Bug#906901: debian-policy: Perl script shebang requirement is disturbing and inconsistent with rest of policy

2018-08-25 Thread Sean Whitton
control: tag -1 +patch Hello, On Fri 24 Aug 2018 at 08:44PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: > I'm looking for seconds for this patch to relax the current requirement > back to a should. After that, I think the next step would be to introduce > automatic fixing of the #! line to debhelper, since

Bug#906901: debian-policy: Perl script shebang requirement is disturbing and inconsistent with rest of policy

2018-08-25 Thread Dominic Hargreaves
On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 08:44:26PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: > Dominic Hargreaves writes: > > > Clearly it should not be a must at this point given the deviation: > > though it still looks to me like a must ever since it was added to the > > perl policy, so if it is changed it should be changed

Bug#906901: debian-policy: Perl script shebang requirement is disturbing and inconsistent with rest of policy

2018-08-24 Thread Jonathan Nieder
Hi Russ, Russ Allbery wrote: > I'm looking for seconds for this patch to relax the current requirement > back to a should. [...] > --- a/perl-policy.xml > +++ b/perl-policy.xml > @@ -533,7 +533,7 @@ $(MAKE) OPTIMIZE="-O2 -g -Wall" >Script Magic > > > -All packaged perl

Bug#906901: debian-policy: Perl script shebang requirement is disturbing and inconsistent with rest of policy

2018-08-24 Thread Russ Allbery
Dominic Hargreaves writes: > Clearly it should not be a must at this point given the deviation: > though it still looks to me like a must ever since it was added to the > perl policy, so if it is changed it should be changed in both places. Hi all, I'm looking for seconds for this patch to

Bug#906901: debian-policy: Perl script shebang requirement is disturbing and inconsistent with rest of policy

2018-08-23 Thread Ian Jackson
Norbert Preining writes ("Re: Bug#906901: debian-policy: Perl script shebang requirement is disturbing and inconsistent with rest of policy"): > Hi Ian, > > This confusing user experience only occurs if someone prepends a > > different perl to $PATH. Has anyone actual

Bug#906901: debian-policy: Perl script shebang requirement is disturbing and inconsistent with rest of policy

2018-08-23 Thread Norbert Preining
Hi Ian, > This confusing user experience only occurs if someone prepends a > different perl to $PATH. Has anyone actually ever done this and got > useful results ? Has anyone actually even wanted to do this ? Not that I know off in a separate PATH, but I have seen perl in /usr/local/bin quite

Bug#906901: debian-policy: Perl script shebang requirement is disturbing and inconsistent with rest of policy

2018-08-23 Thread Ian Jackson
Julian Andres Klode writes ("Bug#906901: debian-policy: Perl script shebang requirement is disturbing and inconsistent with rest of policy"): > In fact, we're seeing upgrade failures due to people having > different interpreter versions in /usr/local, and there was some > di

Bug#906901: debian-policy: Perl script shebang requirement is disturbing and inconsistent with rest of policy

2018-08-23 Thread Ian Jackson
Jonathan Nieder writes ("Bug#906901: debian-policy: Perl script shebang requirement is disturbing and inconsistent with rest of policy"): > Dominic Hargreaves wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 08:42:11PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: ... > In this thread, there are three p

Bug#906901: debian-policy: Perl script shebang requirement is disturbing and inconsistent with rest of policy

2018-08-23 Thread Julian Andres Klode
On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 07:04:10PM -0700, Jonathan Nieder wrote: > Hi, > > Dominic Hargreaves wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 08:42:11PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: > > >> I do feel like allowing either based on the whim of the packager is just > >> kind of bad. It produces inconsistent

Bug#906901: debian-policy: Perl script shebang requirement is disturbing and inconsistent with rest of policy

2018-08-22 Thread Jonathan Nieder
Hi, Dominic Hargreaves wrote: > On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 08:42:11PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: >> I do feel like allowing either based on the whim of the packager is just >> kind of bad. It produces inconsistent behavior to no real benefit for >> anyone. If you install a Perl earlier in your

Bug#906901: debian-policy: Perl script shebang requirement is disturbing and inconsistent with rest of policy

2018-08-22 Thread Norbert Preining
Hi, > Addressing your inconsistency argument above: I can certainly see an > argument that some types of perl scripts shipped in Debian might want > to opt into being run by a different interpreter for special reasons, > but I think they should be the exception rather than the rule. Having I am

Bug#906901: debian-policy: Perl script shebang requirement is disturbing and inconsistent with rest of policy

2018-08-22 Thread Dominic Hargreaves
On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 08:42:11PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: > Russ Allbery writes: > > > Did Lintian have some special case that was allowing /usr/bin/env perl > > previously and then Lintian changed based on Policy? That would be > > unfortunate, since we thought we were changing to match

Bug#906901: debian-policy: Perl script shebang requirement is disturbing and inconsistent with rest of policy

2018-08-22 Thread Stuart Prescott
On Wednesday, 22 August 2018 13:26:30 AEST Ian Jackson wrote: > In practice, replacing perl with a homebrewed actual perl is rare and > in that case you want to put it in /usr/bin, because that's where all > distributed perl scripts expect it to be. (If you'd make it /usr/bin/perl anyway, isn't

Bug#906901: debian-policy: Perl script shebang requirement is disturbing and inconsistent with rest of policy

2018-08-22 Thread Ian Jackson
Russ Allbery writes ("Bug#906901: debian-policy: Perl script shebang requirement is disturbing and inconsistent with rest of policy"): > Yeah, this is one of the points that I'm struggling with: I feel like our > stance with Perl (and Python) and our stance with ma

Bug#906901: debian-policy: Perl script shebang requirement is disturbing and inconsistent with rest of policy

2018-08-22 Thread Raphael Hertzog
Hi, On Tue, 21 Aug 2018, Russ Allbery wrote: > Perl folks, the short version is that Lintian wasn't actually checking for > scripts that used /usr/bin/env perl, so our check when we closed #683495 > was bogus. Lintian has now changed based on Policy, and it looks like > there were around 2,000

Bug#906901: debian-policy: Perl script shebang requirement is disturbing and inconsistent with rest of policy

2018-08-21 Thread Norbert Preining
Hi > Apparently the Python packaging community in Debian already had this > discussion and chose to standardize on /usr/bin paths for everything, and > the debhelper add-ons for Python just rewrite the #! line accordingly. So Hmm, really? Looking throught the python scripts in TeX Live I find a

Bug#906901: debian-policy: Perl script shebang requirement is disturbing and inconsistent with rest of policy

2018-08-21 Thread Russ Allbery
Norbert Preining writes: > But we probably have the very same situation with any other interpreter. > ANyone ever checked the shebangs of python/php/lua/whatever scripts? Apparently the Python packaging community in Debian already had this discussion and chose to standardize on /usr/bin paths

Bug#906901: debian-policy: Perl script shebang requirement is disturbing and inconsistent with rest of policy

2018-08-21 Thread Norbert Preining
Hi Russ, > Unpredictable behavior, where every command written in Perl behaves > randomly based on the whim of the packager? Well, so it be? > commands in maintainer scripts). But picking one or the other essentially > at random (from the perspective of the user) sounds awful. But we probably

Bug#906901: debian-policy: Perl script shebang requirement is disturbing and inconsistent with rest of policy

2018-08-21 Thread Russ Allbery
Thank you for the background on Python! Stuart Prescott writes: > Sidenote: Getting rid of env in shebangs is only part of the story to > making packages robust against accidental breakage. Putting an > incompatible interpreter into PATH (say, /usr/local/bin/{python,perl}) > ends up breaking

Bug#906901: debian-policy: Perl script shebang requirement is disturbing and inconsistent with rest of policy

2018-08-21 Thread Russ Allbery
Norbert Preining writes: >> If you install a Perl earlier in your PATH, you get totally >> unpredictable behavior, and everyone will be unhappy half the time. > Well, but this is what you have asked for when you installed a Perl > earlier in your PATH. It is up to you. Unpredictable behavior,

Bug#906901: debian-policy: Perl script shebang requirement is disturbing and inconsistent with rest of policy

2018-08-21 Thread Stuart Prescott
On Tuesday, 21 August 2018 20:42:11 AEST Russ Allbery wrote: > I do feel like allowing either based on the whim of the packager is just > kind of bad. It produces inconsistent behavior to no real benefit for > anyone. If you install a Perl earlier in your PATH, you get totally > unpredictable

Bug#906901: debian-policy: Perl script shebang requirement is disturbing and inconsistent with rest of policy

2018-08-21 Thread Norbert Preining
Hi Russ, > there were around 2,000 scripts in Debian that were using the /usr/bin/env > perl form. That was a number I somehow expected. It is decades old practice to use this shebang. > Any feelings about where we should go from here? Yes. > I do feel like allowing either based on the whim

Bug#906901: debian-policy: Perl script shebang requirement is disturbing and inconsistent with rest of policy

2018-08-21 Thread Russ Allbery
Russ Allbery writes: > Did Lintian have some special case that was allowing /usr/bin/env perl > previously and then Lintian changed based on Policy? That would be > unfortunate, since we thought we were changing to match Lintian Sigh. Yes, indeed. * checks/scripts.pm: + [CL] Policy

Bug#906901: debian-policy: Perl script shebang requirement is disturbing and inconsistent with rest of policy

2018-08-21 Thread Russ Allbery
Russ Allbery writes: > Norbert Preining writes: >> If a user/system admin wants to replace Perl by prepending the path to >> a self compiled Perl to the PATH, it is his right to do so, and Perl >> scripts are expected to follow this decision. It is the obligation of >> the one doing the change

Bug#906901: debian-policy: Perl script shebang requirement is disturbing and inconsistent with rest of policy

2018-08-21 Thread Russ Allbery
Control: severity -1 normal Norbert Preining writes: > The recent addition to the Debian Policy to require a Perl shebang of > /usr/bin/perl is inconsistent with the rest of script usage, and hinders > the user/system administrator to freely override Perl. This isn't recent. All we did was

Bug#906901: debian-policy: Perl script shebang requirement is disturbing and inconsistent with rest of policy

2018-08-21 Thread Norbert Preining
Package: debian-policy Version: 4.2.0.1 Severity: serious The recent addition to the Debian Policy to require a Perl shebang of /usr/bin/perl is inconsistent with the rest of script usage, and hinders the user/system administrator to freely override Perl. If a user/system admin wants to replace