Bug#742484: Highlight packages installed from non-free?
On Mi, 26 mar 14, 22:55:07, Tomasz Nitecki wrote: While the idea is interesting, I do see a few issues: 1. Isn't this feature too close to what vrms already does [1]? True, it doesn't (AFAIK) check the source of the package, but it not only shows which packages are non free but also explains what makes a package non-free. vrms is not hooked into APT. 2. At the moment, how-can-i-help fetches only information related to packages containing specific types of bugs. To implement this new feature (and don't disclose the list of installed packages) we would have to download complete list of non-free packages or check all installed packages on the user side. Neither is supported by how-can-i-help and I do feel that it is slightly outside of our scope. I was thinking of something much simpler, like just displaying a list of installed packages from non-free and/or contrib with a heading like These packages are from non-free and/or contrib and should be replaced by free alternatives. The list should be easy to obtain from the system. For aptitude it's aptitude search ~S~i~snon-free 3. Even if we implemented it as stated in (2.), we would show this new information only once, unless used called with '--old' switch. Non-free status doesn't change that often, and updating/installing would usually show no new information here. Maybe it would be appropriate to nag the user each time? :p However, we could probably [2] add a tag/note/etc. to non-free opportunities, indicating their status. This might be useful for Orphaned or RFA packages. What do you think? Not exactly sure what you mean here. Thanks for reading, Andrei -- If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein) http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#742484: Highlight packages installed from non-free?
On 27/03/14 at 10:58 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Mi, 26 mar 14, 22:55:07, Tomasz Nitecki wrote: While the idea is interesting, I do see a few issues: 1. Isn't this feature too close to what vrms already does [1]? True, it doesn't (AFAIK) check the source of the package, but it not only shows which packages are non free but also explains what makes a package non-free. vrms is not hooked into APT. Shouldn't this be fixed in vrms, actually? 2. At the moment, how-can-i-help fetches only information related to packages containing specific types of bugs. To implement this new feature (and don't disclose the list of installed packages) we would have to download complete list of non-free packages or check all installed packages on the user side. Neither is supported by how-can-i-help and I do feel that it is slightly outside of our scope. I was thinking of something much simpler, like just displaying a list of installed packages from non-free and/or contrib with a heading like These packages are from non-free and/or contrib and should be replaced by free alternatives. So far, hcih lists issues where there's an obvious action: fix a bug, review a sponsorship request, etc. Replacing a non-free package by its free alternative is not so obvious: there might not be an alternative, it might be a super-complex piece of software, etc. So, I don't really think that such a feature has its place in hcih. It would be much more suitable in vrms, though. Lucas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#742484: Highlight packages installed from non-free?
On 27/03/14 09:58, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Mi, 26 mar 14, 22:55:07, Tomasz Nitecki wrote: While the idea is interesting, I do see a few issues: 1. Isn't this feature too close to what vrms already does [1]? True, it doesn't (AFAIK) check the source of the package, but it not only shows which packages are non free but also explains what makes a package non-free. vrms is not hooked into APT. This can be easily fixed! ;) Ok, but on a serious note, apart from not being hooked into apt, how does it differ? Won't we just duplicate vrms functionality (only showing it more often - during each how-can-i-help execution)? 2. At the moment, how-can-i-help fetches only information related to packages containing specific types of bugs. To implement this new feature (and don't disclose the list of installed packages) we would have to download complete list of non-free packages or check all installed packages on the user side. Neither is supported by how-can-i-help and I do feel that it is slightly outside of our scope. I was thinking of something much simpler, like just displaying a list of installed packages from non-free and/or contrib with a heading like These packages are from non-free and/or contrib and should be replaced by free alternatives. The list should be easy to obtain from the system. For aptitude it's aptitude search ~S~i~snon-free You are totally right here. I was thinking about making it work with an '--all' option and I simply overengineered. Working with locally available information would be good enough. However, I do feel that we are getting very close to duplicating vrms functionality by doing that (it is the best way, but also the same way vrms works). 3. Even if we implemented it as stated in (2.), we would show this new information only once, unless used called with '--old' switch. Non-free status doesn't change that often, and updating/installing would usually show no new information here. Maybe it would be appropriate to nag the user each time? :p Uhm, I'm not quite sure about it. how-can-i-help is often called, and showing all non-free packages every time it runs feels like nagging ;P However, we could probably [2] add a tag/note/etc. to non-free opportunities, indicating their status. This might be useful for Orphaned or RFA packages. What do you think? Not exactly sure what you mean here. I was thinking about adding information about non-free status of packages in how-can-i-help output. Something like: - xxx - [non-free] - http://bugs.debian.org/1234 - O (Orphaned) It came to my mind, because some kind of opportunities (like Orphaned or RFA) seem to be a good starting point if you want to replace them with a fully free one. Just a wild idea. And how about improving and extending vrms? It already does what is needed, so it would only require adding an apt hook (if I recall correctly it can also mail reports). It is being developed at alioth [1]. Regards, T. [1] http://vrms.alioth.debian.org/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Bug#742484: Highlight packages installed from non-free?
On Vi, 28 mar 14, 00:22:29, Tomasz Nitecki wrote: I was thinking about adding information about non-free status of packages in how-can-i-help output. Something like: - xxx - [non-free] - http://bugs.debian.org/1234 - O (Orphaned) It came to my mind, because some kind of opportunities (like Orphaned or RFA) seem to be a good starting point if you want to replace them with a fully free one. Just a wild idea. Sure, why not. And how about improving and extending vrms? It already does what is needed, so it would only require adding an apt hook (if I recall correctly it can also mail reports). It is being developed at alioth [1]. I'll file a wishlist bug. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#742484: Highlight packages installed from non-free?
Hey, On 24/03/14 11:22, Andrei POPESCU wrote: Package: how-can-i-help Severity: wishlist On Du, 23 mar 14, 23:43:18, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: Moving non-free packages to non-free.org would be a good way to highlight that those packages are not part of Debian. However, I wonder if we couldn't do more in terms of notifying users that the package they are installing is in non-free. Currently, what happens is that you add 'non-free' in sources.list, but then you kind-of forget about it, and packages from main, contrib and non-free are just the same from the POV of 'apt-cache search' or 'apt-get install'. It could be interesting to explore the idea of asking for an install-time confirmation when the user wants to install non-free packages. Maybe how-can-i-help could show packages installed from non-free (and contrib?) under a 'would be nice if these had free replacements' category, though I'm aware this is more an upstream issue :-/ While the idea is interesting, I do see a few issues: 1. Isn't this feature too close to what vrms already does [1]? True, it doesn't (AFAIK) check the source of the package, but it not only shows which packages are non free but also explains what makes a package non-free. 2. At the moment, how-can-i-help fetches only information related to packages containing specific types of bugs. To implement this new feature (and don't disclose the list of installed packages) we would have to download complete list of non-free packages or check all installed packages on the user side. Neither is supported by how-can-i-help and I do feel that it is slightly outside of our scope. 3. Even if we implemented it as stated in (2.), we would show this new information only once, unless used called with '--old' switch. Non-free status doesn't change that often, and updating/installing would usually show no new information here. However, we could probably [2] add a tag/note/etc. to non-free opportunities, indicating their status. This might be useful for Orphaned or RFA packages. What do you think? Regards, T. [1] https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=vrms [2] I'll check it out - be it on UDD (#742245) or user side. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Bug#742484: Highlight packages installed from non-free?
Package: how-can-i-help Severity: wishlist On Du, 23 mar 14, 23:43:18, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: Moving non-free packages to non-free.org would be a good way to highlight that those packages are not part of Debian. However, I wonder if we couldn't do more in terms of notifying users that the package they are installing is in non-free. Currently, what happens is that you add 'non-free' in sources.list, but then you kind-of forget about it, and packages from main, contrib and non-free are just the same from the POV of 'apt-cache search' or 'apt-get install'. It could be interesting to explore the idea of asking for an install-time confirmation when the user wants to install non-free packages. Maybe how-can-i-help could show packages installed from non-free (and contrib?) under a 'would be nice if these had free replacements' category, though I'm aware this is more an upstream issue :-/ Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
