On Thursday 10 April 2014 18:25:43 Ian Jackson wrote:
> Sune Vuorela writes ("Re: Bug#741573: Two menu systems"):
> > if it takes 5 minutes to write a menu file and 5 minutes to switch to one
> > of those 'old style' window managers and test that it shows up as it
> > should, it is 3000 minutes. Or
On Friday 11 April 2014 12:43:48 Stuart Prescott wrote:
> Ian Jackson wrote:
> > I think you are perfectly entitled to let the people who care about
> > the Debian menu take care of that testing.
>
> As others have pointed out, that's a level a lot lower in everyone's
> current understanding of wh
Ian Jackson wrote:
> I think you are perfectly entitled to let the people who care about
> the Debian menu take care of that testing.
As others have pointed out, that's a level a lot lower in everyone's
current understanding of what "should" means in the context of policy. This
may not be what w
On Wed, Apr 09, 2014 at 01:27:46PM -0400, Sam Hartman wrote:
> Thanks for bringing this issue back to the question that was brought to
> the TC.
> The discussion so far on this bug has focused on discussing what the
> right menu policy is for Debian.
> That, however was not the question that wa
Steve Langasek writes:
> - What *I* want is for the TC to take a principled stand on the point that
>the policy manual exists to describe distribution-wide integration
>policies, instead of taking a "there's more than one way to do it" easy
>way out.
This is what I'd prefer too. I
Hi Ian,
On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 04:15:18PM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Of course the participants in the discussion were approaching the
> discussion on the basis that they are arguing about what the assumed
> single menu system should be like. But it seems to me that we can
> give everyone what
On Thursday 10 April 2014 09:38:28 Bdale Garbee wrote:
> Ian Jackson writes:
> > I did find three which are arguably recalcitrant maintainers:
> > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=407750
> > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=609807
> > https://bugs.debian.org
Ian Jackson writes:
> Russ Allbery writes ("Bug#741573: Two menu systems"):
>> I do think that "should" in Policy is stronger than that, and I don't
>> think just weakening "should" for all of Policy is the right solution
>> to this bug. I also don't know if Bill would be happy with a weaker
>>
On Thursday 10 April 2014 14:06:11 Ian Jackson wrote:
> Has anyone described any actual difficulties with supporting the
> traditional menu ?
I am in the uploaders field of packages that probably requires 300 menu files
to
be available and of one consumer of "menus".
if it takes 5 minutes to wr
Sune Vuorela writes ("Re: Bug#741573: Two menu systems"):
> if it takes 5 minutes to write a menu file and 5 minutes to switch to one of
> those 'old style' window managers and test that it shows up as it should, it
> is 3000 minutes. Or 1 hour per week in a year.
I don't think you need to test
Ian Jackson writes:
> I did find three which are arguably recalcitrant maintainers:
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=407750
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=609807
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=738027
> But this is a gratifyingly l
Russ Allbery writes ("Bug#741573: Two menu systems"):
> Ian Jackson writes:
> > IMO if those patches aren't unreasonable then maintainers should accept
> > them, even if they're slightly less automatic than would be ideal.
>
> Sure. I don't think anyone anywhere in this discussion was advocating
Ian Jackson writes:
> I think you've misunderstood me. I felt Ansgar and I were discussing in
> the abstract what would be the most optimal situation. Certainly I'm
> not saying that policy should mandate the use of anything that doesn't
> currently exist.
> I think that whether the general ma
Russ Allbery writes ("Bug#741573: Two menu systems"):
> Ian Jackson writes:
> > Ansgar Burchardt writes ("Bug#741573: Two menu systems"):
> >> [1] This might include maintainers having to convert icons at package
> >> build time and so on.
> > I think this is something quite trivial that can b
Russ Allbery writes ("Bug#741573: Two menu systems"):
> That's not "should" in the Policy sense. "Should" in the Policy sense
> does, in fact, mean that you have to do work to support it, although the
> level of pressure is only mild rather than at the level of rejecting the
> package entirely.
A
Russ Allbery writes ("Bug#741573: Two menu systems"):
> Charles Plessy writes:
> > The underlying question is: who should spend the time writing these
> > files and keeping them up to date ?
...
> > In the case of missing manual pages, the policy (§ 12.1) does not
> > require the package maintaine
Ian Jackson writes:
> Ansgar Burchardt writes ("Bug#741573: Two menu systems"):
>> [1] This might include maintainers having to convert icons at package
>> build time and so on.
> I think this is something quite trivial that can be centralised and
> automated (dh_...). Moving work from inst
Charles Plessy writes:
> The underlying question is: who should spend the time writing these
> files and keeping them up to date ?
> In the case of missing manual pages, the policy (§ 12.1) does not
> require the package maintainer to write one.
Hm. I have never read that section of Policy tha
Ian Jackson writes:
> If you don't like the trad menu, you don't have to use it. Nor do you
> have to do any significant amount of work to support it. All that is
> being asked is that you take other people's patches to support it.
That's not "should" in the Policy sense. "Should" in the Poli
Ansgar Burchardt writes ("Bug#741573: Two menu systems"):
> [1] This might include maintainers having to convert icons at package
> build time and so on.
I think this is something quite trivial that can be centralised and
automated (dh_...). Moving work from install time on the user's
compute
Hi,
On 04/10/2014 13:48, Ian Jackson wrote:
> That comes directly from its goal
> of being easily consumable by a very wide range of window managers.
The number of consumers (window manager, menu applets, desktop
environments) is much smaller than the number of providers (in theory
every applicat
Josselin Mouette writes ("Bug#741573: Two menu systems"):
> Le mercredi 09 avril 2014 à 15:04 +0100, Ian Jackson a écrit :
> > Matthias Klumpp writes ("Bug#741573: Two menu systems"):
> > > Also think about HIDPI-screens in particular, where these small icons
> > > don't make sense at all (in fact
Charles Plessy writes ("Bug#741573: Two menu systems"):
> The underlying question is: who should spend the time writing these files and
> keeping them up to date ?
The answer is, whoever wants to. In the first instance the maintainer
may choose to do so; if they don't, then it falls to those
cont
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