Bug#914373: octave-statistics: accessing installed functions is needlessly obscure
Control: found -1 4.4.1-2
Bug#914373: octave-statistics: accessing installed functions is needlessly obscure
* James Van Zandt [2018-11-24 18:03]: I don't see why a Readme.DEBIAN file in each package would be difficult to manage. If needed, it could be generic, with the same text in each package, such as: By default installed packages are not available from the Octave prompt. The functions from this package can be added to the Octave path by typing pkg load at the Octave command line. It is not a matter of *difficulty*, but a matter of *maintainability*. Currently in Debian, there are over 60 Octave-Forge packages [1] and all of tehm would be impacted by the change. We, the developers of the DOG, do such distribution-wide changes only when it is extremely necessary. At any rate, We have already changed the README.Debian file of the octave package [2]. We hope that it is enough, for now. [1] https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?email=team%2Bpkg-octave-team%40tracker.debian.org [2] https://salsa.debian.org/pkg-octave-team/octave/commit/987627f214beabe6cc20df19227d4b960ac7ee3a I note a discussion of autoloading packages here: http://octave.1599824.n4.nabble.com/package-autoload-td4676287.html particularly a comment by LachlanA; My personal belief is that the __unimplemented__ function, which currently tells us which package we should load, should just load the package and continue (unless the same function is implemented in multiple packages, in which case it should list all of those packages and give an error). That would most closely emulate the Matlab experience, while avoiding the problems Carnë described. I would appreciate that. However, I'd be satisfied if the __unimplemented__ function simply knew about all the functions available in packages. (Currently it doesn't - the subject of another bug). This is an upstream issue. Whatever default behavior the upstream authors decide to adopt, the DOG will follow. Best, Rafael
Bug#914373: octave-statistics: accessing installed functions is needlessly obscure
I don't see why a Readme.DEBIAN file in each package would be difficult to manage. If needed, it could be generic, with the same text in each package, such as: By default installed packages are not available from the Octave prompt. The functions from this package can be added to the Octave path by typing pkg load at the Octave command line. I note a discussion of autoloading packages here: http://octave.1599824.n4.nabble.com/package-autoload-td4676287.html particularly a comment by LachlanA; > My personal belief is that the __unimplemented__ function, which > currently tells us which package we should load, should just load > the package and continue (unless the same function is implemented > in multiple packages, in which case it should list all of those > packages and give an error). > > That would most closely emulate the Matlab experience, while > avoiding the problems Carnë described. I would appreciate that. However, I'd be satisfied if the __unimplemented__ function simply knew about all the functions available in packages. (Currently it doesn't - the subject of another bug). On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 5:43 AM Rafael Laboissière wrote: > [Moving this discussion from Bug#914373 into debian-octave.] > > * James Van Zandt [2018-11-22 13:34]: > > > > [snip] > > > > Please provide a file /usr/share/doc/octave-statistics/README.Debian > > with a note something like > > > >By default installed packages are not available from the Octave > >prompt. The functions from this package can be added to the Octave > >path by typing > > > > pkg load statistics > > > >at the Octave command line. > > > > [snip] > > The bug reporter also suggests to add README.Debian files for all > other OF packages. > > Do the other members of the DOG agree with this change? > > Rafael >
Bug#914373: octave-statistics: accessing installed functions is needlessly obscure
Control: severity -1 wishlist Control: reassign -1 octave 4.0.3-3 Control: retitle -1 octave: Document the need for pkg load * Sébastien Villemot [2018-11-24 11:56]: Le samedi 24 novembre 2018 à 11:43 +0100, Rafael Laboissière a écrit : [snip] Do the other members of the DOG agree with this change? That seems excessive to me. The fact that OF packages are not auto- loaded is the consequence of a global setting (in Octave itself), so it does not make sense to document it in individual packages. I share your opinion. Adding a README.Debian for each package is excessive and would be a maintenance burden, as well. Besides that, this is not really a bug. I am hereby decreasing the severity of this bug report from normal to wishlist. I would rather update the README.Debian of octave. It currently tells never to use the "pkg" command, which is bad advice, since that command is needed to load the packages. Yes, documenting it in the README.Debian of octave is the sensible thing to do. I am hereby reassigning this bug report to the octave package and adjusting its title. I think that the current advice in the README.Debian of octave regards the use of "pkg install". At any rate, the wording is wrong and must be fixed. Rafael
Bug#914373: octave-statistics: accessing installed functions is needlessly obscure
Le samedi 24 novembre 2018 à 11:43 +0100, Rafael Laboissière a écrit : > [Moving this discussion from Bug#914373 into debian-octave.] > > * James Van Zandt [2018-11-22 13:34]: > > > > [snip] > > > > Please provide a file /usr/share/doc/octave- > > statistics/README.Debian > > with a note something like > > > > By default installed packages are not available from the Octave > > prompt. The functions from this package can be added to the > > Octave > > path by typing > > > > pkg load statistics > > > > at the Octave command line. > > > > [snip] > > The bug reporter also suggests to add README.Debian files for all > other OF packages. > > Do the other members of the DOG agree with this change? That seems excessive to me. The fact that OF packages are not auto- loaded is the consequence of a global setting (in Octave itself), so it does not make sense to document it in individual packages. I would rather update the README.Debian of octave. It currently tells never to use the "pkg" command, which is bad advice, since that command is needed to load the packages. -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ Sébastien Villemot ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian Developer ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ http://sebastien.villemot.name ⠈⠳⣄ http://www.debian.org signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Bug#914373: octave-statistics: accessing installed functions is needlessly obscure
[Moving this discussion from Bug#914373 into debian-octave.] * James Van Zandt [2018-11-22 13:34]: [snip] Please provide a file /usr/share/doc/octave-statistics/README.Debian with a note something like By default installed packages are not available from the Octave prompt. The functions from this package can be added to the Octave path by typing pkg load statistics at the Octave command line. [snip] The bug reporter also suggests to add README.Debian files for all other OF packages. Do the other members of the DOG agree with this change? Rafael
Bug#914373: octave-statistics: accessing installed functions is needlessly obscure
Package: octave-statistics Version: 1.4.0-4 Severity: normal Dear Maintainer, I'm a long-time user of Matlab. One of the things that's always annoyed me is that they put so many functions into toolkits that cost extra. I've appreciated that Octave made the statistics functions available with no extra effort. So I was disappointed by this: octave:1> help chi2inv error: help: 'chi2inv' not found ...even after I had installed the octave-statistics package, which does include that function: $dpkg -L octave-statistics | grep chi2inv /usr/share/octave/packages/statistics-1.4.0/distributions/chi2inv.m I'm also a long-time user of Debian, so I checked in /usr/share/doc/octave-statistics/, but found nothing useful. The Octave info file mentioned chi2inv, without saying how to access it. Matlab has a single namespace, so any function for which a license is available is immediately available. Eventually I discovered that Octave has chosen to make functions in extra packages visible only if explicitly loaded. This does reduce namespace pollution - but it's a new concept to people used to Matlab. Please provide a file /usr/share/doc/octave-statistics/README.Debian with a note something like By default installed packages are not available from the Octave prompt. The functions from this package can be added to the Octave path by typing pkg load statistics at the Octave command line. Please add a similar note for each of the extra packages: octave-bsltl octave-communications octave-control octave-geometry octave-gsl octave-image octave-image-acquisition octave-instrument-control octave-io octave-ltfat-common octave-miscellaneous octave-netcdf octave-ocs octave-odepkg octave-optim octave-parallel octave-secs2d octave-secs3d octave-sockets octave-statistics octave-stk octave-vibes octave-zeromq (determined via "apt-file search PKG_ADD|grep packages") - Jim Van Zandt -- System Information: Debian Release: buster/sid APT prefers unstable APT policy: (700, 'unstable') Architecture: amd64 (x86_64) Foreign Architectures: i386 Kernel: Linux 4.18.0-2-amd64 (SMP w/4 CPU cores) Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8), LANGUAGE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8) Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash Init: systemd (via /run/systemd/system) LSM: AppArmor: enabled Versions of packages octave-statistics depends on: ii octave 4.4.1-2+b1 ii octave-io 2.4.12-1 octave-statistics recommends no packages. octave-statistics suggests no packages. -- no debconf information
