Re: [darktable-user] Almost perfect colors with Nikon D7200 and Darktable

[Saint Germain]

On Fri, 28 Oct 2016 09:52:40 +0200 (CEST), "Tomas Sobek"
 wrote :


> "I was also unsatisfied with the rendered color with my D7200 and I
> also bought the IT8 target and the Colormunki Display to try to
> correct them. "
> 
> 
> Having calibrated your monitor is a good start. This way you should
> see on screen a reasonable representation of your image, similar to
> how other people with calibrated screens will see it.
> 
> 
> 
> As for the camera input profile, I was often tweaking green tint in
> white balance settings in the past. This was my primary motivation,
> to see if I can get a better starting point with less work. I used
> the profiles I shared on a few occasions (all outdoors) and they seem
> to be working reasonably well for me. If I were to shoot in difficult
> light situation, I carry with me ColourChecker Passport and I would
> take a shot of it in that specific light. Then create a profile
> specific to this situation as I described in this article
> (https://tomassobekphotography.co.nz/articles/create-camera-input-profile-with-ColorChecker-Passport.php)
> - Once you have things setup, it only takes a few minutes.
> 
> 
> "Are you using your color profile on top of a base curve ?"
> I am using the camera input profile only to alter relationships
> between colours (hence using Linear Rec709 RGB input/output profiles
> when processing target shot during the profile creation). I still
> apply base curve and all the other adjustments to produce an image I
> like. With landscape photography there is a lot of scope to balance
> dark and bright parts of the image (graduated density filter for
> bright sky for example). Another of my favourites is zone system, or
> subtle tweaks with levels on parts of the image (I learned that
> technique from this ebook
> (https://resources.digital-photography-school.com/download/landscapes-book/)
> ).
> 
> "For example:
> - JPG: http://dl.free.fr/oveYkaeh3
> - NEF: http://dl.free.fr/g2xLlF4lQ
> 
> ""In the above example, pay attention to the white wall on the left
> and the color of the head of the bed (light brown).
> I haven't managed to correct the colors in order to have something
> like the JPEG (which gives the correct color as I see it with my own
> eyes). "
> I tried a quick edit of your image to get reasonably close (without
> being pedantic) to the Jpeg from camera. I have included both
> resulting Jpeg and xmp file here
> - https://www.dropbox.com/s/1nzicnmuaazhule/DSC_4860.zip?dl=0
> (https://www.dropbox.com/s/1nzicnmuaazhule/DSC_4860.zip?dl=0) -
> Primarily I used spot white balance on lighter grey patches of IT8
> target, then turned colour temperature a bit down. Increase exposure.
> A bit less saturation and some noise reduction; at ISO 2000 the image
> seems to have a lot of noise to my liking. Your lens wasn't
> recognised on my system so I couldn't apply lens correction.
> 
> I hope you find my comments useful. But I don't claim to have much 
> experience - I am just learning as I go ;)
> Cheers, Tomas
> 

Thanks for the attempt !
However my point was that I couldn't make such effort for each picture
as it is consuming too much time (especially when the JPEG gives
accurate color directly).
I was (naively) hoping that I could find a 'generic' processing with
Darktable which can be applicable on all NEF and gives 'good enough'
result, but that it is simply not working.
For many pictures, I find myself having to individually work on them
and I simply don't have the time and motivation.

So I ended up just working with the Nikon JPEG and only in some extreme
cases, I am using Darktable.

I'm even considering changing my camera to have one which gives better
default results in Darktable !

Best regards,

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Re: [darktable-user] Almost perfect colors with Nikon D7200 and Darktable

[Saint Germain]

On Thu, 27 Oct 2016 08:04:14 +0200 (CEST), "Tomas Sobek"
 wrote :

> Hi,
> Just in case anyone is still interested in this thread, I have
> written up some thoughts and experiences with creating camera input
> profiles:
> 
> * My version of the procedure as per video below, but with newer
> Darktable version. Also ensuring the colour profiles created are well
> behaved (see
> http://ninedegreesbelow.com/photography/well-behaved-profile.html ).
> * Experiences from following Elle Stone's great tutorial (see
> http://ninedegreesbelow.com/photography/well-behaved-camera-profile.html
> ).
> * Couple of my Nikon D7100 profiles for download.
> 
> My articles are available here -
> https://tomassobekphotography.co.nz/articles.php Please let me know
> if you notice any inaccuracies. Cheers, Tomas
> 

Hello,

Thanks for the info.
I see that we had a similar approach.
I was also unsatisfied with the rendered color with my D7200 and I also
bought the IT8 target and the Colormunki Display to try to correct them.

I have more or less given up on the issue and adopted this approach:
https://www.mail-archive.com/darktable-user@lists.darktable.org/msg01213.html

As D7100 and D7200 are more or less the same, I've tried your color
input profiles but I haven't managed to get any improvement with my
difficult shots (inside shot mainly).

For example:
  - JPG: http://dl.free.fr/oveYkaeh3
  - NEF: http://dl.free.fr/g2xLlF4lQ

In the above example, pay attention to the white wall on the left and
the color of the head of the bed (light brown).
I haven't managed to correct the colors in order to have something like
the JPEG (which gives the correct color as I see it with my own eyes).

Are you using your color profile on top of a base curve ?

Thanks for your interesting article and for this message.
I feel a little less alone !


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Re: [darktable-user] Almost perfect colors with Nikon D7200 and Darktable

[Tomas Sobek]

Hi,
Just in case anyone is still interested in this thread, I have written up some 
thoughts and experiences with creating camera input profiles:

* My version of the procedure as per video below, but with newer Darktable 
version. Also ensuring the colour profiles created are well behaved (see 
http://ninedegreesbelow.com/photography/well-behaved-profile.html ).
* Experiences from following Elle Stone's great tutorial (see 
http://ninedegreesbelow.com/photography/well-behaved-camera-profile.html ).
* Couple of my Nikon D7100 profiles for download.

My articles are available here - 
https://tomassobekphotography.co.nz/articles.php
Please let me know if you notice any inaccuracies.
Cheers, Tomas

> I stumbled on the following
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkBgFaSv1kE


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Re: [darktable-user] Almost perfect colors with Nikon D7200 and Darktable

[Colin Adams]

Well, I don't have that problem, as I only photograph dragonflies :-)


On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 at 19:53 Saint Germain  wrote:

> Tried looking at the skin tone of people.
> In my case it is a bit too reddish/pinkish in a lot of situations (but
> not every situation).
>
> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 18:51:15 +, Colin Adams
>  wrote :
>
> > But if I use Nikon D810 base curve instead of neutral, I get a
> > pleasing effect also. Decidedly vivid though.
> >
> > On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 at 19:48 Colin Adams 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hm. I get a nice result with neutral base curve and rgb rec 2020
> > > linear too.
> > >
> > > On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 at 19:25 Saint Germain 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 15:26:53 +, Colin Adams
> > >>  wrote :
> > >>
> > >> > Perhaps making a custom camera input profile, as detailed at
> > >> >
> > >>
> http://ninedegreesbelow.com/photography/camera-profile-make-target-shot.html
> > >> > is worth pursuing?
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> I already tried this approach with tht IT8 target:
> > >> https://github.com/pmjdebruijn/colormatch
> > >> It is more or less the same as the one described on Darktable
> > >> website:
> > >>
> > >>
> https://www.darktable.org/2016/05/colour-manipulation-with-the-colour-checker-lut-module/
> > >>
> > >> The result always has the green tint on it.
> > >>
> > >>
> 
> > >> darktable user mailing list
> > >> to unsubscribe send a mail to
> > >> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> > >>
> > >>
>
> 
> darktable user mailing list
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>


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Re: [darktable-user] Almost perfect colors with Nikon D7200 and Darktable

[Saint Germain]

Tried looking at the skin tone of people.
In my case it is a bit too reddish/pinkish in a lot of situations (but
not every situation).

On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 18:51:15 +, Colin Adams
 wrote :

> But if I use Nikon D810 base curve instead of neutral, I get a
> pleasing effect also. Decidedly vivid though.
> 
> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 at 19:48 Colin Adams 
> wrote:
> 
> > Hm. I get a nice result with neutral base curve and rgb rec 2020
> > linear too.
> >
> > On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 at 19:25 Saint Germain 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 15:26:53 +, Colin Adams
> >>  wrote :
> >>
> >> > Perhaps making a custom camera input profile, as detailed at
> >> >
> >> http://ninedegreesbelow.com/photography/camera-profile-make-target-shot.html
> >> > is worth pursuing?
> >> >
> >>
> >> I already tried this approach with tht IT8 target:
> >> https://github.com/pmjdebruijn/colormatch
> >> It is more or less the same as the one described on Darktable
> >> website:
> >>
> >> https://www.darktable.org/2016/05/colour-manipulation-with-the-colour-checker-lut-module/
> >>
> >> The result always has the green tint on it.
> >>
> >> 
> >> darktable user mailing list
> >> to unsubscribe send a mail to
> >> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> >>
> >>

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Re: [darktable-user] Almost perfect colors with Nikon D7200 and Darktable

[Colin Adams]

But if I use Nikon D810 base curve instead of neutral, I get a pleasing
effect also. Decidedly vivid though.

On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 at 19:48 Colin Adams  wrote:

> Hm. I get a nice result with neutral base curve and rgb rec 2020 linear
> too.
>
> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 at 19:25 Saint Germain  wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 15:26:53 +, Colin Adams
>>  wrote :
>>
>> > Perhaps making a custom camera input profile, as detailed at
>> >
>> http://ninedegreesbelow.com/photography/camera-profile-make-target-shot.html
>> > is worth pursuing?
>> >
>>
>> I already tried this approach with tht IT8 target:
>> https://github.com/pmjdebruijn/colormatch
>> It is more or less the same as the one described on Darktable website:
>>
>> https://www.darktable.org/2016/05/colour-manipulation-with-the-colour-checker-lut-module/
>>
>> The result always has the green tint on it.
>>
>> 
>> darktable user mailing list
>> to unsubscribe send a mail to
>> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>>
>>


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Re: [darktable-user] Almost perfect colors with Nikon D7200 and Darktable

[Colin Adams]

Hm. I get a nice result with neutral base curve and rgb rec 2020 linear too.

On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 at 19:25 Saint Germain  wrote:

> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 15:26:53 +, Colin Adams
>  wrote :
>
> > Perhaps making a custom camera input profile, as detailed at
> >
> http://ninedegreesbelow.com/photography/camera-profile-make-target-shot.html
> > is worth pursuing?
> >
>
> I already tried this approach with tht IT8 target:
> https://github.com/pmjdebruijn/colormatch
> It is more or less the same as the one described on Darktable website:
>
> https://www.darktable.org/2016/05/colour-manipulation-with-the-colour-checker-lut-module/
>
> The result always has the green tint on it.
>
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>
>


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Re: [darktable-user] Almost perfect colors with Nikon D7200 and Darktable

[Colin Adams]

Perhaps making a custom camera input profile, as detailed at
http://ninedegreesbelow.com/photography/camera-profile-make-target-shot.html is
worth pursuing?

On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 at 13:18 Saint Germain  wrote:

> On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 11:41:36 +0200, Matthieu Moy
>  wrote :
>
> > Saint Germain  writes:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > Please see the thread about Nikon and Darktable there:
> > >
> https://www.mail-archive.com/darktable-user@lists.darktable.org/msg00805.html
> >
> > Thanks, I missed this thread indeed.
> >
> > > I managed to get quite good result with my D7200 with the Nikon
> > > input color profile for D7100 given in this thread.
> >
> > That's surprising: on some images the D7100 color profile gives good
> > results at least color-wise, but in many cases it also flattens
> > completely the contrast. I could get a close-to-camera JPEG result by
> > drawing a slightly S-shape base curve manually for one picture, but
> > then it's completely wrong on another one. So, I still don't have a
> > "one fits all" receipe :-(.
>
> Indeed I am also looking for the single recipe which will allow me to
> have a defaut satisfying behavior.
> So far I can say that the JPEG given by Nikon gives a satisfying result
> (far from perfect but acceptable). With Darktable and the different
> presets I have tried, I always have to modify something manually,
> which is taking me too much time.
>
> I have to emphasize again, that I am NOT especially trying to duplicate
> Nikon JPEG. It's just that it gives an acceptable result and it serves
> as a point of reference (especially for color tone) in order to achieve
> at least a similar result with Darktable (because I always have a
> blueish/greenish tint so far).
>
> With the trick to use the .icm profile generated by ViewNX 2/Capture
> NX-D, I agree that the result is a bit "flat" (but with almost correct
> colors). I can of course modify it, but this modification cannot be
> used on another pictures (same problem as you).
>
> Can I offer to try to work on the same set of pictures ?
> I already uploaded an example here (see last comment) :
> https://redmine.darktable.org/issues/11053#note-11
> Perhaps can you also upload somewhere the pictures which are difficult
> to process by Darktable ?
>
> >
> > > Can you generate and upload a .dtstyle that give you good result ?
> >
> > Attached is an XMP file.
> >
> >
>
> This style gives me a rather incorrect result in the example I have
> provided.
>
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>
>


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Re: [darktable-user] Almost perfect colors with Nikon D7200 and Darktable

[Saint Germain]

On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 11:41:36 +0200, Matthieu Moy
 wrote :

> Saint Germain  writes:
> 
> > Hello,
> >
> > Please see the thread about Nikon and Darktable there:
> > https://www.mail-archive.com/darktable-user@lists.darktable.org/msg00805.html
> 
> Thanks, I missed this thread indeed.
> 
> > I managed to get quite good result with my D7200 with the Nikon
> > input color profile for D7100 given in this thread.
> 
> That's surprising: on some images the D7100 color profile gives good
> results at least color-wise, but in many cases it also flattens
> completely the contrast. I could get a close-to-camera JPEG result by
> drawing a slightly S-shape base curve manually for one picture, but
> then it's completely wrong on another one. So, I still don't have a
> "one fits all" receipe :-(.

Indeed I am also looking for the single recipe which will allow me to
have a defaut satisfying behavior.
So far I can say that the JPEG given by Nikon gives a satisfying result
(far from perfect but acceptable). With Darktable and the different
presets I have tried, I always have to modify something manually,
which is taking me too much time.

I have to emphasize again, that I am NOT especially trying to duplicate
Nikon JPEG. It's just that it gives an acceptable result and it serves
as a point of reference (especially for color tone) in order to achieve
at least a similar result with Darktable (because I always have a
blueish/greenish tint so far).

With the trick to use the .icm profile generated by ViewNX 2/Capture
NX-D, I agree that the result is a bit "flat" (but with almost correct
colors). I can of course modify it, but this modification cannot be
used on another pictures (same problem as you).

Can I offer to try to work on the same set of pictures ?
I already uploaded an example here (see last comment) :
https://redmine.darktable.org/issues/11053#note-11
Perhaps can you also upload somewhere the pictures which are difficult
to process by Darktable ?

> 
> > Can you generate and upload a .dtstyle that give you good result ?
> 
> Attached is an XMP file.
> 
> 

This style gives me a rather incorrect result in the example I have
provided.

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Re: [darktable-user] Almost perfect colors with Nikon D7200 and Darktable

[KOVÁCS István]

Hi,

I experience the same thing - Nikon D7000. No matter which input
profile I use (standard, enhanced, and an ICC I have converted from a
RawStudio DCP), no matter which base or tone curve. I don't get the
issue when opening the images in RawTherapee. Ref2020 as an input
profile gives much improved colours. If anyone is interested, I'll
upload several versions (in-camera JPG thumbnail, Darktable,
RawTherapee). Darktable is v2.0.5 from Pascal's PPA, OS is Mint;
display is calibrated (but makes just a small difference, it's quite
close to sRGB, so even without loading the profile colours are
decent). OpenCL enabled/disabled, LittleCMS for output profile
enabled/disabled make no difference in this regard.

Kofa

On 8 July 2016 at 03:25, Saint Germain  wrote:
> I have no idea what I am doing... but it works !
>
> After struggling to get the correct color from my Nikon D7200 with
> Darktable, I finally managed to get a near-perfect result.
>
> It was frustrating because the Nikon JPEG were doing a much better job.
> I even bought an IT8 target to try the colormatch approach:
> https://github.com/pmjdebruijn/colormatch
> https://www.darktable.org/2016/05/colour-manipulation-with-the-colour-checker-lut-module/
>
> The colormatch trick gave me almost the same JPEG as the default
> Darktable (i.e. with a greenish tint).
>
> I almost gave up when I noticed that (while following the colormatch
> procedure) changing the input color profile to "RGB rec2020 linear"
> suddenly got rid of the greenish tint.
>
> So now with a base curve "Neutral" and an input color profile to "RGB
> rec2020 linear", I have almost perfect colors in every conditions (I
> checked on many pictures).
>
> Could someone explain to me what I have done and why it works ?
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>

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Re: [darktable-user] Almost perfect colors with Nikon D7200 and Darktable

[I. Ivanov]

I stumbled on the following
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkBgFaSv1kE
Never tried it but it does talk about rec 2020

Regards,

B

On 16-07-07 06:25 PM, Saint Germain wrote:

I have no idea what I am doing... but it works !

After struggling to get the correct color from my Nikon D7200 with
Darktable, I finally managed to get a near-perfect result.

It was frustrating because the Nikon JPEG were doing a much better job.
I even bought an IT8 target to try the colormatch approach:
https://github.com/pmjdebruijn/colormatch
https://www.darktable.org/2016/05/colour-manipulation-with-the-colour-checker-lut-module/

The colormatch trick gave me almost the same JPEG as the default
Darktable (i.e. with a greenish tint).

I almost gave up when I noticed that (while following the colormatch
procedure) changing the input color profile to "RGB rec2020 linear"
suddenly got rid of the greenish tint.

So now with a base curve "Neutral" and an input color profile to "RGB
rec2020 linear", I have almost perfect colors in every conditions (I
checked on many pictures).

Could someone explain to me what I have done and why it works ?

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[darktable-user] Almost perfect colors with Nikon D7200 and Darktable

[Saint Germain]

I have no idea what I am doing... but it works !

After struggling to get the correct color from my Nikon D7200 with
Darktable, I finally managed to get a near-perfect result.

It was frustrating because the Nikon JPEG were doing a much better job.
I even bought an IT8 target to try the colormatch approach:
https://github.com/pmjdebruijn/colormatch
https://www.darktable.org/2016/05/colour-manipulation-with-the-colour-checker-lut-module/

The colormatch trick gave me almost the same JPEG as the default
Darktable (i.e. with a greenish tint).

I almost gave up when I noticed that (while following the colormatch
procedure) changing the input color profile to "RGB rec2020 linear"
suddenly got rid of the greenish tint.

So now with a base curve "Neutral" and an input color profile to "RGB
rec2020 linear", I have almost perfect colors in every conditions (I
checked on many pictures).

Could someone explain to me what I have done and why it works ?

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