Bug#871534: debian-policy: Clarify whether mailing lists in Maintainers/Uploaders may be moderated

[Chris Lamb]

Hi,

Apologies for the delay in replying here.

> (There's probably some room to offer advice to maintainers on how
> to run the mailing list, but that feels more like devref material
> than Policy material.)

Indeed. Please go ahead and close this as an issue for Policy. :

If I see such moderated mailing lists in the future I'll ask them
to stop sending the quasi-bounce messages.


Best wishes,

-- 
  ,''`.
 : :'  : Chris Lamb
 `. `'`  la...@debian.org / chris-lamb.co.uk
   `-

Bug#871534: debian-policy: Clarify whether mailing lists in Maintainers/Uploaders may be moderated

[Russ Allbery]

Per the message below, I propose to close this bug because I think this is
already addressed reasonably well.  (There's probably some room to offer
advice to maintainers on how to run the mailing list, but that feels more
like devref material than Policy material.)

Chris, any objections?  Am I missing some aspect of your original bug
report?

Russ Allbery  writes:

> My personal feeling is that the current vagueness is a feature rather
> than a bug.  I think a moderated mailing list is fine *if* the
> moderation queue is very promptly processed, but not okay if the
> moderation queue is just a place for messages to go to die.

> I feel like Policy already strikes a fairly good balance here:

> The maintainer must be specified in the Maintainer control field
> with their correct name and a working email address. The email
> address given in the Maintainer control field must accept mail from
> those role accounts in Debian used to send automated mails regarding
> the package. This includes non-spam mail from the bug-tracking
> system, all mail from the Debian archive maintenance software, and
> other role accounts or automated processes that are commonly agreed
> on by the project.

> and also note the footnote, which directly addresses moderated mailing
> lists:

> A sample implementation of such a whitelist written for the Mailman
> mailing list management software is used for mailing lists hosted by
> alioth.debian.org.

> This language dates from an earlier bug about moderated mailing lists
> from ftp-master, and was the result of that bug discussion.

-- 
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)   

Bug#871534: debian-policy: Clarify whether mailing lists in Maintainers/Uploaders may be moderated

[Bill Allombert]

On Tue, Aug 08, 2017 at 08:06:46PM -0400, Chris Lamb wrote:
> Hi Bill,
> 
> > How do you define "moderated" ? 
> 
> I can't really, sorry. I guess getting a "Your message awaits moderator
> approval" quasi-bounce… but that's not exactly right.

If the list is moderated correctly, the message will get through
fast enough that such quasi-bounce are useless and just an annoying
distraction.
Unfortunately, sending quasi-bounce is the default choice when setting
a moderated list on alioth.

We should relly discourage it independently of moderation.

Cheers,
-- 
Bill. 

Imagine a large red swirl here. 

Bug#871534: debian-policy: Clarify whether mailing lists in Maintainers/Uploaders may be moderated

[Russ Allbery]

Chris Lamb  writes:

> Hi Bill,

>> How do you define "moderated" ? 

> I can't really, sorry. I guess getting a "Your message awaits moderator
> approval" quasi-bounce… but that's not exactly right.

My personal feeling is that the current vagueness is a feature rather than
a bug.  I think a moderated mailing list is fine *if* the moderation queue
is very promptly processed, but not okay if the moderation queue is just a
place for messages to go to die.

I feel like Policy already strikes a fairly good balance here:

The maintainer must be specified in the Maintainer control field with
their correct name and a working email address. The email address
given in the Maintainer control field must accept mail from those role
accounts in Debian used to send automated mails regarding the
package. This includes non-spam mail from the bug-tracking system, all
mail from the Debian archive maintenance software, and other role
accounts or automated processes that are commonly agreed on by the
project.

and also note the footnote, which directly addresses moderated mailing
lists:

A sample implementation of such a whitelist written for the Mailman
mailing list management software is used for mailing lists hosted by
alioth.debian.org.

This language dates from an earlier bug about moderated mailing lists from
ftp-master, and was the result of that bug discussion.

-- 
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)   

Bug#871534: debian-policy: Clarify whether mailing lists in Maintainers/Uploaders may be moderated

[Chris Lamb]

Hi Bill,

> How do you define "moderated" ? 

I can't really, sorry. I guess getting a "Your message awaits moderator
approval" quasi-bounce… but that's not exactly right.


Regards,

-- 
  ,''`.
 : :'  : Chris Lamb
 `. `'`  la...@debian.org / chris-lamb.co.uk
   `-

Bug#871534: debian-policy: Clarify whether mailing lists in Maintainers/Uploaders may be moderated

[Chris Lamb]

Hi Bill,

> How do you define "moderated" ? 

I can't really, sorry. I guess getting a "Your message awaits moderator
approval" quasi-bounce… but that's not exactly right.


Regards,

-- 
  ,''`.
 : :'  : Chris Lamb
 `. `'`  la...@debian.org / chris-lamb.co.uk
   `-

Bug#871534: debian-policy: Clarify whether mailing lists in Maintainers/Uploaders may be moderated

[Bill Allombert]

On Tue, Aug 08, 2017 at 04:58:15PM -0400, Chris Lamb wrote:
> Package: debian-policy
> Version: 4.0.1.0
> Severity: wishlist
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Please clarify whether mailing lists in Maintainers/Uploaders may
> point to moderated mailing lists.
> 
> Having such a list in the Maintainer field, even in the cases where
> they are actively and regularly monitored, appears to violate the
> spirit of Section 3.3 which stipulates a "working email address".

How do you define "moderated" ? 

Cheers,
-- 
Bill. 

Imagine a large red swirl here. 

Bug#871534: debian-policy: Clarify whether mailing lists in Maintainers/Uploaders may be moderated

[Chris Lamb]

Package: debian-policy
Version: 4.0.1.0
Severity: wishlist

Hi,

Please clarify whether mailing lists in Maintainers/Uploaders may
point to moderated mailing lists.

Having such a list in the Maintainer field, even in the cases where
they are actively and regularly monitored, appears to violate the
spirit of Section 3.3 which stipulates a "working email address".


Regards,

-- 
  ,''`.
 : :'  : Chris Lamb
 `. `'`  la...@debian.org / chris-lamb.co.uk
   `-