Re: [deal.II] Question about the definiteness of the system matrix in Step-20

2020-02-04 Thread Wolfgang Bangerth
On 2/4/20 8:50 AM, David Wells wrote: since the eigenvalues of the leftmost matrix are all 1 (its triangular with 1s on the main diagonal). The eigenvalues of the rightmost matrix are the eigenvalues of A and the eigenvalues of -B A^-1 B^T. Since A is SPD, we can rewrite A^-1 = L L^T (its

Re: [deal.II] Question about the definiteness of the system matrix in Step-20

2020-02-04 Thread David Wells
Wolfgang pointed out to me that the pivot based answer is wrong - fortunately I have another explanation :) If we have the block matrix A B^T B 0 where A is SPD and B has linearly independent rows, this matrix has equal eigenvalues to I 0A B^T

Re: [deal.II] Question about the definiteness of the system matrix in Step-20

2020-02-02 Thread Wolfgang Bangerth
On 2/1/20 12:44 PM, Krishnakumar Gopalakrishnan wrote: "_Two difficulties_ arise due to the _*zero pivots*_ in the bottom-right block of the matrix. 1. Firstly, following a classical result from linear algebra, such matrices are indefinite and the conjugate gradient solver cannot be

Re: [deal.II] Question about the definiteness of the system matrix in Step-20

2020-02-01 Thread David Wells
Dear Krishna, Allow me to clarify my previous statement. From Strang (intro to linear algebra, 5th edition, page 352): When a symmetric matrix S has one of these five properties, it has them all: 1. all n pivots of S are positive. 2. all n upper left determinants are positive. 3. all n

Re: [deal.II] Question about the definiteness of the system matrix in Step-20

2020-02-01 Thread Krishnakumar Gopalakrishnan
Dear Dr David Wells, Thank you for the explanation. However, this only satisfies me partially because the very next statement in that tutorial says: *"We would have to resort to other iterative solvers instead, such as MinRes, SymmLQ, or GMRES, that can deal with indefinite systems. However,

Re: [deal.II] Question about the definiteness of the system matrix in Step-20

2020-02-01 Thread David Wells
Hi Krishna, This is a classic linear algebra result - a symmetric matrix is positive definite if and only if it has positive pivots. Since this matrix has a zero block it does not even have a full set of pivots so it cannot be positive definite. Thanks, David Wells On Sat, Feb 1, 2020 at 9:49

[deal.II] Question about the definiteness of the system matrix in Step-20

2020-02-01 Thread Krishnakumar Gopalakrishnan
I realize that this question is not exactly about the code/concepts behind deal.II library itself, but rather about a mathematical statement from step-20. *"After assembling the linear system we are faced with the task of solving it. The problem here is: the matrix has a zero block at the