Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[xorcist]

> Read the previous post. You don't 'own' anything. You correct factual
> mistakes but you have no 'side' in the discussion.

You're right. I don't take "sides" for the sake of taking sides. I try to
see the value of as many perspectives as possible, and to understand and
be able to reason from them.

I said, from the outset, that I'm not ideological in that way. Ideology is
rather like mental training wheels. There comes a time when you don't need
it.

>Corrections just mean
> you need to go look it up and fix it. Not change your mind.

I'm not sure what this even means. If I make a factual mistake, and look
it up and see that I was wrong, I then change my mind regarding that fact.
It may, or may not, change my interpretation of related facts, but I do
change my mind. I presume any sane person thinks this way?

>
> How much does Langley pay you by the word to do that?

We don't get paid by the word. If we did, I'd have already retired. And I
don't work for Langley. Brussels.

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[Александр]

2016-10-10 17:56 GMT+03:00 Razer :

> Here's what I have to say now. I've watched your convos with Juan... The
> amount of conflicitng nonsense you post in your over-worded boilerplate
> makes my eyes glaze over.
>
+1.

>
> You do not and cannot get to the point because
> all you are doing is 'hitting every pin' trying to glean reactions. No
> point necessary.
>
+1.


> How much does Langley pay you by the word to do that?
>

A HAHAHA!!!
I think this stupid dick works for free, Razer.

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[Razer]

On 10/09/2016 08:27 PM, xorc...@sigaint.org wrote:
> Whatever. Try owning your mis-statements, and dealing in facts. You'll
> find I reciprocate.


Read the previous post. You don't 'own' anything. You correct factual
mistakes but you have no 'side' in the discussion. Corrections just mean
you need to go look it up and fix it. Not change your mind.

How much does Langley pay you by the word to do that?

Rr

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[Razer]

On 10/09/2016 08:23 PM, xorc...@sigaint.org wrote:
>>
>>> Why not just address the point about Stalin, and forced work camps for
>>> homosexuals, starting in 1933?
>>
>>
>> Honestly? Because I'm not interested. You DID correct my blanket
>> statement about "since 1917" but the rest of your spew bores the living
>> fuck out of me.
> 
> Thank you for retracting an inaccuracy.
> 
> It leaves me to wonder, however, why you would choose to respond to the
> otherwise 'boring' points, rather than own the inaccuracy upfront to begin
> with and just move on.


Because I had something to say first...

Here's what I have to say now. I've watched your convos with Juan... The
amount of conflicitng nonsense you post in your over-worded boilerplate
makes my eyes glaze over. You do not and cannot get to the point because
all you are doing is 'hitting every pin' trying to glean reactions. No
point necessary.

How much does Langley pay you by the word to do that?

Rr



> 
>>
>> Also note Stalin's pronouncements regarding gays and others was just as
>> much a social aberration in Russia as the WWII internment of Japanese
>> Americans was in the US.
> 
> This is an excellent, and fair point! I have no illusions about U.S.
> mis-deeds. I am not anti-Russian, nor some type of neo-McCarthyist. Quite
> the contrary. The current situation being what it is, I give the moral
> high-ground to Russia.
> 
> Nevertheless whitewashing Russian (or American/British) history IS a
> misdeed. All governments fail in this way, and it is precisely the reason
> to distrust ALL government.
> 
>> I'm concerned with my OWN country's REACTIONARY freaks.
> 
> Fine. But again, please don't whitewash Russian history. That was my only
> objection - your statement gave a rosy view of Russian history which is
> not real. I understand that not ALL of Russian history was so -- monstrous
> -- as under Stalin. I also understand that American history is equally, if
> not more-so, stained -- but that was not the issue at hand.
> 

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[juan]

On Sun, 9 Oct 2016 06:05:50 -0400
John Newman  wrote:

> I feel a +100 from Alex coming on


That's great! That means I get 100 rubles transferretd to my
swiss account! 


> 
> random links: 
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Russia
> 
> http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/09/28/putin-condemns-homophobia-supports-lgbt-rights/amp/
> 
> It seems fairly nuanced. I have no idea which country, US or Russia,
> is more tolerant taken  on the whole... the few gay friends I had in
> central TX never had any problems (that they spoke of to me), and
> it's the same in the north eastern US. But surely worse in other
> areas.
> 
> I do agree both countries are shit or "every one is bad", in most
> other important areas. E.g. the nations are each fucked up
> militaristic murderous entities, run by a small cabal of elites more
> interested in money and power than peace or the welfare of their
> people and the world.
> 
> 
> John
> 
> sent by phone - pardon the formatting
> 
> > On Oct 9, 2016, at 1:19 AM, juan  wrote:
> > 
> > On Sun, 9 Oct 2016 01:54:01 -0300
> > Cecilia Tanaka  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >> 
> >> Always remember that military forces of all the countries work to
> >> their governments, to politicians.
> > 
> >I don't think you are in a position to teach how to look at
> >this =)
> > 
> >So, go ahead, Do your homework about the US. And spare me the
> >"every one is bad" line. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[xorcist]

>>  Focusing on discrimination in russia right now is WAR
>>  PROPAGANDA.
>>
>
>
> THAT'S the argument I've been making.

Ok. I get where you're coming from, and this is an important point of
INFORMATION WARFARE / PROPAGANDA.

In this aspect, I'll agree with you guys and admit that as distasteful to
me as sexual/gender discrimination is, I will admit that that it is MUCH
less important than the ramifications of war.

But, ignoring or whitewashing the REAL discrimination that going on is, in
my view, not the answer here. I would advocate calling out Russian
discrimination towards homosexuals, AND calling out American aggression
towards .. well.. the whole fucking world but Russia in particular right
now. Especially Russia, even, because it is insanely egregious.

Look, guys. It's obvious by now that we all have very different
perspectives... Juan is coming from a libertarian view, Razer from more of
a socialist / Communist view .. and I from a wild-eyed, messy hair /
skid-marks in my shorts anarchist framework but in terms of trying to hold
governments accountable, it seems like that may be the point of common
ground we share.

IW strategy is important, but the BEST IW strategy is FACTS.

If we can be FACTUAL about American, Russian, Belizian, and other
government misdeeds, and failures -- that is the ONLY way we're going to
be able to generate the momentum to challenge them.

After the governments crumble, and the dust settles, then we can hang out,
have a few beers, and philosophize about libertarianism vs. socialism vs
syndicalism vs martianism vs whatever.

But even all that is nonsense. I, for one, will call out factual
inaccuracies when I see them. I hope others do that for me.

Our interpretation of the facts my vary, but we should be able to
acknowledge the FACTS.

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[xorcist]

>
>
> On 10/09/2016 11:04 AM, xorc...@sigaint.org wrote:
>
>> anyone that disagrees with you at all, must be an agent of the state.
>
>
> No... You're mistaking me for Juan.
>
> Your reams of vacillating bullshit to garner reactions as the convo goes
> this way and that way and sideways is typical of social engineering
> operators
>

Whatever. Try owning your mis-statements, and dealing in facts. You'll
find I reciprocate.

Deal in bullshit ideology and willfully being blind to Russian (American,
or other) misdeeds? And I'll call you out. Start slinging bullshit, and I
have no qualms getting down to the farm as well.

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[xorcist]

>
>> Why not just address the point about Stalin, and forced work camps for
>> homosexuals, starting in 1933?
>
>
> Honestly? Because I'm not interested. You DID correct my blanket
> statement about "since 1917" but the rest of your spew bores the living
> fuck out of me.

Thank you for retracting an inaccuracy.

It leaves me to wonder, however, why you would choose to respond to the
otherwise 'boring' points, rather than own the inaccuracy upfront to begin
with and just move on.

>
> Also note Stalin's pronouncements regarding gays and others was just as
> much a social aberration in Russia as the WWII internment of Japanese
> Americans was in the US.

This is an excellent, and fair point! I have no illusions about U.S.
mis-deeds. I am not anti-Russian, nor some type of neo-McCarthyist. Quite
the contrary. The current situation being what it is, I give the moral
high-ground to Russia.

Nevertheless whitewashing Russian (or American/British) history IS a
misdeed. All governments fail in this way, and it is precisely the reason
to distrust ALL government.

> I'm concerned with my OWN country's REACTIONARY freaks.

Fine. But again, please don't whitewash Russian history. That was my only
objection - your statement gave a rosy view of Russian history which is
not real. I understand that not ALL of Russian history was so -- monstrous
-- as under Stalin. I also understand that American history is equally, if
not more-so, stained -- but that was not the issue at hand.

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[Cecilia Tanaka]

On Oct 9, 2016 4:31 PM, "juan"  wrote:

> >  [Ceci]  I will learn something more useful for me than hating the USA,
Juan.
>
>  [Juan]  Like loving the pentagon, its propaganda, and its current war
against russia?

I already answered to your question before, Juan, and  you strangely sent
my old answer with this message.  I only mentioned reading, coding and
eletronics.  Read it bellow with attention, please.

Please, read my messages for complete before say some ridiculous and non
sense thing  "like loving the pentagon, its propaganda, and its current war
against russia?"  Aff...  I have more to do than "loving the Pentagon".  I
won't spend my life in flame wars.



> > I am finishing the reading of an interesting book named "Speaking
> > Code: Coding as Aesthetic and Political Expression" and I am thinking
> > about new eletronics projects for making children laughing in the
> > Halloween.
> >
> > Candies, electronics and happy kids make me feel blessed for still
> > being alive.  Politics and corrupt and hypocrite politicians make me
> > strongly wish the suicide again.  Do you understand the
> > difference?  :)
> >
> > I am tired of pompous people auto-denominating themselves "activists",
> > speaking and writing millions of empty words, without saying something
> > really relevant, like Zenaan, for example, always does.  I want to
> > code and to create new ideas, to make new things.  I want to learn
> > and I always said it since the beggining.
> >
> > I am still reading all the suggested bibliography about Anarchism and
> > I am really grateful for all the wonderful references, but I am
> > making _my own interpretations_ of all the texts.  I am my own cat
> > and all the places are mine, do you remember?  I make my own choices,
> > wrong or not.
> >
> > I always read several books and texts at same time and, it definitely
> > isn't practical, but makes me happy.  It's fun to think about cute
> > pink unicorns and how to destroy governments at same time.
> >
> > I prefer learn how to coding well than the ABC of political theory,
> > if it will make me a neurotic, who will see USA, military forces or
> > fanatic religions in every disaster that happens in the world.  Did
> > Hurricane Matthew destroy Haiti because of USA military too?  Was it
> > lack of faith? Aff...  :(((
> >
> > Governments, corrupt politicians are the evil.  Not only USA
> > government, but ALL the governments, Russian included.
>

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[juan]

On Sun, 9 Oct 2016 13:33:56 -0700
Razer  wrote:


> >> And the rest: "Following its passage, there has been increased
> >> discrimination against gays, and increased protests. 
> > 
> > Protests? Aren't the protests 'banned'? 
> > You still don't get it. There's discrimination againg gays
> > in a lot of places. 
> > Focusing on discrimination in russia right now is WAR
> > PROPAGANDA. 
> > 
>  
> THAT'S the argument I've been making.


Yes, my bad.

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[juan]

Apologies, I replied to stuff  Razer wrote thinking it was
Cecilia's  - but my point stands anyway.

---


On Sun, 9 Oct 2016 08:27:59 -0700
Razer  wrote:

> 
> 
> On 10/08/2016 09:50 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
> > It is the sad reality. 
> 
> 
> You're still NOT making a case for the Russian government legislating
> homophobic polices.
> 
> What X mentioned: "law banning distribution of "propaganda
> of non-traditional sexual relationships" to minors." isn't.

To 'minors'? 

Wait, doesn't that come directly from the jew-kkkristians and
their junior anti-sex league? 


> 
> And the rest: "Following its passage, there has been increased
> discrimination against gays, and increased protests. 

Protests? Aren't the protests 'banned'? 

You still don't get it. There's discrimination againg gays in a
lot of places. 

Focusing on discrimination in russia right now is WAR
PROPAGANDA. 

You are doing your little part to fan the flames of war
Cecilia, and you are helping the US government extend their
power. Is that what you want? 

 


> In 2013 the USA
> received over 800 asylum requests from homosexuals in Russia
> 
> Welp! THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE FUCKING "CONVERSATION" GETS
> STARTED!
> 
> Reactionary behavior.
> 
> Thanks for making my point X.
> 
> Rr

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[juan]

On Sun, 9 Oct 2016 09:11:28 -0300
Cecilia Tanaka  wrote:

> On Oct 9, 2016 2:10 AM, "juan"  wrote:
> >
> > I don't know what 'neurotic' means. I do know the ABC of
> political theory though.
> 
> Definition of neurotic:
> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/neurotic

"tending to worry in a way that is not healthy or
reasonable" 

Except that my 'worries' are fully reasonable so your
definition doesn't apply. I'm not even bothering with the fact
that 'neurotic' is snobbish pyschobable (xorcist would love
the term!)


> 
> > So go ahead. Do your homework =)
> 
> I will learn something more useful for me than hating the USA, Juan.


Like loving the pentagon, its propaganda, and its current war
against russia? 



> I am finishing the reading of an interesting book named "Speaking
> Code: Coding as Aesthetic and Political Expression" and I am thinking
> about new eletronics projects for making children laughing in the
> Halloween.
> 
> Candies, electronics and happy kids make me feel blessed for still
> being alive.  Politics and corrupt and hypocrite politicians make me
> strongly wish the suicide again.  Do you understand the
> difference?  :)
> 
> I am tired of pompous people auto-denominating themselves "activists",
> speaking and writing millions of empty words, without saying something
> really relevant, like Zenaan, for example, always does.  I want to
> code and to create new ideas, to make new things.  I want to learn
> and I always said it since the beggining.
> 
> I am still reading all the suggested bibliography about Anarchism and
> I am really grateful for all the wonderful references, but I am
> making _my own interpretations_ of all the texts.  I am my own cat
> and all the places are mine, do you remember?  I make my own choices,
> wrong or not.
> 
> I always read several books and texts at same time and, it definitely
> isn't practical, but makes me happy.  It's fun to think about cute
> pink unicorns and how to destroy governments at same time.
> 
> I prefer learn how to coding well than the ABC of political theory,
> if it will make me a neurotic, who will see USA, military forces or
> fanatic religions in every disaster that happens in the world.  Did
> Hurricane Matthew destroy Haiti because of USA military too?  Was it
> lack of faith? Aff...  :(((
> 
> Governments, corrupt politicians are the evil.  Not only USA
> government, but ALL the governments, Russian included.

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[xorcist]

> Your lack of specificity as a way to keep trolling the convo has been
> noted over and over and over again by Juan.

Right. Because calling you out with a specific year which negates your
statement is a lack of specificity.

Why not just address the point about Stalin, and forced work camps for
homosexuals, starting in 1933?

>
> Are you too stupid to notice you've been (snigger) outed?

Are you too stupid to realize that you're wrong? Or too much of a
socialist ideologue to prevent anything as optional as facts to sway your
view?

>
> AFAICT you're just collecting info to profile people for the Feds'
> social engineering ops.

Right. Because people with minds as powerful and acute as yours, which
fail to even be able to address points of fact, are such a threat to the
world order. And more generally, anyone that disagrees with you at all,
must be an agent of the state.

You might like to read up on self-supporting, delusory belief systems and
brain-washing. Witnessing the general ineffectiveness of government-run
programs generally, it is doubtful whether a State-run COINTELPRO-type op
could be as effective as your own self-induced state of hypnosis.

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[Razer]

Your lack of specificity as a way to keep trolling the convo has been
noted over and over and over again by Juan.

Are you too stupid to notice you've been (snigger) outed?

AFAICT you're just collecting info to profile people for the Feds'
social engineering ops.

Rr


On 10/09/2016 10:27 AM, xorc...@sigaint.org wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 10/09/2016 09:52 AM, xorc...@sigaint.org wrote:
>>>
>>> Your assertion about Russian in 1917 was false. Period.
>>
>>
>> No it wasn't. By your own statement
> 
> You said "AND my POINT is THERE ARE NO DISCRIMINATORY LEGAL POLICIES and
> haven't been since 1917."
> 
> That is patently false. What I agreed to in the portion you quote is that
> Lenin, in 1917 instituted fair practices. You are right about that.
> However your statement is WRONG in regards to the "haven't been SINCE
> 1917."
> 
> In 1933, Stalin made homosexuality a crime.
> 
> Period. You're wrong. And it is obvious to anyone with basic reading
> comprehension, which you clearly lack.
> 
>>
>>> The Russian Revolution in 1917 did bring about real change in
>>> that way. Under Lenin, homosexuals were allowed to serve in government
>>> positions, for example. HOWEVER.
>>>
>>> In 1933
>>
>>
>> Troll, begone.
> 
> Fascist, Stalin-loving troglodyte - begone.
> 

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[xorcist]

>
>
> On 10/09/2016 09:52 AM, xorc...@sigaint.org wrote:
>>
>> Your assertion about Russian in 1917 was false. Period.
>
>
> No it wasn't. By your own statement

You said "AND my POINT is THERE ARE NO DISCRIMINATORY LEGAL POLICIES and
haven't been since 1917."

That is patently false. What I agreed to in the portion you quote is that
Lenin, in 1917 instituted fair practices. You are right about that.
However your statement is WRONG in regards to the "haven't been SINCE
1917."

In 1933, Stalin made homosexuality a crime.

Period. You're wrong. And it is obvious to anyone with basic reading
comprehension, which you clearly lack.

>
>> The Russian Revolution in 1917 did bring about real change in
>> that way. Under Lenin, homosexuals were allowed to serve in government
>> positions, for example. HOWEVER.
>>
>> In 1933
>
>
> Troll, begone.

Fascist, Stalin-loving troglodyte - begone.

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[Razer]

On 10/09/2016 09:52 AM, xorc...@sigaint.org wrote:
> 
>>
>> You changed the topic. You lose.
> 
> Your assertion about Russian in 1917 was false. Period.


No it wasn't. By your own statement

> The Russian Revolution in 1917 did bring about real change in
> that way. Under Lenin, homosexuals were allowed to serve in government
> positions, for example. HOWEVER.
> 
> In 1933


Troll, begone.

Rr

> 
> You then picked up by ignoring that basic point, where you were wrong, and
> focusing on one dubious point claiming that a discriminatory law isn't
> discriminatory because... reasons. Some 'reason' somehow related to some
> other law related to material in regards to prostitution.
> 
> YOU CHANGED the topic from homosexuality, and issues related to it - to
> bringing up prostitution.
> 
> So, if a tangential point somehow makes you "lose" .. then, you lose on
> three points, rather than just two. Congratulations:
> 
> 1. Your assertion regarding the Russian Revolution in 1917, and its
> effects on homosexuals was wrong.
> 
> 2. You lack the basic intellectual honesty to even address the point
> regarding Stalin in 1933.
> 
> 3. YOU tangentially brought up prostitution, and laws related to
> propaganda against it, instead of focusing on the real point: Stalin.
> 1933.
> 
> 
> 

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[Cecilia Tanaka]

On Oct 9, 2016 12:32 PM, "Razer"  wrote:
>
> Human Rights Watch is PROUD of it's association with George Soros.
>
> "George Soros to Give $100 million to Human Rights Watch"
>
https://www.hrw.org/news/2010/09/07/george-soros-give-100-million-human-rights-watch
>
> I'll bet you believe everything you read and NEVER bother to validate the
source of your information..

I do read, but I admiss I don't search with more care about institutions
that I like, in all moments, in all the news.  Sorry for the bad example
posted.  I usually appreciate a lot the work realized for the Hamans Rights
Watch.

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[Cecilia Tanaka]

Razer, my dear,

You _mixed_ my message and Xorcist's message.  There a lot of things that I
did _not_ write, which were mentioned in your answer.

And the way you answered to it, using my address as unique reference, can
induce the readers in mistake.  Read again the messages, please.
On Oct 9, 2016 12:28 PM, "Razer"  wrote:

>
>
> On 10/08/2016 09:50 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
> > It is the sad reality.
>
>
> You're still NOT making a case for the Russian government legislating
> homophobic polices.
>
> What X mentioned: "law banning distribution of "propaganda
> of non-traditional sexual relationships" to minors." isn't.
>
> And the rest: "Following its passage, there has been increased
> discrimination against gays, and increased protests. In 2013 the USA
> received over 800 asylum requests from homosexuals in Russia."
>
> Welp! THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE FUCKING "CONVERSATION" GETS STARTED!
>
> Reactionary behavior.
>
> Thanks for making my point X.
>
> Rr
>

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[xorcist]

> Better start looking through Russian laws about 'sexual-oriented
> propaganda'. Because, just off the top of my head, for a start, material
> suggesting young people visit prostitutes of the opposite gender is
> illegal.

Fine. But prostitution is illegal. That has nothing to do with outlawing
propaganda aimed at providing information about an theoretically "legal"
lifestyle like homosexuality. Is propaganda suggesting they get married to
the opposite sex, and have a pair of kids illegal? Is propaganda
suggesting that homosexuality is a choice, and that they can choose a
"normal" life illegal? If not, the law as written is discriminatory.

I'm quite willing to concede that there may be details that make this law
non-discriminatory. From what I know, this isn't the case. But I'm willing
to learn about other Russian laws that may come to bear on this.

But again. That isn't even my point, per se. Because I'm quite willing to
concede that life for homosexuals is better in Russia now, than in 1933
under Stalin.

>
> But I KNOW you're evading my point because that's what you do. That's
> ALL you do.

No. You're evading the point about Stalin, and aren't even capable of
simply offering a retraction saying "Ok, I didn't know about Stalin's
actions post-1917. Stalin was shithead, and I was wrong."

>
> Rr
>
>
>>
>> But the law is written, and intended, so that heterosexual propaganda
>> can
>> be distributed to homosexual kids.
>>
>> It's discrimination.
>>
>>> Thanks for making my point X.
>>
>> Actually, my point was that you were wrong in your assertion that things
>> were A-OK for homosexuals in Russia since 1917. That is what you
>> claimed.
>>
>> You completely ignored my point about Stalin in '33.
>>
>> So, no I didn't make your point at all.
>>
>

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[Razer]

On 10/09/2016 08:50 AM, xorc...@sigaint.org wrote:
>>
>> What X mentioned: "law banning distribution of "propaganda
>> of non-traditional sexual relationships" to minors." isn't.
> 
> Oh? Care to explain or should we just take your word for it? Because it
> seems to me that a law that makes a DISCRIMINATION between one type of
> material and another is, obviously, discriminatory. If it outlaws
> distributing ANY type of sexual-oriented propaganda to minors, I would
> agree with you.

Better start looking through Russian laws about 'sexual-oriented
propaganda'. Because, just off the top of my head, for a start, material
suggesting young people visit prostitutes of the opposite gender is illegal.

But I KNOW you're evading my point because that's what you do. That's
ALL you do.

Rr


> 
> But the law is written, and intended, so that heterosexual propaganda can
> be distributed to homosexual kids.
> 
> It's discrimination.
> 
>> Thanks for making my point X.
> 
> Actually, my point was that you were wrong in your assertion that things
> were A-OK for homosexuals in Russia since 1917. That is what you claimed.
> 
> You completely ignored my point about Stalin in '33.
> 
> So, no I didn't make your point at all.
> 

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[xorcist]

>
> What X mentioned: "law banning distribution of "propaganda
> of non-traditional sexual relationships" to minors." isn't.

Oh? Care to explain or should we just take your word for it? Because it
seems to me that a law that makes a DISCRIMINATION between one type of
material and another is, obviously, discriminatory. If it outlaws
distributing ANY type of sexual-oriented propaganda to minors, I would
agree with you.

But the law is written, and intended, so that heterosexual propaganda can
be distributed to homosexual kids.

It's discrimination.

> Thanks for making my point X.

Actually, my point was that you were wrong in your assertion that things
were A-OK for homosexuals in Russia since 1917. That is what you claimed.

You completely ignored my point about Stalin in '33.

So, no I didn't make your point at all.

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[Razer]

Human Rights Watch is PROUD of it's association with George Soros.

"George Soros to Give $100 million to Human Rights Watch"
https://www.hrw.org/news/2010/09/07/george-soros-give-100-million-human-rights-watch

I'll bet you believe everything you read and NEVER bother to validate
the source of your information..

Rr

On 10/09/2016 03:58 AM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
> * Human Rights Watch  -  published in January, 2016:
> 
> * Jail Time for Being Gay in Russia
> 
> https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/01/14/dispatches-jail-time-being-gay-russia
> 
> *  Russia to debate banning all public displays of affection between gay
> people  (January, 2016)
> 
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russian-duma-to-debate-banning-all-public-displays-of-affection-between-gay-people-a6817196.html
> 
> *  Russia Gay Propaganda Ban: Speaking in Defense of Gay Rights Now a
> Crime in Putin's Russia
> 
> https://mic.com/articles/48017/russia-gay-propaganda-ban-speaking-in-defense-of-gay-rights-now-a-crime-in-putin-s-russia#.RCWPG4PkH
> 
> *  There a lot of links, but I won't have time to copy and paste all the
> references, because I'll need to leave, sorry. 
> 
> These links are extracted in few minutes from a simple search on Google,
> first page.  If you search on specific sites of defense of GLBTQ culture
> or Human Rights Watch, you will find more interesting material and
> several horrible depoiments about what means to be gay in Russia.
> 

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[Razer]

On 10/08/2016 09:50 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
> It is the sad reality. 


You're still NOT making a case for the Russian government legislating
homophobic polices.

What X mentioned: "law banning distribution of "propaganda
of non-traditional sexual relationships" to minors." isn't.

And the rest: "Following its passage, there has been increased
discrimination against gays, and increased protests. In 2013 the USA
received over 800 asylum requests from homosexuals in Russia."

Welp! THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE FUCKING "CONVERSATION" GETS STARTED!

Reactionary behavior.

Thanks for making my point X.

Rr

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[Razer]

On 10/09/2016 05:43 AM, Marina Brown wrote:
> wake up and face reality.


I stopped right there.

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[Marina Brown]

On 10/08/2016 11:33 PM, Razer wrote:
> 
> 
> On 10/08/2016 08:07 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
>> On Oct 8, 2016 10:04 PM, "Razer" > > wrote:
>>>
>>> Russia doesn't have any "homophobic policies". Russians know that. 
>> That's why the Soros foundation and other western LGBT orgs (the kind
>> that consider Chelsea Manning not worthy of an honorary place at the SF
>> Pride Parade for instance) efforts to promote "LGBT rights" falls on
>> deaf ears and is pretty much ignored.
>>>
>>> Not caring who loves or fucks who and thinking it shouldn't be dinner
>> table conversation because there's nothing to really talk isn't
>> Homophobia. Do you understand that? Promoting that conversation
>> indicates an agenda. An agenda that isn't in the interest of LGBTs of
>> Russia. Kapiche?
>>
>> --
>> Scusami, ma veramente non lo capisco, Razer.  One of my Russian friends
>> and his boyfriend were almost dead when kissing and demonstrating
>> affection in public. 
>>
>> The police did with the both guys exactly what my first rapist did with
>> me:  strong kicks in the head and the whole body.  We stepped on our
>> bodies.  In the middle of the legs too.  I was burned with cigarretes 
>> there.  My friends not, but they receiveid lots of kicks in the
>> scrotum.  You probably can imagine how being kicked in the balls is painful.
> 
> 
> You started talking about you gay friends then it was a about you. OK...
> But you've failed to respond to my point. The police in the US kill
> black people, take bribes, rape women, but that's NOT legitimate
> government policy. There's footage on the web of a couple of Moscow cops
> with a transvestite in the car for some reason. They release her and
> then crack up laughing. Take your pick. Some cops are thugs. Some think
> TVs and gayfolk are unusual and funny, but most Russians simply don't
> care, AND my POINT is THERE ARE NO DISCRIMINATORY LEGAL POLICIES and
> haven't been since 1917.
> 
> What a couple of pigs did to your gay friends is pretty irrelevant to
> laws regarding being gay in Russia. There are none. There ARE right wing
> reactionaries though. They tend to be cops. In the US too.
> 
> Soros and co's LGBT 'rights' plan won't solve that. It would most likely
> bring on REACTION. As in REACTIONARY.
> 
> Besises. All scum like Soros are interested in is opening up markets.
> 
> Been to any Gay Pride Parades recently? In the US it IS a hot market,
> and affluent, and you an find EVERYTHING branded for Gay folk.
> 
> You want that kind of liberation? Trick question... It ISN'T liberation.
> Liberation means freedom to do what you want without interference and
> the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT of Russia doesn't.
> 
> Rr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>
>> Gays couples used to live with fear in Russia and Putin's homophobic
>> politicies make being gay there almost a crime, with no serious
>> investigations about their homicides and agressions, everything happens
>> with the State convenience. 
>>
>> It's enough for making me consider this situation unfair, illogical. 
>> That was the reason why they both run away and live in another country
>> now.  They still love Russia and miss their country, their families, but
>> want to walking around, hand in hand, kissing each other, without being
>> judged and killed just for loving.
>>
>> Sorry, my love, fuck politics and politicians.  I want justice.  Not a
>> beautiful gay pride parade once a year.  I want LGBTQ rights all the days.
>>
> 

Razer, wake up and face reality. Places like Russia or Poland are VERY
dangerous for LGBT. As a TS woman i have avoided going to Poland to
visit family because of very real, perhaps mortal danger from
reactionaries. Laws are irrelevant. If the reactionaries beat you up and
leave you for dead it's a problem. It does not matter if they are
drunken thugs with or without badges, though the ones with the badges
are the worst.

--- Marina



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[Cecilia Tanaka]

On Oct 9, 2016 2:10 AM, "juan"  wrote:
>
> I don't know what 'neurotic' means. I do know the ABC of
political theory though.

Definition of neurotic:  http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/neurotic

> So go ahead. Do your homework =)

I will learn something more useful for me than hating the USA, Juan.  I am
finishing the reading of an interesting book named "Speaking Code: Coding
as Aesthetic and Political Expression" and I am thinking about new
eletronics projects for making children laughing in the Halloween.

Candies, electronics and happy kids make me feel blessed for still being
alive.  Politics and corrupt and hypocrite politicians make me strongly
wish the suicide again.  Do you understand the difference?  :)

I am tired of pompous people auto-denominating themselves "activists",
speaking and writing millions of empty words, without saying something
really relevant, like Zenaan, for example, always does.  I want to code and
to create new ideas, to make new things.  I want to learn and I always said
it since the beggining.

I am still reading all the suggested bibliography about Anarchism and I am
really grateful for all the wonderful references, but I am making _my own
interpretations_ of all the texts.  I am my own cat and all the places are
mine, do you remember?  I make my own choices, wrong or not.

I always read several books and texts at same time and, it definitely isn't
practical, but makes me happy.  It's fun to think about cute pink unicorns
and how to destroy governments at same time.

I prefer learn how to coding well than the ABC of political theory, if it
will make me a neurotic, who will see USA, military forces or fanatic
religions in every disaster that happens in the world.  Did Hurricane
Matthew destroy Haiti because of USA military too?  Was it lack of faith?
Aff...  :(((

Governments, corrupt politicians are the evil.  Not only USA government,
but ALL the governments, Russian included.

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[Cecilia Tanaka]

* Human Rights Watch  -  published in January, 2016:

* Jail Time for Being Gay in Russia

https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/01/14/dispatches-jail-time-being-gay-russia

*  Russia to debate banning all public displays of affection between gay
people  (January, 2016)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russian-duma-to-debate-banning-all-public-displays-of-affection-between-gay-people-a6817196.html

*  Russia Gay Propaganda Ban: Speaking in Defense of Gay Rights Now a Crime
in Putin's Russia

https://mic.com/articles/48017/russia-gay-propaganda-ban-speaking-in-defense-of-gay-rights-now-a-crime-in-putin-s-russia#.RCWPG4PkH

*  There a lot of links, but I won't have time to copy and paste all the
references, because I'll need to leave, sorry.

These links are extracted in few minutes from a simple search on Google,
first page.  If you search on specific sites of defense of GLBTQ culture or
Human Rights Watch, you will find more interesting material and several
horrible depoiments about what means to be gay in Russia.

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[John Newman]

I feel a +100 from Alex coming on

random links: 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Russia

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/09/28/putin-condemns-homophobia-supports-lgbt-rights/amp/

It seems fairly nuanced. I have no idea which country, US or Russia, is more 
tolerant taken  on the whole... the few gay friends I had in central TX never 
had any problems (that they spoke of to me), and it's the same in the north 
eastern US. But surely worse in other areas.

I do agree both countries are shit or "every one is bad", in most other 
important areas. E.g. the nations are each fucked up militaristic murderous 
entities, run by a small cabal of elites more interested in money and power 
than peace or the welfare of their people and the world.


John

sent by phone - pardon the formatting

> On Oct 9, 2016, at 1:19 AM, juan  wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 9 Oct 2016 01:54:01 -0300
> Cecilia Tanaka  wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> Always remember that military forces of all the countries work to
>> their governments, to politicians.
> 
>I don't think you are in a position to teach how to look at
>this =)
> 
>So, go ahead, Do your homework about the US. And spare me the
>"every one is bad" line. 
> 
> 
> 
>
> 
> 
> 

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[juan]

On Sun, 9 Oct 2016 01:54:01 -0300
Cecilia Tanaka  wrote:


> 
> Always remember that military forces of all the countries work to
> their governments, to politicians.

I don't think you are in a position to teach how to look at
this =)

So, go ahead, Do your homework about the US. And spare me the
"every one is bad" line. 

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[juan]

On Sun, 9 Oct 2016 01:50:53 -0300
Cecilia Tanaka  wrote:

> On Oct 9, 2016 1:40 AM, "juan"  wrote:
> >
> > Accusing the russians or anybody else of being 'homophobic'
> > is
> crass, american, war propaganda. It's not hard to understand.
> 
> Russian policies are being homophobic and it is being discussed for
> several years. 

Yes of course. Pentagon propaganda has been going for 'several
years' .


> It isn't simple "American propaganda". 

It is.
 

> It is the sad
> reality. Search about the Russian laws before saying everything is a
> North-American lie.
> 
> Being neurotic about North-Americans can make you blind to the truth,
> Juan.  

I don't know what 'neurotic' means. I do know the ABC of
political theory though. 



> North-American politicians are trash and the Russians are the
> same trash.  Both stink.
> 
> > But in the case of the current amerikunt 'cold' war against
> > russia it is especially crass.
> >
> > If you don't understand you should really do your homework
> > regarding soros and the US military.


So go ahead. Do your homework =)

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[Cecilia Tanaka]

On Oct 9, 2016 1:50 AM, "Cecilia Tanaka"  wrote:
>
> On Oct 9, 2016 1:40 AM, "juan"  wrote:
> >
> > Accusing the russians or anybody else of being 'homophobic' is
crass, american, war propaganda. It's not hard to understand.
>
> Russian policies are being homophobic and it is being discussed for
several years.  It isn't simple "American propaganda".  It is the sad
reality.  Search about the Russian laws before saying everything is a
North-American lie.
>
> Being neurotic about North-Americans can make you blind to the truth,
Juan.  North-American politicians are trash and the Russians are the same
trash.  Both stink.

Always remember that military forces of all the countries work to their
governments, to politicians.

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[Cecilia Tanaka]

On Oct 9, 2016 1:40 AM, "juan"  wrote:
>
> Accusing the russians or anybody else of being 'homophobic' is
crass, american, war propaganda. It's not hard to understand.

Russian policies are being homophobic and it is being discussed for several
years.  It isn't simple "American propaganda".  It is the sad reality.
Search about the Russian laws before saying everything is a North-American
lie.

Being neurotic about North-Americans can make you blind to the truth,
Juan.  North-American politicians are trash and the Russians are the same
trash.  Both stink.

> But in the case of the current amerikunt 'cold' war against
> russia it is especially crass.
>
> If you don't understand you should really do your homework
> regarding soros and the US military.

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[Cecilia Tanaka]

On Oct 9, 2016 12:33 AM, "Razer"  wrote:
>
> Been to any Gay Pride Parades recently? In the US it IS a hot market, and
affluent, and you an find EVERYTHING branded for Gay folk.

I go to Parade all the years, dear.  Here, in my country, it became a
fabulous party, a gorgeous Carnival with music, joy, glitter and happy
laughs, but no much activism, for being sincere.  :-/

Our GLBTQ Pride Parade was elected the best of the world sometimes and and
the biggest of the world for the Guiness Book of Records, but, you know,
North-Americans don't care about numbers if they are not the best and the
bigger.  That usual 'ego trip' thing, aff...  :(

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/São_Paulo_Gay_Pride_Parade

Well, in any case, it is always fun and I make a fabulous make up  (glitter
and colors)  and sometimes dress like a ballet dancer, a geisha, an anime
or a drag queen.  Or use jeans and t-shirt.  Everything is permissed!  <3

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[John Newman]

> On Oct 8, 2016, at 8:05 PM, Cecilia Tanaka  wrote:
> 
> On Oct 8, 2016 6:17 PM, "John Newman"  > wrote:
> >
> >> On Oct 8, 2016, at 9:07 AM, Cecilia Tanaka  >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> http://superputin.win 
> >
> >
> > LOL.. this is fucking hilarious.  
> >
> > I wish there was an English version….   maybe Zen will translate :)
> 
> Try this version, John:
> 
> http://9gag.com/gag/aVzA8XO/super-putin-episode-1-the-phantom-menace 
>  
Perfect, thanks! The art actually isn’t bad.  


John

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[Razer]

On 10/08/2016 08:07 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
> On Oct 8, 2016 10:04 PM, "Razer"  > wrote:
>>
>> Russia doesn't have any "homophobic policies". Russians know that. 
> That's why the Soros foundation and other western LGBT orgs (the kind
> that consider Chelsea Manning not worthy of an honorary place at the SF
> Pride Parade for instance) efforts to promote "LGBT rights" falls on
> deaf ears and is pretty much ignored.
>>
>> Not caring who loves or fucks who and thinking it shouldn't be dinner
> table conversation because there's nothing to really talk isn't
> Homophobia. Do you understand that? Promoting that conversation
> indicates an agenda. An agenda that isn't in the interest of LGBTs of
> Russia. Kapiche?
> 
> --
> Scusami, ma veramente non lo capisco, Razer.  One of my Russian friends
> and his boyfriend were almost dead when kissing and demonstrating
> affection in public. 
> 
> The police did with the both guys exactly what my first rapist did with
> me:  strong kicks in the head and the whole body.  We stepped on our
> bodies.  In the middle of the legs too.  I was burned with cigarretes 
> there.  My friends not, but they receiveid lots of kicks in the
> scrotum.  You probably can imagine how being kicked in the balls is painful.


You started talking about you gay friends then it was a about you. OK...
But you've failed to respond to my point. The police in the US kill
black people, take bribes, rape women, but that's NOT legitimate
government policy. There's footage on the web of a couple of Moscow cops
with a transvestite in the car for some reason. They release her and
then crack up laughing. Take your pick. Some cops are thugs. Some think
TVs and gayfolk are unusual and funny, but most Russians simply don't
care, AND my POINT is THERE ARE NO DISCRIMINATORY LEGAL POLICIES and
haven't been since 1917.

What a couple of pigs did to your gay friends is pretty irrelevant to
laws regarding being gay in Russia. There are none. There ARE right wing
reactionaries though. They tend to be cops. In the US too.

Soros and co's LGBT 'rights' plan won't solve that. It would most likely
bring on REACTION. As in REACTIONARY.

Besises. All scum like Soros are interested in is opening up markets.

Been to any Gay Pride Parades recently? In the US it IS a hot market,
and affluent, and you an find EVERYTHING branded for Gay folk.

You want that kind of liberation? Trick question... It ISN'T liberation.
Liberation means freedom to do what you want without interference and
the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT of Russia doesn't.

Rr





> 
> Gays couples used to live with fear in Russia and Putin's homophobic
> politicies make being gay there almost a crime, with no serious
> investigations about their homicides and agressions, everything happens
> with the State convenience. 
> 
> It's enough for making me consider this situation unfair, illogical. 
> That was the reason why they both run away and live in another country
> now.  They still love Russia and miss their country, their families, but
> want to walking around, hand in hand, kissing each other, without being
> judged and killed just for loving.
> 
> Sorry, my love, fuck politics and politicians.  I want justice.  Not a
> beautiful gay pride parade once a year.  I want LGBTQ rights all the days.
> 

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[Cecilia Tanaka]

On Oct 9, 2016 12:07 AM, "Cecilia Tanaka"  wrote:

> --
>  We stepped on our bodies.

Sorry, I was trying "they", not "we".

All my bones are considered very, very strong for all the doctors.  Calcium
and sun.  One of the guys had not the same luck.

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[Razer]

On 10/08/2016 04:32 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
> On Oct 8, 2016 6:17 PM, "John Newman"  > wrote:
>>
>>> On Oct 8, 2016, at 9:07 AM, Cecilia Tanaka  > wrote:
>>>
>>> http://superputin.win
>>
>> LOL.. this is fucking hilarious.  
>>
>> I wish there was an English version….   maybe Zen will translate :)
> 
> Zenaan doesn't speak Russian, but I can print him a wonderful "Putin
> butt plug" as reward, if he tries the translation bravely enough!  <3
> 
> http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/vladimir-putin-sex-toy-popular-3943414
> 
> The butt plug was printed used a 3D printing.  I can contact the
> designer to use his art and print this model of "Putin sexual toy" here,
> in my own country.
> 
> It was created for GLBTQ activists furious with *Russia's homophobic
> policies*, for protest against Putin and "put in" him in cozy, warm
> places.  Awww...  Peaceful protests are lovely!  <3
> 
> sea  sea
> 

Russia doesn't have any "homophobic policies". Russians know that.
That's why the Soros foundation and other western LGBT orgs (the kind
that consider Chelsea Manning not worthy of an honorary place at the SF
Pride Parade for instance) efforts to promote "LGBT rights" falls on
deaf ears and is pretty much ignored.

Not caring who loves or fucks who and thinking it shouldn't be dinner
table conversation because there's nothing to really talk isn't
Homophobia. Do you understand that? Promoting that conversation
indicates an agenda. An agenda that isn't in the interest of LGBTs of
Russia. Kapiche?

Rr

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[Cecilia Tanaka]

On Oct 8, 2016 6:17 PM, "John Newman"  wrote:
>
>> On Oct 8, 2016, at 9:07 AM, Cecilia Tanaka 
wrote:
>>
>> http://superputin.win
>
>
> LOL.. this is fucking hilarious.
>
> I wish there was an English version….   maybe Zen will translate :)

Try this version, John:

http://9gag.com/gag/aVzA8XO/super-putin-episode-1-the-phantom-menace

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[Cecilia Tanaka]

On Oct 8, 2016 6:17 PM, "John Newman"  wrote:
>
>> On Oct 8, 2016, at 9:07 AM, Cecilia Tanaka 
wrote:
>>
>> http://superputin.win
>
> LOL.. this is fucking hilarious.
>
> I wish there was an English version….   maybe Zen will translate :)

Zenaan doesn't speak Russian, but I can print him a wonderful "Putin butt
plug" as reward, if he tries the translation bravely enough!  <3

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/vladimir-putin-sex-toy-popular-3943414

The butt plug was printed used a 3D printing.  I can contact the designer
to use his art and print this model of "Putin sexual toy" here, in my own
country.

It was created for GLBTQ activists furious with *Russia's homophobic
policies*, for protest against Putin and "put in" him in cozy, warm
places.  Awww...  Peaceful protests are lovely!  <3

sea  sea

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[John Newman]

> On Oct 8, 2016, at 9:07 AM, Cecilia Tanaka  wrote:
> 
> I am a comics addicted since my early years, but reading "SuperPutin wins" 
> can melt my brain and make me completely blind to all Russian's politicians 
> fails.  I will become a verbose socketpuppet, non-stop talking about Russia 
> in mailing lists and groups of discussion...  :(
> 
> http://superputin.win 
LOL.. this is fucking hilarious.  

I wish there was an English version….   maybe Zen will translate :)


John

Re: [WAR] George Soros calls on world to unite against Vladimir Putin

[Александр]

2016-10-08 13:37 GMT+03:00 Zenaan Harkness :

> George Soros smells war, blood, and profits. Calls on world to unite
> against Vladimir Putin
> http://theduran.com/george-soros-smells-war-blood-
> profits-calls-world-to-unite-against-vladimir-putin/
>

Oh, Zen, they are so fucken desperate... so desperate... sometimes it
doesn't even make me angry, but starts amusing me :P :D

Poor poor uSSa. Poor poor bloody oligarchs & other satanists. Your
desperation makes us (sometimes) laugh to tears.