Bug#979614: seamly2d: virtually dead fork of valentina
Hi, My name is Roman, and I am the developer of the Valentina project. > Seamly2D is a fork of Valentina. Technically it is not true. I have left the original project. Thus, current Valentina is a fork of what is left of Valentina after rename. > well, compared to valentina it seems to have way more pull requests and is at least very responsive to requests. Technically this may be true. Don't follow their code base anymore. But I know better than most what it takes to add a really significant change. I don't know what do you mean by "very responsive to requests" when they cannot deliver any significant feature. How they can cover any need of pattern maker except of kind words? If low number of PRs and slow progress was caused by me back then, then why do we have this bug report? Something is not right here. Do you know a list of changes to Valentina since the fork? Can you compare two lists for the projects? Do you think some small PRs can beat a number of my changes? > I think keeping one of them in Debian is the better option. Before doing this, please check if the packages will be compatible. I mean, there is a chance we still use the same names of libraries. I don't care much about versions of internal libraries. Thus, S2D can rely on the same library name, but on API/ABI level they will not be compatible with Valentina. > Any idea why there is a fork at all? Susan and I have different points of view on how to develop the project. Plus there must be only one leader. I am more than happy that I have made a fork. > Seems to me that Seamly2D is similarly a one-woman-show - difference (disregarding sexes) being that one is good with code and the other is good with words and people. I must admit that she is a very passionate woman in what she does. PR is her strong side, not mine. I have realized that trying to explain people that S2D is "dead" without developers is pointless for people who don't understand the importance of developers and expertise. They see good people around with promises of a bright future. How long you can lie to people like this? Well quite long, up to 4 years. My solution? Don't waist time on talking. Show them real progress and real pattern making application. > I was hoping that the strong community of Seamly2D would lead to more sample documents than the relatively few shipped with Valentina I have ideas why people are not willing to share their patterns. Pattern makers at all are very far from open source and participating in it. They mostly care about making patterns and asking for features. A complete separate world to what I had expected. > But I might be wrong. Or maybe code is largely "done" and only _need_ smaller polishing. What? No! Code is far from "done". S2D just struggled to find a developer. It would be interesting to see how they would manage to port code to Qt 6. :) > Was probably easy as the valentina-project page points to seamly now, which is rather sad. Susan controlled a forum and the project web page. No way she would give me opportunity to win in PR war. :D > I also gave that a try: and they are not compatible anymore, although > seamly still says valentina format. Which is.. stupid. This is something new for me. I did not have reports from users. Don't plan to fix, though. > "Susan Spencer got the valentina-project.org domain name and the website as part of the separation deal." It was a divorce. I was a gentleman and left my "wife" a house, a car, our dog and our bugs. But not my expertise and my name. - Roman
Bug#979614: seamly2d: virtually dead fork of valentina
Quoting Bernd Zeimetz (2021-01-10 13:05:47) > > > On 1/10/21 10:20 AM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > > Quoting Bernd Zeimetz (2021-01-09 22:09:06) > >> Would have been nice to know about that after I've opened the RFP > >> bug - to be hones I haven't even been able to find valentina with > >> apt, maybe I've searched for the wrong words. > > > > For future sake, I recommend to share RFPs and ITPs to > > debian-devel@l.d.o as is the default for reportbug > > Thats why I've used reportbug, would have expected that that happens. That's odd. Maybe you have a ~/.reportbugrc file suppressing it? > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentina_(software) has a summary, > > with link to a longer blog entry about it. > > > > Following trails from there, I found this post which seems > > essential: > > https://web.archive.org/web/20171216140149/http://valentinaproject.forumotion.me/t23-my-vision > > I've searched a bit, also found > https://librearts.org/2017/12/valentina-seamly2d/ > which is the mentioned blog entry. Yes, that is the page linked from Wikipedia. > > Seems to me that Seamly2D has created a stronger brand with more > > fans, whereas Valentina has more programmers involved (i.e. has > > "only one" or "one at all", depending how you look at it). > > Was probably easy as the valentina-project page points to seamly now, > which is rather sad. Please use URLs. I don't think https://valentinaproject.bitbucket.io/ points to Seamly2D anywhere. If you are talking about http://valentina-project.org/ then yes, as the librearts article you link to above said, "Susan Spencer got the valentina-project.org domain name and the website as part of the separation deal." - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Bug#979614: seamly2d: virtually dead fork of valentina
On 1/10/21 10:20 AM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > Quoting Bernd Zeimetz (2021-01-09 22:09:06) >>> Since then, he continued develop under original project name >>> Valentina, whereas Seamly2D virtually stalled with no substantial >>> code changes , only superficial changes to build infrastructure, >>> locales, and icons. >> >> well, compared to valentina it seems to have way more pull requests >> and is at least very responsive to requests. Looking on valentina it >> seems to be a one-man-show - more or less. > > Seems to me that Seamly2D is similarly a one-woman-show - difference > (disregarding sexes) being that one is good with code and the other is > good with words and people. I think its a woman and a man, at least according to the commits. There is a long list of issues with interesting ideas, more pushing towards cloud and similar features. > But I might be wrong. Or maybe code is largely "done" and only _need_ > smaller polishing. Definitely not, there are some new features like keyboard shortcuts (imho not chosen wisely, but thats my taste probably). >>> I recommend that Debian does not carry Seamly3D, and encourage >>> helping out with maintaining Valentina instead. >> >> Would have been nice to know about that after I've opened the RFP bug >> - to be hones I haven't even been able to find valentina with apt, >> maybe I've searched for the wrong words. > > For future sake, I recommend to share RFPs and ITPs to > debian-devel@l.d.o as is the default for reportbug Thats why I've used reportbug, would have expected that that happens. > That said, you got a point about keywords - and curiously, you didn't > add "sewing" to long description of Seamly2D either :-P true. we've copied the same text ;) > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentina_(software) has a summary, with > link to a longer blog entry about it. > > Following trails from there, I found this post which seems essential: > https://web.archive.org/web/20171216140149/http://valentinaproject.forumotion.me/t23-my-vision I've searched a bit, also found https://librearts.org/2017/12/valentina-seamly2d/ which is the mentioned blog entry. > I found no similar information from Seamly2D side of the fork. If you > find any then please do share. Me neither. > Seems to me that Seamly2D has created a stronger brand with more fans, > whereas Valentina has more programmers involved (i.e. has "only one" or > "one at all", depending how you look at it). Was probably easy as the valentina-project page points to seamly now, which is rather sad. > I was hoping that the strong community of Seamly2D would lead to more > sample documents than the relatively few shipped with Valentina, but I > have so far not been able to locate any, and it seems all blog posts in > Seamly2D shares only PDFs, no *source* patterns. Therefore I also am > unaware how compatible Valentina and Seamly2D is in their document > formats, if at all. I also gave that a try: and they are not compatible anymore, although seamly still says valentina format. Which is.. stupid. It was easy to fix with 3676 sed 's,solidLine,hair,g' -i hike_and_fly_backpack.val 3678 sed 's,lineType,typeLine,g' -i hike_and_fly_backpack.val I'd have expected a new file format name and extension. -- Bernd ZeimetzDebian GNU/Linux Developer http://bzed.dehttp://www.debian.org GPG Fingerprint: ECA1 E3F2 8E11 2432 D485 DD95 EB36 171A 6FF9 435F
Bug#979614: seamly2d: virtually dead fork of valentina
Quoting Bernd Zeimetz (2021-01-09 22:09:06) > > Since then, he continued develop under original project name > > Valentina, whereas Seamly2D virtually stalled with no substantial > > code changes , only superficial changes to build infrastructure, > > locales, and icons. > > well, compared to valentina it seems to have way more pull requests > and is at least very responsive to requests. Looking on valentina it > seems to be a one-man-show - more or less. Seems to me that Seamly2D is similarly a one-woman-show - difference (disregarding sexes) being that one is good with code and the other is good with words and people. But I might be wrong. Or maybe code is largely "done" and only _need_ smaller polishing. > > I recommend that Debian does not carry Seamly3D, and encourage > > helping out with maintaining Valentina instead. > > Would have been nice to know about that after I've opened the RFP bug > - to be hones I haven't even been able to find valentina with apt, > maybe I've searched for the wrong words. For future sake, I recommend to share RFPs and ITPs to debian-devel@l.d.o as is the default for reportbug - I and some others check those and I am pretty sure I would have reacted when I saw this one - just as I did when I saw it appear in incoming.debian.org. That said, you got a point about keywords - and curiously, you didn't add "sewing" to long description of Seamly2D either :-P > > If you disagree, then I just wish you the best of luck with > > Seamly3D. I admit the severity is bloated - feel free to lower as > > you see fit. > > I think keeping one of them in Debian is the better option, but for > now I'm not sure whats the best option. I'd be very happy to > co-maintain one. Never planned to put seamly2d into bullseye, so don't > worry about severities. I genuinely think that if you still find Seamly2D worthy of investing your time on, after looking into the material shared below, then keep maintaining that in Debian. Currently I am maintaining Valentina alone, but in a team intented to hold more people interested: Debian Design team. You are most welcome to join that team - even if you expect to mostly be working on your own and care mostly for Seamly3D. > Any idea why there is a fork at all? (feel free to reply in > private...) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentina_(software) has a summary, with link to a longer blog entry about it. Following trails from there, I found this post which seems essential: https://web.archive.org/web/20171216140149/http://valentinaproject.forumotion.me/t23-my-vision I found no similar information from Seamly2D side of the fork. If you find any then please do share. Seems to me that Seamly2D has created a stronger brand with more fans, whereas Valentina has more programmers involved (i.e. has "only one" or "one at all", depending how you look at it). I was hoping that the strong community of Seamly2D would lead to more sample documents than the relatively few shipped with Valentina, but I have so far not been able to locate any, and it seems all blog posts in Seamly2D shares only PDFs, no *source* patterns. Therefore I also am unaware how compatible Valentina and Seamly2D is in their document formats, if at all. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Bug#979614: seamly2d: virtually dead fork of valentina
Hi, > Since then, he continued develop under original project name Valentina, > whereas Seamly2D virtually stalled with no substantial code changes , > only superficial changes to build infrastructure, locales, and icons. well, compared to valentina it seems to have way more pull requests and is at least very responsive to requests. Looking on valentina it seems to be a one-man-show - more or less. > I recommend that Debian does not carry Seamly3D, and encourage helping > out with maintaining Valentina instead. Would have been nice to know about that after I've opened the RFP bug - to be hones I haven't even been able to find valentina with apt, maybe I've searched for the wrong words. > If you disagree, then I just wish you the best of luck with Seamly3D. > I admit the severity is bloated - feel free to lower as you see fit. I think keeping one of them in Debian is the better option, but for now I'm not sure whats the best option. I'd be very happy to co-maintain one. Never planned to put seamly2d into bullseye, so don't worry about severities. Any idea why there is a fork at all? (feel free to reply in private...) Cheers, Bernd -- Bernd ZeimetzDebian GNU/Linux Developer http://bzed.dehttp://www.debian.org GPG Fingerprint: ECA1 E3F2 8E11 2432 D485 DD95 EB36 171A 6FF9 435F
Bug#979614: seamly2d: virtually dead fork of valentina
Package: seamly2d Version: 0.6.0.2+20201207+ds-1 Severity: grave Justification: renders package unusable -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Seamly2D is a fork of Valentina. Valentina is already in Debian. Original author Roman Telezhynskyi a.k.a. dismine developed the code until git commit a7cadff on August 27, 2017. Since then, he continued develop under original project name Valentina, whereas Seamly2D virtually stalled with no substantial code changes , only superficial changes to build infrastructure, locales, and icons. Check for yourself: git clone https://github.com/FashionFreedom/Seamly2D cd Seamly2D git diff --stat -p --ignore-all-space a7cadff.. ...compared to Valentina: git clone https://gitlab.com/smart-pattern/valentina.git cd valentina git diff --stat -p --ignore-all-space 3ea3371.. Or skim through those histories e.g. with "tig". I recommend that Debian does not carry Seamly3D, and encourage helping out with maintaining Valentina instead. If you disagree, then I just wish you the best of luck with Seamly3D. I admit the severity is bloated - feel free to lower as you see fit. Kind regards, - Jonas -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEn+Ppw2aRpp/1PMaELHwxRsGgASEFAl/5GPIACgkQLHwxRsGg ASEzJA//QzXmeEZOhHcQ/qUJVtXoepXcWCmSnSxHI+4e0vR+ruDEaQhzM6teA4Bj WakhTeIvg3mUE3QYpzI1JhD+YbDao3ifZ17zJ7TmLzEdA30NBzk5DXkjR0Eza2Lp o8PQEqBNPoGd7yU1LdfdlzbSezaR/KHZswPWSRsmPqmTxMWUAknQykxj3Tmd4bb/ jyf+Bels7bBbnkRf1nluKnIbI+KpjL3/2lIq2WOskS8aoMYWhFjCRj22BxT6KxQI 33dgEn+rJGsqfHPKDfvdRZK/LbvS7gb0uoLc6aUbsA7dqNH37DEcXS2tfmm54l2F jkIQJZR50SToVDTMmal9XNim1aDj870OogjdZHQKVecCmEaTrQgdAJg+B8vTt+ks 5K8MtvGHThaz5nymos6f27qUilvxw19w0DJnUobtCRocwL//dkSmxfW/l3J0qQQo 3J3p85Y16xycP90Z7v442wEYCNJ4NuPfA/qML9o1tqH//KJEk5rYYZAVKbMLUBbC JhRpCA2fGe6wc3NaAaza4V/26lYrgUDBAAJiYqDXRFQ6lKst3+4wrpj4bywI058k ZTAhyleLmeyvYDNwrghEbqJDevOouBh4n10J84itLGF/YDH7gsFpMxA/hK5X8FS5 GyVoh1M7N0/vXBqrT+8iJnrFIyIn58CorZl/HHcRhp+Hbblxc6o= =OVq+ -END PGP SIGNATURE-
