Re: CTTE requesting questions for DebConf20 BoF

2020-07-27 Thread Charles Plessy
Le Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 01:37:10PM -0700, Sean Whitton a écrit :
> 
> **Proposal 3**: Modify the Constitution to allow the TC to do design
> work in the form of proposals. These proposals wouldn't override
> developers or tell individual maintainers what to do, but rather should
> guide the project towards a technical goal.

Hi Sean and everybody,

to some extent, the TC can already do some design work.  For instance,
in the past I wanted to describe the FreeDesktop menu entries in the
Policy, got in conflict with another Policy maintainer on that topic,
and the final result was the TC ruling about the Debian menu, which is
something I never asked for.

I think that your proposal is an excellent idea that would give a
clearar separation between design work and conflict resolution.

Have a nice day,

Charles

-- 
Charles Plessy  Akano, Uruma, Okinawa, Japan
Debian Med packaging team http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-med
Tooting from work,   https://mastodon.technology/@charles_plessy
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Re: CTTE requesting questions for DebConf20 BoF

2020-07-27 Thread Holger Levsen
Hi Sean and the rest of the tech-ctte!

1st, thanks for preparing this BoF!

In general I liked what I read, I just have a question or maybe two...

On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 01:37:10PM -0700, Sean Whitton wrote:
> **Proposal 2**: Explicitly delegate the mediation task for solving
> social conflict between developers, when no code-of-conduct violation is
> in place.  This could be to:
> 
> a. A new group of developers
> b. The Community Team
> c. The Technical Committee.

which of the three options does the tech-ctte (roughly) prefer?
 
> Allow design work
> -
> **Proposal 3**: Modify the Constitution to allow the TC to do design
> work in the form of proposals. These proposals wouldn't override
> developers or tell individual maintainers what to do, but rather should
> guide the project towards a technical goal.

I'm continued to be puzzled about this. Clearly you are all individuals,
why don't you do design work as individuals?


-- 
cheers,
Holger

---
   holger@(debian|reproducible-builds|layer-acht).org
   PGP fingerprint: B8BF 5413 7B09 D35C F026 FE9D 091A B856 069A AA1C


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Re: Dispute resolution in Debian

2020-07-27 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello Felix,

On Sun 26 Jul 2020 at 07:59PM -07, Felix Lechner wrote:

> I would model access to conflict resolution on the US courts. There
> should be two levels of jurisprudence: One is quick and easily like
> small claims, the other is for appeals. Both can issue rulings that
> bind everyone, including delegates and the DPL.
>
> Private side conversations should remain off-limits. They create an
> incurable attack surface that lowers credibility. Decision makers who
> expressed an opinion outside the official process must recuse
> themselves. To seek their opinion, please file a case.

Well, the TC is the closest thing we have to a court of last resort
indeed, but I think its members hope that it could be other things as
well -- most disputes in Debian do not require a court of last
resort-style response.

Do you think it shouldn't have those other roles, maybe?  That would
correspond to the last of our proposals, I think.

> As Sean wrote, many problems at Debian are social in nature, I would

The text it from the whole committee, I was just the messenger :)  (and
marga did most of the work)

> make the Community Team the first legal instance before a party can
> appeal to the Technical Committee. Cases at Community Team level
> should be heard before a single member unless someone requests a
> hearing en banc. That effectively makes the Technical Committee
> Debian's Supreme Court (which hears all cases). In some way, this
> resembles Sean's Proposal 2.
>
> Like any court, the Community Team and Technical Committee should be
> able provide independent solutions of their own design. Ideally, the
> judges at the lower level, i.e. the Community Team, would be elected.

I think we think of the community team as mostly about the CoC -- not
just strict violations but conformance with its spirit -- whereas the TC
is about disagreements which do not involve (or do not primarily
involve) CoC issues.  In which case, the relationship between the two
would not really fit the model you suggest.

-- 
Sean Whitton


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