Re: Upcoming l10n uploads

2023-05-24 Thread Cyril Brulebois
Hi Holger,

Cyril Brulebois  (2023-05-23):
> I've seen a few uploads happen already. Since I'm almost done with all
> topics I wanted to investigate for Bookworm, I'll move to l10n uploads
> today.

Oops, I managed to disappear in some rabbit hole and you did most of the
work there… sorry and thanks!

I've uploaded a few more packages this morning, and looking at the
remaining ones, I agree that it's not really worth it: a few typographic
adjustments or possible typo fixes in nn.po, but other changes are
present in some repositories (debhelper compat bump or things like
that), so I won't go further — if there were more important changes we
could easily fork a bookworm branch from the last tag, cherry-pick l10n
updates, and release from there.


Could you please push your tags too? As far as I can see, the master
branches were pushed, but not the tags.

For what it's worth, I'm using the following most of the time to make
sure I'm pushing both the current branch and the associated tag:

git push origin HEAD $(git describe)

(If a tag wasn't created, the output of `git describe` can't be pushed,
and the above command will generate an obvious error message.)


Cheers,
-- 
Cyril Brulebois (k...@debian.org)
D-I release manager -- Release team member -- Freelance Consultant


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature


Re: Upcoming l10n uploads

2023-05-23 Thread Cyril Brulebois
Hi,

Holger Wansing  (2023-05-16):
> I would propose to wait some days, let's say 5 days (if this timeline is
> fine for you), and then we make a cut and close the window for bookworm.

I've seen a few uploads happen already. Since I'm almost done with all
topics I wanted to investigate for Bookworm, I'll move to l10n uploads
today.

The planning for RC 4 is still uncertain at this time:
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-release/2023/05/msg00824.html

but I'm not planning on looking at other packages once I'm done with the
existing and upcoming l10n uploads, unless there's a very good reason to
do so.


Cheers,
-- 
Cyril Brulebois (k...@debian.org)
D-I release manager -- Release team member -- Freelance Consultant


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature


Re: Upcoming l10n uploads

2023-05-17 Thread Holger Wansing
Hi,

Am 16. Mai 2023 23:40:47 MESZ schrieb Cyril Brulebois :
>Enforcing a string freeze would have meant not being able to address
>those issues.

For sure, every medal has two sides.

>That being said, I don't think we've had many *changes* to existing
>strings, even less so late in the release cycle.
>
>So if that looks like a plan to you, we could decide to announce a
>string freeze, maybe matching a given freeze milestone[1], to resume
>sending a signal to translators. We should probably add some kind of
>warning or disclaimer, saying we shouldn't have changes to existing
>translations, but that some additions might still happen if absolutely
>required (which was the case for grub/grub-installer this cycle).
>
> 1. https://release.debian.org/testing/freeze_policy.html
>
>What do you think?

Sounds not bad...


Holger

-- 
Sent from /e/ OS on Fairphone3



Re: Upcoming l10n uploads

2023-05-16 Thread Cyril Brulebois
Hi,

Holger Wansing  (2023-05-16):
> I would propose to wait some days, let's say 5 days (if this timeline
> is fine for you), and then we make a cut and close the window for
> bookworm.

That's fine with me.

> For whatever reason translators come active at the very last this
> time; maybe that's because we have nothing like a string freeze, as
> it was some time in the past.

Given what happened on the grub/grub-installer front, I'm not sure a
string freeze is something we could enforce: dealing with possible
“neighbor” operating systems as always been brittle as far as I
understood it, with os-prober doing its best to spot them, but also
triggering side effects. Disabling it altogether upset users (which
I found understandable), so we had to try and come up with a solution
to accommodate for those use cases, while also finally limiting side
effects on virtualized environments.

Enforcing a string freeze would have meant not being able to address
those issues.

That being said, I don't think we've had many *changes* to existing
strings, even less so late in the release cycle.

So if that looks like a plan to you, we could decide to announce a
string freeze, maybe matching a given freeze milestone[1], to resume
sending a signal to translators. We should probably add some kind of
warning or disclaimer, saying we shouldn't have changes to existing
translations, but that some additions might still happen if absolutely
required (which was the case for grub/grub-installer this cycle).

 1. https://release.debian.org/testing/freeze_policy.html

What do you think?

> A very significant part of development happens at the very end of
> the development cycle in d-i, if not during freeze. Which can be
> considered as a kind of ignorance regarding translations.

I can't speak for others, but I can guarantee you I'm very well aware
of what translation work looks like, what coordination work probably
looks like (I haven't done that for l10n myself, but I do a fair bit
in other areas)… and that I've tried to communicate that to my fellow
developers when those string additions came up. And I also had that in
mind when I added some myself (non-free-firmware related, even if only
shown in expert mode), with a freeze already started.

And yet, I work on the installer when I can and/or when I must. And
yes, that's usually late in the release cycle. :/ I suppose everyone
has their own constraints and nobody really wants to hurt l10n
efforts.

> Anyway, we can take it as it is, and to make the best of this,
> postpone the latest uploads as much as we can. Thus, my best plan
> would be to start with the last round of l10n uploads during the
> coming weekend.
> 
> How does that sound?

Whatever works for you is going to work for me!

We'll see how the discussion with the release team goes (in a few
days), and what the final timeline for l10n uploads will look like.
I didn't think much about RC 4 yet, my only focus until today was
releasing RC 3 (and not screwing up the debian-cd part). ;)


Cheers,
-- 
Cyril Brulebois (k...@debian.org)
D-I release manager -- Release team member -- Freelance Consultant


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature


Re: Upcoming l10n uploads

2023-05-16 Thread Holger Wansing
Hi,

Cyril Brulebois  wrote (Tue, 16 May 2023 22:38:51 +0200): 
> Holger: Those uploads can happen at any time, and I'm happy to perform
> a bunch of them. I see translations.txt already filled up; but I know
> at least Turkish is coming. Should I wait a few hours or days before
> starting those uploads?

I would propose to wait some days, let's say 5 days (if this timeline is fine
for you), and then we make a cut and close the window for bookworm.

For whatever reason translators come active at the very last this time;
maybe that's because we have nothing like a string freeze, as it was
some time in the past.

A very significant part of development happens at the very end of the
development cycle in d-i, if not during freeze.
Which can be considered as a kind of ignorance regarding translations.

Anyway, we can take it as it is, and to make the best of this, postpone
the latest uploads as much as we can.
Thus, my best plan would be to start with the last round of l10n uploads
during the coming weekend.

How does that sound?


Holger




-- 
Holger Wansing 
PGP-Fingerprint: 496A C6E8 1442 4B34 8508  3529 59F1 87CA 156E B076