (2005-10-25 Fed. Reg.)

It sounds like it's fairly safe to get a new passport after Halloween...
at least until January.

-- 
The six phases of a project:
I. Enthusiasm. IV. Search for the Guilty.
II. Disillusionment.   V. Punishment of the Innocent.
III. Panic.VI. Praise  Honor for the Nonparticipants.



Re: Multiple passports?

2005-10-31 Thread Eugen Leitl
On Sun, Oct 30, 2005 at 03:05:25AM +, Justin wrote:
 If I apply for a new one now, and then apply for a another one once the
 gov starts RFID-enabling them, will the first one be invalidated?  Or
 can I have two passports, the one without RFID to use, and the one with
 RFID to play with?

Here in Germany the current ID (sans smartcard/rfid/biometics) will
be valid until expiry date.

-- 
Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a
__
ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820http://www.leitl.org
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Re: Multiple passports?

2005-10-31 Thread Peter Gutmann
Gregory Hicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

As for applying for one now, I think the deadline for the non-RFID passwords
is about 3 days away (31 Oct 2005), but I could be wrong. (In other words, if
your application is not in processing by 31 Oct, then you get the new,
improved, RFID passport.)

Ahh, but if you get one of the first passports issued then there are likely to
still be some teething problems present, leading to sporadic failures of the
first batch of RFID devices.  I have a funny feeling that this is going to
happen to my new passport when it arrives.

Peter.



Re: Multiple passports?

2005-10-31 Thread Gregory Hicks

 Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 03:05:25 +
 From: Justin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 If I apply for a new one now, and then apply for a another one once
 the gov starts RFID-enabling them, will the first one be
 invalidated?  Or can I have two passports, the one without RFID to
 use, and the one with RFID to play with?

I am not a State Dept person, but my experiences in this are...

If you get a new one, the old one has to accompany the application and
is invalidated when the new one is issued.  (Invalidated by stamping
the 'data' page with big red block letters INVALID.)  The old, now
invalid is returned with the new one...

The only people that I knew that had two passports were those with an
Official (red) passport or a Diplomatic (black) passport.  If they
wanted to go play tourist, they had to also have a tourist (Blue)
passport.

As for applying for one now, I think the deadline for the non-RFID
passwords is about 3 days away (31 Oct 2005), but I could be wrong.
(In other words, if your application is not in processing by 31 Oct,
then you get the new, improved, RFID passport.)

Regards,
Gregory Hicks

 
 -- 
 The six phases of a project:
 I. Enthusiasm. IV. Search for the Guilty.
 II. Disillusionment.   V. Punishment of the Innocent.
 III. Panic.VI. Praise  Honor for the Nonparticipants.

-
I am perfectly capable of learning from my mistakes.  I will surely
learn a great deal today.

A democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding on what to have for
lunch.  Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the results of the
decision. - Benjamin Franklin

The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they
be properly armed. --Alexander Hamilton



Re: Multiple passports?

2005-10-31 Thread Jay Goodman Tamboli
On 10/30/05, Gregory Hicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 The only people that I knew that had two passports were those with an
 Official (red) passport or a Diplomatic (black) passport.  If they
 wanted to go play tourist, they had to also have a tourist (Blue)
 passport.

I wasn't able to find a reference to support this on http://state.gov,
but I know it's possible to get two passports if you plan to travel to
both Israel and a country that refuses to admit people with Israeli
stamps in their passports.

/jgt



Re: Multiple passports?

2005-10-31 Thread Bill Stewart

When I saw the title of this thread,
I was assuming it would be about getting Mozambique
or Sealand or other passports of convenience or coolness-factor
like the Old-School Cypherpunks used to do :-)


On 10/30/05, Gregory Hicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 The only people that I knew that had two passports were those with an
 Official (red) passport or a Diplomatic (black) passport.  If they
 wanted to go play tourist, they had to also have a tourist (Blue)
 passport.


A few years ago, before heading on an overseas trip,
I was unable to locate my current passport.
After dealing with a voicemail system adapted from a Kafka novel,
and bringing myself, my previous expired passport and other id,
a couple official-sized photographs and cash through the
secret-handshake elevator into a big waiting room for a long morning,
they made me a new passport.   (If you need to replace a passport
more than a month before your planned travel,
you're supposed to use the regular process at the Post Office
and maybe pay extra for Express Mail if you're impatient.
If you need to replace a passport within 3 days of travel,
they've got expedited processes at major passport offices like San Francisco.
But if you need to replace your passport two weeks before the trip,
there's no way to talk to a human being, just Kafka's voicemailbot,
so you have to wait until 3 days before the trip
to get an appointment for the emergency expedited process
instead of going in when you and they aren't busy :-)

They informed me that the lost passport was now invalid
and I should turn it in if I find it, because if I were to use it
to get back into the country it would be rejected with extreme prejudice,
since its number is now on the lost passports list.
Of course the next day when I was packing,
the passport showed up on the closet floor under the suitcase,
and unlike the previous passport which I took in to replace
when it was about to expire, it doesn't have holes
punched in it and Expired stamped on it.

For domestic air travel since the recent military coup,
I normally bring a passport as ID, since it's a request from the
former United States government asking foreign governments
like the current TSA White People to let me pass,
and I'd rather carry the technically-invalid one with me
instead of the valid one just in case I lose it.
I think I've also used it to travel from the EU back to the US,
but I'd expect that the La Migra thugs will
eventually improve their databases, possibly even before my old one expires,
especially because Homeland Security wants to RFIDize us.

I was considering losing my current passport before the
RFID things get started, but it doesn't look like there's time,
so I've got about 5 years to hope that the Republicans get
thrown out on their asses in the next election and the
Democrats decide that returning to the Constitution will sell better
than continuing the Permanent State of Yellowalertness.
Given the previous Clinton Administration's behavior,
I don't expect the Hillary Clinton Administration to do any better.


At 09:27 PM 10/29/2005, Jay Goodman Tamboli wrote:
I wasn't able to find a reference to support this on http://state.gov,
but I know it's possible to get two passports if you plan to travel to
both Israel and a country that refuses to admit people with Israeli
stamps in their passports.


I don't think the US normally lets you have two passports,
or if they do they almost certainly have the same number.
But at least during the 1980s, Israel would be happy to give you
a separate piece of paper with to carry with your passport that
they'd stamp when you entered and left instead of stamping the
passport itself.  I don't remember if I did that or if I decided
not to worry about it because I'd visited the Arab countries
before going to Israel and didn't expect to get back any time soon.