Bug#1003653: Revision of removal of rename.ul from package util-linux

2022-04-15 Thread Russ Allbery
so we can err on the side of convenience to let proposers rewrite the options to whatever they want. If that makes previously acceptable options unacceptable, other TC members can always propose new options or reinstate versions of the previous options.) -- Russ Allbery (r...@debi

Bug#994388: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems

2022-03-25 Thread Russ Allbery
ed systems even if Debian itself will no longer support such systems, and I don't think it would be *too* challenging to do so. There's also just some super-minor stuff like tabs vs. spaces, formatting of function signatures, etc., that I'm happy to help clean up to smooth the path.) -- Russ Allbery (

Bug#994388: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems

2022-03-24 Thread Russ Allbery
re, to start discussing and analyzing. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Bug#994388: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems

2022-03-24 Thread Russ Allbery
ntation design that could get some consensus, and flush out the remaining problems. (To be clear, others have been doing more of that than I have, but I think it's a bit inaccurate to say that I've only been complaining and not trying to help arrive at a proper fix.) -- Russ Allbery (r.

Bug#994388: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems

2022-03-24 Thread Russ Allbery
Josh Triplett writes: > On Thu, 24 Mar 2022 10:35:10 -0700 Russ Allbery wrote: >> That said, I personally am disappointed that the folks who have been >> pushing merged-/usr forward are willing to leave dpkg in a known-buggy >> state without attempting to patch it to fix

Bug#994388: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems

2022-03-24 Thread Russ Allbery
x edge cases and maintain a high level of consistency and correctness. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Bug#1007717: Native source package format with non-native version

2022-03-17 Thread Russ Allbery
Sam Hartman writes: >>>>>> "Russ" == Russ Allbery writes: > Russ> Switching terminology to completely leave behind the terms > Russ> with ambiguous meanings isn't a bad idea, but if so we really > Russ> need a term that captures "

Bug#1007717: Native source package format with non-native version

2022-03-17 Thread Russ Allbery
till possible? If the relevant people required to implement a decision are willing to tackle it that way, I am certainly willing to participate from the Policy side. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Bug#994388: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems

2022-03-16 Thread Russ Allbery
official declaration from Debian as a project that their system configuration is unsupported, while simultaneously this is the default installation mode for new systems and something that we have elsewhere said is a correct system configuration. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)

Bug#1007717: Native source package format with non-native version

2022-03-16 Thread Russ Allbery
Felix Lechner writes: > On Tue, Mar 15, 2022 at 9:33 PM Russ Allbery wrote: >> We should define native and non-native packages in terms of version >> numbers, and allow both native and non-native packages to use >> single-tarball source package formats. > I co-mai

Bug#1007717: Native source package format with non-native version

2022-03-15 Thread Russ Allbery
(quilt) format that are unrelated to the native vs. non-native package distinction. I have no useful opinions to add on that topic. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Bug#1003653: Revision of removal of rename.ul from package util-linux

2022-01-25 Thread Russ Allbery
nt as the replacement string, and thus will probably do nothing. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Bug#1003653: Revision of removal of rename.ul from package util-linux

2022-01-24 Thread Russ Allbery
upports the syntax of both. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Bug#1003653: Revision of removal of rename.ul from package util-linux

2022-01-21 Thread Russ Allbery
the same basic tool. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Draft GR for resolution process changes

2021-11-07 Thread Russ Allbery
/debian-vote/2021/10/msg00019.html -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Bug#994275: Reverting breaking changes in debianutils

2021-10-06 Thread Russ Allbery
tility and is interested in handling bug reports and requests concerning it. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Bug#975075: tech-ctte: non-systemd dependencies in non-NM packages

2021-01-16 Thread Russ Allbery
project who are not at fault for any of the historical init system hostility. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Bug#975075: tech-ctte: Should maintainers be able to block init compatibility changes?

2020-12-28 Thread Russ Allbery
ts or a conversion utility to satisfy that dependency. That's where the "project supports the efforts of developers working on such technologies" part of the GR result comes in. Just to be extremely clear, the dependency structure for logind feels different to me and I don't have an opinion on that. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Bug#975075: tech-ctte: Should maintainers be able to block init compatibility changes?

2020-12-27 Thread Russ Allbery
dation. In those cases, these words describe decisions that are truly optional and at the maintainer's discretion. This was intended to reflect the result of the GR. The dependency structure for indicating a logind requirement is a more complicated question and I don't personally have any opinion ab

Bug#932795: Ethics of FTBFS bug reporting

2019-07-23 Thread Russ Allbery
on a lighter-weight machine than Firefox requires. And it's possible that multi-core may be a reasonable requirement for that "heavy package" tier. If we do go down that path, though, it would be nice to add a metadata field so that maintainers can flag their packages as being "h

Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee

2017-10-31 Thread Russ Allbery
Martin Steigerwald <mar...@lichtvoll.de> writes: > Russ Allbery - 28.10.17, 16:13: >> There wasn't *anything* "left out" of that discussion. > In my opinion this is a pretty bold statement. > If everyone has been heard, noticed, felt and valued, if everything has

Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee

2017-10-28 Thread Russ Allbery
appellate process, or conflict resolution mechanism known to humans fails at one or more of those principles much of the time. We should always try to do better. We should avoid expecting ourselves to be superhuman. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee

2017-10-28 Thread Russ Allbery
onal friendships. There wasn't *anything* "left out" of that discussion. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Bug#741573: #741573: Menu Policy and Consensus

2015-07-20 Thread Russ Allbery
noting that I have a somewhat different approach on how fast to commit changes. I'm a huge believer in lazy consensus and in the power of reverts, so I tend towards committing things and reverting them if needed, rather than waiting on the first commit. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org

Bug#741573: Investigation of the bug log

2015-06-23 Thread Russ Allbery
doesn't make me a particularly unbiased judge of consensus.) -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https

Resigning from the Technical Committee

2014-11-16 Thread Russ Allbery
it is, instead of focusing on the disagreements and arguments. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https

Re: please stop

2014-11-12 Thread Russ Allbery
actually been one of the least active members recently. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https

Re: please stop

2014-11-07 Thread Russ Allbery
this. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87h9ya68st@hope.eyrie.org

Bug#746578: Revised call for votes (was libpam-systemd to flip dependencies - proposal)

2014-11-05 Thread Russ Allbery
be conveyed to the Release Team, after the change is in unstable, by filing an unblock request in the usual way. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ pgpUNJ75KUCX6.pgp Description: PGP signature

Bug#746578: libpam-systemd to flip dependencies - proposal

2014-11-04 Thread Russ Allbery
to interfere with systemd with the current version. In other words, I think the existence of the package on the system should be a no-op if the system is booted with systemd. That makes this a minor bug, but not something that's too serious. Am I wrong about this? -- Russ Allbery (r

Bug#762194: automatic switching - two proposals

2014-11-02 Thread Russ Allbery
in git. The result is below. I intend to call for votes later today. This looks great to me, Ian. Thank you! -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble

Bug#762194: Call for Votes (re automatic switching)

2014-11-02 Thread Russ Allbery
General Resolution option, whatever that may be. === I vote: Y, FD -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ pgpw0JZW3RrLP.pgp Description: PGP signature

Bug#762194: automatic switching - two proposals

2014-11-01 Thread Russ Allbery
this to option A. (In other words, omitting the statement of skepticism in favor of the more neutral statement that we've been asked to rule on the topic.) -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org

Bug#746578: libpam-systemd to flip dependencies - proposal

2014-11-01 Thread Russ Allbery
to explain what harmful effect this could have if they think it would have a harmful effect. My understanding is that all of the possible harmful effects have been fixed by various other changes. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email

Bug#765803: Status of prompting / notification on upgrade for init system switch?

2014-10-24 Thread Russ Allbery
I think you got bit by the Mail-Followup-To and your messages didn't make it to the CTTE bug. Tollef Fog Heen tfh...@err.no writes: ]] Russ Allbery Thanks, Tollef! Okay, so there does appear to be a conflict here. It sounds like your primary technical concern, not addressed by Martin's

Bug#765803: Status of prompting / notification on upgrade for init system switch?

2014-10-21 Thread Russ Allbery
of last February, and it's not clear to me yet whether the TC even has actionable jurisdiction (in that there may not even be a conflict). -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject

Bug#765803: Status of prompting / notification on upgrade for init system switch?

2014-10-21 Thread Russ Allbery
of #765803 all along. In which case I'm just confused, and what I'm arguing about isn't even what you were intending. :) -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe

Bug#765803: Status of prompting / notification on upgrade for init system switch?

2014-10-21 Thread Russ Allbery
the existing state. Did I get that wrong? -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org

Bug#765803: Status of prompting / notification on upgrade for init system switch?

2014-10-21 Thread Russ Allbery
Ian Jackson ijack...@chiark.greenend.org.uk writes: Russ Allbery writes: Thanks, Tollef! Okay, so there does appear to be a conflict here. It sounds like your primary technical concern, not addressed by Martin's mail, is that getting the dependencies right to install systemd on initial

Bug#765803: Status of prompting / notification on upgrade for init system switch?

2014-10-20 Thread Russ Allbery
on. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87ppdm8xit@hope.eyrie.org

Bug#765803: tech-ctte: Ask before changing init system when upgrading to jessie and Inform about init systems when installing jessie

2014-10-18 Thread Russ Allbery
decision-making processes, so for this to be a TC issue, I think we need some sign that process has failed in some way before 2 becomes actionable for us. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org

Bug#765803: Status of prompting / notification on upgrade for init system switch?

2014-10-18 Thread Russ Allbery
? I would be particularly interested in your take on the analysis that Steve Langasek posted to the debian-devel thread on why listing systemd-shim as the first alternative dependency for libpam-systemd makes sense and should not cause any negative effects for systemd users. Thanks! -- Russ

Bug#746578: Reasons to keep systemd-sysv as the first alternative

2014-09-18 Thread Russ Allbery
deliberate and obvious method than pulling systemd-sysv in via the dependency tree of some random package. The partial upgrade UX for that is really bad, IMO. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ

Notice of affiliation change of Technical Committee member

2014-08-24 Thread Russ Allbery
-- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87siklefqy@hope.eyrie.org

Bug#681419: Alternative dependencies on non-free packages in main: Call for Votes

2014-08-02 Thread Russ Allbery
in package dependencies for main FD I vote A, B, FD. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ pgpbRnqK6lXOR.pgp Description: PGP signature

Bug#741573: Two menu systems

2014-07-01 Thread Russ Allbery
and primarily useful for generating a template that requires subsequent work? https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=741573#45 -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject

Bug#741573: Two menu systems

2014-06-26 Thread Russ Allbery
inherently support the XDG menu system. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87lhsjczm1

Bug#717076: libjpeg draft resolution

2014-06-26 Thread Russ Allbery
. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ pgpp3UE_HMxGN.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: Using Org-Mode to track open todo items for the CTTE

2014-05-30 Thread Russ Allbery
Don Armstrong d...@debian.org writes: Does anyone else on the CTTE use org mode?[1] I do, although I read the documentation in a spike to get far enough to do the one thing I wanted to do, and haven't really expanded my usage beyond that. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http

Bug#636783: TC casting vote

2014-05-23 Thread Russ Allbery
numeric ties. It's used to select a winning option from the Schwartz set. Given how Condorcet works, I don't believe there is a way to ensure the Schwartz set always has only one member by manipulating the number of voters. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org

Bug#741573: Two menu systems

2014-05-11 Thread Russ Allbery
to my categories above. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/877g5seyxz

Bug#746715: the foreseeable outcome of the TC vote on init systems

2014-05-06 Thread Russ Allbery
and that we should stick with it. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87tx92wp40

Bug#746715: the foreseeable outcome of the TC vote on init systems

2014-05-06 Thread Russ Allbery
intended to be well into it by now. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org

Bug#746715: the foreseeable outcome of the TC vote on init systems

2014-05-02 Thread Russ Allbery
changes? -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87fvkrj4o4@windlord.stanford.edu

Re: Scheduling the Next Debian CTTE Meeting

2014-04-25 Thread Russ Allbery
. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87wqedtip1@windlord.stanford.edu

Bug#741573: Two menu systems

2014-04-14 Thread Russ Allbery
Jonathan Nieder jrnie...@gmail.com writes: Russ Allbery wrote: So, I think the questions before the TC are: 1. Should programs that make sense in the context of a typical DE (I realize there's some fuzziness around this) all have desktop files? Ah, I completely misread this before

Bug#741573: Two menu systems

2014-04-11 Thread Russ Allbery
the other should statements in Policy. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org

Bug#741573: Two menu systems

2014-04-10 Thread Russ Allbery
package, or if you're just not interested in working on it, you can ignore it, but you do need to merge patches if someone else wants to work on it. That would probably be useful. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte

Bug#741573: Two menu systems

2014-04-10 Thread Russ Allbery
of Policy that way. I do think that is intended to say that the package maintainer should write one, and that's the most common interpretation that I've seen in debian-mentors as well. They're not *required*, no, but that's true of any should. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org

Bug#741573: Two menu systems

2014-04-10 Thread Russ Allbery
than the traditional menu. (Personally, I think man pages are more important than either, but man pages are also more work, and that's to some extent personal preference.) -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ

Bug#741573: Two menu systems

2014-04-10 Thread Russ Allbery
Ian Jackson ijack...@chiark.greenend.org.uk writes: Russ Allbery writes (Bug#741573: Two menu systems): I do think that should in Policy is stronger than that, and I don't think just weakening should for all of Policy is the right solution to this bug. I also don't know if Bill would

Bug#741573: Two menu systems

2014-04-10 Thread Russ Allbery
packages. But I also really *enjoy* that sort of exacting attention to detail, and while that's a nice quality for us to encourage, it's not clear to me that we want to make that the bar to entry. And that's how it's being perceived right now. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http

Bug#741573: On menu systems.

2014-03-25 Thread Russ Allbery
that their program appears in the menus, assume they're done, and move on, and the menu quality in other integrations like fvwm will keep declining. I believe this has been happening for the past couple of years, although that's based on a gut feeling and I've not tried to acquire actual data. -- Russ

Bug#717076: libjpeg draft resolution

2014-03-21 Thread Russ Allbery
packages that actually need a specific version to Build-Depend on that specific version, while moving most of the archive to a new version by moving the Provides and then scheduling binNMUs. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email

Re: Scheduling next Debian-CTTE IRC meeting date -d 'Thu Mar 20 17:00:00 UTC 2014'

2014-03-20 Thread Russ Allbery
. As no one has replied, our next meeting will be next week on the 20th at 17:00 UTC. Just a reminder that the next meeting will start in under 40 minutes. I unfortunately have a conflicting work meeting (that just got scheduled this week) and won't be able to make it. -- Russ Allbery (r

Bug#741573: On menu systems.

2014-03-13 Thread Russ Allbery
between Bill and myself, so I don't think it's appropriate for me to vote. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Bug#727708: Call for Votes on init system coupling

2014-03-02 Thread Russ Allbery
that this outcome doesn't arise. Not to try to write project rules to force other people who are less interested in the work or who may not agree with the acceptability of the outcome to do the work on our behalf. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle

Bug#727708: Call for Votes on init system coupling

2014-03-02 Thread Russ Allbery
that I'm missing, but it may be best to respond there instead to make it easier for those following the proposed GR discussion to see. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject

Bug#727708: Call for Votes on init system coupling

2014-03-02 Thread Russ Allbery
Thorsten Glaser t...@mirbsd.de writes: Russ Allbery dixit: But when providing project-wide guidance, we have an obligation to worry about the error conditions as well. If multiple logind implementations do *not* materialize, or if they do materialize but then people lose interest I

Bug#636783: TC constitutional issues

2014-02-27 Thread Russ Allbery
what ballot to vote on. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87ios0ug0u

Bug#727708: init system coupling draft CFV

2014-02-21 Thread Russ Allbery
to be identical to mine, so everything should be good. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http

Bug#727708: init system coupling etc.

2014-02-21 Thread Russ Allbery
accept this amendment. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/874n3swfez

Bug#727708: Call for Votes on init system coupling

2014-02-21 Thread Russ Allbery
at least now understand what it means and what I would need to do with it as Policy Editor. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ pgpDvzkuzXUe5.pgp Description: PGP signature

Bug#727708: init system coupling draft CFV

2014-02-20 Thread Russ Allbery
today), I'll send that to this bug and commit it to Git. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http

Bug#727708: init system coupling draft CFV

2014-02-20 Thread Russ Allbery
! -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/8761o9mxsb@windlord.stanford.edu

Bug#727708: init system coupling etc.

2014-02-20 Thread Russ Allbery
of issues and decisions, and I fully expect that will apply to init systems as well once we get through this rocky and controversial part. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject

Bug#727708: init system coupling draft CFV

2014-02-20 Thread Russ Allbery
at this time on sysvinit support beyond the jessie release. There are too many variables at this point to know what the correct course of action will be. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ

Bug#727708: init system coupling etc.

2014-02-19 Thread Russ Allbery
you to have to do that. I need to produce an edited draft. I had company all weekend, social activity last night, and work is on fire, so time and attention has been a bit short. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte

Bug#727708: init system coupling etc.

2014-02-19 Thread Russ Allbery
Andreas Barth a...@ayous.org writes: * Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) [140214 04:36]: That's a much stronger statement than we've made about support for the non-Linux ports in the past, where they're treated at most like another release architecture, which means that packages that have never

Bug#727708: init system coupling etc.

2014-02-19 Thread Russ Allbery
from a security perspective to ship the version before that change, and no one has done the work to reintroduce sysvinit support. which is both rather a mouthful and only one of a variety of related possible cases. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle

Bug#727708: init system coupling etc.

2014-02-15 Thread Russ Allbery
Svante Signell svante.sign...@gmail.com writes: * Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) [140212 19:00]: Packages should normally support the default Linux init system. There I would drop the word Linux here - Packages should support our default init systems. If you do that then you have

Bug#727708: init system coupling etc.

2014-02-14 Thread Russ Allbery
take today to ensure that it is an argument we don't have to have. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive

Bug#727708: init system coupling etc.

2014-02-14 Thread Russ Allbery
contributors just damages our community without accomplishing anything constructive. I think you can make your point without referring to people with these sorts of disparaging terms. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte

Bug#727708: How much of L vs T is still relevant in light of the Ubuntu announcement?

2014-02-14 Thread Russ Allbery
like better. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87txc11r2a

Re: Bug#727708: init system coupling etc.

2014-02-13 Thread Russ Allbery
Andreas Barth a...@ayous.org writes: * Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) [140212 19:00]: Packages should normally support the default Linux init system. There I would drop the word Linux here - Packages should support our default init systems. That's a much stronger statement than we've

Bug#727708: init system coupling etc.

2014-02-13 Thread Russ Allbery
our advice since the current packaged logind doesn't require systemd as the init system, and I see no reason for it to be. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe

Bug#727708: init system coupling etc.

2014-02-13 Thread Russ Allbery
Uwe Storbeck u...@ibr.ch writes: On Feb 12, Russ Allbery wrote: Packages should normally support the default Linux init system. [..] Package maintainers are strongly encouraged to merge any contributions for support of init systems other than the Linux default, and to add

Bug#727708: init system coupling etc.

2014-02-12 Thread Russ Allbery
of action will be. I'm also happy to consider amendments to this text along the lines of Steve's proposed language elsewhere in the thread. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject

Bug#727708: init system coupling etc.

2014-02-12 Thread Russ Allbery
Adrian Bunk b...@stusta.de writes: On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 09:56:42AM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote: ... All packages should support smooth upgrades from wheezy to jessie, including upgrades done on a system booted with sysvinit. ... This sounds like a statement by the TC

Bug#727708: non-technical reasons

2014-02-12 Thread Russ Allbery
is how sysvinit works today. That would be one of the lesser inaccuracies of that essay. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas

Bug#727708: Init system coupling call for votes

2014-02-11 Thread Russ Allbery
to be pid 1, although degraded operation is tolerable. Maintainers are encouraged to accept technically sound patches to enable improved interoperation with various init systems. I vote FD (by which I really mean FD, not no). -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http

Re: Understanding the current state

2014-02-11 Thread Russ Allbery
the sysvinit support requirement (and I do think it's important to drop that at some point), but I'm probably just borrowing trouble. Maybe this is the core of a useful compromise. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ

Re: Bug#727708: Removal of Ian Jackson from TC

2014-02-10 Thread Russ Allbery
to the richness and diversity of our community. I think it's too easy to assume that someone who disagrees with you, perhaps very strongly, is somehow unethical. We need to be able to disagree while respecting each other's opinions. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle

Re: call for votes on default Linux init system for jessie

2014-02-09 Thread Russ Allbery
will affect, an entirely appropriate step to take to feel in more direct control of the nature of one's work within the project. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe

Bug#727708: Why open voting?

2014-02-09 Thread Russ Allbery
none of those have triggered, and it's fairly obvious among a small group of people if that happens. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact

Bug#727708: Removal of Ian Jackson from TC

2014-02-09 Thread Russ Allbery
and opinions. One of the points of a process is to force some distance and emotional separation. It does not help *anyone* to push for further confrontation right now. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ

Quorum on recent votes

2014-02-09 Thread Russ Allbery
while. After everyone has had a chance to breathe, we can easily go back and vote on any questions that still seem like they would be a good idea to decide. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ

Re: Quorum on recent votes

2014-02-09 Thread Russ Allbery
Kurt Roeckx k...@roeckx.be writes: On Sun, Feb 09, 2014 at 12:55:53PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote: I want to remind everyone on the committee that our quorum on votes is 2. I understand that there might be confusion on what this quorum means exactly, and what Steve's vote on those has

Bug#727708: Call for votes on init system resolution

2014-02-08 Thread Russ Allbery
-base and literally never test them. This is possible to do with a sufficiently simple syntax. I don't think it really works with current sysvinit scripts. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ

Bug#727708: Call for votes on init system resolution

2014-02-08 Thread Russ Allbery
Russ Allbery r...@debian.org writes: The Technical Committee offers no advice at this time on requirements or package dependencies on specific init systems after the jessie release. There are too many variables at this point to know what the Sorry, cut and paste error

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