Re: [Debconf-discuss] US laptop ban and DebConf

[Mesut Can Gürle]

Hello,

For laptop ban, as far as I know Turkish Airlines started a service to take
care of laptops before boarding.
http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/03/24/turkish-airlines-electronics-ban/


I know it is not the best solution but it might be better to check laptops
in bags.

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 3:52 PM, Philipp Kern  wrote:

> On 03/25/2017 10:49 PM, Russ Allbery wrote:
> > martin f krafft  writes:
> >
> >> … at least not while we're flying in airplanes where toys with bluetooth
> >> are taken off children (just happened…). Since the aircraft can be
> >> disturbed with Bluetooth, I think we have a slew of other issues anyway,
> >> so it's hard to see the tree in all that forest.
> >
> > Note that the second sentence doesn't really follow from the first.  The
> > idea that this stuff interferes with airplane navigation equipment is
> > mostly nonsense.  (I only say mostly because there have been some
> > *remarkable* security flaws in airplane software.)
>
> Note that it might be the airline that imposes such restrictions (see 14
> CFR 91.21 (b) 5). For Lufthansa, it seems that they made it conditional
> on the type of plane used, which made me suspect that the aircraft
> manufacturer gave them something in writing for newer models. ;)
>
> That you'd ban cell phones can have technical and operational reasons.
> For instance you might not want people actually doing phone calls during
> take-off and landing (where you don't have staff to tell them off) or
> during flight (because it disturbs others). Apparently the FCC banned it
> in the US to not have fast-moving devices in the network.
> Even if Wikipedia shouldn't be the reference, [1] has a bit of content
> about that.
>
> Kind regards
> Philipp Kern
>
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phones_on_aircraft
>
>
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Re: [Debconf-discuss] US laptop ban and DebConf

[Philipp Kern]

On 03/25/2017 10:49 PM, Russ Allbery wrote:
> martin f krafft  writes:
> 
>> … at least not while we're flying in airplanes where toys with bluetooth
>> are taken off children (just happened…). Since the aircraft can be
>> disturbed with Bluetooth, I think we have a slew of other issues anyway,
>> so it's hard to see the tree in all that forest.
> 
> Note that the second sentence doesn't really follow from the first.  The
> idea that this stuff interferes with airplane navigation equipment is
> mostly nonsense.  (I only say mostly because there have been some
> *remarkable* security flaws in airplane software.)

Note that it might be the airline that imposes such restrictions (see 14
CFR 91.21 (b) 5). For Lufthansa, it seems that they made it conditional
on the type of plane used, which made me suspect that the aircraft
manufacturer gave them something in writing for newer models. ;)

That you'd ban cell phones can have technical and operational reasons.
For instance you might not want people actually doing phone calls during
take-off and landing (where you don't have staff to tell them off) or
during flight (because it disturbs others). Apparently the FCC banned it
in the US to not have fast-moving devices in the network.
Even if Wikipedia shouldn't be the reference, [1] has a bit of content
about that.

Kind regards
Philipp Kern

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phones_on_aircraft



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Re: [Debconf-discuss] US laptop ban and DebConf

[Russ Allbery]

martin f krafft  writes:

> … at least not while we're flying in airplanes where toys with bluetooth
> are taken off children (just happened…). Since the aircraft can be
> disturbed with Bluetooth, I think we have a slew of other issues anyway,
> so it's hard to see the tree in all that forest.

Note that the second sentence doesn't really follow from the first.  The
idea that this stuff interferes with airplane navigation equipment is
mostly nonsense.  (I only say mostly because there have been some
*remarkable* security flaws in airplane software.)

Unfortunately, air transportation safety in the last thirty years or so
has entered some bizarre zero-fact zone where the public statements from
the people responsible for safety protocols are completely unbelievable
nonsense, like the idea that a cell phone might interfere with airplane
navigation, or like the idea that 95% of the stuff confiscated at
checkpoints has anything whatsoever to do with aircraft safety.

In some cases, these policies may be hiding real security threat models.
I suspect there are more legitimate threat models underlying this crap
than we're giving them credit for.  But because nearly all of the public
statements are such total absurdity, and because at least in the US the
screeners are so maniphestly incompetent given even their own internal
testing, they've burned their credibility so completely that it almost
doesn't matter any more.  We're in this weird state where actual
legitimate policy may or may not be buried under a layer of unjustified
ass-covering, but all one can actually see is the ass-covering and
blame-shifting.

Airline safety has been a completely bipartisan failure in the United
States.  The last three administrations have been equally bad, regardless
of political affiliation.  The FAA and the TSA just pile new rule on top
of new rule with no defensible public justification other than furious
flag-waving and vicious attacks on anyone who questions them.  It's sad;
the TSA was never any better than marginal, but I used to have real
respect for the FAA as a fact-based, thoughtful, methodical investigative
body grounded in real science.

-- 
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Re: [Debconf-discuss] US laptop ban and DebConf

[martin f krafft]

also sprach Russ Allbery  [2017-03-25 19:36 +0100]:
> It's very difficult to figure out the threat model under which
> moving electronics, containing lithium-ion batteries no less, from
> the passenger cabin to the cargo hold makes the plane safer.  And
> of course no one who knows is saying anything at all useful.

Shouldn't be impossible to have the laptop running and providing
a Wifi network to which I then connect from the passenger level.
Then I can basically do anything I want anyway. In short: if this
were a threat, laptops would need to be banned from all baggage. But
I don't see this threat.

… at least not while we're flying in airplanes where toys with
bluetooth are taken off children (just happened…). Since the
aircraft can be disturbed with Bluetooth, I think we have a slew of
other issues anyway, so it's hard to see the tree in all that
forest.

-- 
 .''`.   martin f. krafft  @martinkrafft
: :'  :  DebConf orga team
`. `'`
  `-  DebConf17 Montreal, CA: https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf17
  DebConf18 Hsinchu, Taiwan: https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf18


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Re: [Debconf-discuss] US laptop ban and DebConf

[Russ Allbery]

martin f krafft  writes:

> Here's an alternative thought about this laptop ban:

> http://m.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2=11823052

> Basically it says this is retaliation against Gulf airlines, because
> apparently, US airlines are exempt from the laptop ban. If that's the
> case — I did not verify — then an obvious solution (which may not be the
> cheapest again) is to fly on US carriers.

No US carriers fly to the affected airports, which is why US carriers
aren't affected.  The UK appears to also be going along with and
instituting the same ban, with a slightly different selection of airports,
so whatever is going on here, it doesn't seem to be a purely US thing.

That said, I concur with the advice to just avoid flying through the US
right now when that isn't your destination.  It's probably not worth the
uncertainty and risk.

FWIW, it's being met with a great deal of dubiousness; the travel expert
the local news radio station interviewed this morning actually came right
out and said the ban was bullshit that does nothing to improve airline
safety, which is remarkable -- usually the experts are more measured in
their disapproval of stuff like this.  It's very difficult to figure out
the threat model under which moving electronics, containing lithium-ion
batteries no less, from the passenger cabin to the cargo hold makes the
plane safer.  And of course no one who knows is saying anything at all
useful.

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Re: [Debconf-discuss] US laptop ban and DebConf

[martin f krafft]

Here's an alternative thought about this laptop ban:

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2=11823052

Basically it says this is retaliation against Gulf airlines, because
apparently, US airlines are exempt from the laptop ban. If that's
the case — I did not verify — then an obvious solution (which may
not be the cheapest again) is to fly on US carriers.

Or — as said before — invest some extra money and avoid US airports
anyway, which I personally choose to do just for the sake of
dignity.

-- 
 .''`.   martin f. krafft  @martinkrafft
: :'  :  DebConf orga team
`. `'`
  `-  DebConf17 Montreal, CA: https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf17
  DebConf18 Hsinchu, Taiwan: https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf18


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Re: [Debconf-discuss] US laptop ban and DebConf

[Steve Langasek]

On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 10:53:43PM +0530, shirish शिरीष wrote:
> Call me naive, but I was hoping that somebody would have answers and
> would also raise questions.

> For instance, one point being, what if the airlines enters US
> airspace, doesn't land in US but goes through there to Canada.
> Wouldn't those airlines be also affected by this ban ?

Do you know of a flight on one of the affected airlines which specifically
does this?

Your best and most up-to-date information is going to come from your
airline.  

I had started to write an analysis, reverse-engineering the DHS's threat
model based on the parameters of the ban; but the truth is that this doesn't
matter.  Even if that analysis was spot on, the threat model could change
between now and DebConf, and the parameters of the ban with it.

-- 
Steve Langasek   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/
slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org


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Re: [Debconf-discuss] US laptop ban and DebConf

[Daniel Pocock]

On 22/03/17 16:20, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 06:36:12AM +0200, Jonathan Carter wrote:
>> Hi Steve
> 
>> On 21/03/2017 20:02, Steve Langasek wrote:
>>> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 09:29:17AM +0100, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>>> There has been no indication that this is in any way driven by the Trump
>>> administration.
> 
>> http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/21/news/airline-electronics-ban-explainer/index.html?sr=fbCNN032117airline-electronics-ban-explainer0529PMStoryLink=35698638
> 
>> "The Trump administration has ordered nine airlines to stop passengers
>> from bringing most types of electronic devices"
> 
>> You call that fake news then? :)
> 
> I call referring to this as "the Trump Administration" instead of as "the
> Department of Homeland Security" or "the US government", without specific
> evidence that this was a decision made by political appointees of Donald
> Trump, misleading.
> 


Agreed - blaming Trump or blaming all Americans for the undignified,
humiliating and invasive security theater at today's airports would be
about as accurate as blaming all Muslims for terrorism or calling all
Mexicans murderers and rapists.

Regards,

Daniel

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Re: [Debconf-discuss] US laptop ban and DebConf

[shirish शिरीष]

Hi all,

Call me naive, but I was hoping that somebody would have answers and
would also raise questions.

For instance, one point being, what if the airlines enters US
airspace, doesn't land in US but goes through there to Canada.
Wouldn't those airlines be also affected by this ban ?

I did have a look at some of the articles around the world on the topic -

http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2017/03/21/airline-electronics-ban-is-protectionism-not-security.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/lists/what-air-travellers-could-once-change-in-flying-rules-golden-era/

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2017/03/21/trump_s_laptop_ban_is_a_giant_middle_finger_to_business_travelers.html

http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/21/technology/laptop-ban-safety/

and here is an indian take on the whole thing :) -

http://livefromalounge.boardingarea.com/2017/03/22/transfer-via-india-indian-airports-jet-airways-air-india-electronicsban/

-- 
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  Shirish Agarwal  शिरीष अग्रवाल
  My quotes in this email licensed under CC 3.0
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/
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Re: [Debconf-discuss] US laptop ban and DebConf

[Steve Langasek]

On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 06:36:12AM +0200, Jonathan Carter wrote:
> Hi Steve

> On 21/03/2017 20:02, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 09:29:17AM +0100, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> > There has been no indication that this is in any way driven by the Trump
> > administration.

> http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/21/news/airline-electronics-ban-explainer/index.html?sr=fbCNN032117airline-electronics-ban-explainer0529PMStoryLink=35698638

> "The Trump administration has ordered nine airlines to stop passengers
> from bringing most types of electronic devices"

> You call that fake news then? :)

I call referring to this as "the Trump Administration" instead of as "the
Department of Homeland Security" or "the US government", without specific
evidence that this was a decision made by political appointees of Donald
Trump, misleading.

> > This rule has all the hallmarks of a DHS/TSA-driven rule responding to
> > information shared between the intelligence agencies of the US and its
> > allies.

> The DHS/TSA do not operate in a bubble.

> > The erosion of civil liberties with respect to air travel is
> > frustrating, but please don't conflate targeted - if opaque and
> > inexplicable - air safety measures, with political posturing and
> > immigration policy.

> They go hand in hand.

One of these is part of an ongoing pattern across three presidencies in the
United States; the other is specific to President Donald J. Trump.

To be imprecise about this is to let ourselves be blind to the reality of
what's going on and ineffective in how we respond to it.

-- 
Steve Langasek   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/
slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org


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Re: [Debconf-discuss] US laptop ban and DebConf

[Steven Chamberlain]

Hi,

This thread started out okay, and some practical advice followed.  But
it's already gone the way of a recent thread on debian-private.  For
that I came up with this procmail rule:

:0:
* ^List-Id:.*debian-private.lists\.debian\.org
* ^Subject:.*\[off\-topic\]
$HOME/.maildir/.Trash/

To avoid having to unsubscribe from debconf-discuss, I now suggest:

:0:
* ^List-Id:.*debconf-discuss.lists\.debconf\.org
* ^Subject:.*US laptop ban and DebConf
$HOME/.maildir/.Trash/

Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 10:34:10PM +0100, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> > Respectfully...
> 
> > Could we please keep politics out of any Debian list?
> 
> No.
> 
> Have a nice day.

It's really sad, that I need to start doing things like this now:

:0:
* ^(From|To):.*vorlon.debian\.org
$HOME/.maildir/.Trash/

since mails like these are harming my productivity and motivation
recently.

Regards,
-- 
Steven Chamberlain
ste...@pyro.eu.org


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Re: [Debconf-discuss] US laptop ban and DebConf

[Andrey Rahmatullin]

On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 07:25:38AM +0100, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> Latest update: don't take flights connecting through the UK either.
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/21/uk-set-to-ban-laptops-on-flights-from-middle-east-countries
> 
> Notice they didn't include the UAE airports in their ban, presumably
> because many British people transit through Dubai and Abu Dhabi when
> going to SE Asia or Australia.
But they still included IST.

-- 
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Re: [Debconf-discuss] US laptop ban and DebConf

[Daniel Pocock]

On 21/03/17 16:12, shirish शिरीष wrote:
> Dear all,
> How are we to know if we are affected by the ban or not ? Most
> airlines, at least the low-cost ones I know don't have an e-mail id or
> even if they have, they don't reply. I have experienced it . I have
> tried the live chat option at some of the sites too and at times have
> found that what they say and what the airlines policy are different.
> Domestically, this has happened with me twice or thrice.
> 

Latest update: don't take flights connecting through the UK either.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/21/uk-set-to-ban-laptops-on-flights-from-middle-east-countries

Notice they didn't include the UAE airports in their ban, presumably
because many British people transit through Dubai and Abu Dhabi when
going to SE Asia or Australia.

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Re: [Debconf-discuss] US laptop ban and DebConf

[Daniel Pocock]

On 22/03/17 05:51, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 10:34:10PM +0100, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>> On 03/21/2017 07:02 PM, Steve Langasek wrote:
>>> The Trump administration has a genuinely racist agenda
> 
>> Respectfully...
> 
>> Could we please keep politics out of any Debian list?
> 
> No.
> 

What Trump does can't be described as politics anyway, it is more like
a giant code of conduct violation
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Re: [Debconf-discuss] US laptop ban and DebConf

[Steve Langasek]

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 10:34:10PM +0100, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> On 03/21/2017 07:02 PM, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > The Trump administration has a genuinely racist agenda

> Respectfully...

> Could we please keep politics out of any Debian list?

No.

Have a nice day.

-- 
Steve Langasek   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/
slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org


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Re: [Debconf-discuss] US laptop ban and DebConf

[Jonathan Carter]

Hi Steve

On 21/03/2017 20:02, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 09:29:17AM +0100, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> There has been no indication that this is in any way driven by the Trump
> administration.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/21/news/airline-electronics-ban-explainer/index.html?sr=fbCNN032117airline-electronics-ban-explainer0529PMStoryLink=35698638

"The Trump administration has ordered nine airlines to stop passengers
from bringing most types of electronic devices"

You call that fake news then? :)

> This rule has all the hallmarks of a DHS/TSA-driven rule responding to
> information shared between the intelligence agencies of the US and its
> allies.

The DHS/TSA do not operate in a bubble.

> The erosion of civil liberties with respect to air travel is frustrating,
> but please don't conflate targeted - if opaque and inexplicable - air safety
> measures, with political posturing and immigration policy.

They go hand in hand.

-Jonathan
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Re: [Debconf-discuss] US laptop ban and DebConf

[Thomas Goirand]

On 03/21/2017 07:02 PM, Steve Langasek wrote:
> The Trump administration has a genuinely racist agenda

Respectfully...

Could we please keep politics out of any Debian list?

I'd very much prefer if we just keep fighting for free software, and I
suspect I'm not the only one with that preference. Debian isn't the
place for such political debate/statements.

Cheers,

Thomas Goirand (zigo)

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Re: [Debconf-discuss] US laptop ban and DebConf

[Steve Langasek]

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 09:29:17AM +0100, Daniel Pocock wrote:

> Looking at the laptop ban[1], it appears to target airlines rather than
> individuals and it could impact people going to DebConf this year.

> Some of the airports on the list (Dubai, Abu Dhabi) are transit points
> for many people from Asia going to the US and Canada or from Australia
> going to Europe.

> In fact, looking at the cheapest flights on Kayak.com from Mumbai to
> Montreal, they go via one of the affected airports, Ataturk Airport,
> Istanbul, Turkey although not all of the itineraries propose a stop in
> the US.

> Can anybody make suggestions about how to minimize the impact on DebConf
> and DebConf visitors?  For example, could there be a computer lab or
> other facility where people can work without a laptop, maybe booting
> from their USB stick or using remote desktops?  How could these things
> be facilitated in a security conscious manner?

> These security hassles can change from time to time and at short notice
> too.  I suspect that each time one of Trump's bans is overturned by the
> courts he will bring in some new rule like this to ensure he appears to
> be "doing" something and to keep attention on his newest antics rather
> than the court cases.

There has been no indication that this is in any way driven by the Trump
administration.  The Trump administration has a genuinely racist agenda to
keep people from certain parts of the world out of the US; inconveniencing
business travelers who have laptops and money is not consistent with that
agenda.

This rule has all the hallmarks of a DHS/TSA-driven rule responding to
information shared between the intelligence agencies of the US and its
allies.

The erosion of civil liberties with respect to air travel is frustrating,
but please don't conflate targeted - if opaque and inexplicable - air safety
measures, with political posturing and immigration policy.

-- 
Steve Langasek   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/
slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org


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Re: [Debconf-discuss] US laptop ban and DebConf

[shirish शिरीष]

Dear all,
How are we to know if we are affected by the ban or not ? Most
airlines, at least the low-cost ones I know don't have an e-mail id or
even if they have, they don't reply. I have experienced it . I have
tried the live chat option at some of the sites too and at times have
found that what they say and what the airlines policy are different.
Domestically, this has happened with me twice or thrice.

I do not want myself or anybody else to be in a position where one is
under the belief that the laptop ban does not affect them and while on
the gate or the counter there they come to know that they will need to
put it in checked bag.

Apart from rough handling, the possibility of theft is also there in
checked bags and especially if you have the same airlines with a
layover, I would come to know only when in Montreal.

The only choice would be not to take the flight. I do not see an easy
way out except having a usb drive, have whatever content is needed and
use a desktop/laptop in montreal which has been shared above by
people.

Just my 2 paise.

-- 
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  Shirish Agarwal  शिरीष अग्रवाल
  My quotes in this email licensed under CC 3.0
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Re: [Debconf-discuss] US laptop ban and DebConf

[Jerome Charaoui]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Le 2017-03-21 à 09:20, Jeroen Dekkers a écrit :
> At Tue, 21 Mar 2017 09:29:17 +0100, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>> Looking at the laptop ban[1], it appears to target airlines
>> rather than individuals and it could impact people going to
>> DebConf this year.
> 
> It is a cabin ban, so it is still possible to put a laptop in
> checked luggage.

There are several reasons why this may still prevent people from
bringing along their laptop:

* Soft, padded suitcases are not suitable for protecting fragile
computer equipment from potential damage due to being tossed around
during airport handling and in the aircraft itself

* Checked baggage can sometimes be subject to intrusive, indelicate
searches, further increasing the risk of damage

There may be other reasons I've not listed here.

- -- Jerome

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Re: [Debconf-discuss] US laptop ban and DebConf

[Jerome Charaoui]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Le 2017-03-21 à 04:29, Daniel Pocock a écrit :
> Can anybody make suggestions about how to minimize the impact on
> DebConf and DebConf visitors?  For example, could there be a
> computer lab or other facility where people can work without a
> laptop, maybe booting from their USB stick or using remote
> desktops?  How could these things be facilitated in a security
> conscious manner?

The first thing would be for people affected by this ban to identify
themselves via the registration form. Although flights are not always
booked by the time people register, it's possible to update the
information by returning to the form. Knowing how many people we'd have
to help out will allow us find an appropriate solution.

Organizing computer lab access is definitely possible as the venue has
quite a few of those around, although it would probably incur additional
expense for the conference.

If it turns out only a small number of visitors are unable to bring
their computer, we may be able to arrange for a handful of desktops to
be available in hacklabs. Simply finding a couple of laptops to lend out
for the duration of the conference may also be something we could work
out.

- -- Jerome


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Re: [Debconf-discuss] US laptop ban and DebConf

[Daniel Pocock]

On 21/03/17 11:49, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> Quoting Steven Chamberlain (2017-03-21 11:21:30)
>> martin f krafft wrote:
>>> Do not fly via the US.
>>
>> That's my plan also, but:
>>
>> the article suggests that at least Royal Jordanian Airlines would impose
>> the restriction on flights to Montreal despite *not* landing in the US.
>>
>> I don't believe the media coverage;  but if this really does happen,
>> hopefully everyone can find a flight/airline avoiding such
>> restrictions.  My ideas would be using KLM (direct from Europe) or Wizz
>> Air (via Rejkjavik :)
> 
> Always do a stop-over in Iceland if that is an option!
> 

Or build a wall, I hear that is a good way to solve any problem
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Re: [Debconf-discuss] US laptop ban and DebConf

[Andreas Tille]

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 11:49:27AM +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > I don't believe the media coverage;  but if this really does happen,
> > hopefully everyone can find a flight/airline avoiding such
> > restrictions.  My ideas would be using KLM (direct from Europe) or Wizz
> > Air (via Rejkjavik :)
> 
> Always do a stop-over in Iceland if that is an option!

... and book the blue lagoon at least 1 week in advance. :-P

See you in Montreal

 Andreas.

-- 
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Re: [Debconf-discuss] US laptop ban and DebConf

[Jeroen Dekkers]

At Tue, 21 Mar 2017 09:29:17 +0100,
Daniel Pocock wrote:
> Looking at the laptop ban[1], it appears to target airlines rather than
> individuals and it could impact people going to DebConf this year.

It is a cabin ban, so it is still possible to put a laptop in checked
luggage.


Kind regards,

Jeroen Dekkers
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Re: [Debconf-discuss] US laptop ban and DebConf

[Daniel Pocock]

On 21/03/17 11:10, martin f krafft wrote:
> also sprach Daniel Pocock  [2017-03-21 21:29
> +1300]:
>> Can anybody make suggestions about how to minimize the impact on 
>> DebConf and DebConf visitors?
> 
> Do not fly via the US. I understand this might mean the cheapest 
> flight is not available to you, but some of the measures you
> propose would mean additional expense on DebConf, in which case we
> might just as well commit that money to helping people "upgrade"
> their flights?
> 

That may be something for the bursaries team to comment on - if I
understand the way it usually works, people are expected to find the
cheapest flight and they can go up to 10% over if the price changes.

Does anybody know if these rules also apply to flights passing through
US airspace?  Even if that doesn't apply now, they seem to be changing
some rules almost every week.

Regards,

Daniel


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Re: [Debconf-discuss] US laptop ban and DebConf

[Jonathan McDowell]

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 10:21:30AM +, Steven Chamberlain wrote:
> martin f krafft wrote:
> > Do not fly via the US.
> 
> That's my plan also, but:
> 
> the article suggests that at least Royal Jordanian Airlines would impose
> the restriction on flights to Montreal despite *not* landing in the US.

My reading was that the Montreal flights are served by a flight that
also lands in Detroit (from the tweet on
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/03/20/tsa_bans_devices_bigger_than_phones_certain_airlines/).

> I don't believe the media coverage;  but if this really does happen,
> hopefully everyone can find a flight/airline avoiding such
> restrictions.  My ideas would be using KLM (direct from Europe) or Wizz
> Air (via Rejkjavik :)

I'm on the WOW flight that is DUB -> KEF -> YUL. Be delighted to see
other Debian folk on it too. :)

J.

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Re: [Debconf-discuss] US laptop ban and DebConf

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting Steven Chamberlain (2017-03-21 11:21:30)
> martin f krafft wrote:
> > Do not fly via the US.
> 
> That's my plan also, but:
> 
> the article suggests that at least Royal Jordanian Airlines would impose
> the restriction on flights to Montreal despite *not* landing in the US.
> 
> I don't believe the media coverage;  but if this really does happen,
> hopefully everyone can find a flight/airline avoiding such
> restrictions.  My ideas would be using KLM (direct from Europe) or Wizz
> Air (via Rejkjavik :)

Always do a stop-over in Iceland if that is an option!

 - Jonas

-- 
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 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private


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Re: [Debconf-discuss] US laptop ban and DebConf

[Steven Chamberlain]

martin f krafft wrote:
> Do not fly via the US.

That's my plan also, but:

the article suggests that at least Royal Jordanian Airlines would impose
the restriction on flights to Montreal despite *not* landing in the US.

I don't believe the media coverage;  but if this really does happen,
hopefully everyone can find a flight/airline avoiding such
restrictions.  My ideas would be using KLM (direct from Europe) or Wizz
Air (via Rejkjavik :)

Regards,
-- 
Steven Chamberlain
ste...@pyro.eu.org


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Re: [Debconf-discuss] US laptop ban and DebConf

[martin f krafft]

also sprach Daniel Pocock  [2017-03-21 21:29 +1300]:
> Can anybody make suggestions about how to minimize the impact on
> DebConf and DebConf visitors?

Do not fly via the US. I understand this might mean the cheapest
flight is not available to you, but some of the measures you propose
would mean additional expense on DebConf, in which case we might
just as well commit that money to helping people "upgrade" their
flights?

My 2¢…

-- 
 .''`.   martin f. krafft  @martinkrafft
: :'  :  DebConf orga team
`. `'`
  `-  DebConf17 Montreal, CA: https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf17
  DebConf18 Hsinchu, Taiwan: https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf18


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[Debconf-discuss] US laptop ban and DebConf

[Daniel Pocock]

Looking at the laptop ban[1], it appears to target airlines rather than
individuals and it could impact people going to DebConf this year.

Some of the airports on the list (Dubai, Abu Dhabi) are transit points
for many people from Asia going to the US and Canada or from Australia
going to Europe.

In fact, looking at the cheapest flights on Kayak.com from Mumbai to
Montreal, they go via one of the affected airports, Ataturk Airport,
Istanbul, Turkey although not all of the itineraries propose a stop in
the US.

Can anybody make suggestions about how to minimize the impact on DebConf
and DebConf visitors?  For example, could there be a computer lab or
other facility where people can work without a laptop, maybe booting
from their USB stick or using remote desktops?  How could these things
be facilitated in a security conscious manner?

These security hassles can change from time to time and at short notice
too.  I suspect that each time one of Trump's bans is overturned by the
courts he will bring in some new rule like this to ensure he appears to
be "doing" something and to keep attention on his newest antics rather
than the court cases.

Regards,

Daniel

1. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39333424
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