Hi Charles,
On 22 November 2015 at 03:15, Charles Plessy wrote:
> Regarding security and GPG signing, obviously it is essential that a "Debian"
> image is configured to only retreive packages from apt sources that are signed
> by Debian. But during the build process, while
On 11/26/2015 01:46 AM, Charles Plessy wrote:
> Apart from cloud-init, what other packages may need to be updated in Stable ?
>From my side of things (which is OpenStack), that's the only one which
needs an update.
Martin, what would you need for Azure support in Stable, beside cloud-init?
On 11/25/2015 04:06 PM, Charles Plessy wrote:
> Le Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 04:01:50PM +0100, Thomas Goirand a écrit :
>>
>> Unfortunately, "driven by technological necessity", or the size of
>> changes, isn't a point of argumentation (see my previous mail). All of
>> the packages must be taken from
❦ 26 novembre 2015 08:25 -0500, Brian Gupta :
>> On the Stable release, we have updates for the Kernel to add new
>> drivers, previously not supported. I really consider that the support of
>> new clouds (for example through an update of cloud-init) is exactly the
>>
On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 10:17 AM, Martin Zobel-Helas
wrote:
> On Tue Nov 24, 2015 at 20:40:24 -0500, Brian Gupta wrote:
>> So after discussion with the CD team, we're on the same page, and have
>> a proposal to allow you to move forward immediately with
Le Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 04:12:24PM +0100, Martin Zobel-Helas a écrit :
>
> what about accepting those packages into debian-updates?
Hi Martin,
if you mean "stable-updates" (ex-"volatile"), then it is an interesting idea to
explore. But since I read "All packages from stable-updates will be
Le Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 04:01:50PM +0100, Thomas Goirand a écrit :
>
> Unfortunately, "driven by technological necessity", or the size of
> changes, isn't a point of argumentation (see my previous mail). All of
> the packages must be taken from stable, unchanged, and if some are taken
> from
Hi,
On Thu Nov 26, 2015 at 00:06:31 +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:
> Le Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 04:01:50PM +0100, Thomas Goirand a écrit :
> >
> > Unfortunately, "driven by technological necessity", or the size of
> > changes, isn't a point of argumentation (see my previous mail). All of
> > the
Hi Brian,
On Tue Nov 24, 2015 at 20:40:24 -0500, Brian Gupta wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 2:34 PM, Martin Zobel-Helas
> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > as announced during DebConf15 and in <55d03d49.1030...@debian.org> and
> >
On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 2:34 PM, Martin Zobel-Helas
wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> as announced during DebConf15 and in <55d03d49.1030...@debian.org> and
>
Le Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 08:40:24PM -0500, Brian Gupta a écrit :
>
> So after discussion with the CD team, we're on the same page, and have
> a proposal to allow you to move forward immediately with publishing
> these images, with full use of all needed Debian Trademarks.
>
> Proposal:
>
On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 9:09 PM, Charles Plessy wrote:
> Le Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 08:40:24PM -0500, Brian Gupta a écrit :
>>
>> So after discussion with the CD team, we're on the same page, and have
>> a proposal to allow you to move forward immediately with publishing
>> these
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 2:04 AM Charles Plessy wrote:
> >
> > Altogether, for reproducibility, would the following be acceptable ?
> > (Wording, of course, can be improved)
> >
> > * When building an image twice in a row with the same package source
> >and parameters:
>
On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 03:17:22PM +, Marcin Kulisz wrote:
> On 2015-11-15 18:50:45, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> > I believe a more sensible requirement would be that "it is theoretically
> > possible to build a filesystem image on a cloud provider's
> > infrastructure that is bit-for-bit the
On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 8:44 AM, Anders Ingemann wrote:
>
>> Out of interest: If you run the same build ten times, will you always
> have the same binary output?
>
> You got last modified timestamps on files etc., so no :-)
I seem to remember the reproducible build team
Dear all,
with my TM hat on: It seems to me that there is rough consensus on
-cloud and -cd that the plans outlined above would merrit a name like
"Debian for Azure" or "Debian Cloud for Azure" or similar. Are there
any strong objections to this?
It is also clear that there is more work to be
On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 4:14 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> I'm sure it's not. Until the reproducible build team has a deep look
> into debootstrap (and I know they are planning to do so at some
> point...), it wont be possible.
Stalling the "reproducible image" thing until then
On 11/23/2015 01:28 AM, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> [ Apologies for delayed responses - massively busy in the last week
> ... ]
No worries, and no hurry. :)
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 10:04:19PM +0100, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>> On 11/12/2015 07:58 PM, Bastian Blank wrote:
>>
>>> Also none of the
Le Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 08:50:32PM +0100, Richard Hartmann a écrit :
>
> with my TM hat on: It seems to me that there is rough consensus on
> -cloud and -cd that the plans outlined above would merrit a name like
> "Debian for Azure" or "Debian Cloud for Azure" or similar. Are there
> any strong
Hi Charles
On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 06:34:27AM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:
> I fully agree, and I think we should even agree with let it be called just
> "Debian Jessie", as this is what we have done with the AWS image that contains
> Jessie plus a cloud-init backport plus a few files generated
Le Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 07:59:49AM +0100, Bastian Blank a écrit :
>
> The presentation in the Azure market place looks something like this:
> https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/marketplace/partners/canonical/ubuntuserver1404lts/
Hi Bastian,
thanks for the link. By the way, interstingly, I found
On 11/21/2015 04:17 PM, Marcin Kulisz wrote:
> On 2015-11-15 18:50:45, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 09:04:29PM +0100, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>>> On 11/12/2015 04:52 PM, kuLa wrote:
On 2015-11-12 15:58:03, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> As per the discussions during debconf,
❦ 23 novembre 2015 00:28 GMT, Steve McIntyre :
> That's a very good question, and one I'll admit that I'd not paid much
> attention to. Unless the images are set up to auto-update at boot (is
> that a sensible thing? Do any of the published images do this?)
Yes, it is part of
Hi Marcin and everybody,
about reproducibility:
Le Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 03:17:22PM +, Marcin Kulisz a écrit :
>
> I'm not sure if it's possible to upload image and to build one to make them
> bit
> for bit identical for reasons like ex. timestamps on files, etc.. I think that
> at least
[ Apologies for delayed responses - massively busy in the last week
... ]
On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 10:04:19PM +0100, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>On 11/12/2015 07:58 PM, Bastian Blank wrote:
>
>> Also none of the built stuff is updated regulary with security
>> fixes.
>
>If you think we should do more
On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 05:33:45PM +0100, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>On 11/11/2015 05:01 PM, Marcin Kulisz wrote:
>>
>> There is a way of triggering build of this images on AWS hosts from Debian
>> infrastructure with bootstrap-vz though.
>>
>> I know it's not "ideal" but right now I don't know
On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 05:37:54PM +, Marcin Kulisz wrote:
>On 2015-11-12 21:04:46, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>
>> What I'm asking for, is only that a cat is called a cat. So if you are
>> creating a cloud images with stable + backports, state it clearly, don't
>> pretend it is "pure" stable,
On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 09:35:16AM +0100, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
>On Thu, 12 Nov 2015, Bastian Blank wrote:
>> On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 02:53:36PM +, Steve McIntyre wrote:
>> > My only concern is that I'd be happier if the builds were created and
>> > hosted on Debian project machines, like our
On 2015-11-15 18:50:45, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 09:04:29PM +0100, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> > On 11/12/2015 04:52 PM, kuLa wrote:
> > > On 2015-11-12 15:58:03, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> > >> As per the discussions during debconf, to be called "official", the
> > >> images have
On 2015-11-15 23:28:57, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> If you can't upload a custom images, then it makes the cloud pretty much
> useless.
Not if there is already Debian available :-)
--
|_|0|_| |
|_|_|0| "Heghlu'Meh QaQ jajVam" |
|0|0|0|
On 2015-11-16 15:59:19, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> > Regardless, I still think you should state the requirement in terms of
> > the result, not in terms of how it's built. The "import image" thing was
> > just an (arguably bad) example; but I can imagine other cases where
> > things "have" to be
> > On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 11:57 AM Narcis Garcia
> >>
> >> "Official mirrors" shouldn't contain differences to debian.org
> >> repositories. Otherwise they should be named "Debian based" too.
> On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 7:04 PM, Anders Ingemann wrote:
ot the TM team's role to privately set technical
> policy, which is why we advocated to have this discussion in public
> with the appropriate technical teams.
>
>> First of all, i want to stress out, that i didn't request the trademark for
>> the
>> name "Official Debi
interest in building/blessing cloud
> images,
> > I'm hoping that this discussion promotes the development of a more
> fleshed out
> > set of standards and policies related to Debian cloud images. This will
> > hopefully make everyone's lives easier in the future.
> >
&
policy, which is why we advocated to have this discussion in public
with the appropriate technical teams.
> First of all, i want to stress out, that i didn't request the trademark for
> the
> name "Official Debian images on Microsoft Azure cloud". I am happy to help
> here
he length of
> this email, and for any inevitable omissions.)
I see some conflict of interest here, but i will answer the technical
questions.
First of all, i want to stress out, that i didn't request the trademark for the
name "Official Debian images on Microsoft Azure cloud". I am happ
On 2015-11-12 21:04:46, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> I don't think it's helpful for the project to let $cloud-provider to do
> as his pleased with our Debian trademark, and call whatever as "Debian
> stable", just because it makes sense for the marketing department. We
> have long established rules, I
On 11/15/2015 11:41 PM, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 15, 2015 at 11:28:57PM +0100, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>> On 11/15/2015 06:50 PM, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
>>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 09:04:29PM +0100, Thomas Goirand wrote:
On 11/12/2015 04:52 PM, kuLa wrote:
> On 2015-11-12
On 11/15/2015 06:50 PM, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 09:04:29PM +0100, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>> On 11/12/2015 04:52 PM, kuLa wrote:
>>> On 2015-11-12 15:58:03, Thomas Goirand wrote:
As per the discussions during debconf, to be called "official", the
images have to be
On Sun, Nov 15, 2015 at 11:28:57PM +0100, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> On 11/15/2015 06:50 PM, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 09:04:29PM +0100, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> >> On 11/12/2015 04:52 PM, kuLa wrote:
> >>> On 2015-11-12 15:58:03, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> As per the
Building images on external infrastructure has a solution to trust the
process:
First build the builder OS environment in own infrastructure, and then
migrate it to external infrastructure to do the desired jobs.
__
I'm using this express-made address because personal addresses aren't
On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 09:04:29PM +0100, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> On 11/12/2015 04:52 PM, kuLa wrote:
> > On 2015-11-12 15:58:03, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> >> As per the discussions during debconf, to be called "official", the
> >> images have to be built:
> >> - directly from an unmodified stable
>
On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 7:29 AM Richard Hartmann <
richih.mailingl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 8:14 PM, Bastian Blank wrote:
>
> > While SHA2 is relatively cheep, it still takes a lot of time on the
> > given image sizes of 30GiB, somewhat between four and
Hi,
On Thu, 12 Nov 2015, Bastian Blank wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 02:53:36PM +, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> > My only concern is that I'd be happier if the builds were created and
> > hosted on Debian project machines, like our existing official
> > builds. I've been discussing that with
On Nov 12, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> >> changes, isn't a point of argumentation (see my previous mail). All of
> >> the packages must be taken from stable, unchanged, and if some are taken
> >> from backports, this must be explicit, and the image shouldn't be called
> >> "stable
On 11/13/2015 12:16 PM, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> On Nov 12, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>
changes, isn't a point of argumentation (see my previous mail). All of
the packages must be taken from stable, unchanged, and if some are taken
from backports, this must be explicit,
On 11/12/2015 04:06 PM, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> On Nov 12, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>
>> changes, isn't a point of argumentation (see my previous mail). All of
>> the packages must be taken from stable, unchanged, and if some are taken
>> from backports, this must be explicit, and
Hi Steve
On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 02:53:36PM +, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> My only concern is that I'd be happier if the builds were created and
> hosted on Debian project machines, like our existing official
> builds. I've been discussing that with other people for other types of
> build. How
On 11/12/2015 04:52 PM, kuLa wrote:
> On 2015-11-12 15:58:03, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>> As per the discussions during debconf, to be called "official", the
>> images have to be built:
>> - directly from an unmodified stable
>> - with reproducibility on any Debian computer (ie: no need for any
>>
On 11/12/2015 12:53 PM, Narcis Garcia wrote:
> - default ssh user: +Leave at cloud provider criteria (can have own good
> security policy).
I'd very much prefer if the cloud-init default config (ie: debian as the
username) wasn't tempered with. I've seen cloud providers that prefer to
use
On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 04:01:50PM +0100, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> Unfortunately, "driven by technological necessity", or the size of
> changes, isn't a point of argumentation (see my previous mail). All of
> the packages must be taken from stable, unchanged, and if some are taken
> from backports,
On 11/12/2015 07:58 PM, Bastian Blank wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 03:58:03PM +0100, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>> As per the discussions during debconf, to be called "official",
>
> And the rules for "unofficial" would be? At least I can't remember
> anything about wanting to use the label
- Should we require that the images only point to Debian repos, and/or
official mirrors: +1
- Require public review of images/plans: +Same as official site/mirrors,
tu use "Debian" name.
- to have a tasksel for "cloud server": +1
- default ssh user: +Leave at cloud provider criteria (can have
On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 8:14 PM, Bastian Blank wrote:
> While SHA2 is relatively cheep, it still takes a lot of time on the
> given image sizes of 30GiB, somewhat between four and six minutes.
This does not have to be part of the _build_ process, it can be part
of the
On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> As per the discussions during debconf, to be called "official", the
> images have to be built:
Just to get everyone up to date, the rough consensus during that BoF
was to have four tiers:
1) Official Debian
Debian CD
On 11 November 2015 at 14:11, Anders Ingemann wrote:
> You got me thinking :-)
> It *should* actually be possible to bootstrap EBS backed instances locally:
> http://docs.aws.amazon.com/AWSEC2/latest/UserGuide/importing-your-volumes-into-amazon-ebs.html
> You can upload EBS
On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 03:58:03PM +0100, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> As per the discussions during debconf, to be called "official",
And the rules for "unofficial" would be? At least I can't remember
anything about wanting to use the label "official", only the name and
logo.
> As per the
Hi Richard
On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 12:01:01PM +0100, Richard Hartmann wrote:
> I would like to see an official list of packages and checksums
> (ideally both SHA-512 and SHA 3-512 as compute & storage are cheap and
> using two families increases resilience significantly)
While SHA2 is relatively
On 11/10/2015 10:45 PM, Richard Hartmann wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> with my trademark hat on: We asked waldi & zobel to bounce this
> request off of debian-cloud and debian-cd prior to granting the right
> to use the Debian name. We are looking for rough consensus as defined
> in RFC7282 that these
On 11/10/2015 08:34 PM, Martin Zobel-Helas wrote:
> Microsoft would like to use the Debian name and logo to promote those
> Debian images in the Azure Marketplace.[6] credativ will maintain and
> enhance those Debian images and Debian developers at credativ will
> accompany this process.
FYI,
On 11/11/2015 12:01 PM, Richard Hartmann wrote:
> Without any official hat, I agree with Md that the changes to the
> installed packages seem reasonable, as sparse as possible, and driven
> by technological necessity.
Unfortunately, "driven by technological necessity", or the size of
changes,
On Nov 12, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> changes, isn't a point of argumentation (see my previous mail). All of
> the packages must be taken from stable, unchanged, and if some are taken
> from backports, this must be explicit, and the image shouldn't be called
> "stable Debian".
On 2015-11-12 15:58:03, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> As per the discussions during debconf, to be called "official", the
> images have to be built:
> - directly from an unmodified stable
> - with reproducibility on any Debian computer (ie: no need for any
> external infrastructure access)
I don't
On 11/11/2015 05:01 PM, Marcin Kulisz wrote:
> n 2015-11-11 14:53:36, Steve McIntyre wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>> My only concern is that I'd be happier if the builds were created and
>> hosted on Debian project machines, like our existing official
>> buildsi.
>
> This would be ideal.
>
>> I've been
Without any official hat, I agree with Md that the changes to the
installed packages seem reasonable, as sparse as possible, and driven
by technological necessity.
I would like to see an official list of packages and checksums
(ideally both SHA-512 and SHA 3-512 as compute & storage are cheap and
Those possible official Debian images can be served/published from
*.debian.org ?
El 11/11/15 a les 01:33, Marco d'Itri ha escrit:
> On Nov 10, Richard Hartmann wrote:
>
>> with my trademark hat on: We asked waldi & zobel to bounce this
>> request off of
On 2015-11-11 12:53:26, Martin Zobel-Helas wrote:
Hello,
> I would suggest we open a seperate thread on the debian-cloud mailing
> list for defining a list of official requirements for all vendors. As
> long as we define the first version of that list i would suggest though
> that those are nice
On 2015-11-11 16:11:14, Anders Ingemann wrote:
> > From what I know it's not possible to build and then upload to Marketplace
> AWS
> images.
>
> You got me thinking :-)
> It *should* actually be possible to bootstrap EBS backed instances locally:
>
n 2015-11-11 14:53:36, Steve McIntyre wrote:
Hi,
> My only concern is that I'd be happier if the builds were created and
> hosted on Debian project machines, like our existing official
> buildsi.
This would be ideal.
> I've been discussing that with other people for other types of
> build. How
On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 12:53 PM, Martin Zobel-Helas
wrote:
> a "find / -exec sha3sum {} \; > logfile.log" should be easily doable.
> I would suggest we open a seperate thread on the debian-cloud mailing
> list for defining a list of official requirements for
On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 07:34:04PM +, Martin Zobel-Helas wrote:
>Hi all,
Hey Martin,
>as announced during DebConf15 and in <55d03d49.1030...@debian.org> and
On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 5:02 PM Marcin Kulisz wrote:
> n 2015-11-11 14:53:36, Steve McIntyre wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> > My only concern is that I'd be happier if the builds were created and
> > hosted on Debian project machines, like our existing official
> > buildsi.
>
> This would
Hi,
On Wed Nov 11, 2015 at 12:01:01 +0100, Richard Hartmann wrote:
> Without any official hat, I agree with Md that the changes to the
> installed packages seem reasonable, as sparse as possible, and driven
> by technological necessity.
>
> I would like to see an official list of packages and
On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 07:34:04PM +, Martin Zobel-Helas wrote:
>>Hi all,
>
> Hey Martin,
>
>>as announced during DebConf15 and in <55d03d49.1030...@debian.org> and
Dear all,
with my trademark hat on: We asked waldi & zobel to bounce this
request off of debian-cloud and debian-cd prior to granting the right
to use the Debian name. We are looking for rough consensus as defined
in RFC7282 that these images are close enough to Debian proper and are
a good faith
Hi all,
as announced during DebConf15 and in <55d03d49.1030...@debian.org> and
On Nov 10, Richard Hartmann wrote:
> with my trademark hat on: We asked waldi & zobel to bounce this
> request off of debian-cloud and debian-cd prior to granting the right
> to use the Debian name. We are looking for rough consensus as defined
> in RFC7282 that
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