Bug#878074: Update virtualbox-guest-* will remove a well running ntp

[Gianfranco Costamagna]

>VirtualBox guest. I expect this conflict against ntp will mean that my clock 
>will drift on days/weeks where I'm not running Windows. My personal preference 
>would be for a different solution...


the clock will probably sync with the bootloader or internal clock one, not 
sure why it
should drift.

Anyhow, I'm reverting this change...

>And, as per https://xkcd.com/1172/ , I await your response of "That's 

>horrifying." :)

because this one is one of my favourite xkcd quotes :)

(well, the python3 import antigravity is superior, but OT)


G.

Bug#878074: Update virtualbox-guest-* will remove a well running ntp

[Brendon Higgins]

With the theme that every change breaks someone's workflow*, my workflow has it 
that I usually run my Debian partition in a real environment, but sometimes I 
have to run Windows, so when that's the case I run my Debian partition as as 
VirtualBox guest. I expect this conflict against ntp will mean that my clock 
will drift on days/weeks where I'm not running Windows. My personal preference 
would be for a different solution...

Peace,
Brendon

*And, as per https://xkcd.com/1172/ , I await your response of "That's 
horrifying." :)

Bug#878074: Update virtualbox-guest-* will remove a well running ntp

[Gianfranco Costamagna]

control: severity -1 important

Hello Joerg,

>I think if virtualbox-guest-utils has problems with ntp, virtualbox-
>guest-utils should fix this problem instead of uninstalling a standard
>program used for years.
>
>On the other hand I find it impossible that neither a reference to the
>deletion of ntp in the changelog is present nor in the NEWS.


* Conflict with ntp services due to systemd hack removed.
(Closes: #873263)

>I have absolutely nothing against that virtualbox-guest-utils use its
>own time synchronization, but system-wide only if no other time server
>runs.
>It is also incomprehensible for users to install virtualbox-guest-utils 
>as a time server.
>Therefore, I reopen the bug again.


this is nothing against NTP, problem is just that simply vbox can't use it.

VBox has to use its internal implementations of various tools, by kernel 
modules,
e.g. usb bridging, copy-paste, file drag and drop, vboxvideo, and so on.

Simply, the current tools can't cope with virtualbox needs because they aren't 
aware
of it (and they shouldn't be).

If you want to use ntp, just remove virtualbox-guest-utils and use it?

e.g. VBoxService can cope with a misconfigured network, or with other sort of 
issues, e.g.
when no connectivity is found, it will get the time from the host, and sync it 
with the guest.

It is superior than NTP, just because it has been created to cope with such 
special cases

So, I can lower the conflict to ntp, but what will happen with two NTP servers 
running together
on the same machine?

This might be a big source of troubles, and btw systemd-timesyncd was already 
configured to be silenced
when vbox is in place.

G.

Bug#878074: Update virtualbox-guest-* will remove a well running ntp

[Jörg Frings-Fürst]

reopen 878074 
thanks

Hello,

Am Montag, den 09.10.2017, 16:56 +0200 schrieb Gianfranco Costamagna:
> On Mon, 09 Oct 2017 16:48:00 +0200 =?utf-8?q?J=C3=B6rg_Frings-F=C3=BCrst?= 
>  wrote:
> > Package: virtualbox-guest-utils
> > Version: 5.1.28-dfsg-1
> > Severity: serious
> > 
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA512
> > 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > on update I get :
> > 
> > [quote]
> > $ sudo apt-get install virtualbox-guest-dkms
> > Paketlisten werden gelesen... Fertig
> > Abhängigkeitsbaum wird aufgebaut.
> > Statusinformationen werden eingelesen Fertig
> > Die folgenden Pakete wurden automatisch installiert und werden nicht mehr
> > benötigt:
> >   gir1.2-nm-1.0 sntp
> > Verwenden Sie »sudo apt autoremove«, um sie zu entfernen.
> > The following additional packages will be installed:
> >   virtualbox-guest-utils virtualbox-guest-x11
> > Die folgenden Pakete werden ENTFERNT:
> >   ntp
> > Die folgenden Pakete werden aktualisiert (Upgrade):
> >   virtualbox-guest-dkms virtualbox-guest-utils virtualbox-guest-x11
> > 3 aktualisiert, 0 neu installiert, 1 zu entfernen und 193 nicht 
> > aktualisiert.
> > Es müssen noch 0 B von 2.082 kB an Archiven heruntergeladen werden.
> > Nach dieser Operation werden 1.980 kB Plattenplatz freigegeben.
> > Möchten Sie fortfahren? [J/n] n
> > Abbruch.
> > [/quote]
> > 
> > The same with virtualbox-guest-x11 and virtualbox-guest-utils.
> > 
> > I have set the severity to serious, because with the deletion of an 
> > important
> > system tool the stability is significantly disturbed.
> > 
> 
> This is not a bug, but a design thing.
> NTP can't work with virtualbox, because virtualbox is in charge of keeping 
> the time up-to-date, with the guest-utils tools
> e.g. with VBoxService.
> 
> Having two different timeservers will make things behave badly, and the 
> upstream documentation forbids this.
> 

I think if virtualbox-guest-utils has problems with ntp, virtualbox-
guest-utils should fix this problem instead of uninstalling a standard
program used for years.

On the other hand I find it impossible that neither a reference to the
deletion of ntp in the changelog is present nor in the NEWS.

I have absolutely nothing against that virtualbox-guest-utils use its
own time synchronization, but system-wide only if no other time server
runs.

It is also incomprehensible for users to install virtualbox-guest-utils 
as a time server.

Therefore, I reopen the bug again.

> 
> see #873263 if you want more background on the issue
> 
> I think I won't remove that conflict for now, unless you have some good 
> explanation for me :)
> 
> G.
> 

CU
Jörg


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Bug#878074: Update virtualbox-guest-* will remove a well running ntp

[Jörg Frings-Fürst]

Package: virtualbox-guest-utils
Version: 5.1.28-dfsg-1
Severity: serious

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Hello,

on update I get :

[quote]
$ sudo apt-get install virtualbox-guest-dkms
Paketlisten werden gelesen... Fertig
Abhängigkeitsbaum wird aufgebaut.
Statusinformationen werden eingelesen Fertig
Die folgenden Pakete wurden automatisch installiert und werden nicht mehr
benötigt:
  gir1.2-nm-1.0 sntp
Verwenden Sie »sudo apt autoremove«, um sie zu entfernen.
The following additional packages will be installed:
  virtualbox-guest-utils virtualbox-guest-x11
Die folgenden Pakete werden ENTFERNT:
  ntp
Die folgenden Pakete werden aktualisiert (Upgrade):
  virtualbox-guest-dkms virtualbox-guest-utils virtualbox-guest-x11
3 aktualisiert, 0 neu installiert, 1 zu entfernen und 193 nicht aktualisiert.
Es müssen noch 0 B von 2.082 kB an Archiven heruntergeladen werden.
Nach dieser Operation werden 1.980 kB Plattenplatz freigegeben.
Möchten Sie fortfahren? [J/n] n
Abbruch.
[/quote]

The same with virtualbox-guest-x11 and virtualbox-guest-utils.

I have set the severity to serious, because with the deletion of an important
system tool the stability is significantly disturbed.


CU
Jörg



- -- System Information:
Debian Release: buster/sid
  APT prefers testing
  APT policy: (500, 'testing'), (300, 'unstable'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)
Foreign Architectures: i386

Kernel: Linux 4.12.0-2-amd64 (SMP w/6 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=de_DE.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=de_DE.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8), 
LANGUAGE=de_DE.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash
Init: systemd (via /run/systemd/system)

Versions of packages virtualbox-guest-utils depends on:
ii  adduser   3.116
ii  libc6 2.24-17
ii  libpam0g  1.1.8-3.6
ii  pciutils  1:3.5.2-1

Versions of packages virtualbox-guest-utils recommends:
ii  virtualbox-guest-dkms [virtualbox-guest-modules]  5.1.28-dfsg-1

Versions of packages virtualbox-guest-utils suggests:
ii  virtualbox-guest-x11  5.1.28-dfsg-1

- -- no debconf information

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