Bug#674853: winbind should depend on libpam-winbind and libnss-winbind for wheezy
tags 674853 wontfix thanks On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 12:04:37PM +0200, Christian PERRIER wrote: So, sorry but no. Tagging accordingly. Cheers, Ivo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#674853: winbind should depend on libpam-winbind and libnss-winbind for wheezy
Package: winbind Version: 2:3.6.5-3 Severity: serious Common practice in Debian is that when functionality got split out of one package, that package will depend in the next stable release on the new packages to avoid breakages on upgrades. Please drop the latest two entry from NEWS.Debian, and instead change the Recommends to a Depends for wheezy. Not sure whether the severity is too high for this since it only makes a difference for people with Install-Recommends set to false, but it is anyway trivial to fix. As a bonus, this would slightly reduce the flood of NEWS.Debian entries a user might see during an upgrade. Note that this bug is only about a temporary change for minimizing the possible breakage for people upgrading from squeeze to wheezy, for wheeze+1 it is perfectly fine to demote these dependencies to Suggests. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#674853: [Pkg-samba-maint] Bug#674853: winbind should depend on libpam-winbind and libnss-winbind for wheezy
severity 674853 important thanks Quoting Adrian Bunk (b...@stusta.de): Package: winbind Version: 2:3.6.5-3 Severity: serious Common practice in Debian is that when functionality got split out of one package, that package will depend in the next stable release on the new packages to avoid breakages on upgrades. Which is why winbind *Recommends* libpam-winbind and libnss-winbind. As we already said ad libitum hereor therewe are not here to rescue people who shoot in one's own foot by not installing Recommends. So, sorry but no. I'm very tempted to close this bug report and will just downgrade it as of now.I'm leaving it off to Steve to close it. I'm certain he agrees with me, here, and the best way for him to say so is probably by closing the bug report. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#674853: [Pkg-samba-maint] Bug#674853: winbind should depend on libpam-winbind and libnss-winbind for wheezy
On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 12:04:37PM +0200, Christian PERRIER wrote: severity 674853 important thanks Quoting Adrian Bunk (b...@stusta.de): Package: winbind Version: 2:3.6.5-3 Severity: serious Common practice in Debian is that when functionality got split out of one package, that package will depend in the next stable release on the new packages to avoid breakages on upgrades. Which is why winbind *Recommends* libpam-winbind and libnss-winbind. As we already said ad libitum hereor therewe are not here to rescue people who shoot in one's own foot by not installing Recommends. If not installing Recommends is considered shoot in one's own foot, doesn't that imply that Recommends should be converted to Depends? Either not installing Recommends (which is a *global* setting in Debian) is considered a valid setup through all of Debian, or it is anyway considered broken. In the latter case there would be no reason against changing the Recommends to Depends... So, sorry but no. I'm very tempted to close this bug report and will just downgrade it as of now.I'm leaving it off to Steve to close it. I'm certain he agrees with me, here, and the best way for him to say so is probably by closing the bug report. cu Adrian -- Is there not promise of rain? Ling Tan asked suddenly out of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days. Only a promise, Lao Er said. Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#674853: [Pkg-samba-maint] Bug#674853: winbind should depend on libpam-winbind and libnss-winbind for wheezy
# It seems that Christian missed to Cc control@, so copying the instructions # here. severity 674853 important thanks On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 08:48:54PM +0300, Adrian Bunk wrote: Either not installing Recommends (which is a *global* setting in Debian) is considered a valid setup through all of Debian, or it is anyway considered broken. In the latter case there would be no reason against changing the Recommends to Depends... I'm sorry that I have to quote policy to you: | Recommends | |This declares a strong, but not absolute, dependency. | |The Recommends field should list packages that would be found together |with this one in all but unusual installations. It's pretty clear that winbind can be used usefully without those two packages (e.g. for RADIUS auth against Active Directory), but that, as you said, they should be there in usual installations. That's the definition of recommends. Kind regards Philipp Kern -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#674853: [Pkg-samba-maint] Bug#674853: winbind should depend on libpam-winbind and libnss-winbind for wheezy
On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 08:30:25PM +0200, Philipp Kern wrote: ... On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 08:48:54PM +0300, Adrian Bunk wrote: Either not installing Recommends (which is a *global* setting in Debian) is considered a valid setup through all of Debian, or it is anyway considered broken. In the latter case there would be no reason against changing the Recommends to Depends... I'm sorry that I have to quote policy to you: | Recommends | |This declares a strong, but not absolute, dependency. | |The Recommends field should list packages that would be found together |with this one in all but unusual installations. It's pretty clear that winbind can be used usefully without those two packages (e.g. for RADIUS auth against Active Directory), but that, as you said, they should be there in usual installations. That's the definition of recommends. I am not objecting against that in general. What I am talking about is the special case of how to ensure that everyone who had these installed in squeeze (due to them being part of winbind) will also have them installed in wheezy after upgrading. Traditionally, when a package was split out of another package in Debian, there is a dependency until the next release to minimize the risk of upgrade breakages. It is clear that this is only a short-term dependency, and for wheezy+1 the dependency will be demoted to a Suggests or Recommends. Debian always had a reputation for working upgraded (e.g. think back to the libc5-libc6 transition), and IMHO it is important that Debian will continue to do everything possible to avoid upgrade breakages. Kind regards Philipp Kern cu Adrian -- Is there not promise of rain? Ling Tan asked suddenly out of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days. Only a promise, Lao Er said. Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#674853: [Pkg-samba-maint] Bug#674853: Bug#674853: winbind should depend on libpam-winbind and libnss-winbind for wheezy
On 05/28/2012 07:48 PM, Adrian Bunk wrote: On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 12:04:37PM +0200, Christian PERRIER wrote: severity 674853 important thanks Quoting Adrian Bunk (b...@stusta.de): Package: winbind Version: 2:3.6.5-3 Severity: serious Common practice in Debian is that when functionality got split out of one package, that package will depend in the next stable release on the new packages to avoid breakages on upgrades. Which is why winbind *Recommends* libpam-winbind and libnss-winbind. As we already said ad libitum hereor therewe are not here to rescue people who shoot in one's own foot by not installing Recommends. If not installing Recommends is considered shoot in one's own foot, doesn't that imply that Recommends should be converted to Depends? Either not installing Recommends (which is a *global* setting in Debian) is considered a valid setup through all of Debian, or it is anyway considered broken. In the latter case there would be no reason against changing the Recommends to Depends... So, sorry but no. On the contrary, if one chooses to not install Recommends one has to take the consequences of not having everything that is usually needed installed. How one does that is up to oneself and not to the distribution at large. So it's actually not installing Recommends, but not taking necessay measures to keep things working neither is considered shoot in one's own foot. Cheers Luk -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#674853: [Pkg-samba-maint] Bug#674853: winbind should depend on libpam-winbind and libnss-winbind for wheezy
On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 10:45:40PM +0300, Adrian Bunk wrote: [ winbind only recommending libpam-winbind and libnss-winbind ] What I am talking about is the special case of how to ensure that everyone who had these installed in squeeze (due to them being part of winbind) will also have them installed in wheezy after upgrading. The definition of recommends implies that you should opt out of them only in a concious way and I don't see a way around reviewing missing recommends on upgrade. We should probably mention the fact that we expect users to review them in the release notes / upgrade instructions, though, if it isn't already. Kind regards Philipp Kern signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#674853: [Pkg-samba-maint] Bug#674853: Bug#674853: winbind should depend on libpam-winbind and libnss-winbind for wheezy
On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 11:10:00PM +0200, Luk Claes wrote: On 05/28/2012 07:48 PM, Adrian Bunk wrote: On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 12:04:37PM +0200, Christian PERRIER wrote: severity 674853 important thanks Quoting Adrian Bunk (b...@stusta.de): Package: winbind Version: 2:3.6.5-3 Severity: serious Common practice in Debian is that when functionality got split out of one package, that package will depend in the next stable release on the new packages to avoid breakages on upgrades. Which is why winbind *Recommends* libpam-winbind and libnss-winbind. As we already said ad libitum hereor therewe are not here to rescue people who shoot in one's own foot by not installing Recommends. If not installing Recommends is considered shoot in one's own foot, doesn't that imply that Recommends should be converted to Depends? Either not installing Recommends (which is a *global* setting in Debian) is considered a valid setup through all of Debian, or it is anyway considered broken. In the latter case there would be no reason against changing the Recommends to Depends... So, sorry but no. On the contrary, if one chooses to not install Recommends one has to take the consequences of not having everything that is usually needed installed. How one does that is up to oneself and not to the distribution at large. So it's actually not installing Recommends, but not taking necessay measures to keep things working neither is considered shoot in one's own foot. everything that is usually needed != everything that was installed before the upgrade These are two quite distinct cases. Look at it from a practical point of view: When setting up a server, you configure all services one by one, ensuring for each that it works. If anything you need on that server is only recommended or suggested you will install it manually. A few years later, you are upgrading the server to the next Debian release. You expect that everything that worked before the upgrade will continue to work after the upgrade. You might have time for each step when setting up something new, but when a running system that is being used by other people has breakages caused by an upgrade that's usually causing much stress. Now regarding the Recommends are treated like Depends by default: Either a system without all recommended packages installed is considered in a shoot in one's own foot state. Then Recommends should be completely abolished in Debian and replaced with Depends. Or it is considered a valid and non-broken setup to not install recommended packages, and then that should also be supported as good as possible by Debian - including no upgrade breakages. Cheers Luk cu Adrian -- Is there not promise of rain? Ling Tan asked suddenly out of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days. Only a promise, Lao Er said. Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#674853: [Pkg-samba-maint] Bug#674853: winbind should depend on libpam-winbind and libnss-winbind for wheezy
On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 11:35:28PM +0200, Philipp Kern wrote: On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 10:45:40PM +0300, Adrian Bunk wrote: [ winbind only recommending libpam-winbind and libnss-winbind ] What I am talking about is the special case of how to ensure that everyone who had these installed in squeeze (due to them being part of winbind) will also have them installed in wheezy after upgrading. The definition of recommends implies that you should opt out of them only in a concious way and I don't see a way around reviewing missing recommends on upgrade. We should probably mention the fact that we expect users to review them in the release notes / upgrade instructions, though, if it isn't already. Where is the I don't see a way around problem? If you didn't install a recommended (or suggested) package before the upgrade, then you won't expect it to be installed after the ugrade. Dependencies can ensure that everything that was installed before the upgrade will continue to be installed after the upgrade. Kind regards Philipp Kern cu Adrian -- Is there not promise of rain? Ling Tan asked suddenly out of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days. Only a promise, Lao Er said. Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
