Bug#975075: marked as done (tech-ctte: Should NetworkManager support elogind?)
Your message dated Wed, 17 Mar 2021 18:03:09 +0100 with message-id and subject line Closing as this has been resolved without the TC needing to intervene has caused the Debian Bug report #975075, regarding tech-ctte: Should NetworkManager support elogind? to be marked as done. This means that you claim that the problem has been dealt with. If this is not the case it is now your responsibility to reopen the Bug report if necessary, and/or fix the problem forthwith. (NB: If you are a system administrator and have no idea what this message is talking about, this may indicate a serious mail system misconfiguration somewhere. Please contact ow...@bugs.debian.org immediately.) -- 975075: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=975075 Debian Bug Tracking System Contact ow...@bugs.debian.org with problems --- Begin Message --- Package: tech-ctte Control: block 921012 by -1 Control: block 964139 by -1 X-Debbugs-CC: debian-init-divers...@chiark.greenend.org.uk Dear Technical Committee, This bug report relates specifically to bugs in the network-manager package (#921012, #964139) but has broader implications, particularly around what it means to "support the efforts of developers"[0] working on support for alternative init systems (I will talk about sysvinit here without loss of generality to other non-systemd init systems). In brief: #921012 is about changing network-manager to Depend upon "default-logind | logind" rather than libpam-systemd #964139 is about restoring the removed network-manager init script which was removed from the package. There is no suggestion that the init script was buggy Both changes are necessary for it to be possible to install network-manager on a sysvinit system; it is going to be hard to use Debian without network-manager. Both bugs have sat open for extended periods with no input from the maintainer; so I prepared an NMU and uploaded it to DELAYED/14 as well as making an MR on salsa[1]. The NMU was declined, on the basis that removing the init script was not a mistake; I'm not aware of any rationale being provided beyond that for refusing either patch. I'm afraid the effect of this is that the maintainers of this package are making it impossible for other developers to enable support of sysvinit. There are people[2] who will (and have) test compatibility changes, help with issues with sysvinit scripts, and so on, but those efforts are in effect being stonewalled. The effect of this, and equivalent behaviour in some other packages, is that it is going to be impossible to make a useful Bullseye for users who want to use sysvinit. I (and a couple of other interested parties) have approached the DPL about this matter on a number of occasions this year, and have tried to follow their advice where possible. I regret that it has proved necessary to involve the technical committee. I invite the technical committee to rule that: * The network-manager init script should be restored * Network-manager should Depend: on default-logind | logind rather than libpam-systemd * Similar init-compatibility changes should not be blocked by package maintainers unless they are defective on their own merits * These changes be made in time to be effective in Bullseye Regards, Matthew [0] From the wording of the winning option in the 2019 Init systems GR [1] https://salsa.debian.org/utopia-team/network-manager/-/merge_requests/7 [2] e.g the mailing list debian-init-divers...@chiark.greenend.org.uk of people who are more than happy to help with this sort of thing --- End Message --- --- Begin Message --- Hi, It's been a while since this bug was dealt with and I was tasked with closing it, I'm sorry that it took so long to write this reply. The technical committee declines to overrule the NetworkManager and udisks2 maintainer on this matter. Instead, by working together with the maintainer of the affected packages, we managed to achieve a compromise solution: the dependency on libpam-systemd was lowered to a recommends so that it's still possible to install the package without it, while a separate package was introduced to carry the removed init scripts. This compromise solution allows users of other init systems to still use network-manager and udisks2, without imposing additional work on the maintainer to support those other systems. As has been mentioned in the bug, this compromise was achieved through private discussions between the technical committee and the maintainer. We recognize that these kind of private discussions are not ideal and can lead to frustration on the side of those that just hear about the results of the discussions without being able to participate in them. On the other hand, we also recognize that some maintainers have been burned out by some particularly contentious issues, and would rather not discuss them publicly. In the general case, the Technical Committee urges users and maintainers to
Bug#975075: Closing as this has been resolved without the TC needing to intervene
Hi, It's been a while since this bug was dealt with and I was tasked with closing it, I'm sorry that it took so long to write this reply. The technical committee declines to overrule the NetworkManager and udisks2 maintainer on this matter. Instead, by working together with the maintainer of the affected packages, we managed to achieve a compromise solution: the dependency on libpam-systemd was lowered to a recommends so that it's still possible to install the package without it, while a separate package was introduced to carry the removed init scripts. This compromise solution allows users of other init systems to still use network-manager and udisks2, without imposing additional work on the maintainer to support those other systems. As has been mentioned in the bug, this compromise was achieved through private discussions between the technical committee and the maintainer. We recognize that these kind of private discussions are not ideal and can lead to frustration on the side of those that just hear about the results of the discussions without being able to participate in them. On the other hand, we also recognize that some maintainers have been burned out by some particularly contentious issues, and would rather not discuss them publicly. In the general case, the Technical Committee urges users and maintainers to communicate openly and try to find compromise solutions like this one. Thanks, Marga on behalf of the Technical Committee
Bug#985270: marked as done (Resignation + Call for votes for new Chair)
Your message dated Wed, 17 Mar 2021 17:53:52 +0100 with message-id <75c1fb4bb327a12d30b2e12db7f35...@debian.org> and subject line Re: Bug#985270: Resignation + Call for votes for new Chair has caused the Debian Bug report #985270, regarding Resignation + Call for votes for new Chair to be marked as done. This means that you claim that the problem has been dealt with. If this is not the case it is now your responsibility to reopen the Bug report if necessary, and/or fix the problem forthwith. (NB: If you are a system administrator and have no idea what this message is talking about, this may indicate a serious mail system misconfiguration somewhere. Please contact ow...@bugs.debian.org immediately.) -- 985270: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=985270 Debian Bug Tracking System Contact ow...@bugs.debian.org with problems --- Begin Message --- Package: tech-ctte [Resending as a bug rather than a mailing-list email. Sorry!] Dear TC members, As is traditional when committee members change, I am calling for the election of a new Chair of Debian Technical Committee by announcing my resignation as chair effective one week from now. In accordance with Section 6.1.7 of the Debian Constitution, the vote runs until all members have voted, or until my resignation takes effect. The ballot is the following: ===BEGIN=== The chair of the Debian Technical Committee will be: A : Margarita Manterola B : David Bremner C : Niko Tyni D : Gunnar Wolf E : Simon McVittie F : Sean Whitton G : Elana Hashman H : Christoph Berg ===END=== -- Regards, Marga signature.asc Description: PGP signature --- End Message --- --- Begin Message --- Congrats Sean, wishing you luck with what's to come :). Here's the output of the pocket-devotee run (already pushed to git as well). Starting results calculation at Wed Mar 17 16:49:22 2021 /--ABCDEFGH V: 61245337 marga V: 13232214 bremner V: 11121113 spwhitton V: 11121113 gwolf V: 41333245 ehashman V: 24543126 ntyni V: 1123 myon V: 3124 smcv Option A "Margarita Manterola" Option B "David Bremner" Option C "Niko Tyni" Option D "Gunnar Wolf" Option E "Simon McVittie" Option F "Sean Whitton" Option G "Elana Hashman" Option H "Christoph Berg" In the following table, tally[row x][col y] represents the votes that option x received over option y. Option A B C D E F G H === === === === === === === === Option A3 3 5 4 1 1 8 Option B 2 3 4 3 2 2 8 Option C 2 1 4 2 1 2 8 Option D 2 0 1 2 0 1 8 Option E 2 2 1 4 0 1 8 Option F 4 4 4 8 5 4 8 Option G 1 2 2 5 4 1 8 Option H 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Looking at row 2, column 1, B received 2 votes over A Looking at row 1, column 2, A received 3 votes over B. Option A defeats Option B by ( 3 -2) =1 votes. Option A defeats Option C by ( 3 -2) =1 votes. Option A defeats Option D by ( 5 -2) =3 votes. Option A defeats Option E by ( 4 -2) =2 votes. Option F defeats Option A by ( 4 -1) =3 votes. Option A defeats Option H by ( 8 -0) =8 votes. Option B defeats Option C by ( 3 -1) =2 votes. Option B defeats Option D by ( 4 -0) =4 votes. Option B defeats Option E by ( 3 -2) =1 votes. Option F defeats Option B by ( 4 -2) =2 votes. Option B defeats Option H by ( 8 -0) =8 votes. Option C defeats Option D by ( 4 -1) =3 votes. Option C defeats Option E by ( 2 -1) =1 votes. Option F defeats Option C by ( 4 -1) =3 votes. Option C defeats Option H by ( 8 -0) =8 votes. Option E defeats Option D by ( 4 -2) =2 votes. Option F defeats Option D by ( 8 -0) =8 votes. Option G defeats Option D by ( 5 -1) =4 votes. Option D defeats Option H by ( 8 -0) =8 votes. Option F defeats Option E by ( 5 -0) =5 votes. Option G defeats Option E by ( 4 -1) =3 votes. Option E defeats Option H by ( 8 -0) =8 votes. Option F defeats Option G by ( 4 -1) =3 votes. Option F defeats Option H by ( 8 -0) =8 votes. Option G defeats Option H by ( 8 -0) =8 votes. The Schwartz Set contains: Option F "Sean Whitton" -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= The winners are: Option F "Sean Whitton" -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -- Regards, Marga--- End Message ---
Bug#976462: debian bug 976462
Hello, On Wed 10 Mar 2021 at 04:54PM +01, Mark Wielaard wrote: > For reference, this is the dwz bug for [dwz] Support compressed debug > sections: https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=24725 > > It has low priority because it has a simple workaround: > you could use eu-elfcompress before/after the dwz run > > $ eu-elfcompress --type=none ./a.out > $ dwz ./a.out > $ eu-elfcompress --type=zlib ./a.out Thanks for the input. In any case in which the reason not to use compressed debug symbols is something to do with package builds, a workaround of this form could be used. Then, the only tool compatibility reasons not to use compressed debug symbols are (i) tools that users who have the symbols installed want to run; and (ii) complicated debhelper order-of-operation issues which make it difficult to use the above workaround. Given that the debhelper maintainer said that he doesn't mind whether or not compression is turned on, I think we can eliminate (ii). Looking back through the thread, the closest thing we have to (i) is two bugs in Valgrind. However, those bugs are both marked as resolved. So, I conclude that we still haven't seen concrete tooling problems which would give us good reasons to disable compression. -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Bug#985270: Resignation + Call for votes for new Chair
On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 at 10:30:59 +0100, Margarita Manterola wrote: > ===BEGIN=== > > The chair of the Debian Technical Committee will be: > > A : Margarita Manterola > B : David Bremner > C : Niko Tyni > D : Gunnar Wolf > E : Simon McVittie > F : Sean Whitton > G : Elana Hashman > H : Christoph Berg > > ===END=== I vote: F > A = B = C = D = G > E > H signature.asc Description: PGP signature
