Re: [Dbix-class] A slightly more concrete proposal

[David Golden]

On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 5:33 PM, Peter Rabbitson  wrote:
>> Given that Peter abdicated the right to choose first-come himself
>
> This is not the case. The right was taken away from me, in an unprecedented
> overreach by the PAUSE admins, as summarized by Graham Knop in
> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.modules/2016/10/msg96217.html

I will repeat the language previously used: a unilateral transfer was
unacceptable.

I can understand how Peter might interpret that as a "right taken
away".  However, management of a namespace is not a right.  It is a
privilege delegated by PAUSE administrators to CPAN authors following
certain rules and historical conventions.  (Quite literally, it is
permission to modify certain database tables in PAUSE.)

Further, Peter's prior agreement with Matt at the time of the initial
transfer calls into question whether Peter can, in fact, claim an
exclusive, unilateral privilege to name a successor.

If there is something unprecedented in this situation, it is Peter's
agreement to – and subsequent repudiation of – a permissions transfer
agreement that included a "takeback" clause.

Given Peter's claim that his subsequent work gives him moral authority
to repudiate the agreement, we believe that the community is in the
best position to assess such a claim and ultimately to guide the
future of DBIC.  We are pleased with the engagement to date.

Peter certainly is allowed to propose a successor (either his original
choice or an alternative) and we have repeatedly encouraged him to do
so.  Peter is also an important figure in the project and his voice
should be valued in the selection of new governance and a roadmap for
the future.

If he chooses not to name a successor or participate in discussions
for personal reasons, that is up to him and we encourage people to
respect his boundaries.

Regards,
David

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Re: [Dbix-class] A slightly more concrete proposal

[Darren Duncan]

On 2016-10-08 2:33 PM, Peter Rabbitson wrote:

I have been battling a severe cold, and can't manage to write sufficiently clear
prose. I hope to have David's questions addressed by Monday

However I need to unambiguously address the following right now:

On 10/08/2016 09:33 PM, Darren Duncan wrote:

Given that Peter abdicated the right to choose first-come himself


This is not the case. The right was taken away from me, in an unprecedented
overreach by the PAUSE admins, as summarized by Graham Knop in
http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.modules/2016/10/msg96217.html

I am really unhappy that me choosing to not fight for my rights is seen as
abdication, instead of being an attempt to prevent the project suffering more
damage than it already has.


Peter, by "abdication" I am specifically talking about this comment of yours, 
where you say "I am forfeiting my right to select the next FIRSTCOME".


On 2016-10-07 10:09 AM, Peter Rabbitson wrote:

* I strongly disagree with the PAUSE admins interpretation of my ownership of 
this project, and I strongly believe a procedural overstepping has taken place. 
However, the triggered discussion indicates my leadership is not without 
controversy, and therefore as indicated earlier[7], I am forfeiting my right to 
select the next FIRSTCOME.


But as it seems this isn't the meaning you intended, I retract the comment you 
quoted.



Darren, I understand you are really enthusiastic and have many plans for the
future, but the forcefulness of your latest messages is becoming a distraction
from what is at stake here. Please take a step back and let me address the
questions David has raised.


I apologize that my latest messages have come across as being too forceful and 
that they distract you.


I will do as you say, step back and wait before speaking further.

-- Darren Duncan


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Re: [Dbix-class] A slightly more concrete proposal

[Peter Rabbitson]

I have been battling a severe cold, and can't manage to write 
sufficiently clear prose. I hope to have David's questions addressed by 
Monday


However I need to unambiguously address the following right now:

On 10/08/2016 09:33 PM, Darren Duncan wrote:

Given that Peter abdicated the right to choose first-come himself


This is not the case. The right was taken away from me, in an 
unprecedented overreach by the PAUSE admins, as summarized by Graham 
Knop in http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.modules/2016/10/msg96217.html


I am really unhappy that me choosing to not fight for my rights is seen 
as abdication, instead of being an attempt to prevent the project 
suffering more damage than it already has.


Darren, I understand you are really enthusiastic and have many plans for 
the future, but the forcefulness of your latest messages is becoming a 
distraction from what is at stake here. Please take a step back and let 
me address the questions David has raised.



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Re: [Dbix-class] Traffic pattern changes ahead

[Lasse Makholm]

I think warrants a huge +1! :-)

/L

On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 10:34 PM, Darren Duncan  wrote:
> On 2016-10-07 10:08 AM, Peter Rabbitson wrote:
> 
>>
>> master (dc7d89911b) itself is *in a fully releasable state*. It passes its
>> extensive CI checks. It has also been tested against downstream
>> dependencies
>> extensively as indicated in the commit message of dc7d89911b. With that
>> being
>> said - it is not in a state of completion I would have shipped it myself
>> (what
>> is mainly bugging me are the missing warnings).
>
>
> Thanks a lot for this message!  My primary concern has been addressed by it.
>
> While you didn't yet implement everything you wanted to, the actual work
> that you performed is committed and you consider the codebase to be
> release-ready as is.
>
> Even if you don't do anything else on the codebase, you have then left a
> strong legacy and people will benefit greatly from all the work you did so
> far, which is not wasted.  Also, you did finish many of your checklist items
> 100% even if not all of them.
>
> That being said, I say more power to you where you want to write/commit the
> other pieces that you would prefer to ship, particularly the warnings.
>
> Thanks again for all your work over the years, DBIC users are better for it.
>
> -- Darren Duncan
>
>
>
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Re: [Dbix-class] A slightly more concrete proposal

[Darren Duncan]

On 2016-10-08 7:07 AM, Matt S Trout wrote:

I stand by the
statement that if whoever riba picked comes forward themselves, I'll happily
add their name to my proposal, but if not, I think you lot are going to have
to figure out a way to pick one yourselves, since the whole point of this
slot is to provide a brake on the rest of us.


I, for one, strongly encourage the successor that Peter Rabbitson picked to come 
forward on their own and volunteer their identity.


As this person was hand-picked and has already agreed to do the job of 
stewarding DBIC, they must have an interest in the future of DBIC and want to 
see things done well by it.


Given that Peter abdicated the right to choose first-come himself, I also 
interpret this as that he would be ok with his chosen replacement stepping up on 
their own and announcing themselves, he isn't pushing the button, and making 
their own public offer or proposal to steward the project.


Please speak-up, whomever you are, I think everyone would be happy for you to be 
involved.


Speaking up is not an obligation for you to take the job later, you can still be 
free to continue being involved or change your mind.


But this would help address the elephant in the room, the unknown person 
element.

Thank you in advance.

-- Darren Duncan


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Re: [Dbix-class] A slightly more concrete proposal

[David Golden]

On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Matt S Trout  wrote:

> (3) [snip] Please
> please everybody remember this is a vague draft, you're allowed to propose
> adjustments yourselves, oh and if somebody has a plan they think is better
> then write it up and propose it - if nothing else, a second plan will
> provide for concrete comparisons to refine this one rather than it being
> passed through by default.
>
> (4) Same statement as 3, but with an added point: You don't need to have me
> back either. [snip]

I also want to add that if anyone isn't comfortable replying to the
list with feedback – or is prohibited from replying because of company
confidentiality restrictions – I'm happy to receive private emails and
your feedback will be treated confidentially.  Please just mention
DBIC in the subject line so it stands out in my inbox.

Regards,
David


-- 
David Golden  Twitter/IRC/GitHub: @xdg

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Re: [Dbix-class] A slightly more concrete proposal

[Matt S Trout]

On Tue, Oct 04, 2016 at 08:17:08PM +, Matt S Trout wrote:
> Since people seem to be unsure as to what the alternative to riba's project
> freeze would actually be, let me provide something a little more concrete.

Minor adjustments.

(1) castaway currently holds the SQLT first-come bits and ilmari the SQLA
and DBICSL ones. So I'd propose that if we go with the core team plan then
the DBIC bits get handed to frew.

That way we ended up with an initial core team set up of "the three first
come holders, the project founder, and an arbiter of stability".

(2) As for the arbiter of stability position ... I'm not sure. I wasn't
honestly expecting riba to be quite so closed mouthed there. I stand by the
statement that if whoever riba picked comes forward themselves, I'll happily
add their name to my proposal, but if not, I think you lot are going to have
to figure out a way to pick one yourselves, since the whole point of this
slot is to provide a brake on the rest of us.

(3) This isn't really a third point but I like numbering things: Please
please everybody remember this is a vague draft, you're allowed to propose
adjustments yourselves, oh and if somebody has a plan they think is better
then write it up and propose it - if nothing else, a second plan will
provide for concrete comparisons to refine this one rather than it being
passed through by default.

(4) Same statement as 3, but with an added point: You don't need to have me
back either. Frew's right that I can be kind of an asshole (hell, one of
the reasons I wanted him on this team was because he has a knack for making
me realise I've done it again in time to do something about it), and I've
been mostly gone for a fair few years, and I don't have a concrete vision
here because I was rather expecting riba to do something more sensible than
this so I didn't expect to need one. But I'm happy to try (and there's no
need to reply to fluff my ego if you -are- ok with tolerating me again, I
just don't feel like people whispering 'takeover' later).

-- 
Matt S Trout - Shadowcat Systems - Perl consulting with a commit bit and a clue

http://shadowcat.co.uk/blog/matt-s-trout/   http://twitter.com/shadowcat_mst/

Email me now on mst (at) shadowcat.co.uk and let's chat about how our CPAN
commercial support, training and consultancy packages could help your team.

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