Re: Prepare for more online participation?
Hi Wouter On 2020/04/09 13:51, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 10:53:14AM +0200, Jonathan Carter wrote: >> The plan is to bring a bunch of tools together and run an online >> minidebconf[3] using these, putting them to the test and identifying >> weak spots so that we can do it better again later in the year. > > Cool; but that wiki page currently has no date or details on the > pre-event testing. What's happening there currently? Is something being > planned, or is it still at a "something will happen if someone does > something" stage? It's past the "something will happen if someone does something" stage but not yet at a stage where we can commit to a date (although I'm tempted to say 'let it burn' and suggest that we should choose a date and see what we can have ready by then). There's been a lot of discussion on #minidebconf-online, probably a good idea to join there. Kyle has been working on a new webrtc app called BillowConf that's interesting, not sure if it would be ready for the kind of timelines we'll be looking at, but also something you could potentially help with: https://billowconf.gitlab.io/billowconf/ I'll set up an IRC meeting where we can figure out some critical paths, it would be nice to at least have a date, be able to call for proposals, etc. -Jonathan -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ Jonathan Carter (highvoltage) ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ https://wiki.debian.org/highvoltage ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋ https://debian.org | https://jonathancarter.org ⠈⠳⣄ Be Bold. Be brave. Debian has got your back.
Re: Prepare for more online participation?
On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 10:53:14AM +0200, Jonathan Carter wrote: > The plan is to bring a bunch of tools together and run an online > minidebconf[3] using these, putting them to the test and identifying > weak spots so that we can do it better again later in the year. Cool; but that wiki page currently has no date or details on the pre-event testing. What's happening there currently? Is something being planned, or is it still at a "something will happen if someone does something" stage? (I'm happy to "do something" if that helps, but would need to know more) -- Home is where you have to wash the dishes. -- #debian-devel, Freenode, 2004-09-22
Re: Prepare for more online participation?
Hi Jonathan, Em 25/03/2020 05:53, Jonathan Carter escreveu: > Yeah we have a Debian jitsi instance[1] too as part of Debian Social[2]. > > The plan is to bring a bunch of tools together and run an online > minidebconf[3] using these, putting them to the test and identifying > weak spots so that we can do it better again later in the year. meet.jit.si has a feature to streaming on youtube. Is it possible we have this feature on Debian jitsi instance? Last week we made a live with brazilians DDs and we wanted streaming on youtube. But we couldn't use Debian instance. Best regards, -- Paulo Henrique de Lima Santana (phls) Curitiba - Brasil Debian Developer Diretor do Instituto para Conservação de Tecnologias Livres Site: http://www.phls.com.br GNU/Linux user: 228719 GPG ID: 0443C450 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Prepare for more online participation?
Hi, On 2020/03/25 10:53, Jonathan Carter wrote: > Hi Wouter > > On 2020/03/25 10:07, Wouter Verhelst wrote: >> Thoughts? > Yeah we have a Debian jitsi instance[1] too as part of Debian Social[2]. > > The plan is to bring a bunch of tools together and run an online > minidebconf[3] using these, putting them to the test and identifying > weak spots so that we can do it better again later in the year. I have also been working on BillowConf [1] to address the shortcomings of Jitsi in the large conference setting. It is still very early days. The use-case I foresee is MiniConfs/DebConfs and State of the Map [2] later this year. [1] https://gitlab.com/billowconf/billowconf [2] https://2020.stateofthemap.org/ Cheers Kyle -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Kyle Robbertze ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ Debian Developer ⠈⠳⣄ https://wiki.debian.org/KyleRobbertze
Re: Prepare for more online participation?
On 25/03/2020 02:53, Jonathan Carter wrote: > Hi Wouter > > On 2020/03/25 10:07, Wouter Verhelst wrote: >> Thoughts? > Yeah we have a Debian jitsi instance[1] too as part of Debian Social[2]. > > The plan is to bring a bunch of tools together and run an online > minidebconf[3] using these, putting them to the test and identifying > weak spots so that we can do it better again later in the year. > > -Jonathan > > [1] https://jitsi.debian.social > [2] https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianSocial > [3] https://wiki.debian.org/DebianEvents/internet/2020/MiniDebConfOnline > Hi, I think it would be a nice idea to use the Debian Jitsi instance and meanwhile speakers could share their slides' screen during the presentation with the audience and alternate from time to time to the camera and the slides screen, Regards Jathan -- Por favor evita enviarme adjuntos en formato de word o powerpoint, si quieres saber porque lee esto: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.es.html ¡Cámbiate a GNU/Linux! http://getgnulinux.org/es signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Prepare for more online participation?
On 2020-03-25 09:07 +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > Hi folks, > > I think we should prepare ourselves for the likelihood that, given the > current pandemic, ... this > year's DebConf will require more online participation, or in the worst > case be an online-only debconf. > We did run an experiment for a streaming-only event last year for Ben's > talk, and I think that was a success. If there will still be some > attendance, then we can reuse the method used last year in greater > numbers. However, I think we should also look in some detail towards > free software videoconferencing solutions. I recently learned that > Jitsi[1] has the ability to stream to YouTube; Yeah I discovered that a couple of days ago too. Presumably it can/could also stream to free things like our current vlc setup. > Jitsi really only > requires a webbrowser, has support for screen sharing, and is at least > working on a presenter mode[2][3], so this should theoretically be a > good match. I should note, however, that I haven't looked at things in > detail yet. I like jitsi-meet - it works well, and I've used the free instance up to 15 people and it's worked surprisingly well. On the other hand the design is for the server to not do much and send all the streams which has scaling limitations. As you say, the one thing missing from jitsi for conference use is being able to record the presenter (but perhaps that could be a separate thing?), and being able to send both slides and video. Glad to see that they are working on that. I'm interested in this subject generally for better remote attendance at our conferences. I think we can do better than the current 30-sec delayed stream and IRC incoming, and have had some discussions about it (copied to this list) but not done anything useful. This is of course a slightly different problem from an entirely remote conference. Suse made a thing based on libjanus which seems like it might be a good project to work from: https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Jangouts I have so far merely discovered its existence (after the libjanus talk at FOSDEM this year), but have not checked it out. The two free 'conference' platforms that seem to have some momentum are apache openmeeting and bigbluebutton. I have tried neither. And there is a moodle plugin to do similar things. These seem to be more focussed on education and I presume have a server-side mixing architecture? > It would seem that we have a lot to explore if we're going to do this; > but given that DebConf20 is still a ways off, if we get started now we > should have the necessary time to get everything ready in time. > > Thoughts? Good plan. It would be good to come up with a non-proprietary alternative to zoom, which is currently taking over the world, and that's unfortunate. (although they have now made that work in just a browser. Rather than a local install so its 'only' a pile of proprietary javascript, like everything else...) I'm happy to help out with testing but have negligible actual expertise in this area. (I'm currently in the middle of a 2-day zoom+youtube streaming remote conference which is actually working reasonably well without installing any non-free stuff except all the stuff delivered on the page. That only allows questions by chat, not in person, but is a perfectly good experience, and if we could achieve the same level I would could that as a success.) We should start out with some evaluation of the available tech, and a think about an architecture that would work for 400 people. jisti+streaming server could work so long as most participants are only on the stream, with a few uploaders that want to speak. I'm not sure how possible/practical that is. And testing with large numbers is always hard of course. Wookey -- Principal hats: Linaro, Debian, Wookware, ARM http://wookware.org/ signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Prepare for more online participation?
Hi, Il 25/03/20 12:20, Paulo Henrique de Lima Santana ha scritto: > Do you have any experience with BigBlueButton? > > It seems a good solution to presentations, but I think we need login to > watch. BBB is a nice software for remote teaching and conferencing, but I am not sure it scales well with many listeners. It is mostly oriented to classroom-like meetings, where only a limited number of endpoints actually engage in the room. So the speakers can directly join the BBB room (and share webcam, screen, use the whiteboard, as they please), but the general public should have the video delivered by a more scalable solution (like the one we already use for DebConf, except that it would need to be integrated with BBB). This also means, of course, that viewers do not need to login). The feedback can be done via IRC as we are already used to do. The BBB room must probably have at least one moderator together with the speaker, so that the speaker is not required to monitor the IRC channel. For both Jitsi and BBB it is important to have a well-connected server and to implement STUN/TURN/ICE properly, otherwise there will be never ending connection issues. This might require some nontrivial admin and network skills, which are surely available in Debian, but it is important to give a fair amount of attention to that. I am not sure of how the connection with Ben was implemented in Curitiba, but my feeling back then was that it was quite hacky. Good for a one time test, but we probably want something more click-and-go for the general availability. For BBB only the moderator needs to have an account on the BBB server. Then they can create rooms and give the access link to anybody. Giovanni. -- Giovanni Mascellani Postdoc researcher - Université Libre de Bruxelles signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Prepare for more online participation?
Em 25/03/2020 09:18, Jonathan Carter escreveu: > On 2020/03/25 13:20, Paulo Henrique de Lima Santana wrote: >> Do you have any experience with BigBlueButton? > > I last used it about 8 years ago, but it was very good back then, we can > set up an instance for it on debian.social too to give it another shot. Cool! -- Paulo Henrique de Lima Santana (phls) Curitiba - Brasil Debian Developer Diretor do Instituto para Conservação de Tecnologias Livres Site: http://www.phls.com.br GNU/Linux user: 228719 GPG ID: 0443C450 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Prepare for more online participation?
On 2020/03/25 13:20, Paulo Henrique de Lima Santana wrote: > Do you have any experience with BigBlueButton? I last used it about 8 years ago, but it was very good back then, we can set up an instance for it on debian.social too to give it another shot. -Jonathan -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ Jonathan Carter (highvoltage) ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ https://wiki.debian.org/highvoltage ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋ https://debian.org | https://jonathancarter.org ⠈⠳⣄ Be Bold. Be brave. Debian has got your back.
Re: Prepare for more online participation?
Hi all, Do you have any experience with BigBlueButton? It seems a good solution to presentations, but I think we need login to watch. Best regards, Em 25/03/2020 05:53, Jonathan Carter escreveu: > Hi Wouter > > On 2020/03/25 10:07, Wouter Verhelst wrote: >> Thoughts? > Yeah we have a Debian jitsi instance[1] too as part of Debian Social[2]. > > The plan is to bring a bunch of tools together and run an online > minidebconf[3] using these, putting them to the test and identifying > weak spots so that we can do it better again later in the year. > > -Jonathan > > [1] https://jitsi.debian.social > [2] https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianSocial > [3] https://wiki.debian.org/DebianEvents/internet/2020/MiniDebConfOnline > -- Paulo Henrique de Lima Santana (phls) Curitiba - Brasil Debian Developer Diretor do Instituto para Conservação de Tecnologias Livres Site: http://www.phls.com.br GNU/Linux user: 228719 GPG ID: 0443C450 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Prepare for more online participation?
Hi Wouter On 2020/03/25 10:07, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > Thoughts? Yeah we have a Debian jitsi instance[1] too as part of Debian Social[2]. The plan is to bring a bunch of tools together and run an online minidebconf[3] using these, putting them to the test and identifying weak spots so that we can do it better again later in the year. -Jonathan [1] https://jitsi.debian.social [2] https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianSocial [3] https://wiki.debian.org/DebianEvents/internet/2020/MiniDebConfOnline -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ Jonathan Carter (highvoltage) ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ https://wiki.debian.org/highvoltage ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋ https://debian.org | https://jonathancarter.org ⠈⠳⣄ Be Bold. Be brave. Debian has got your back.
