Bug#429314: texlive-context: missing dependency on lmodern
Sanjoy Mahajan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, why are you reporting a bug against texlive-context, since you know it is deprecated? To help Debian ConTeXt users, because etch will be used for perhaps two years (and longer by people who then run it as 'oldstable'). OK. [...] Meanwhile I'll switch to aptitude as my command-line tool. The first benefit you'll get is packages being marked as automatic (if you install A which depends on libobscure0 and you don't particularly care about libobscure0 itself, then aptitude will mark libobscure0 as automatic, which has the nice consequence that when you remove A and any other packages that depend on libobscure0, it will automatically remove libobscure0 so that you don't waste space for a package you don't care about). This functionality is being merged into libapt, so it will probably eventually be available in apt-get, dselect and synaptic, but at the moment, it is only offered by aptitude. -- Florent -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#429314: texlive-context: missing dependency on lmodern
Hi, Sanjoy Mahajan wrote: Installing 'lmodern' fixes the errors, because it provides those missing tfm files. So texlive-context should depend on lmodern, not merely recommend lmodern. Without lmodern, I think the package is totally unusable. texlive-context is an old package. In unstable, it has been replaced by context, which depends on lmodern (= 1.01). This machine runs Ubuntu feisty (i686), but I ran the above tests in a pbuilder Debian 'etch' chroot. I did 'sudo pbuilder login' (I think it already had the etch security updates), then 'apt-get install texlive-context'. Then I ran that test file, found that it failed, did 'apt-get install lmodern', and reran it with success. apt-get is not a tool for newbies. If you don't install Recommends, you should either know what you are doing or expect breakage. -- Florent -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#429314: texlive-context: missing dependency on lmodern
Sanjoy Mahajan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know: I maintain Ubuntu edgy backports of the Debian unstable/Ubuntu gutsy packages for texlive 2007, including 'context'. So, why are you reporting a bug against texlive-context, since you know it is deprecated? apt-get is not a tool for newbies. If you don't install Recommends, you should either know what you are doing or expect breakage. I didn't know that. By the way, what do newbies use? I've used apt-get since starting to use Debian years ago and don't even know any other tools. Today, the recommended tool is usually aptitude, though some people recommend synaptic for really basic users such as Mom. Personally, I've never tried synaptic and I've used dselect since my first day with Debian. dselect is quite usable if you're able to read the available tutorials and the keystrokes section in the online help. apt-get is a relatively low-level tool that doesn't always do what is good for newbies. aptitude has a similar command-line interface that can replace apt-get for most uses. The Debian policy manual, section 7.2 http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html, says: The Depends field should be used if the depended-on package is required for the depending package to provide a significant amount of functionality. I think lmodern fits in that category because without it most of ConTeXt's functionality is missing. 1. If ConTeXt cannot be used with other fonts than lmodern, it's an upstream bug, IMHO. If this is not the case, then Recommends would be appropriate (see the definition of Recommends in the same Policy Manual). 2. Anyway, I fail to see what you want us to do, since the context package currently in unstable *does* depend on lmodern. Please clarify. -- Florent -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#429314: texlive-context: missing dependency on lmodern
texlive-context is an old package. In unstable, it has been replaced by context, which depends on lmodern (= 1.01). I know: I maintain Ubuntu edgy backports of the Debian unstable/Ubuntu gutsy packages for texlive 2007, including 'context'. apt-get is not a tool for newbies. If you don't install Recommends, you should either know what you are doing or expect breakage. I didn't know that. By the way, what do newbies use? I've used apt-get since starting to use Debian years ago and don't even know any other tools. The Debian policy manual, section 7.2 http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html, says: The Depends field should be used if the depended-on package is required for the depending package to provide a significant amount of functionality. I think lmodern fits in that category because without it most of ConTeXt's functionality is missing. -Sanjoy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#429314: texlive-context: missing dependency on lmodern
Florent Rougon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sanjoy Mahajan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know: I maintain Ubuntu edgy backports of the Debian unstable/Ubuntu gutsy packages for texlive 2007, including 'context'. So, why are you reporting a bug against texlive-context, since you know it is deprecated? Because context doesn't have the bug, but texlive-context has it. And I think it should be even serious. Today, the recommended tool is usually aptitude, though some people recommend synaptic for really basic users such as Mom. Personally, I've never tried synaptic and I've used dselect since my first day with Debian. dselect is quite usable if you're able to read the available tutorials and the keystrokes section in the online help. apt-get is a relatively low-level tool that doesn't always do what is good for newbies. aptitude has a similar command-line interface that can replace apt-get for most uses. I agree, but you must admit that a couple of years ago, apt-get was generally recommended to people, and aptitude was something new. At least that's whay I learned. This had also the effect that people put stuff into Recommends that should rather be in Suggests, and then people started arguing against installing Recommends by default... I think lmodern fits in that category because without it most of ConTeXt's functionality is missing. 1. If ConTeXt cannot be used with other fonts than lmodern, it's an upstream bug, IMHO. It can AFAIK, but maybe using CM requires a lot of manual intervention (Postscript fonts should be easy). If this is not the case, then Recommends would be appropriate (see the definition of Recommends in the same Policy Manual). If ConTeXt uses the Latin Modern fonts by default, the package should depend on them. Just as a package which provides LaTeX needs to depend on a package which provides the Computer Modern fonts IMO, even if you can use others. 2. Anyway, I fail to see what you want us to do, since the context package currently in unstable *does* depend on lmodern. Please clarify. I suggest that we keep the bug open as a warning and information for users. Regards, Frank -- Frank Küster Single Molecule Spectroscopy, Protein Folding @ Inst. f. Biochemie, Univ. Zürich Debian Developer (teTeX/TeXLive)
Bug#429314: texlive-context: missing dependency on lmodern
Frank Küster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, why are you reporting a bug against texlive-context, since you know it is deprecated? Because context doesn't have the bug, but texlive-context has it. And I think it should be even serious. Okay, but texlive-context is dead, so this bug is nothing more than a reminder for users of etch... I agree, but you must admit that a couple of years ago, apt-get was generally recommended to people, Not by me. ;-) and aptitude was something new. At that time, I recommended dselect to new users. At least that's whay I learned. This had also the effect that people put stuff into Recommends that should rather be in Suggests, and then people started arguing against installing Recommends by default... Which is pure evil. Recommends is very useful. If ConTeXt uses the Latin Modern fonts by default, the package should depend on them. Just as a package which provides LaTeX needs to depend on a package which provides the Computer Modern fonts IMO, even if you can use others. I disagree. Putting lmodern in Recommends for context means: unless you know what you are doing, if you install context, then you also have to install lmodern. Consequently, if people follow this policy, they will always install lmodern alongside with context. Additionally, those who *really* know they won't need lmodern will be able to install context without lmodern. I think that would make everyone happy. I suggest that we keep the bug open as a warning and information for users. Okay. -- Florent
Bug#429314: texlive-context: missing dependency on lmodern
Florent Rougon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I disagree. Putting lmodern in Recommends for context means: unless you know what you are doing, if you install context, then you also have to install lmodern. Consequently, if people follow this policy, they will always install lmodern alongside with context. Additionally, those who *really* know they won't need lmodern will be able to install context without lmodern. I think that would make everyone happy. Yes, you are right. Regards, Frank -- Frank Küster Single Molecule Spectroscopy, Protein Folding @ Inst. f. Biochemie, Univ. Zürich Debian Developer (teTeX/TeXLive)
Bug#429314: texlive-context: missing dependency on lmodern
So, why are you reporting a bug against texlive-context, since you know it is deprecated? To help Debian ConTeXt users, because etch will be used for perhaps two years (and longer by people who then run it as 'oldstable'). 2. Anyway, I fail to see what you want us to do, since the context package currently in unstable *does* depend on lmodern. Please clarify. I suggest that texlive-context depend on lmodern (as the newer 'context' does). But if, as it seems from the later emails, you and Frank think it's okay as just a Recommends, then I won't argue with your much greater Debian (and Debian TeX) packaging experience. Meanwhile I'll switch to aptitude as my command-line tool. -Sanjoy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#429314: texlive-context: missing dependency on lmodern
Package: texlive-context Version: 2005.dfsg.3-1 Severity: important This minimal test.tex ConTeXt example fails when run with 'texexec --pdf test.tex' (in Debian 'etch'): \starttext \input tufte \stoptext Here is the first error (the remainder are similar): kpathsea: Running mktextfm ec-lmr12 mktextfm: Running mf-nowin -progname=mf \mode:=ljfour; mag:=1; nonstopmode; input ec-lmr12 This is METAFONT, Version 2.71828 (Web2C 7.5.5) kpathsea: Running mktexmf ec-lmr12 ! I can't find file `ec-lmr12'. * ...ljfour; mag:=1; nonstopmode; input ec-lmr12 Installing 'lmodern' fixes the errors, because it provides those missing tfm files. So texlive-context should depend on lmodern, not merely recommend lmodern. Without lmodern, I think the package is totally unusable. My only worry about this bug report -- and the reason that I did not mark it 'severe' -- is that it is /such/ a severe bug. So I wonder why I (or others) never noticed it before. Did something change that made lmodern required all of a sudden? Or am I not understanding something? This machine runs Ubuntu feisty (i686), but I ran the above tests in a pbuilder Debian 'etch' chroot. I did 'sudo pbuilder login' (I think it already had the etch security updates), then 'apt-get install texlive-context'. Then I ran that test file, found that it failed, did 'apt-get install lmodern', and reran it with success. -- System Information: Debian Release: 4.0 APT prefers stable APT policy: (500, 'stable') Architecture: i386 (i686) Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash Kernel: Linux 2.6.20-16-generic Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C (charmap=ANSI_X3.4-1968) (ignored: LC_ALL set to C) Versions of packages texlive-context depends on: ii libxml-parser-perl2.34-4.2 Perl module for parsing XML files ii perl-tk 1:804.027-7Perl module providing the Tk graph ii texlive-base 2005.dfsg.3-1 TeX Live: Essential programs and f ii texlive-common2005.dfsg.3-1 TeX Live: Base component ii texlive-metapost 2005.dfsg.2-12 TeX Live: MetaPost (and Metafont) ii texlive-pdfetex 2005.dfsg.2-12 TeX Live: pdfTeX texlive-context recommends no packages. Versions of packages tex-common depends on: ii debconf [debconf-2.0] 1.5.11 Debian configuration management sy ii ucf 2.0020 Update Configuration File: preserv Versions of packages texlive-context is related to: pn tetex-basenone (no description available) pn tetex-bin none (no description available) pn tetex-extra none (no description available) -- debconf information: tex-common/check_texmf_missing: tex-common/check_texmf_wrong: -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
