Bug#925530: cloud.debian.org: Debian docker images pointing to github for bug tracking
I agree with all Ross says here. Lucas, I think you should try to convince the people doing docker images to use our tools and to join the cloud team. But this is always hard in Debian. > On Sun, 28 Jun 2020 10:54:42 -0700, Ross Vandegrift > said: > [removing serpent@d.o from CC, he's resigned as delegate] > Hi Lucas, > On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 05:26:41PM +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: >> One could argue that the Cloud team delegation does not cover Docker >> images. > Whether it does or not, I've been told that the docker image maintainers prefer > to keep their current organization and workflow. I'd welcome their > participation in the team, if they were interested. But I don't think they > need to be. >> But I think that it would be a nice addition to change the delegation to >> also include official images for virtualization environments such as >> Docker, LXC, Vagrant, as well as official images for SBC such as the >> Raspberry Pi (where it's often more convenient to boot a pre-built image >> than use the Debian installer). > Maybe it could be nice, if the people building those images want to use our > tools and work with us. Some would raise concerns in my mind, but I don't > think it's useful to discuss before someone wants to build e.g. raspberry pi > images in cloud-team. > But it's also nice for people to provide images without us, or using different > tools. The delegation only covers Debian-official cloud images. And speaking > for myself: I don't feel the need to gather all other cloud-related or > image-related work under a this team. > Ross -- regards Thomas
Bug#925530: cloud.debian.org: Debian docker images pointing to github for bug tracking
On 28/06/20 at 23:38 +0200, Bernd Zeimetz wrote: > > > On 6/28/20 10:58 PM, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: > > Well, I think that it would a good thing for Debian to enforce some > > consistency on Debian images for clouds and software that require > > VM images, at least about where to find information about such images, > > and where to report problems. > > > > And I don't think that pointing to github for our tooling, and for bug > > reporting, is really an acceptable solution for something that is > > officially endorsed by Debian. > > Official *Docker* images come from > https://github.com/docker-library/official-images > > It might be possible to pull git repositories from the outside of git > hub in there, though, but I doubt it is. At least you'll have to use > github pull requests. > > Of course you are free to run your own registry even under a debian.org > domain and provide official Debian images for docker there, but as long > as you want to have them in the docker hub, I think the current practice > is just fine. And: its an image from DOCKER, maintained by Debian > developers - its not an image from DEBIAN. It says 'Docker official > images', not 'Debian official images'. > > To be honest, I fail to understand why this needs discussion at all. I don't see what would be the problem with: - tracking problems using a BTS pseudo-package - maintaining the tooling (debuerreotype) on salsa - mirroring the tooling to github, if that's a requirement - maintaining the metadata in https://github.com/docker-library/official-images/blob/master/library/debian using github (which means that only the "release" process involves github) Lucas
Bug#925530: cloud.debian.org: Debian docker images pointing to github for bug tracking
On 6/28/20 10:58 PM, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: > Well, I think that it would a good thing for Debian to enforce some > consistency on Debian images for clouds and software that require > VM images, at least about where to find information about such images, > and where to report problems. > > And I don't think that pointing to github for our tooling, and for bug > reporting, is really an acceptable solution for something that is > officially endorsed by Debian. Official *Docker* images come from https://github.com/docker-library/official-images It might be possible to pull git repositories from the outside of git hub in there, though, but I doubt it is. At least you'll have to use github pull requests. Of course you are free to run your own registry even under a debian.org domain and provide official Debian images for docker there, but as long as you want to have them in the docker hub, I think the current practice is just fine. And: its an image from DOCKER, maintained by Debian developers - its not an image from DEBIAN. It says 'Docker official images', not 'Debian official images'. To be honest, I fail to understand why this needs discussion at all. -- Bernd ZeimetzDebian GNU/Linux Developer http://bzed.dehttp://www.debian.org GPG Fingerprint: ECA1 E3F2 8E11 2432 D485 DD95 EB36 171A 6FF9 435F
Bug#925530: cloud.debian.org: Debian docker images pointing to github for bug tracking
On 28/06/20 at 10:54 -0700, Ross Vandegrift wrote: > [removing serpent@d.o from CC, he's resigned as delegate] > > Hi Lucas, > > On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 05:26:41PM +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: > > One could argue that the Cloud team delegation does not cover Docker > > images. > > Whether it does or not, I've been told that the docker image maintainers > prefer > to keep their current organization and workflow. I'd welcome their > participation in the team, if they were interested. But I don't think they > need to be. Well, I think that it would a good thing for Debian to enforce some consistency on Debian images for clouds and software that require VM images, at least about where to find information about such images, and where to report problems. And I don't think that pointing to github for our tooling, and for bug reporting, is really an acceptable solution for something that is officially endorsed by Debian. Solving this for Docker or Vagrant sounds very similar to solving it for cloud images; so it's probably best if the same people are in charge. > Maybe it could be nice, if the people building those images want to use our > tools and work with us. Some would raise concerns in my mind, but I don't > think it's useful to discuss before someone wants to build e.g. raspberry pi > images in cloud-team. I'm surprised by this. I thought of the delegation as a (soft) hammer to enforce some rules, even when people are not nice and don't want to work with the cloud team (I'm not saying it's the case here). I've seen people saying "oh look, the official Debian images for docker point to github! that's funnny!". If those images are not official, then this should be clarified. If they are, then they should probably conform to standard ways of maintaining stuff in Debian. Lucas
Bug#925530: cloud.debian.org: Debian docker images pointing to github for bug tracking
[removing serpent@d.o from CC, he's resigned as delegate] Hi Lucas, On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 05:26:41PM +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: > One could argue that the Cloud team delegation does not cover Docker > images. Whether it does or not, I've been told that the docker image maintainers prefer to keep their current organization and workflow. I'd welcome their participation in the team, if they were interested. But I don't think they need to be. > But I think that it would be a nice addition to change the delegation to > also include official images for virtualization environments such as > Docker, LXC, Vagrant, as well as official images for SBC such as the > Raspberry Pi (where it's often more convenient to boot a pre-built image > than use the Debian installer). Maybe it could be nice, if the people building those images want to use our tools and work with us. Some would raise concerns in my mind, but I don't think it's useful to discuss before someone wants to build e.g. raspberry pi images in cloud-team. But it's also nice for people to provide images without us, or using different tools. The delegation only covers Debian-official cloud images. And speaking for myself: I don't feel the need to gather all other cloud-related or image-related work under a this team. Ross
Bug#925530: cloud.debian.org: Debian docker images pointing to github for bug tracking
On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 05:26:41PM +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: > > On https://hub.docker.com/_/debian, there's: > > > > > Where to file issues: > > > https://github.com/debuerreotype/docker-debian-artifacts/issues > > This hasn't changed. The Debian official images still point to github > for bug tracking. I would expect the BTS to be used for bug tracking > (and salsa for maintaining the generation tools) Not wanting to speak for paultag or tianon, but I don't think the intent has ever been to present these as "Debian's official images for Docker." In fact, the language used is "Docker Official Images". These are "Docker's official Debian images". The difference may be subtle, but is significant. > One could argue that the Cloud team delegation does not cover Docker > images. The delegation says: > > > With the Debian Trademark Team, establish policies and procedures > > for the Debian Cloud Team regarding "Official Debian Cloud > > Images" for both open and proprietary platforms. > > The current version of those policies is, AFAIK, > https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DPL/OfficialImages > > But I think that it would be a nice addition to change the delegation to > also include official images for virtualization environments such as > Docker, LXC, Vagrant, as well as official images for SBC such as the > Raspberry Pi (where it's often more convenient to boot a pre-built image > than use the Debian installer). This proposal increasingly diverges from any common definition of "cloud". noah signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Bug#925530: cloud.debian.org: Debian docker images pointing to github for bug tracking
[Note: re-sending to the correct bug address... ] (Cced: docker images maintainers ; cloud team delegates) Hi, As this was reassigned to 'general', it's probably time to do a status update. First, I would like to acknowledge the work done by those maintaining those images, and thank them for that. However ... On 26/03/19 at 12:25 +0100, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: > On https://hub.docker.com/_/debian, there's: > > > Where to file issues: > > https://github.com/debuerreotype/docker-debian-artifacts/issues This hasn't changed. The Debian official images still point to github for bug tracking. I would expect the BTS to be used for bug tracking (and salsa for maintaining the generation tools) One could argue that the Cloud team delegation does not cover Docker images. The delegation says: > With the Debian Trademark Team, establish policies and procedures > for the Debian Cloud Team regarding "Official Debian Cloud > Images" for both open and proprietary platforms. The current version of those policies is, AFAIK, https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DPL/OfficialImages But I think that it would be a nice addition to change the delegation to also include official images for virtualization environments such as Docker, LXC, Vagrant, as well as official images for SBC such as the Raspberry Pi (where it's often more convenient to boot a pre-built image than use the Debian installer). Lucas
Bug#925530: cloud.debian.org: Debian docker images pointing to github for bug tracking
Control: reassign -1 general On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 12:25:12PM +0100, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: > On https://hub.docker.com/_/debian, there's: > > > Where to file issues: > > https://github.com/debuerreotype/docker-debian-artifacts/issues > > Are those official images? I'm surprised by official Debian images > pointing to a non-free web service. I would expect the BTS to be used > for bug tracking. > > Also, there's: > > Where to get help: > > the Docker Community Forums, the Docker Community Slack, or Stack Overflow The cloud team isn't involved in the generation of Docker images, so it definitely belongs to something other than 'cloud.debian.org'... I can't think of anything better than general for now, so I'm reassigning there... noah
Bug#925530: cloud.debian.org: Debian docker images pointing to github for bug tracking
On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 12:25:12PM +0100, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: > On https://hub.docker.com/_/debian, there's: > > > Where to file issues: > > https://github.com/debuerreotype/docker-debian-artifacts/issues > > Are those official images? I'm surprised by official Debian images > pointing to a non-free web service. I would expect the BTS to be used > for bug tracking. Well, Docker Hub itself is a non-free service. Further, there are other official Debian components (packages in main) that use GitHub for their primary work coordination, so this is not without precident. > Also, there's: > > Where to get help: > > the Docker Community Forums, the Docker Community Slack, or Stack Overflow Those are Docker's official help channels. With all that said, the Debian Docker images aren't covered under the cloud.debian.org pseudopackage, so I guess you'll need to follow up with tianon or paultag... Or open an issue on GitHub. ;) noah signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Bug#925530: cloud.debian.org: Debian docker images pointing to github for bug tracking
Package: cloud.debian.org Severity: important Hi, On https://hub.docker.com/_/debian, there's: > Where to file issues: > https://github.com/debuerreotype/docker-debian-artifacts/issues Are those official images? I'm surprised by official Debian images pointing to a non-free web service. I would expect the BTS to be used for bug tracking. Also, there's: > Where to get help: > the Docker Community Forums, the Docker Community Slack, or Stack Overflow Lucas -- System Information: Debian Release: 9.8 APT prefers stable-updates APT policy: (500, 'stable-updates'), (500, 'stable'), (400, 'testing') Architecture: amd64 (x86_64) Foreign Architectures: armhf Kernel: Linux 4.18.0-0.bpo.1-amd64 (SMP w/8 CPU cores) Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8), LANGUAGE=en_US:en (charmap=UTF-8) Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash Init: systemd (via /run/systemd/system)
