Re: Debian 11 installation attempt / walkthrough

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hello Adrian,

On 23 Dec 2022, at 9:29, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:

> Hello Carsten!
>
> On 12/23/22 09:19, Carsten Strotmann wrote:
>> Issue is now solved, Stefan is installing the latest Debian 11.
>
> Nice. Could you assemble a list of issues that you ran into that
> we can address them if necessary?
>

the issue was faulty network hardware, there is (from my point of view) nothing 
what the Debian installer or the Linux Kernel could do differently. Once we had 
a working network card in the system, the Debian installer worked as intended.

We've selected the "ne" network card module (the NetUSBee was not detected 
automatically), then the machine got an IPv4 address and the installer started 
to download and install the system.

I personally would like to see IPv6 in the installer image (if space permits), 
as IPv6 SLAAC is more simple than DHCPv4 and might be a good alternative if 
DHCPv4 fails (many Debian mirror server provide IPv6, and also many users have 
IPv6 natively at home and only tunnelled IPv4 = IPv4-as-a-service).

Greetings

Carsten

Re: Debian 11 installation attempt / walkthrough

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hi,

On 23 Dec 2022, at 3:26, Michael Schmitz wrote:

> Hi Stefan,
>
> Am 22.12.2022 um 11:17 schrieb Finn Thain:
 ip address add 192.168.1.10/24 dev eth0
>>> ok
 ip route add default via 192.168.1.1
>>> ip: RTNETLINK answers: Network is unreachable
>>>

 where "192.168.1.10/24" is the IP address of the Falcon machine and
 "192.168.1.1" is the default gateway address (router).

>>
>> ip address add 192.168.1.10/24 dev eth0
>> ip link set dev eth0 up
>> ip route add default via 192.168.1.1
>
> Perhaps add 'ip route add 192.168.1.0/24 dev eth0' in case 'ip address' did 
> not set up the local network route?
>
> Output of 'ip route show' would be useful.
>

I visited Stefan yesterday and we found that the problem was faulty hardware 
(both network-cards were faulty). I brought a NetUSBee card and that worked 
immediately without issues.

With both faulty network cards the ARP request were send, and ARP responses 
were send back to the Atari Falcon, but the Falcon never did receive the ARP 
responses, so the ARP-Table was not populated.

Issue is now solved, Stefan is installing the latest Debian 11.

Greetings

Carsten

Re: Debian 11 installation attempt / walkthrough

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hi Stefan,

On 21 Dec 2022, at 14:54, Stefan Niestegge wrote:

> So i used the Shift+Control F2 to open second console.
>
> on the busybox shell i use 3 commands:
>
> ip link set dev eth0 down
>
> ip link set dev eth0 address aa:bb:cc:dd:ee:ff
>
> ip link set dev eth0 up
>
> now the EtherNat has a valid MAC address (i randomized it from the example) 
> but still D-I fails to DHCP. I need to fiddle around and find the problem 
> here. Any hints welcome, i will make sure its not a hardware
>
> issue in the meantime.

1)
you could try to work around the DHCP issue by setting a fixed IP address for 
the installation run:

ip address add 192.168.1.10/24 dev eth0
ip route add default via 192.168.1.1

where "192.168.1.10/24" is the IP address of the Falcon machine and 
"192.168.1.1" is the default gateway address (router).

2) what does "dhclient -v eth0" report?

3) you could look at the DHCP traffic from the machine on a different console 
screen:

tcpdump -i eth0 port 67 and port 68

(not sure if tcpdump is available, else, because DHCP requests are broadcast 
messages in IPv4, running "tcpdump" on any other Linux or BSD machine in the 
same network segment should also show the requests and responses).

4) Use IPv6 with SLAAC :)

Greetings

Carsten

m68k.info chat: with Volker Barthelmann on C-Compiler development

[Carsten Strotmann]

Next m68k evening chat:

Date: Friday 28th of May 2021, 20:30 H CEST (18:30H / 06:30 PM UTC)

Information: http://m68k.info

In the upcoming m68k chat we will talk to Dr. Volker Barthelmann,
developer of the vbcc compiler, vasm assembler and vlink linker.

vbcc is a highly optimizing portable and retargetable ISO C compiler.
It supports ISO C according to ISO/IEC 9899:1989 and most of ISO/IEC
9899:1999 (C99).

vbcc runs on and can produce code for a large number of platforms,
such as m68k, Coldfire, PowerPC, 65(C)02, i386 (Linux, NetBSD),
VideoCore IV (RasperryPi GPU) and even for the Z-Machine (Infocom
Text-Adventure VM).

See Volker's homepage http://compilers.de/ for
more information.

Re: Using Debian SID on a Mac SE/30

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hi Stan,

On 15 Apr 2021, at 4:23, Finn Thain wrote:

Most of that is probably password hashing. Look in /etc/shadow and 
you'll

probably find long password hashes. If you're not worried about weak
hashes, you could switch to DES which is probably what A/UX uses. See 
'man

login.defs' and 'man 3 crypt'.

BTW, if your password hashes are never leaked or your actual passwords 
are

guessable anyway then I don't see much benefit from SHA512.

FTR, I'm not advocating guessable passwords and weak hashes. But if 
you

want to try it, I hear that 12345 is very popular:

$ perl -e 'print crypt("12345","xx")."\n"'
xxwddmriJc5TI


When I had similar problems on a Mac LCII, I've switched the password 
hashing scheme from SHA512 (5000 Rounds) to MD5 with


ENCRYPT_METHOD MD5

in /etc/login.defs and

password[success=1 default=ignore]  pam_unix.so obscure md5

in /etc/pam.d/common-password

After changing this setting, make sure to set a new password for the 
users that you use. The password string in /etc/shadow should  now look 
like this


user:$1$LJE/eegi$OnIQXGTyEwh2q8rhyJssw/:18732:0:9:7:::

instead of this (SHA512)

user:$6$ThsKWiJWXD8NRyVk$4jC4Rmn9.SoHFou7w84VOYgTshzyvbz2zIBgDbozbzC5CfYw8Dipihsrd8HC5oNob2OjTun.2dDl0KU4c5lO51:18732:0:9:7:::

Greetings

Carsten

Friday m68k chat - Marcel Kilgus on SMSQ/E (open source OS for Sinclair QL and other m68k machines)

[Carsten Strotmann]

Next m68k evening chat:

Date: Friday 26th of March 2021, 19:00 H CET (18:00H / 06:00 PM 
UTC)


Information: http://m68k.info

Topic: Marcel Kilgus on SMSQ/E (open source OS for the Sinclair QL 
and other m68k computer) / m68k

emulation in x86 assembly / Sinclair QL and m68k in FPGA

There is a bare bones version of SMSQ/E that runs on the Atari ST 
and Amiga.


Marcel is part of the SMSQ/E kernel developer team.

Greetings

Carsten

Next friday m68k chat: Sinclair QL and Alpha Micro Machines

[Carsten Strotmann]

The next  #m68k chat will be this upcoming friday with two 
interesting

topics, and as always, a nice chat:

Feature 1: Cameron Kaiser on Alpha Micro Machines - lesser known 
m68k machines


Feature 2: Urs König on Sinclair QL (History, Ecosystem and 
history and modern extensions, QL operating system and Basic, 
modern open source operating systems)


Date: Friday 22nd January 2021, 19:00 H CET (18:00H / 06:00 PM 
UTC)


Login information can be found at 

See you there

Carsten

Next m68k evening chat on Friday 18th December: Nick Desaulniers on compiling the Linux Kernel for m68k with LLVM

[Carsten Strotmann]

Next m68k developers chat:

 Date: Friday 18th December 2020, 19:00 H CET (18:00H / 06:00 PM 
 UTC)


 Location: https://public.senfcall.de/m68k (will be available 
 before the event starts)


 Topic 1: Nick Desaulniers on compiling the Linux Kernel for m68k 
 with LLVM


 Topic 2: First impressions on the Vampire 4 SA (Stand-Alone) 
 with AROS on the M68080 CPU (Carsten)


See you there

Carsten
https://m68k.info

Re: New powerful m68k Debian porterbox available

[Carsten Strotmann]

Sorry, my last mail was not intended for the list. :-S

On 12 Nov 2020, at 10:14, Carsten Strotmann wrote:

> Hallo Adrian,
>

Re: New powerful m68k Debian porterbox available

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hallo Adrian,

John Paul Adrian Glaubitz  writes:


Hi!

I'm happy to announce that we are finally able to provide a 
porterbox for the
m68k architecture which is available to every Debian Developer 
and everyone

with a Debian guest account with the necessary permissions.

The machine is called mitchy [1] (FQDN: mitchy.debian.net) and 
is named after

the dog Mitchy of the creator of the Amiga, Jay Miner [2].

The machine is based on a new QEMU m68k virtual machine type 
based on Google's
Goldfish project [3] and supports up to 3.2 GB of RAM and up to 
128 virtual
devices. With the host server currently in use, the emulated 
68040 is clocked
at around 1 GHz which is enough to build and test most packages 
- although for
building larger projects like GCC, it's advisable to use a 
faster host machine

or QEMU user emulation.

Hosting is kindly provided by Gandi.net [4] who have been 
providing cloud resources
for Debian Ports to provide build machines for multiple 
architectures for a while

now.

The code has been developed by Laurent Vivier and consists of 
changes to both
QEMU [5] and the Linux [6] which have not been upstreamed 
yet. Laurent will
be giving a talk on the current status of this project and m68k 
emulation in
QEMU in general during our next m68k online meeting on November, 
6th [7] where

everyone is invited to join.

Since the Goldfish-based m68k emulation support is rather new, 
the new porterbox
may sometimes becomes unstable although that has improved a lot 
with the latest
kernel patches by Laurent. There are also still some limitations 
in the FPU
emulation support, so if you are seeing unexpected build 
failures or run into
any other problems with the virtual machine, please let me 
know. I do have real
m68k hardware available (which is much slower) to be able to run 
occasional tests

on it.

Thanks,
Adrian


[1] https://db.debian.org/machines.cgi?host=mitchy
[2] 
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2007/07/a-history-of-the-amiga-part-1/3/

[3] https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item=MTMwNjM
[4] https://www.gandi.net
[5] https://github.com/vivier/qemu-m68k/tree/m68k-virt
[6] https://github.com/vivier/linux/tree/m68k-virt
[7] http://m68k.info/


Darf ich diese Meldung, ein wenig angepasst, auf die "Planet m68k" 
Seite

posten?

Beste Gruesse

Carsten

Re: emacs 27 fails to build from source on m68k

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hi Adrian,

On 9 Nov 2020, at 14:20, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:


Hi!

On 10/30/20 10:49 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
Just as a heads-up, emacs 27 is failing to build from source on m68k 
[1]:


Loading 
/<>/emacs-27.1+1/debian/build-src/lisp/vc/ediff-hook.el 
(source)...
Loading /<>/emacs-27.1+1/debian/build-src/lisp/uniquify.el 
(source)...
Loading /<>/emacs-27.1+1/debian/build-src/lisp/electric.el 
(source)...
Loading 
/<>/emacs-27.1+1/debian/build-src/lisp/emacs-lisp/eldoc.el 
(source)...
Loading 
/<>/emacs-27.1+1/debian/build-src/lisp/cus-start.el 
(source)...
Loading /<>/emacs-27.1+1/debian/build-src/lisp/tooltip.el 
(source)...

Finding pointers to doc strings...
Finding pointers to doc strings...done
Dumping under the name bootstrap-emacs.pdmp
dumping fingerprint: 
0a633170371949b7c12d424d042472d5315e0c291484a3bcbabc8d00b5dd75aa

dump relocation out of range
make[3]: *** [Makefile:817: bootstrap-emacs.pdmp] Error 255
make[3]: Leaving directory 
'/<>/emacs-27.1+1/debian/build-gtk/src'

make[2]: *** [Makefile:426: src] Error 2
make[2]: Leaving directory 
'/<>/emacs-27.1+1/debian/build-gtk'

make[1]: *** [debian/rules:335: override_dh_auto_build] Error 2
make[1]: Leaving directory '/<>/emacs-27.1+1'
make: *** [debian/rules:204: build-arch] Error 2


Unless someone has any idea how to fix the issue, I will report the 
problem upstream.


The issue reproduces on qemu-m68k-system as well.



You could try "--with-pdumper=no" in the configure step as a workaround. 
As I understand, Emacs changed the dumper from "unexec" to "pdumper" 
(https://dancol.org/pdumperpres.pdf) in Version 27.1.


 From https://www.masteringemacs.org/article/whats-new-in-emacs-27-1
 ""
  Emacs now uses a "portable dumper" instead of unexec.
  This improves compatibility with memory allocation on modern systems,
  and in particular better supports the Address Space Layout
  Randomization (ASLR) feature, a security technique used by most 
modern

  operating systems.
 ""

With the above configuration setting, you get the old dumper back. That 
is not a long-term solution, but a workaround until the root cause of 
the issue with the portable dumper is found.


Greetings

Carsten

Upcoming m68k developers chat this Friday 6th of November: new developments in Qemu

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hi,

the next m68k developer chat will be on

Friday 6th November 2020, 19:00 H CET (18:00H / 06:00 PM UTC)

at

<https://meet.m68k.info/m68k> (will be online before the meeting 
starts)


Feature 1: New m68k target in Qemu - Laurent Vivier will talk 
about the
existing QEMU Quadra 800 emulation and the linux-user mode. He 
will
explain what are their limitations are, and then what a pure 
virtual
machine can improve. We will see what the machine can do and how 
to use

it. There will be a little demo.

Feature 2: Chroot into m68k - a seamless m68k dev environment on 
Linux

with Qemu

--
Carsten Strotmann
http://m68k.info

October m68k evening chat postponed :(

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hi,

I'm very sorry about the late notice, but I have to postpone 
tomorrows

m68k Friday chat to November 6th.

I need to finish some projects for work and need the time.

I hope you all have time on 6th of October for a session of 
"Chroot into

m68k - a seamless m68k dev environment on Linux with Qemu"



Have a good weekend

Carsten

Re: m68k developer chat 25th September - EmuTOS release 1.0 - Presentation and Discussion

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hi,

a quick reminder

Next m68k developers chat:

   Friday 25st September 2020, 19:00 H CEST (5:00 PM UTC)
   Location https://meet.m68k.info/m68k
   Feature: EmuTOS release 1.0 - Presentation and Discussion

today we also will get news about the m68k backend for LLVM.

Also, the video recording of the last m68k developers meeting is 
now

online at http://m68k.info

See you tonigh.

Greetings

Carsten

m68k developer chat 25th September - EmuTOS release 1.0 - Presentation and Discussion

[Carsten Strotmann]

Next m68k developers chat:

   Friday 25st September 2020, 19:00 H CEST (5:00 PM UTC)
   Location https://meet.m68k.info/m68k
   Feature: EmuTOS release 1.0 - Presentation and Discussion

This time we will have Christian Zietz talking about 
EmuTOS. EmuTOS is

a free operating system for computers based on Motorola 680x0 or
ColdFire microprocessors (Atari ST/TT, Amiga and others). It 
features

functionality similar to TOS, which powered the Atari ST and its
successors between 1985 and 1994.

After 19 year of development, EmuTOS reached the version 1.0 
milestone
early September this year. Christian will talk about the history 
of
the project, the features and about the internals of the 
system. This
being a developers meeting, we will also peek into the source 
code.
Prepare your questions and join for another interesting m68k 
meeting.


See you there

Carsten
https://m68k.info

m68k chat 21st Aug 2020 - "the Amitari - EmuTOS and Atari Software on the Amiga"

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hi,

the upcoming m68k developers evening chat is on

Friday 21st August 2020, 20:00 H CEST (6:00 PM UTC)

Location  (will be online 30 minutes 
before

the chat starts)

We will have a short demo: "the Amitari - EmuTOS and Atari 
Software on
the Amiga" and discuss the experiences of running Atari software 
on the
Amiga (might the reverse be possible too --> running AmigaOS 
command

line binaries on TOS?)

The schedule for the m68k chats can be found at 



CU

Carsten

Re: Debugging FPC build issue on m68k

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hello Abou Al Montacir,

Abou Al Montacir  writes:


Dear Teams,

I started looking at the m68k build issue, but the buildd logs 
are not enough to

understand what happens.
I tried to find a m68k machine on porter boxes but failed to 
find any.
Also building a qemu image does not seem as straight forward as 
I expected, so
I'd like to know if anybody can help providing access to a 
machine or a qemu

image that I can download.
Of course, any help to debug this issue is more than welcome.


I can possibly setup a machine in the Internet with qemu emulation 
for

you, and I can also send you a download link for my Debian m68k
directory and instructions on how to setup a emulated system from 
the

image download.

I can probably have that ready by Thursday this week. Let me know 
if you
would like to try that, or if you got access to a machine 
somewhere

else.

Greetings

Carsten

Re: virtual eventing chat meeting today

[Carsten Strotmann]

On 10/07/20 10:18 PM, Carsten Strotmann wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> a short reminder of the next virtual eventing chat meeting will be on
> 10th of July 2020 (today) starting at 8:00pm CEST (20:00 H) on
> <https://meet.m68k.info> (the Jitsi meeting page will be online 30
> minutes before the meeting starts.
> 

Sorry, I forgot the room name: "m68k"

So the full address is <https://meet.m68k.info/m68k>

CU

Carsten

virtual eventing chat meeting today

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hi,

a short reminder of the next virtual eventing chat meeting will be 
on

10th of July 2020 (today) starting at 8:00pm CEST (20:00 H) on
 (the Jitsi meeting page will be online 30
minutes before the meeting starts.

Based on the discussion last month I've created a prototype of an
"planet m68k" news aggregator website (that could also be used as 
a

source for a monthly newsletter) containing m68k development news.

Also, the poll for a larger m68k developers meeting in Q4/2020 is 
still

open (and will be open until end of August)



See you tonight

Carsten

Virtual m68k Developer Meeting 2020

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hi,

during a nice virtual meeting we've had on 5th of June with a 
couple a
people from the m68k community, the decision was made to organize 
a

virtual meeting for 2020 (which might be followed by a 'in person'
meeting in 2021).

I've setup a poll to find a date (or multiple dates) in 
Q4/2020. If you
are interested in joining the meeting, please go to the poll and 
fill in

your dates:


The poll will run until end of August, the date(s) for the meeting 
will

be announced in the first week of September.

The next virtual eventing chat meeting will be on 10th of July 
2020

starting at 8:00pm CEST (20:00 H) on  (the
meeting page will appear until this date [famous last words]).

Greetings

Carsten

Re: Planning a Debian/Linux m68k Meeting in 2020

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hi,

On 20.05.20 22:36, Carsten Strotmann wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Carsten Strotmann  writes:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> after the nice meeting we had in 2018, I've started planning a meeting
>> for 2020 (I'm an optimist).
>>
>> So far, there is no date or location, but I've updated the website:
>> <https://m68kmeeting.linuxkistchen.de/>
>>
>> If the current COVID-19 situation will continue over the summer, the
>> event could be held in cyberspace as a virtual conference. Maybe it is
>> alwys a good idea to offer an virtual attendance option for people who
>> cannot travel.
>>
>> I'm interested in feedback on possible locations, dates, virtual
>> conferences and such.
>>
>> Stay save
>>
>> Carsten
> 
> 
> after collecting some feedback, we will now try to get a small online
> workshop organized to discuss a possible 2020 m68k meeting (virtual or/and
> in person).
> 
> Here is a poll for a date for the planning workshop (not for the m68k
> meeting):
> 
> <https://nuudel.digitalcourage.de/li1otkp9sBrzu9Xm>
> 
> The meeting time would be 20:00 CEST.
> 
> I operate a Jitsi Video-Conference-Server we could use for the meeting,
> but I'm also open for other options.

the meeting will be this coming Friday 5th June 20:00 CEST on the Jitsi
Videoconferencing server:

<https://meet.forth-ev.de/m68k>

There is currently password protection enabled for this server, the
server will be open 30 minutes before the meeting starts.

Topics to discuss (non exhaustive):

 * virtual and/or in-person meeting options
 * location
 * date and time
 * scope (Topics for the meeting)
 * Agenda for meeting (Talks? Moderated Discussions? Training for new
project members )

If you have additions to the Agenda let me know.

See you there

Carsten



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Planning a Debian/Linux m68k Meeting in 2020

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hi,

Carsten Strotmann  writes:


Hi,

after the nice meeting we had in 2018, I've started planning a 
meeting

for 2020 (I'm an optimist).

So far, there is no date or location, but I've updated the 
website:

<https://m68kmeeting.linuxkistchen.de/>

If the current COVID-19 situation will continue over the summer, 
the
event could be held in cyberspace as a virtual conference. Maybe 
it is
alwys a good idea to offer an virtual attendance option for 
people who

cannot travel.

I'm interested in feedback on possible locations, dates, virtual
conferences and such.

Stay save

Carsten



after collecting some feedback, we will now try to get a small 
online
workshop organized to discuss a possible 2020 m68k meeting 
(virtual or/and

in person).

Here is a poll for a date for the planning workshop (not for the 
m68k

meeting):

<https://nuudel.digitalcourage.de/li1otkp9sBrzu9Xm>

The meeting time would be 20:00 CEST.

I operate a Jitsi Video-Conference-Server we could use for the 
meeting,

but I'm also open for other options.

Greetings

Carsten

Planning a Debian/Linux m68k Meeting in 2020

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hi,

after the nice meeting we had in 2018, I've started planning a 
meeting

for 2020 (I'm an optimist).

So far, there is no date or location, but I've updated the 
website:



If the current COVID-19 situation will continue over the summer, 
the
event could be held in cyberspace as a virtual conference. Maybe 
it is
alwys a good idea to offer an virtual attendance option for people 
who

cannot travel.

I'm interested in feedback on possible locations, dates, virtual
conferences and such.

Stay save

Carsten

What to do on the m68k Meeting this coming weekend?

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hi,

as a newbie and non-kernel-hacker, I'm asking myself what I can
contribute (besides organizing the event) on the meeting this 
coming

weekend.

There are probably open work items in the fields of

* documentation
* testing
* debian packages

that I can tackle.

My background: I work with Linux on x86/PPC/MIPS/ARM since 1997, 
I'm a

trainer for Linux Administration, Linux Server Security and Linux
Network Security. I also work with BSD systems. My special topics 
are

DNS, DNSSEC, DANE, DHCP and IPv6.

I know some programming (C/C++/Go/Python/Ruby/Java/Lua/Forth), but
programming is not my main work.

I'm interested in Forth Programming and I compile or port 
Forth-Systems

on anything with an CPU.

If nothing else is suggested, I will work on testing and packaging 
some

Forth-Systems on m68k Linux.

But if you have more mainstream work for me, please let me know ;)

Greetings

Carsten

Re: Reminder: m68k meeting 7th Sep to 9th Sep @ Linuxhotel / Germany

[Carsten Strotmann]

On 01.09.18 15:04, Stefan Niestegge wrote:
> 
> I could also bring the Mac LCIII (36MB, SD-on-SCSI), Ethernet. Bring or
> leave at home?

Bring. I would like to work on that.

Greetings

Carsten




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Reminder: m68k meeting 7th Sep to 9th Sep @ Linuxhotel / Germany

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hi,

a quick reminder for our meeting in September at Linuxhotel. The meeting
will take place from September 7th, 14:00 H (Friday) to September 9th,
16:00 H (Sunday).

Website with additional information:


If you want to join the 2018 m68k meeting, please write an email to
 containing the following information

Name
Choice of room (none, single, double)
special dietary needs (if any)
(optional) m68k machines/hardware that you will bring
(optional) talk/workshop you would like to give (title, duration)
permission to list your name on this website (yes / no)

I'm looking forward to meet you all in September ;)

Carsten

Webpage up and registration for the 2018 Debian m68k meeting is now open

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hi,

I finally made a webpage (sorry for the delay) and the 
registration for

the meeting in September at Linuxhotel is now open



Please let me know if any vital information is missing.

If you have additional topics that can be listed under "what to 
expect",

let me know.

I'm looking forward to meet you all in September ;)

Carsten

Re: Usage of real m68k hardware

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hi,

Andreas Tille  writes:


> Getting fake bugs of severity important due to the fact that no real
> hardware is used since it is to weak is not really convincing for
> maintainers to spent time on it.

the new 68080 CPU core might be powerful enough to build on real
hardware again:



If needbe, I'm willing to invest in and operate build hardware.

But still, hardware that is too weak to build packages does not mean
that the hardware is to weak to *run* the resulting software. A couple
of MIPS based platforms are also too weak to build packages on, but
Debian *runs* there just fine. Some build toolchains are quite bloated
these days.

Greetings

Carsten

Re: Usage of real m68k hardware

[Carsten Strotmann]

On 28.03.18 09:01, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> I don't think Andreas is on this list.

My fault, I've resend the mail to him directly.

Thanks for pointing this out.

-- CS



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Re: Usage of real m68k hardware

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hello Andreas,

On 28.03.18 08:38, Andreas Tille wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> recently some R packages received bugs that seem to stem from a problem
> with the build setup (specifically, a qemu bug).  When I asked back in
> one of the bugs[1] whether there are real m68k users I've got the answer
> 
>   ... there are still some users with actual hardware, but the
>   autobuilders use qemu for better performance and/or reliability
> 
> I conclude that the Debian project is running no real m68k hardware any
> more (please correct me if I'm wrong) and we are possibly doing a
> service for some users who potentially also run qemu (wild guess of
> mine).  I'm wondering when it might be time to fully drop a hardware
> port instead of draining developer time for ethernity.
> 
> I'm personally drawng the decision that I will tag any bug that concerns
> scientific software (which is my main focus) and that bug is on m68k
> only as wontfix and will set severity to minor.  I'm sorry but my focus
> is on real use cases and stumbling upon bugs in BTS which are not
> helping any real user is just draining time.
> 

I use m68k Debian on real m68k hardware (but not R or other scientific
software). I know at least four other people that also run/use Debian
m68k on real hardware.

My focus use of m68k is tools and development software (interpreters,
compiler, assembler).

Supporting diverse hardware platforms can expose bugs that are hidden on
mainstream platforms (such as x86 and ARM) and increase the overall code
quality. But I agree that the m68k community is quite small.

Best regards

Carsten Strotmann




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Re: m68k meetup 2018 - third attempt

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hello Adrian,

John Paul Adrian Glaubitz  writes:

> Umh, I completely missed there was a doodle and apparently many others
> did as well. You should have better send a separate mail instead of
> posting the link to a reply-mail.

The dates were also in the original mail, the doodle was just an
'add-on'.


>
> Are there really just three participants?

in the doodle, yes. But I expence once the webpage is up and some more
information is send around, that we get more attendees.

Does the weekend work for you?

Greetings

Carsten

Re: m68k meetup 2018 - third attempt

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hi,

On 01.03.18 23:06, Stefan Niestegge wrote:
>>
>> Possible are the weekends
>>
>> 7-9.9.
>> 14-16.9.

I've now booked the 7-9.9. date with Linuxhotel.

I will prepare a simple website for the event this week with (hopefully)
all the relevant information.

>>
>> I need to confirm or cancel one of the dates by end of next week.
>>
>> Which one would you prefer?
> 
> I prefer first option. To make things easier, i created a doodle:
> 
> https://doodle.com/poll/xx5zcw36e3ivr6ak
> 
> That link can easily be shared to other lists or forums.
> 

@Stefan: can you close the doodle?

Greetings

Carsten



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m68k meetup 2018 - third attempt

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hi,

I've cancelled the slot with Linuxhotel in May and requested weekend
dates for a community meeting in September 2018.

Possible are the weekends

7-9.9.
14-16.9.

I need to confirm or cancel one of the dates by end of next week.

Which one would you prefer?

Greetings

Carsten



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Re: m68k meetup 2018 - second attempt

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hi Ingo,

Ingo Jürgensmann  writes:


>
> I know that the Amiga scene is still quite active, like in the forum
> at a1k.org. I don’t think that you would gain many participants when
> limiting the invitation to this mailing list. Topics like GCC
> improvements and general portability issues also apply to Netbsd 68k
> and all those Amigans that port software to AmigaOS.

This is an excellent idea.

I will create a simple webpage that can work as a focus for the meeting
information (either for the meeting in May, or later during semester
break).


I can post to the netbsd lists, and I'm on the Amiga Osnbarueck list
(Geit and Co). I will also post on the vintage computer festival europe
mailing list. Stefan "Beetle" probably has connection to some Atari
m86k lists.


>
> And what about maybe Jens Schoenfeld or other hardware vendors?
>

I have no contacts there, but Essen would not be too far away from Jens
if I remember correctly.

> So, maybe it’s a good idea to extend the invitation to these groups as
> well (and find a new date).
>
> Speaking of myself: I’m quite interested in joining, but currently I
> can not oversee everything that might interfere with the date and so
> the propability of me showing up is maybe 75%.

Yep, let's find a new date later in the year.

Greetings

Carsten

Re: m68k meetup 2018 - second attempt

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hello Christian,


Christian T. Steigies  writes:


>> > Can you post the exact dates again? I am definitely interested and
>> > I think at least Christian would be interested as well.
>> > 
>> 
>>  Weekend 25 - 27.5.
>
> I am interested, but not that week. Also, I will probably be teaching
> fridays until 6pm, so I still prefer the semester break since it takes me at
> least 5 hours to get to Essen.
>


when would be the semester break in Q3 or Q4? I can inquire for dates at
Linuxhotel for a new date in the semester break time.

We can also meet in Kiel then.


Greetings

Carsten

Re: m68k meetup 2018 - second attempt

[Carsten Strotmann]

On 23.02.18 11:50, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On 02/23/2018 11:34 AM, Carsten Strotmann wrote:
>> On 16.02.18 16:12, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, I think you should wait for confirmation from other folk.
>>>
>>> It doesn't really make sense to have a meetup if only three people
>>> show up :).
>>
>> So far the feedback has not been overwhelming. Maybe May is not the best
>> time of the year.
> 
> Can you post the exact dates again? I am definitely interested and
> I think at least Christian would be interested as well.
> 

 Weekend 25 - 27.5.

-- CS



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Re: m68k meetup 2018 - second attempt

[Carsten Strotmann]

On 16.02.18 16:12, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> 
> Well, I think you should wait for confirmation from other folk.
> 
> It doesn't really make sense to have a meetup if only three people
> show up :).

So far the feedback has not been overwhelming. Maybe May is not the best
time of the year.

I need to confirm with Linuxhotel next Monday. If there are not some
more people interested, I need to cancel for May and we should look for
a meeting later in the year.

Greetings

Carsten



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Re: m68k meetup 2018 - second attempt

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hi Ingo,

Ingo Jürgensmann <i...@2018.bluespice.org> writes:

> Am 15.02.2018 um 09:57 schrieb Carsten Strotmann <cars...@strotmann.de>:
>
>> Price would be 55 Euro per person for 3 days (2 nights) Friday 25.5. to
>> Sunday 27.5.
>> This includes:
>> * accomodation in double room
>> * breakfast Saturday and Sunday morning
>> * free Wifi, Beer, Softdrinks, Coffee/Tea "flatrate"
>> * large meeting room with projector, Whiteboard, Ethernet-LAN
>
> What about single rooms?

Possible, but slightly more expensive. Probably 5 Euro/day more, 65 Euro total.

> So, basically I’m interested to join, but I’m unsure if I fit in as
> I’m not a developer, so I can’t contribute that much. But I still have
> some BigRamPlus cards that should be put into some buildds (the memory
> mapping issue is still open, though).

Neither Stefan "Beetle" nor myself are (debian m68k-) developer. But we
can help by brining our (exotic/old) hardware, help testing, help
documentation and writing "how-to's" and give moral support.

It might be good for a developer to meet users, talk to them and have
fun together.

You are much welcome.

Carsten

Re: m68k meetup 2018 - second attempt

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hi,

Carsten Strotmann <cars...@strotmann.de> writes:

> Hi,
>
>>
>> May would work, or later in the year. I will check with Linuxhotel about
>> free weekends in May and later.
>
> The Weekend 25 - 27.5. is available for a Community meetup at
> Linuxhotel.
>
> Who would be able to come on that weekend?

some more additional information:

Price would be 55 Euro per person for 3 days (2 nights) Friday 25.5. to
Sunday 27.5.

This includes:
 * accomodation in double room
 * breakfast Saturday and Sunday morning
 * free Wifi, Beer, Softdrinks, Coffee/Tea "flatrate"
 * large meeting room with projector, Whiteboard, Ethernet-LAN

I will sponsor an grill event on Saturday evening (if the weather is
good e.g. not raining) or Pizza for all.

Please let me know ASAP if this date would work for you, else we need to
find another date, possibly after summer.

Greetings

Carsten

Re: m68k meetup 2018 - second attempt

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hi,

>
> May would work, or later in the year. I will check with Linuxhotel about
> free weekends in May and later.

The Weekend 25 - 27.5. is available for a Community meetup at
Linuxhotel.

Who would be able to come on that weekend?

Carsten

Re: m68k meetup 2018 - second attempt

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hallo,

John Paul Adrian Glaubitz <glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de> writes:

>
> I had a private discussion with Stefan Niestegge and he said, he and
> Carsten Strotmann would be willing to organize the event in the Linux
> Hotel in Essen.
>
> Maybe Stefan and Carsten could comment on what the options here would
> be. If we can manage to arrange a meetup in Linux Hotel in April
> or May, I would be fine with that, too.

I'm already organizing an open source conference at Linuxhotel in April
(https://tagung.forth-ev.de/), another one would be overload for me.

May would work, or later in the year. I will check with Linuxhotel about
free weekends in May and later.

-- Carsten

Re: m68k meetup 2018 - second attempt

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hi,

John Paul Adrian Glaubitz  writes:

> Hi!
>
> Since the last thread seems to have died down, let's try a second round.
> Who would be interested in a Debian m68k meeting in 2018?
>
> The alternatives would be Kiel at the local university or the Linuxhotel
> in Essen. Since I have never been to Kiel before, I would be interested
> in having the meetup there :).
>
> Opinions?
>
> Adrian

I'm interested, but it also depends on the date. September/October might
go.

Carsten

Re: Debian 68k meeting in 2018

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hi,

John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:

> Any suggestions for a venue?

I offer to organize a meeting at Linuxhotel (http://linuxhotel.de) in 
Essen/Germany.


Prices are low (for open source community meetings, around 40 
Euro/Weekend/per Person), we have network, hotel rooms and meeting rooms 
on venue in a nice park.


And Linuxhotel would fit the meeting theme :)

Linuxhotel is especially nice in Spring/Summer.

Best regards

Carsten Strotmann
(just a random Debian m68K user)