Hello,
On Thu 18 May 2023 at 07:55PM +02, Ansgar wrote:
> Why not?
We will not move that fast.
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Hello,
On Thu 18 May 2023 at 07:21PM +02, Ansgar wrote:
> The full freeze is approaching and there has been no progress on this
> issue. Does the ctte think a decision before the release is still
> possible?
Not speaking for the whole ctte, but I don't think that is possible.
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Sea
d require a new, maintainer-overruling vote.
Our existing decisions do not apply, so far as I can tell.
I have written a separate message to the bug and to debian-dpkg with a
proposal to avoid having to have such a vote.
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celebrate, that dpkg has an upstream
existence independent of Debian.
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Hello,
On Tue 09 May 2023 at 01:26PM -07, Sean Whitton wrote:
> === BEGIN
>
> OPTION A:
>
> Under Constitution 6.1.5, the Technical Committee recommends that the
> maintainers of individual packages should not proactively move files
> from the root filesystem to correspo
essential packages should refrain from proactively moving files from the
root filesystem to corresponding locations under /usr in the data.tar.*
of packages.
OPTION N:
None of the above.
=== END
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ason the RT advice was
> worded as it was.
It's designed to stop as-yet-unknown problems happening, too.
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reas of Debian that we're most
proud of -- completely smooth upgrades between stable releases.
So, I think we should assume the people who are more worried are right,
for the time being. We lose little in doing so.
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Sean Whitton
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this topic this month.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
- Any other business
Minutes of previous meeting:
http://meetbot.debian.net/debian-ctte/2023/debian-ctte.2023-04-25-17.58.html
--
Sean Whitton
Hello,
On Wed 05 Apr 2023 at 04:26PM -07, Sean Whitton wrote:
> Dear committee members,
>
> We are scheduled to have our meeting on Tuesday, but I will be
> out-of-town. While it would be possible for me to join IRC, joining the
> Jitsi video call to discuss recruitment would be
Hello,
On Wed 05 Apr 2023 at 04:26PM -07, Sean Whitton wrote:
> Dear committee members,
>
> We are scheduled to have our meeting on Tuesday, but I will be
> out-of-town. While it would be possible for me to join IRC, joining the
> Jitsi video call to discuss recruitment would be
Tuesdays at the same time? And also regarding your availability on
Tuesday, because it might be that it's difficult for not just me.
https://dud-poll.inf.tu-dresden.de/TQ6tqaZR8g/
Thanks.
--
Sean Whitton
Hello,
On Mon 13 Mar 2023 at 02:35PM -07, Sean Whitton wrote:
> Dear committee members,
>
> Our monthly meeting is scheduled for Tuesday at 6pm UTC.
I'm sorry that I didn't appear today.
I arrived at the office to join the meeting and found that my laptop
charger had at some poin
Dear committee members,
Our monthly meeting is scheduled for Tuesday at 6pm UTC.
Here is our Agenda:
- Jitsi: recruitment
- Review of previous meeting AIs
Minutes of previous meeting:
http://meetbot.debian.net/debian-ctte/2023/debian-ctte.2023-01-10-18.03.html
--
Sean Whitton
-ctte/2023/debian-ctte.2023-01-10-18.03.html
--
Sean Whitton
members have voted,
or until my resignation takes effect.
I would like to continue in the role, if the committee agrees.
The ballot:
===BEGIN
A: Christoph Berg
B: Matthew Garrett
C: Helmut Grohne
D: Simon McVittie
E: Matthew Vernon
F: Sean Whitton
===END
--
Sean Whitton
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On Mon, Jan 09, 2023 at 05:34:07PM +, Matthew Garrett wrote:
>
> My apologies - I'm available tomorrow.
No problem. Is the meeting time generally okay with you, or do we need to do
a poll about that?
Given short notice let's stick to no Jitsi until February.
--
Sean Whitton
Hello,
On Fri, Jan 06, 2023 at 11:55:38AM -0700, Sean Whitton wrote:
>
> Our monthly meeting is scheduled for Tuesday at 6pm UTC.
>
> The DPL has not yet officially responded to our nomination of Matthew.
> Our meeting are public though -- Matthew, can you plan to join us,
&
AIs
- Bug#1026104: longstanding problem with dependencies of python3-numpy in
testing
Minutes of previous meeting:
http://meetbot.debian.net/debian-ctte/2022/debian-ctte.2022-11-08-17.58.html
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Sean Whitton
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decision applying to bookworm.
So I think we should leave this for the January meeting.
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Sean Whitton
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goodbye and
thanks, and to welcome Matthew, should the DPL agree with our vote.
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Sean Whitton
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Hello,
We are scheduled to meet next Tuesday, but I'm not available. We could
either have someone else chair, or push it forward one week -- there's
nothing urgent. Is anyone not available at 6pm UTC on the 20th?
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Sean Whitton
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Hello,
On Fri 25 Nov 2022 at 03:39PM -07, Sean Whitton wrote:
> ===BEGIN
> The Technical Committee recommends that Matthew Garrett be
> appointed by the Debian Project Leader to the Technical Committee.
>
> H: Recommend to Appoint Matthew Garrett
> F: Further Discussio
The Technical Committee recommends that Matthew Garrett be
appointed by the Debian Project Leader to the Technical Committee.
H: Recommend to Appoint Matthew Garrett
F: Further Discussion
===END
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Dear committee members,
Our monthly meeting is scheduled for Tuesday at 6pm UTC. Agenda:
- Jitsi: recruitment
- Review of previous meeting AIs
Minutes of previous meeting:
http://meetbot.debian.net/debian-ctte/2022/debian-ctte.2022-10-11-17.58.html
--
Sean Whitton
do a vote now, or we could leave it until January, unless there
is a controversial bug filed between now and then. In that case we
could easily do a chair vote before voting on the bug. The thought
would be that the casting vote could become relevant in that situation.
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Sean Whitton
updates are required
Minutes of previous meeting:
http://meetbot.debian.net/debian-ctte/2022/debian-ctte.2022-09-13-18.09.html
--
Sean Whitton
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on, but I don't believe
either of those are true.
> From a process standpoint, to what extent should this bug block the
> transition if the maintainer doesn't want it to.
Not at all, unless the RT or TC think otherwise.
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hey could drive that
> discussion debian-devel or some other forum.
>
> 2) Unless the TC or RT explicitly acts, the maintainer's severity
> (wishlist in this case) stands.
... but at least what you've said here seems correct to me.
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Sean Whitton
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crashes at *any* time do not
> render a system unbootable.
>
> See also: https://bugs.debian.org/1020920
(1) Do you mean any package update? Certain packages? dist-upgrade?
(2) The TC is a decision-making body of last resort. The bug you
mention was filed today. Might this be premature?
ast in the first instance.
Thanks for this helpful perspective.
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Sean Whitton
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to continue supporting non-merged systems up till that point, not
> by the dpkg bugs.
No, it remains in place beyond that, and a decision on lifting it has
not been made by anyone.
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Sean Whitton
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y said (paraphrasing) "the
transition is not complete until the work on dpkg is complete." But
they decided that less was to be done for bookworm: the transition is to
be left incomplete in just this way.
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Sean Whitton
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ly just made, which doesn't make sense.
Therefore, we will likely just close this bug, I'm afraid.
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Sean Whitton
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e Sam. If the three weeks expired
> today, I would have referred it to the CTTE as well.
You'll have seen it, but for the benefit of others, at our meeting this
week we decided that we will review the patch and determine whether we
have a consensus about applying it during our next monthly meeting.
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Sean Whitton
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tervening in this sort of way is not part of the TC's remit.
In any case, it seems that other, more relevant core teams have taken action.
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Sean Whitton
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support DPKG_ROOT
- Any other business
I'm delaying TC recruitment to October's meeting.
Minutes of previous meeting:
http://meetbot.debian.net/debian-ctte/2022/debian-ctte.2022-08-09-17.59.html
People with AIs: Emperor, gwolf, Myon, me
--
Sean Whitton
s case. An alternative would be to word the
resolution such that it counts as advice if we have a simple majority
and an override if we have a supermajority. I'd prefer the former, but
it would be good to hear from Helmut about it.
--
Sean Whitton
.
* Any other business
Minutes of previous meeting:
http://meetbot.debian.net/debian-ctte/2022/debian-ctte.2022-07-12-17.58.html
--
Sean Whitton
4275) and since the MR from
> five months ago has no maintainer activity, I wanted to ask you for informal
> advice on this. Should I just file a bug and NMU with maximum delay? Or is
> application of this fix deemed more important?
Informally, I suggest an NMU with a delay of five days, based on the
idea that the bug is of at least Severity: important.
--
Sean Whitton
is the result of discussing what
other things we might do, at length, both within the committee and with
the release team. We are continually monitoring the situation, and will
consider whether there is more for us to do each time things change
significantly.
--
Sean Whitton
Hello,
Great, thank you.
--
Sean Whitton
to know before then, please?
--
Sean Whitton
ject individual uploads, but accept
means accepting all of them because of how overrides work.
--
Sean Whitton
Hello,
On Wed 13 Jul 2022 at 03:20PM -07, Sean Whitton wrote:
> Here: https://people.debian.org/~spwhitton/talks/2022/tech-ctte.pdf
Updated, please re-fetch.
--
Sean Whitton
s
> for the best for now.
Many thanks for your work over the past two years. I find this
particularly sad because you and I were appointed at the same time. The
committee has benefitted from having you on it a great deal. Looking
forward to future opportunities to work together on free software.
--
Sean Whitton
Here: https://people.debian.org/~spwhitton/talks/2022/tech-ctte.pdf
I've not committed the PDF to git in case we need to tweak anything
between now and the talk. Gunnar knows how to recompile, or I can.
We'll commit the PDF to git afterwards.
--
Sean Whitton
oast of the USA. That means the
> talk is scheduled too early.
West coast*
Thanks Gunnar for sending this and hope it's possible to reschedule.
--
Sean Whitton
be there
in person.
* Any other business
Minutes of previous meeting:
http://meetbot.debian.net/debian-ctte/2022/debian-ctte.2022-06-14-18.01.html
--
Sean Whitton
Hello,
On Mon 20 Jun 2022 at 05:31PM -07, Sean Whitton wrote:
> BEGIN BALLOT
>
> Using its powers under constitution 6.1.5, the Technical Committee
> issues the following advice:
>
> 1. It is not a bug of any severity for a package with a non-native
> version number t
and 5
Option X -- issue only items 1, 2, 3 and 5
Option N -- none of the above.
END BALLOT
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Sean Whitton
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I don't understand -- why would it be irrelevant?
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Sean Whitton
eed their git repos on salsa. Not all of
them, but very many.
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Sean Whitton
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end the ballot as sent by Sean on
> June 7th.
>
> Thanks for bearing with me and bringing those arguments forward.
Cool, thanks for reviewing and confirming that.
--
Sean Whitton
ing the remaining packages when there's no reason to stay with
> 1.0, using the NMU procedure if needed.
I agree that this would be a good outcome, as expressed by your option 4c.
--
Sean Whitton
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utting back on features and workflows. But I
certainly agree that it would be better to have a better solution, like
Ian's sketch.
I think Ian has already suggested adding text to our resolution
recommending the development of such a source format. To be honest I
don't think it's really necessary as everyone agrees it would be better
to have it, but if you think it should be said explicitly then let's do
that.
--
Sean Whitton
s not inherent to all of the workflows we are discussing here,
just one of them. Indeed, this is one of the primary motivations for
one of the others.
--
Sean Whitton
Hello,
On Tue 10 May 2022 at 05:29pm -07, Sean Whitton wrote:
> At today's ctte meeting we considered whether we can start a vote on
> this, but two committee members were missing, and someone else at the
> meeting reported that they hadn't yet been able to spend enough time
> thin
solution text for a bug that's probably
been open too long already.
--
Sean Whitton
jects.
Right, hence why we want 'dgit clone' to be as useful as possible.
--
Sean Whitton
be a good ballot option to include, thank you.
--
Sean Whitton
d in itself, it would be good to have more concrete reasons for
wanting uniformity in this case documented in this bug (not necessarily
in the resolution text) before we add it to the ballot.
--
Sean Whitton
?
* DebConf22 presentation
* Any other business
People with AIs: Elana, Niko, Matthew, me
Minutes of previous meeting:
<http://meetbot.debian.net/debian-ctte/2022/debian-ctte.2022-05-10-17.59.html>
--
Sean Whitton
est practice. I think that they are a practice that is worth exploring
> and experimenting on, but not yet widely adopted nor understood. But I
> would be happy to be proven wrong (especially of based on facts).
I would say that we don't have a consensus on either.
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Sean Whitton
sig
,
including, but not limited to, git-first packaging workflows.
5. We decline to comment on the recent source package format MBF.
Option A -- issue items 1--5
Option B -- issue items 1, 2, 3 and 5, but not 4
Option N -- none of the above.
END DRAFT
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Sean Whitton
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other business
People with AIs: gwolf, ehashman, spwhitton, Myon
Minutes of previous meeting:
<http://meetbot.debian.net/debian-ctte/2022/debian-ctte.2022-04-05-17.59.html>
--
Sean Whitton
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in a binary package
> built from src:util-linux. If this package Conflicts with the rename
> package, then it must not contain any other binaries.
> ===End Resolution B
>
> ===Begin Resolution N
> None of the above
> ===End Resolution N
I vote
A > B > N
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Sean Whitton
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Hello,
On Fri 15 Apr 2022 at 01:14PM -07, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Sean Whitton writes:
>
>> In this case I believe you need to formally withdraw options A and
>> then propose another ballot.
>
> Minor procedural point: the person proposing the options can also freely
>
my first TC resolution, please be gentle if I have the procedure wrong!
Thank you for coming up with this text. Actually, the new procedure is
new to all of us; this is our first use of it.
In this case I believe you need to formally withdraw options A and
then propose another ballot.
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Sean Whitton
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Hello,
On Sat 09 Apr 2022 at 11:50am +02, Ansgar wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've prepared a patch for the current issue. See the attached proposed
> NMU diff. I've limited it to minimal changes.
I don't understand. The warning is already no longer emitted on Debian?
--
Sean Whitton
known.
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-dpkg/2022/04/msg7.html
Thanks for the link.
--
Sean Whitton
t at some point it will be
appropriate for the ctte to propose, but not one with the same text as
one of our merged-/usr decisions already issued -- that doesn't make
much constitutional sense, I think.
--
Sean Whitton
Hello,
On Tue 29 Mar 2022 at 11:01PM -06, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
> I already confirmed on IRC, but just to have it in the mail archive: I
> cannot make it at 19:00UTC. 18:00 is much better.
Okay, thank you, as I believe no-one /can't/ do 6pm UTC, let's switch to
that going forward.
--
Hello,
On Tue 29 Mar 2022 at 10:43PM +01, Matthew Vernon wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 29/03/2022 21:01, Sean Whitton wrote:
>
>> Due to both the current interpersonal situation and the impeding
>> DebConf22 CfP, can we have our meeting a week early? Please let me know
>>
Hello,
On Tue 29 Mar 2022 at 10:44PM +01, Matthew Vernon wrote:
> On 29/03/2022 21:11, Sean Whitton wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> On Tue 29 Mar 2022 at 01:01pm -07, Sean Whitton wrote:
>>
>>> Due to both the current interpersonal situation and the impeding
>&g
Hello,
On Tue 29 Mar 2022 at 09:06PM +02, Lucas Nussbaum wrote:
> On 28/03/22 at 16:21 -0700, Sean Whitton wrote:
>>
>> I don't think it's the preferred method. I believe most of the project
>> sees git histories are the preferred tool for achieving the goal you
>>
Hello,
On Tue 29 Mar 2022 at 01:01pm -07, Sean Whitton wrote:
> Due to both the current interpersonal situation and the impeding
> DebConf22 CfP, can we have our meeting a week early? Please let me know
> if you can't.
I think I'm the only person who is somewhere that doesn't observ
with AIs: ehashman, spwhitton
Minutes of the previous meeting:
<http://meetbot.debian.net/debian-ctte/2022/debian-ctte.2022-03-08-18.59.html>
--
Sean Whitton
r/bin/rename-from-perl at the same time.
Indeed, and doesn't it violate Policy 10.1, which says "Two different
packages must not install programs with different functionality but with
the same filenames" ? Perhaps it's an edge case.
--
Sean Whitton
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dgit.
Repositories for packages contain both upstream history and Debian
packaging history, and we have powerful git subcommands for extracting
information. In many cases there is a good argument to be made that the
git history is part of the preferred form of modification.
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Sean Whitton
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e it as well. Putting aside the postinst warning, the I
can't see anything the TC could do beyond what we've already done, until
there's a patch on the table. Thanks for the summary.
--
Sean Whitton
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ntents supports. That
is indeed subjective just as you explain. There exists disagreement
about whether the Ubuntu approach to implementing merged-/usr is adequate.
The difficulty is that Guillem's warning kind of refers to both.
--
Sean Whitton
Hello,
On Wed 16 Mar 2022 at 08:55am -07, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Sean Whitton writes:
>
>> Thanks for the pointer. It's only in the postinst, it seems. So this
>> is only going to get emitted once per system and only on upgraded
>> systems.
>
> I think the c
Hello,
On Wed 16 Mar 2022 at 12:39am -07, Josh Triplett wrote:
> On March 15, 2022 11:38:44 PM PDT, Sean Whitton
> wrote:
>>Hello Josh,
>>
>>On Tue 15 Mar 2022 at 03:14pm -07, Josh Triplett wrote:
>>
>>> It would appear that the situation has deteriora
ia-aliased-dirs.
> dpkg: warning: See <https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/Dpkg/FAQ#broken-usrmerge>.
Does this happen just when configuring dpkg.deb here, or does the
warning get issued at other times, have you seen?
--
Sean Whitton
This mail from Ian last week is helpful (technical) background.
--
Sean Whitton
Start of forwarded message
From: Ian Jackson
Message-ID: <25128.55315.630468.333...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2022 16:38:43 +0000
To: Sean Whitton
Cc
e 6.1.1/6.1.2 for most of this, but
for I.3 are you asking for us to use 6.1.4 or 6.1.5? "Request" seems
more like 6.1.5 but I would like to check.
--
Sean Whitton
points to util-linux's rename.
Hmm, if you are planning to create a symlink, then wouldn't both (A) and
(B) be okay with you?
--
Sean Whitton
r you prefer some (C). If we don't hear
back from you by the time of our next committee meeting in a month, we
will consider voting on (A) and (B).
Dirk, we would be grateful if you would comment on these two
resolutions, but we aren't going to block resolving this bug on hearing
from you.
Thanks both.
--
Sean Whitton
ll
think we need that information or not.
--
Sean Whitton
e util-linux
* Any other business
People with AIs: ehashman, spwhitton, helmut, Myon
Minutes of previous meeting:
<http://meetbot.debian.net/debian-ctte/2022/debian-ctte.2022-02-08-19.00.html>
--
Sean Whitton
Hello,
On Fri 04 Feb 2022 at 09:58pm -07, Sean Whitton wrote:
> Thanks for filling in the availability poll. Our new meeting date and
> time is 12pm UTC on the second Tuesday of each month. If you understand
> .ics, please consider updating the .ics file in salsa:debian/tech-ctt
- The only outstanding item is ehashman's AI from the December
meeting, which we missed reviewing in the January meeting
* Bug#1003653: Revision of removal of rename.ul from package util-linux
* Any other business
--
Sean Whitton
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Hello,
On Sun 30 Jan 2022 at 02:10PM -07, Sean Whitton wrote:
> ===BEGIN
>
> A: Christoph Berg
> B: Helmut Grohne
> C: Elana Hashman
> D: Simon McVittie
> E: Niko Tyni
> F: Matthew Vernon
> G: Sean Whitton
> H: Gunnar Wolf
>
> ===END
I vote
A =
McVittie
E: Niko Tyni
F: Matthew Vernon
G: Sean Whitton
H: Gunnar Wolf
===END
--
Sean Whitton
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Hello,
On Sun 30 Jan 2022 at 02:01PM -07, Sean Whitton wrote:
> Could everyone please fill in this poll regarding February's meeting,
> please? <https://dudle.inf.tu-dresden.de/DpJgSP5vCQ/>
...all times UTC.
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Sean Whitton
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have
voted, or until my resignation takes effect.
FAOD, I would like to continue in the role if the committee agrees.
The ballot:
===BEGIN
A: Christoph Berg
B: Helmut Grohne
C: Elana Hashman
D: Simon McVittie
E: Niko Tyni
F: Matthew Vernon
G: Sean Whitton
H: Gunnar Wolf
===END
--
Sean
r than
/usr/bin/rename, such that people are prompted to update their scripts
to choose one, or create their own symlink?
--
Sean Whitton
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Hello Christoph,
On Sun 23 Jan 2022 at 10:27PM +01, Christoph Berg wrote:
> Re: Sean Whitton
>> Hello,
>>
>> On Sun 23 Jan 2022 at 10:04PM +01, Chris Hofstaedtler wrote:
>>
>> > I guess the best thing would be to introduce a new binary package,
>>
Hello,
On Sun 23 Jan 2022 at 10:04PM +01, Chris Hofstaedtler wrote:
> I guess the best thing would be to introduce a new binary package,
> but I am out of ideas on naming it. Open for ideas here.
util-linux-extra?
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