Bug#787953: depends on obsolete libasm2-java library

[Markus Koschany]

Am 24.10.2015 um 23:19 schrieb Felix Natter:
> Markus Koschany  writes:
> 
>> Hi Felix,
> 
> hello Markus,
> 
> I just added a patch for ASM5/libasm4-java support:
>   
> https://github.com/fnatter/insubstantial-debian/commit/b6f1dee8e4fc53a0dfb8dd3ec3dc58e498a78828
> 
> It compiles, but I am not 100% sure it is correct, so I will soon test
> this with an r-dep and submit the changes for review in an ASM forum.

Hi Felix,

many thanks for working on this!

Cheers,

Markus




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Bug#787953: depends on obsolete libasm2-java library

[Felix Natter]

Markus Koschany  writes:

> Hi Felix,

hello Markus,

I just added a patch for ASM5/libasm4-java support:
  
https://github.com/fnatter/insubstantial-debian/commit/b6f1dee8e4fc53a0dfb8dd3ec3dc58e498a78828

It compiles, but I am not 100% sure it is correct, so I will soon test
this with an r-dep and submit the changes for review in an ASM forum.

> Am 09.10.2015 um 23:19 schrieb Felix Natter:
>> Markus Koschany  writes:
> [...]
>> 
>> Please also tell him/her that I have patches for converting jajuk to
>> insubstantial 7.3:
>>   
>> https://github.com/fnatter/insubstantial-debian/blob/rdeps/rdeps/jajuk/05_insubstantial_7.3.diff
>>   
>> https://github.com/fnatter/insubstantial-debian/blob/rdeps/rdeps/jajuk/MANIFEST.MF.diff
>
> I just did:
>
> https://github.com/jajuk-team/jajuk/issues/1994

Great, I will reply there.

> [...]
>>>
>>> 1. Go ahead and package insubstantial as one source package that
>>> provides the old binary packages from substance, trident,
>>> liblaf-widget-java, etc. Maven poms should be provided as well. If you
>>> also provide a patch to build with libasm4-java we could easily replace
>>> the old dependencies for jajuk, bgfinancas, triplea and freeplane with
>>> your new version and remove libasm2-java from Debian. (only
>>> jasperreports would be an open issue but I would invest the time to fix
>>> this package myself)
>> 
>> Agreed, I will work on providing poms. Two questions:
>> 
>> - can you think of a role model package for installing maven artifacts?
>> 
>> - Do I have to generate poms via gradle or shall/can I use+modify the
>>   ones from maven.org?
>>   
>> (http://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails|com.github.insubstantial|flamingo|7.3|jar)
>
> You can usually reuse the poms from maven.org. You can either use
> javahelper + jh_maven_repo_helper
>
> https://packages.qa.debian.org/libj/libjide-oss-java.html
>
> or you can also depend on maven-debian-helper in addition to your normal
> build system and install them too.
>
> I think we figure that out as soon insubstantial is ported to
> libasm4-java. Just ask on debian-java for a review.

Ok, I will ask on debian-java regarding pom support.

Cheers and Best Regards,
-- 
Felix Natter

Bug#787953: depends on obsolete libasm2-java library

[Markus Koschany]

Hello,

FTR: As already noted in the initial bug report, substance and its
dependency liblaf-widget-java are unmaintained. Last version was
released in 2010.

https://java.net/projects/substance

Last Github snapshot:

https://github.com/kirillcool/substance

substance was forked into insubstantial:

https://github.com/Insubstantial/insubstantial

and Felix Natter (CCed) intended to maintain it for Debian (#787953).

Unfortunately insubstantial is also unmaintained now and still depends
on asm2.

I think it only makes sense to replace substance and its libraries with
insubstantial when upstream development continues and asm2 is replaced
with a newer, Java 7+ compatible version.

I am going to file bug reports against Jajuk and bgfinancas which depend
on substance and ask that they either move away from substance or take
over maintenance.

I have opened an upstream bug report for Jajuk already:

https://github.com/jajuk-team/jajuk/issues/1994


Regards,

Markus



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Bug#787953: depends on obsolete libasm2-java library

[Felix Natter]

Markus Koschany  writes:

> Hi!

hello Markus,

> Am 09.10.2015 um 21:01 schrieb Felix Natter:
>> Markus Koschany  writes:
> [...]
>>> Unfortunately insubstantial is also unmaintained now and still depends
>>> on asm2.
>>>
>>> I think it only makes sense to replace substance and its libraries with
>>> insubstantial when upstream development continues and asm2 is replaced
>>> with a newer, Java 7+ compatible version.
>> 
>> Are you sure? I was able to build insubstantial (7.3) with asm2 and used
>> the resulting package in the r-deps jajuk/bgfinancas/triplea[2]/freeplane)
>> where it worked fine.
>
> My concerns are not about building insubstantial with asm2. That works.
> I query whether it makes sense to switch from one unmaintained project
> (substance, liblaf-widget-java, trident, etc) to another one
> (insubstantial).
>
> http://speling.shemnon.com/blog/2013/06/08/insubstantial-needs-a-new-maintainer/

I think it does, see below.

> If you really intend to maintain insubstantial you should be prepared to
> do development work as bug fixing or switching from asm2 to asm5 too.
> Otherwise we and you invest a lot of time for a switch but without a
> significant gain.

The significant gain is that we don't have to rewrite large parts of
freeplane 1.4 and triplea 1.8.

>> [2] triplea 1.8 will require insubstantial (7.3):
>> http://sourceforge.net/p/triplea/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/triplea/changelog.txt
>
> The Debian package of triplea currently recommends substance and I think
> this will remain when 1.8 is packaged. Making a LAF-theme optional is
> one of the solutions I can think of.

It's certainly easier to use insubstantial than to patch freeplane-1.4
and triplea-1.8.

>> A quick search in the history (http://asm.ow2.org/history.html) did not
>> reveal anything.  They claim that ASM4 will "full[y] support of Java 7"
>> and ASM5 will "Full[y] support of Java 8" but does that really mean that
>> it does not work with java7/java8?
>> 
>> But reading #801322/#801323, I guess you argue that libasm2 must be
>> removed from the archive.
>
> Careful. asm2 was released ten years ago and is currently packaged in
> libasm2-java. The latest version of asm is packaged in libasm4-java
> (actually asm5). I have only filed those bug reports because I would
> like to see modern packages use the latest version of asm and not
> something from the last decade. So libasm4-java is fully supported
> upstream. I just care and want to clean up a little and to remove (very)
> old packages. Maintaining several versions of the same library in Debian
> should be the exception, even for Java.
>
>>> I am going to file bug reports against Jajuk and bgfinancas which depend
>>> on substance and ask that they either move away from substance or take
>>> over maintenance.
>> 
>> Moving away from flamingo/substance/trident is _a lot_ of work. For
>> freeplane this would mean rewriting the user interface (ribbons).
>> The jajuk maintainers tell similar things [3]
>> (though it's easier for jajuk because they "only" use substance L)
>> 
>> [3] https://github.com/jajuk-team/jajuk/issues/1994
>
> I have to further discuss this with the upstream developer of Jajuk but
> he indicated that he could be willing to switch to Nimbus as the default
> theme. He might also be interested in helping you to port insubstantial
> to asm5 (libasm4-java). I will ask him.

+1 for porting, thanks!

Please also tell him/her that I have patches for converting jajuk to
insubstantial 7.3:
  
https://github.com/fnatter/insubstantial-debian/blob/rdeps/rdeps/jajuk/05_insubstantial_7.3.diff
  
https://github.com/fnatter/insubstantial-debian/blob/rdeps/rdeps/jajuk/MANIFEST.MF.diff

>>> I have opened an upstream bug report for Jajuk already:
>>>
>>> https://github.com/jajuk-team/jajuk/issues/1994
>> 
>> How about trying to add a Debian patch to make insubstantial (7.3) build
>> with asm4 (if that is necessary)? Shall I look into it?
>
> That would be definitely one of the preferred options to solve this issue.
>
> I see the following option:
>
> 1. Go ahead and package insubstantial as one source package that
> provides the old binary packages from substance, trident,
> liblaf-widget-java, etc. Maven poms should be provided as well. If you
> also provide a patch to build with libasm4-java we could easily replace
> the old dependencies for jajuk, bgfinancas, triplea and freeplane with
> your new version and remove libasm2-java from Debian. (only
> jasperreports would be an open issue but I would invest the time to fix
> this package myself)

Agreed, I will work on providing poms. Two questions:

- can you think of a role model package for installing maven artifacts?

- Do I have to generate poms via gradle or shall/can I use+modify the
  ones from maven.org?
  
(http://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails|com.github.insubstantial|flamingo|7.3|jar)

> Win-Win situation
>
> 2. Make substance an optional theme and use Nimbus or other standard 

Bug#787953: depends on obsolete libasm2-java library

[Markus Koschany]

Hi Felix,

Am 09.10.2015 um 23:19 schrieb Felix Natter:
> Markus Koschany  writes:
[...]
> 
> Please also tell him/her that I have patches for converting jajuk to
> insubstantial 7.3:
>   
> https://github.com/fnatter/insubstantial-debian/blob/rdeps/rdeps/jajuk/05_insubstantial_7.3.diff
>   
> https://github.com/fnatter/insubstantial-debian/blob/rdeps/rdeps/jajuk/MANIFEST.MF.diff

I just did:

https://github.com/jajuk-team/jajuk/issues/1994

[...]
>>
>> 1. Go ahead and package insubstantial as one source package that
>> provides the old binary packages from substance, trident,
>> liblaf-widget-java, etc. Maven poms should be provided as well. If you
>> also provide a patch to build with libasm4-java we could easily replace
>> the old dependencies for jajuk, bgfinancas, triplea and freeplane with
>> your new version and remove libasm2-java from Debian. (only
>> jasperreports would be an open issue but I would invest the time to fix
>> this package myself)
> 
> Agreed, I will work on providing poms. Two questions:
> 
> - can you think of a role model package for installing maven artifacts?
> 
> - Do I have to generate poms via gradle or shall/can I use+modify the
>   ones from maven.org?
>   
> (http://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails|com.github.insubstantial|flamingo|7.3|jar)

You can usually reuse the poms from maven.org. You can either use
javahelper + jh_maven_repo_helper

https://packages.qa.debian.org/libj/libjide-oss-java.html

or you can also depend on maven-debian-helper in addition to your normal
build system and install them too.

I think we figure that out as soon insubstantial is ported to
libasm4-java. Just ask on debian-java for a review.

Cheers,

Markus






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Bug#787953: depends on obsolete libasm2-java library

[Felix Natter]

Markus Koschany  writes:

> Hello,

hello Markus,

> FTR: As already noted in the initial bug report, substance and its
> dependency liblaf-widget-java are unmaintained. Last version was
> released in 2010.
>
> https://java.net/projects/substance
>
> Last Github snapshot:
>
> https://github.com/kirillcool/substance
>
> substance was forked into insubstantial:

(Not just substance, all 7 flamingo/substance/trident packages)

> https://github.com/Insubstantial/insubstantial
>
> and Felix Natter (CCed) intended to maintain it for Debian (#787953).

Yes, I need this for the upcoming freeplane 1.4 (I also have patches for
the r-deps) :-)

I will soon fix some copyright problems that Tony (CC) told be about.

I already argued in favor of the upgrade on debian-java:
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-java/2015/08/msg00043.html

> Unfortunately insubstantial is also unmaintained now and still depends
> on asm2.
>
> I think it only makes sense to replace substance and its libraries with
> insubstantial when upstream development continues and asm2 is replaced
> with a newer, Java 7+ compatible version.

Are you sure? I was able to build insubstantial (7.3) with asm2 and used
the resulting package in the r-deps jajuk/bgfinancas/triplea[2]/freeplane)
where it worked fine.

[2] triplea 1.8 will require insubstantial (7.3):
http://sourceforge.net/p/triplea/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/triplea/changelog.txt

A quick search in the history (http://asm.ow2.org/history.html) did not
reveal anything.  They claim that ASM4 will "full[y] support of Java 7"
and ASM5 will "Full[y] support of Java 8" but does that really mean that
it does not work with java7/java8?

But reading #801322/#801323, I guess you argue that libasm2 must be
removed from the archive.

> I am going to file bug reports against Jajuk and bgfinancas which depend
> on substance and ask that they either move away from substance or take
> over maintenance.

Moving away from flamingo/substance/trident is _a lot_ of work. For
freeplane this would mean rewriting the user interface (ribbons).
The jajuk maintainers tell similar things [3]
(though it's easier for jajuk because they "only" use substance L)

[3] https://github.com/jajuk-team/jajuk/issues/1994

> I have opened an upstream bug report for Jajuk already:
>
> https://github.com/jajuk-team/jajuk/issues/1994

How about trying to add a Debian patch to make insubstantial (7.3) build
with asm4 (if that is necessary)? Shall I look into it?

Cheers and Best Regards,
-- 
Felix Natter

Bug#787953: depends on obsolete libasm2-java library

[Markus Koschany]

Hi!

Am 09.10.2015 um 21:01 schrieb Felix Natter:
> Markus Koschany  writes:
[...]
>> Unfortunately insubstantial is also unmaintained now and still depends
>> on asm2.
>>
>> I think it only makes sense to replace substance and its libraries with
>> insubstantial when upstream development continues and asm2 is replaced
>> with a newer, Java 7+ compatible version.
> 
> Are you sure? I was able to build insubstantial (7.3) with asm2 and used
> the resulting package in the r-deps jajuk/bgfinancas/triplea[2]/freeplane)
> where it worked fine.

My concerns are not about building insubstantial with asm2. That works.
I query whether it makes sense to switch from one unmaintained project
(substance, liblaf-widget-java, trident, etc) to another one
(insubstantial).

http://speling.shemnon.com/blog/2013/06/08/insubstantial-needs-a-new-maintainer/

If you really intend to maintain insubstantial you should be prepared to
do development work as bug fixing or switching from asm2 to asm5 too.
Otherwise we and you invest a lot of time for a switch but without a
significant gain.


> [2] triplea 1.8 will require insubstantial (7.3):
> http://sourceforge.net/p/triplea/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/triplea/changelog.txt

The Debian package of triplea currently recommends substance and I think
this will remain when 1.8 is packaged. Making a LAF-theme optional is
one of the solutions I can think of.

> 
> A quick search in the history (http://asm.ow2.org/history.html) did not
> reveal anything.  They claim that ASM4 will "full[y] support of Java 7"
> and ASM5 will "Full[y] support of Java 8" but does that really mean that
> it does not work with java7/java8?
> 
> But reading #801322/#801323, I guess you argue that libasm2 must be
> removed from the archive.

Careful. asm2 was released ten years ago and is currently packaged in
libasm2-java. The latest version of asm is packaged in libasm4-java
(actually asm5). I have only filed those bug reports because I would
like to see modern packages use the latest version of asm and not
something from the last decade. So libasm4-java is fully supported
upstream. I just care and want to clean up a little and to remove (very)
old packages. Maintaining several versions of the same library in Debian
should be the exception, even for Java.

>> I am going to file bug reports against Jajuk and bgfinancas which depend
>> on substance and ask that they either move away from substance or take
>> over maintenance.
> 
> Moving away from flamingo/substance/trident is _a lot_ of work. For
> freeplane this would mean rewriting the user interface (ribbons).
> The jajuk maintainers tell similar things [3]
> (though it's easier for jajuk because they "only" use substance L)
> 
> [3] https://github.com/jajuk-team/jajuk/issues/1994

I have to further discuss this with the upstream developer of Jajuk but
he indicated that he could be willing to switch to Nimbus as the default
theme. He might also be interested in helping you to port insubstantial
to asm5 (libasm4-java). I will ask him.

>> I have opened an upstream bug report for Jajuk already:
>>
>> https://github.com/jajuk-team/jajuk/issues/1994
> 
> How about trying to add a Debian patch to make insubstantial (7.3) build
> with asm4 (if that is necessary)? Shall I look into it?

That would be definitely one of the preferred options to solve this issue.

I see the following option:

1. Go ahead and package insubstantial as one source package that
provides the old binary packages from substance, trident,
liblaf-widget-java, etc. Maven poms should be provided as well. If you
also provide a patch to build with libasm4-java we could easily replace
the old dependencies for jajuk, bgfinancas, triplea and freeplane with
your new version and remove libasm2-java from Debian. (only
jasperreports would be an open issue but I would invest the time to fix
this package myself)

Win-Win situation

2. Make substance an optional theme and use Nimbus or other standard themes.

3. Do not depend on unmaintained software like substance at all. ;-)

Cheers,

Markus







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