Bug#408879: /bin/ps: TIME drifted

[Craig Small]

this time with the right email alias.

On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 1:01 PM Craig Small  wrote:

> Hello Paul,
>   I'm chasing up old procps bugs and noticed this one is still opened.
> It's been a long way since a 2.6 kernel and 3.2.x procps, wondering
> if you still get your odd start times?
>
>  - Craig
> --
> Craig Small (@smallsees)   http://enc.com.au/   csmall at : enc.com.au
> Debian GNU/Linux   http://www.debian.org/   csmall at : debian.org
> GPG fingerprint:5D2F B320 B825 D939 04D2  0519 3938 F96B DF50 FEA5
>

Bug#408879: /bin/ps: TIME drifted

[Craig Small]

Hello Paul,
  I'm chasing up old procps bugs and noticed this one is still opened.
It's been a long way since a 2.6 kernel and 3.2.x procps, wondering
if you still get your odd start times?

 - Craig
-- 
Craig Small (@smallsees)   http://enc.com.au/   csmall at : enc.com.au
Debian GNU/Linux   http://www.debian.org/   csmall at : debian.org
GPG fingerprint:5D2F B320 B825 D939 04D2  0519 3938 F96B DF50 FEA5

Bug#408879: /bin/ps: TIME drifted

[Craig Small]

On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 12:06:27PM +1100, paul.sz...@sydney.edu.au wrote:
 Testing this old thing again at squeeze 6.0.4 with 2.6.32 kernel, 
 can still reproduce, the long command in previous message shows:
Hi Paul,
  Thanks for letting me know this is still a problem. The only thing is,
I couldn't see which version of procps you were using.  We've had a lot
of changes in the 3.3.x versions.

Is it always just a second earlier? That is what I'm noticing.

The relevant code is:
 t = getbtime() + pp-start_time / Hertz;

getbtime is basically 'grep btime /proc/stat'
start_time comes from column 23 of /proc/PID/stat divided by jiffies.

It is looking like a kernel problem, or more specifically a procfs
output problem.

 - Craig

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Bug#408879: /bin/ps: TIME drifted

[paul . szabo]

Dear Craig,

 I couldn't see which version of procps you were using.

dpkg -l shows ii procps 1:3.2.8-9 ... (squeeze up-to-date).

 Is it always just a second earlier? ...

Yes, it seems so. Have not seen any other discrepancies for a long time
now.

 It is looking like a kernel problem, or more specifically a procfs
 output problem.

I also think so. Please let me know if I should run some other tests.
(Noting bug #657916 also.)

Thanks, Paul

Paul Szabo   p...@maths.usyd.edu.au   http://www.maths.usyd.edu.au/u/psz/
School of Mathematics and Statistics   University of SydneyAustralia



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Bug#408879: /bin/ps: TIME drifted

[paul . szabo]

Testing this old thing again at squeeze 6.0.4 with 2.6.32 kernel, 
can still reproduce, the long command in previous message shows:


$ while :; do \
date; /bin/ps -o lstart,command | grep /ps; date; echo; \
  done | \
  perl -ne '
BEGIN { $/ = \n\n }
@x=grep(s/^(... ... .. ..:..:..).*$/$1/, split(/\n/));
$p=; $z=0;
$z ||= $p gt $_, $p=$_ foreach @x;
print if $z'
Mon Jan 30 12:00:45 EST 2012
Mon Jan 30 12:00:44 2012 /bin/ps -o lstart,command
Mon Jan 30 12:00:44 2012 grep /ps
Mon Jan 30 12:00:45 EST 2012

Mon Jan 30 12:00:52 EST 2012
Mon Jan 30 12:00:51 2012 /bin/ps -o lstart,command
Mon Jan 30 12:00:51 2012 grep /ps
Mon Jan 30 12:00:52 EST 2012

...

Cheers, Paul

Paul Szabo   p...@maths.usyd.edu.au   http://www.maths.usyd.edu.au/u/psz/
School of Mathematics and Statistics   University of SydneyAustralia



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Bug#408879: /bin/ps: TIME drifted

[paul . szabo]

I can still (2.6.24 kernel, lenny up-to-date) reproduce with command
(wrapped for readability, OK for cut-and-paste into xterm, ctrl-C when
had enough):

  while :; do \
date; /bin/ps -o lstart,command | grep /ps; date; echo; \
  done | \
  perl -ne '
BEGIN { $/ = \n\n }
@x=grep(s/^(... ... .. ..:..:..).*$/$1/, split(/\n/));
$p=; $z=0;
$z ||= $p gt $_, $p=$_ foreach @x;
print if $z'

that shows things like:

Wed Aug 25 12:36:44 EST 2010
Wed Aug 25 12:36:43 2010 /bin/ps -o lstart,command
Wed Aug 25 12:36:44 EST 2010

Should the tag unreproducible be removed?

Thanks, Paul

Paul Szabo   p...@maths.usyd.edu.au   http://www.maths.usyd.edu.au/u/psz/
School of Mathematics and Statistics   University of SydneyAustralia



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Bug#408879: /bin/ps: TIME drifted

[Paul Szabo]

One day after the lenny upgrade and last boot of the machine, there
does not seem to be a great time drift. I was running something like

while :; do
  date; /bin/ps -o lstart,command | grep /ps; date
done

and that showed:

...

Thu May 14 13:18:42 EST 2009
Thu May 14 13:18:42 2009 /bin/ps -o lstart,command
Thu May 14 13:18:42 EST 2009

Thu May 14 13:18:43 EST 2009
Thu May 14 13:18:43 2009 /bin/ps -o lstart,command
Thu May 14 13:18:43 EST 2009
(above block repeated 22 times)

Thu May 14 13:18:43 EST 2009
Thu May 14 13:18:42 2009 /bin/ps -o lstart,commandnote bad time
Thu May 14 13:18:43 EST 2009

Thu May 14 13:18:43 EST 2009
Thu May 14 13:18:43 2009 /bin/ps -o lstart,command
Thu May 14 13:18:43 EST 2009
(above block repeated 8 times)

Thu May 14 13:18:44 EST 2009
Thu May 14 13:18:44 2009 /bin/ps -o lstart,command
Thu May 14 13:18:44 EST 2009

...

which would suggest something other than a few milliseconds drift.
Rather curious; the bad time always positioned about the 3/4 of
the elapsed second...

Cheers,

Paul Szabo   p...@maths.usyd.edu.au   http://www.maths.usyd.edu.au/u/psz/
School of Mathematics and Statistics   University of SydneyAustralia



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Bug#408879: /bin/ps: TIME drifted

[Paul Szabo]

I have now updated my problem machine to lenny and 2.6.26 kernel:

r...@pisa:~# cat /etc/debian_version
5.0.1
r...@pisa:~# uname -r
2.6.26-pk03.10-svr

and the problem already is visible two hours after boot:

r...@pisa:~# date; /bin/ps -o lstart,command | grep /ps; date
Wed May 13 11:40:18 EST 2009
Wed May 13 11:40:17 2009 /bin/ps -o lstart,command
Wed May 13 11:40:17 2009 grep /ps
Wed May 13 11:40:18 EST 2009

(I expect the time drift to grow steadily).

Cheers,

Paul Szabo   p...@maths.usyd.edu.au   http://www.maths.usyd.edu.au/u/psz/
School of Mathematics and Statistics   University of SydneyAustralia



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Bug#408879: /bin/ps: TIME drifted

[Craig Small]

On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 12:58:54PM +1000, Paul Szabo wrote:
 Running the commands suggested, I get:
That's interesting, but its looking like its not a procps bug.  Or
perhaps there is something procps assumes that is incorrect.

There is no overflow problems here, the manual calculation is agreeing
with procps

   PID START CMD
 24954 12:48 bash
and
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ echo '1218423322 - 2339691.29  + ( 233925387  /100 )' | 
 bc | perl -e 'use Time::localtime; my $mytime=; ; print  
 ctime($mytime).\n;'
 Mon Aug 11 12:48:03 2008

Looking at the values:
 The now() time is correct.
 The uptime is about 29 days, the computer was booted 11am 15th July

Now you would expect that the uptime and the process start time would be
pretty close to each other, because they are being done at the same
time, or a second or so between them. But they are not:

In fact, your process start time is *less* than the uptime, by about 438
seconds, or 7 minutes.

 Mon Aug 11 12:55:15 EST 2008
 Mon Aug 11 12:48:03 2008
That's 7 minutes.

So, the kernel is giving the wrong start time.

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Bug#408879: /bin/ps: TIME drifted

[Paul Szabo]

Dear Craig,

 ... its looking like its not a procps bug.  Or
 perhaps there is something procps assumes that is incorrect.

I suspect the latter (this is idle speculation, without having delved
into the sources).

 ... your process start time is *less* than the uptime ...
 So, the kernel is giving the wrong start time.

Does the start time given by the kernel need a correction? Is the bug
in the kernel for lieing, or in ps for not applying that correction?

Cheers,

Paul Szabo   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.maths.usyd.edu.au/u/psz/
School of Mathematics and Statistics   University of SydneyAustralia



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Bug#408879: /bin/ps: TIME drifted

[Craig Small]

On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 03:13:50PM +1000, Paul Szabo wrote:
 I often observe this, mostly on that one machine pisa. I do not think
 pisa is special in any way: has same hardware as some others, runs the
 same kernel, more-or-less the same daemons. Pisa is still running sarge:
Curious, just a standard type computer. There are some arches where the
jiffies don't quite work and I thought it was that.

Probably best to work out what numbers we use.

Start time is found in the 22nd field of /proc/pid/stat and is in
number of jiffies since the computer had booted. To get this to a wall
clock start time we add the boot time of the computer to the converted
start time. BUT, to get the boot time we need to subtract the uptime of
the computer from now.

Or:
 w_stime = (now - uptime) + ( j_stime / Hertz)

w_stime is wall clock start time
now is seconds since epoch for the time now
uptime is first column of /proc/uptime
j_stime is 22nd column of /proc/pid/uptime
Hertz is usually 100

Can you run the following commands, you will need to change the PID to
whatever process id you have.

PID=21789 ; ( date +%s - ; cut -f 1 -d ' ' /proc/uptime ; echo  + (
; cut -f 22 -d ' ' /proc/$PID/stat ; echo ' / 100 )' ) | (tr '\n' ' ' ;
echo ) ; ps -p $PID -o pid,start_time,cmd

then take the first line of the output (not the ps bit)  and then:

echo THE OUTPUT | bc | perl -e 'use Time::localtime; my $mytime=; ; print
ctime($mytime).\n;'

So for me I get:

gonzo$ PID=21789 ; ( date +%s - ; cut -f 1 -d ' ' /proc/uptime ; echo  + ( 
; cut -f 22 -d ' ' /proc/$PID/stat ; echo ' / 100 )' ) | (tr '\n' ' '
; echo ) ; ps -p $PID -o pid,start_time,cmd
1218419241 - 251503.45  + ( 24646725  / 100 )
  PID START CMD
21789 10:23 sshd: [EMAIL PROTECTED]/0
gonzo$ echo 1218419241 - 251503.45  + ( 24646725  / 100 ) | bc | perl -e 'use 
Time::localtime; my $mytime=; ; print  ctime($mytime).\n;'
  Mon Aug 11 10:23:24 2008

As you can see, I'm getting the same results (10:23) here. We may have
an under/overflow problem too.

 - Craig
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Bug#408879: /bin/ps: TIME drifted

[Paul Szabo]

Running the commands suggested, I get:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ date
Mon Aug 11 12:55:15 EST 2008
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ bash
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ PID=$$; ( date +%s - ; cut -f 1 -d ' ' /proc/uptime ; 
echo  + ( ; cut -f 22 -d ' ' /proc/$PID/stat ; echo ' /100 )' ) | (tr '\n' ' 
'; echo ) ; ps -p $PID -o pid,start_time,cmd
1218423322 - 2339691.29  + ( 233925387  /100 ) 
  PID START CMD
24954 12:48 bash
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ echo '1218423322 - 2339691.29  + ( 233925387  /100 )' | bc 
| perl -e 'use Time::localtime; my $mytime=; ; print  ctime($mytime).\n;'
Mon Aug 11 12:48:03 2008
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ date
Mon Aug 11 12:55:46 EST 2008
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ exit
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ date
Mon Aug 11 12:55:49 EST 2008

Cheers,

Paul Szabo   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.maths.usyd.edu.au/u/psz/
School of Mathematics and Statistics   University of SydneyAustralia



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Bug#408879: /bin/ps: TIME drifted

[Craig Small]

tags 408879 unreproducible
thankyou
On Mon, Feb 26, 2007 at 06:41:24AM -0500, Justin Pryzby wrote:
 Might have expected hz to be accurate to better than .02; on another machine:
Ah, it might be related to the Hertz calculation, but the bug submitters
are not using strange architectures so its not that.

The problem here is I don't see it. My start times always seem to line
up, when I check them.  I've also used ntp for years.

I'm not sure anyone is seeing this problem anymore, which if noone is
then I'll close the bug.

 - Craig
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Bug#408879: /bin/ps: TIME drifted

[Paul Szabo]

I still see the problem:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ date; /bin/ps ux | grep /ps; date
Sun Aug 10 14:45:24 EST 2008
psz  15724  0.0  0.0  2496  844 pts/3R+   14:38   0:00 /bin/ps ux
psz  15725  0.0  0.0  1548  472 pts/3S+   14:38   0:00 grep /ps
Sun Aug 10 14:45:24 EST 2008

I often observe this, mostly on that one machine pisa. I do not think
pisa is special in any way: has same hardware as some others, runs the
same kernel, more-or-less the same daemons. Pisa is still running sarge:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ cat /etc/debian_version
3.1
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ uname -a
Linux pisa.maths.usyd.edu.au 2.6.8-spm1.11 #1 SMP Mon Jul 23 18:53:40 EST 2007 
i686 GNU/Linux

This behaviour is not unique, some other (also sarge but hardware-wise
completely different) machines also show the problem:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# date; /bin/ps ux | grep /ps; date
Sun Aug 10 14:58:24 EST 2008
root 15027  0.0  0.1  2504  852 pts/1R+   14:57   0:00 /bin/ps ux
root 15028  0.0  0.0  1556  484 pts/1S+   14:57   0:00 grep /ps
Sun Aug 10 14:58:24 EST 2008

I do not see the problem on all my machines; some though exactly the
same hardware as pisa, never exhibited the problem (not while they
were running sarge, not now under etch). I do not now see the problem
on any etch machines.

Thanks, Paul

Paul Szabo   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.maths.usyd.edu.au/u/psz/
School of Mathematics and Statistics   University of SydneyAustralia



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Bug#408879: /bin/ps: TIME drifted

[Justin Pryzby]

On Mon, Feb 19, 2007 at 09:50:36AM +1100, Craig Small wrote:
 On Sun, Feb 18, 2007 at 03:38:00PM -0500, Justin Pryzby wrote:
  I'm of the understanding that ntp uses adjtimex() to do it's stuff.
 
 I suppose the next thing to work out is, is it a kernel problem or a ps
 problem.
I guess (strace) it uses some combination of /proc/uptime and
/proc/PID/stat

  starttime %lu
   The time in jiffies  the  process  started
   after  system boot.

uptime (jiffies):   sh -c 'cut -d  -f22 /proc/$$/stat'
uptime (seconds):   cut -d' ' -f1 /proc/uptime

$ date; ps aux |tail -1
Thu Feb 22 08:57:35 EST 2007
jpryzby  20446  0.0  0.0   2696   472 pts/1521 R+   09:37   0:00 tail -1

$ echo `sh -c 'cut -d  -f22 /proc/$$/stat'` / `cut -d' ' -f1 /proc/uptime` 
|bc -l
100.0230992939513293

but,
 09:06:13 up 118 days, 13:39,  9 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.02, 0.00

Might have expected hz to be accurate to better than .02; on another machine:

  up 15 days 99.9777870238057132 (1000 more accurate)

I don't know if that can explain it.


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Bug#408879: /bin/ps: TIME drifted

[Paul Szabo]

Justin,

 does this happen to you on a laptop machine, or otherwise?

I do not have Debian laptops. So it is otherwise: on my main
departmental login server

Cheers,

Paul Szabo   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.maths.usyd.edu.au/u/psz/
School of Mathematics and Statistics   University of SydneyAustralia


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Bug#408879: /bin/ps: TIME drifted

[Justin Pryzby]

On Sun, Feb 18, 2007 at 09:29:05PM +1100, Paul Szabo wrote:
 Justin,
 
  does this happen to you on a laptop machine, or otherwise?
 
 I do not have Debian laptops. So it is otherwise: on my main
 departmental login server
Same for us.  You mentioned bug #161633, in which the submitter is
clearly convinced that it is APM suspend time that isn't taken into
account.  Do you suspect some particular cause here, too?  (Or, you
aren't suspending your shell server, are you?)

Justin


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Bug#408879: /bin/ps: TIME drifted

[Paul Szabo]

Justin,

 ... Do you suspect some particular cause here, too?

Yes, I blame ntpd. I only guess that it uses suspend to slow
things down. (No, I wouldn't manually suspend my server.)

Cheers,

Paul Szabo   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.maths.usyd.edu.au/u/psz/
School of Mathematics and Statistics   University of SydneyAustralia


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Bug#408879: /bin/ps: TIME drifted

[Justin Pryzby]

On Mon, Feb 19, 2007 at 06:41:24AM +1100, Paul Szabo wrote:
 Justin,
 
  ... Do you suspect some particular cause here, too?
 
 Yes, I blame ntpd. I only guess that it uses suspend to slow
 things down. (No, I wouldn't manually suspend my server.)
I'm of the understanding that ntp uses adjtimex() to do it's stuff.


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Bug#408879: /bin/ps: TIME drifted

[Craig Small]

On Sun, Feb 18, 2007 at 03:38:00PM -0500, Justin Pryzby wrote:
 I'm of the understanding that ntp uses adjtimex() to do it's stuff.

I suppose the next thing to work out is, is it a kernel problem or a ps
problem.

 - Craig

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Bug#408879: /bin/ps: TIME drifted

[Justin Pryzby]

On Mon, Jan 29, 2007 at 09:49:49AM +1100, Paul Szabo wrote:
 Again looking at BTS, this bug seems similar to #161633.
me too; Paul, does this happen to you on a laptop machine, or
otherwise?


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Bug#408879: /bin/ps: TIME drifted

[Paul Szabo]

Package: procps
Version: 1:3.2.1-2
Severity: normal
File: /bin/ps


We use ntpd to keep time synced. Then somehow the machine uses two times,
a good one set by ntpd, and an internal drifted one that should never
be shown. Confusingly, ps shows the wrong START time:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ date
Mon Jan 29 08:47:40 EST 2007
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ last -1 
psz  pts/6y622.yt.maths.us Mon Jan 29 08:46   still logged in   

wtmp begins Mon Jan  1 08:54:56 2007
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ps aux | grep -E 'psz|USER'
USER   PID %CPU %MEM   VSZ  RSS TTY  STAT START   TIME COMMAND
psz  14608  0.0  0.0  8568 2896 ?S08:33   0:00 xterm -font 9x15 
-bg #ffdab9 -fg black -T [EMAIL PROTECTED] -n [EMAIL PROTECTED] -sb -sl 1 
-ls
psz  14611  0.0  0.0  2568 1436 pts/6Ss   08:33   0:00 -bash
psz  14626  0.0  0.0  1548  472 pts/6S+   08:34   0:00 grep -E psz|USER
psz  14627  0.0  0.0  2496  848 pts/6R+   08:34   0:00 ps aux
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ 

Cheers,

Paul Szabo   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.maths.usyd.edu.au/u/psz/
School of Mathematics and Statistics   University of SydneyAustralia


-- System Information:
Debian Release: 3.1
Architecture: i386 (i686)
Kernel: Linux 2.6.8-spm1.7
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C (charmap=ANSI_X3.4-1968)

Versions of packages procps depends on:
ii  libc6 2.3.2.ds1-22sarge4 GNU C Library: Shared libraries an
ii  libncurses5   5.4-4  Shared libraries for terminal hand

-- no debconf information


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Bug#408879: /bin/ps: TIME drifted

[Paul Szabo]

Again looking at BTS, this bug seems similar to #161633.

Cheers,

Paul Szabo   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.maths.usyd.edu.au/u/psz/
School of Mathematics and Statistics   University of SydneyAustralia


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