Bug#994275: Reverting breaking changes in debianutils

2021-11-12 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello Raphael, On Tue 02 Nov 2021 at 08:31AM +01, Raphael Hertzog wrote: > On Mon, 01 Nov 2021, Sean Whitton wrote: >> Of course we should be exploring the new avenues that you mention. But >> becoming more willing to break unstable/testing than we are at present >> might

New semi-formal ctte role: TC facilitators

2021-11-10 Thread Sean Whitton
` in OFTC - If you prefer, mail a brief summary - To our mailing list (public, archived: `debian-ctte@lists.debian.org`) - To our private alias (`debian-ctte-priv...@debian.org`) -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Re: Next Meeting -- 14th October at 7pm UTC

2021-11-09 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Tue 09 Nov 2021 at 04:03PM -07, Sean Whitton wrote: > Our monthly meeting is scheduled to take place Wednesday at 6pm UTC, but > due to DST, ehashman can't attend unless we move it to 7pm. Three other > people say they prefer 7pm. bremner won't join this time. So unless >

Next Meeting -- 14th October at 7pm UTC

2021-11-09 Thread Sean Whitton
-- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Bug#994275: Reverting breaking changes in debianutils

2021-11-01 Thread Sean Whitton
or the sake of making major changes would always count as going backwards. Of course we should be exploring the new avenues that you mention. But becoming more willing to break unstable/testing than we are at present might also be good for our project. -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Bug#994275: Call for votes on "Reverting breaking changes in debianutils"

2021-10-20 Thread Sean Whitton
On Wed 20 Oct 2021 at 12:30PM -07, Sean Whitton wrote: > === Resolution A === > > The Technical Committee resolves: > > 1. The debianutils package must continue to provide the which(1) program >until a compatible utility is available in a package that is at least >t

Bug#994275: Call for votes on "Reverting breaking changes in debianutils"

2021-10-20 Thread Sean Whitton
(2) and renumber succeeding items. === End Resolutions === A: Issue Resolution A B: Issue Resolution B F: Further Discussion -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Bug#994275: Reverting breaking changes in debianutils

2021-10-18 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Sat 16 Oct 2021 at 05:50AM GMT, Clint Adams wrote: > On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 01:05:50PM -0700, Sean Whitton wrote: >>The debianutils package must continue to provide the tempfile(1) >>program until a compatible utility is available in a package that is

Bug#994275: Draft resolution for reverting changes in debianutils

2021-10-18 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Wed 13 Oct 2021 at 07:37PM -03, David Bremner wrote: > Sean Whitton writes: > >> 1. Offer advice: > >>The debianutils package must continue to provide the which(1) program >>until a compatible utility is available in a package that is at least &

Bug#994388: tech-ctte: More specific advice regarding merged-/usr and implications of #978636

2021-10-18 Thread Sean Whitton
filesystem > to the corresponding aliased directory in /usr, which can result in > the affected file disappearing. This can be avoided by not changing > the file's logical location until the beginning of the Debian 13 > development cycle, after the transition to merged-/usr is complete. > > - On non-merged-/usr systems, a failure mode has been observed in which > older shared libraries in /lib/MULTIARCH are not always deleted as > intended, and interfere with correct loading of the newer shared > library in /usr/lib/MULTIARCH. This can be avoided by not changing > the file's logical location until the beginning of the Debian 13 > development cycle, after the transition to merged-/usr is complete, > at which point ldconfig(8) will choose the newer library even if > this occurs. > > This recommendation applies until Debian 12 is released, or until > a subsequent Technical Committee resolution rescinds it, whichever > is sooner. We intend to rescind this recommendation if mechanisms are > developed to avoid the undesired side-effects of moving files from the > root filesystem into /usr. > > end text to be voted on -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Bug#994275: Draft resolution for reverting changes in debianutils

2021-10-13 Thread Sean Whitton
with such a move, and any programs that have already been moved must be moved back. In particular, this means debianutils must contain /bin/run-parts and /sbin/installkernel for the time being. ~=~=~=~=~ -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Bug#994388: tech-ctte: More specific advice regarding merged-/usr and implications of #978636

2021-10-13 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello Simon, On Tue 05 Oct 2021 at 07:48PM +01, Simon McVittie wrote: > On Sun, 03 Oct 2021 at 16:52:15 -0700, Sean Whitton wrote: >> On Mon 27 Sep 2021 at 10:59AM +01, Simon McVittie wrote: >> > On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 at 15:35:11 -0700, Sean Whitton wrote: >> >> (

Next Meeting -- 13th October at 6pm UTC

2021-10-13 Thread Sean Whitton
-17.59.html People with AIs: bremner, marga, spwhitton, smcv -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Next Meeting -- 13th October at 6pm UTC

2021-10-13 Thread Sean Whitton
-17.59.html People with AIs: bremner, marga, spwhitton, smcv -- Sean Whitton

Bug#994388: tech-ctte: More specific advice regarding merged-/usr and implications of #978636

2021-10-03 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Mon 27 Sep 2021 at 10:59AM +01, Simon McVittie wrote: > On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 at 15:35:11 -0700, Sean Whitton wrote: >> You write: >> >> >> - Because Debian 11 installations with the non-merged-/usr layout already >> >> exist, all packages

Bug#994275: Reverting breaking changes in debianutils

2021-09-24 Thread Sean Whitton
you see removing cjwatson-which from debianutils as achieving? Thanks. -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Bug#994388: tech-ctte: More specific advice regarding merged-/usr and implications of #978636

2021-09-16 Thread Sean Whitton
elease cycle (after which, assuming merged-/usr > goes as we have recommended, maintainers can swap their logical location > without needing a transitional mechanism any more). Implementing > merged-/usr as the only supported layout means that moving files into > /usr on an individual basis is mostly unnecessary, because it has no > practical effect any more. The case you make for this is convincing, given everything else said. -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Bug#994275: Reverting breaking changes in debianutils

2021-09-16 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Thu 16 Sep 2021 at 03:02PM -07, Sean Whitton wrote: > The TC can't do detailed design work, so without such a proposal on the > table, we're left deciding between a complete reversion and doing > nothing at all. It would be good to have more options. This isn't quite ri

Bug#994275: Reverting breaking changes in debianutils

2021-09-16 Thread Sean Whitton
o would (ii) include a transition/deprecation plan which would impose less of a burden, from your point of view, on Debian contributors? The TC can't do detailed design work, so without such a proposal on the table, we're left deciding between a complete reversion and doing nothing at all. It would be good to have more options. -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Next Meeting -- 8th September at 6pm UTC

2021-09-05 Thread Sean Whitton
server available? Proposed agenda: * Finalising private communication proposal * Finalising early invocation proposal * Any other business Notes from the previous monthly meeting: http://meetbot.debian.net/debian-ctte/2021/debian-ctte.2021-08-11-18.00.html -- Sean Whitton

The TC's DebConf21 session

2021-08-11 Thread Sean Whitton
? If you agree, can you let us know the arrangements for talkmeister training this year? We assigned me to this task, and marga would like to get trained too as a backup. Thank you! -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Next Meeting -- 11th August at 6pm UTC

2021-08-08 Thread Sean Whitton
-- Sean Whitton

Next Meeting -- 14th July at 6pm UTC

2021-07-09 Thread Sean Whitton
a quick test group video call * Any other business Notes from the previous monthly meeting: http://meetbot.debian.net/debian-ctte/2021/debian-ctte.2021-06-09-18.00.html People with AIs: ehashman, gwolf, spwhitton -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Bug#990426: www.debian.org: Clarify status of list of old TC decisions

2021-06-28 Thread Sean Whitton
-- Sean Whitton From 4e667d4efa461770e83c842bcd737380616c934e Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Sean Whitton Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2021 13:53:39 -0700 Subject: [PATCH] Be explicit that source of truth for TC activities is the BTS See minutes of TC meeting on 12th May 2021 for discussion: <h

Next Meeting - 9th June at 6pm UTC

2021-06-07 Thread Sean Whitton
Notes from the previous monthly meeting: http://meetbot.debian.net/debian-ctte/2021/debian-ctte.2021-05-12-18.00.html People with AIs: ehashman, marga -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Next Meeting - May 12th at 6pm UTC

2021-05-09 Thread Sean Whitton
* Any other business Notes from the previous monthly meeting: http://meetbot.debian.net/debian-ctte/2021/debian-ctte.2021-04-14-17.57.html People with AIs: ehashman, marga, smcv -- Sean Whitton

Next Meeting - April 14th at 6pm UTC

2021-04-10 Thread Sean Whitton
or not? * Moving forward with our reimagining the TC tasks * Any other business Notes from the previous monthly meeting: http://meetbot.debian.net/debian-ctte/2021/debian-ctte.2021-03-17-17.59.html People with AIs: ehashman, marga, smcv -- Sean Whitton

Bug#976462: debian bug 976462

2021-03-17 Thread Sean Whitton
rete tooling problems which would give us good reasons to disable compression. -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Bug#985270: Resignation + Call for votes for new Chair

2021-03-15 Thread Sean Whitton
Resending signed. On Mon 15 Mar 2021 at 08:46AM -07, Sean Whitton wrote: > On Mon 15 Mar 2021 at 10:30AM +01, Margarita Manterola wrote: > >> ===BEGIN=== >> >> The chair of the Debian Technical Committee will be: >> >> A : Margarita Manterola >>

Bug#985270: Resignation + Call for votes for new Chair

2021-03-15 Thread Sean Whitton
On Mon 15 Mar 2021 at 10:30AM +01, Margarita Manterola wrote: > ===BEGIN=== > > The chair of the Debian Technical Committee will be: > > A : Margarita Manterola > B : David Bremner > C : Niko Tyni > D : Gunnar Wolf > E : Simon McVittie > F : Sean Whi

Bug#976462: tech-ctte: Should dbgsym files be compressed via objcopy --compress-debug-section or not?

2021-03-07 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Sun 07 Mar 2021 at 03:50PM -07, Sean Whitton wrote: > This is not much good if your network is weak or you're offline, or you > don't want information on your debugging to go out to a web service. What I mean is: debuginfod is great in many scenarios, but we should probably care

Bug#976462: tech-ctte: Should dbgsym files be compressed via objcopy --compress-debug-section or not?

2021-03-07 Thread Sean Whitton
on your debugging to go out to a web service. -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Re: Bug#976462: tech-ctte: Should dbgsym files be compressed via objcopy --compress-debug-section or not?

2021-03-07 Thread Sean Whitton
you think you could do some grouping -- e.g. put all the kde packages together and see what that comes to? A lot of debugging scenarios are going to involve groups of packages like these. -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Bug#982987: tech-ctte: Call for votes for new CTTE member

2021-02-17 Thread Sean Whitton
on > > ===END I vote A > B -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Bug#976462: Bug#631985: Compress debug

2021-02-07 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Thu 04 Feb 2021 at 03:20PM -08, Josh Triplett wrote: > On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 12:01:02 -0700 Sean Whitton > wrote: >> On Mon 07 Nov 2011 at 06:34PM +01, Bastien ROUCARIES wrote: >> > I agree it could be done by default with compat 9. Will decrease the >> >

Bug#976462: Bug#631985: Compress debug

2021-01-25 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello Bastien, On Mon 07 Nov 2011 at 06:34PM +01, Bastien ROUCARIES wrote: > I agree it could be done by default with compat 9. Will decrease the > size of archive also. I need more than 10G in order to debug kde... Does this sort of thing still apply in 2021? Thanks. -- Sean W

quick input request: use cases for compressed debug symbols

2021-01-25 Thread Sean Whitton
, but are not sure whether anyone is finding this useful in the present technological era, so to speak. Please write to #922744 if you are affected by this. Thanks. -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Bug#978636: move to merged-usr-only?

2021-01-25 Thread Sean Whitton
not recommend any particular implementation of the migration. Y: Yes, support only merged-usr in the 'bookworm' release. N: No, continue to support both layouts in 'bookworm'. F: Further Discussion ===END -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Bug#978636: move to merged-usr-only?

2021-01-25 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Mon 25 Jan 2021 at 11:45AM -07, Sean Whitton wrote: > I call for votes on the following ballot to resolve #978636. The voting > period starts immediately and lasts for up to one week, or until the > outcome is no longer in doubt (§6.3.1). > > ===BEGIN > The T

Bug#975075: tech-ctte: non-systemd dependencies in non-NM packages

2021-01-12 Thread Sean Whitton
init-scripts if for whatever reason it ends up being > necessary? Once the package has cleared NEW, we should definitely mention it in Policy; whether we say anything to discourage dropping init scripts is trickier however. -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Bug#975075: tech-ctte: Should maintainers be able to block init compatibility changes?

2020-12-28 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Mon 28 Dec 2020 at 12:24AM +01, gregor herrmann wrote: > On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 15:39:47 -0700, Sean Whitton wrote: > >> On Sun 27 Dec 2020 at 07:26PM +02, Wouter Verhelst wrote: >> > My reasoning is that init scripts are the end goal, and that elogind is >> &

Bug#975075: tech-ctte: Should maintainers be able to block init compatibility changes?

2020-12-27 Thread Sean Whitton
s elogind and not init scripts. -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Bug#975075: tech-ctte: Should maintainers be able to block init compatibility changes?

2020-12-15 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Tue 15 Dec 2020 at 11:14AM GMT, Mark Hindley wrote: > Sean and Simon, > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 01:17:30PM -0700, Sean Whitton wrote: >> > In the cases where the regression was accidental, ideally, the answer >> > would be someone calmly and polit

Bug#976462: tech-ctte: Should dbgsym files be compressed via objcopy --compress-debug-section or not?

2020-12-14 Thread Sean Whitton
s later perhaps it is more.) On the other hand, in #922744, there is only an unsubstantiated reference to tooling support. I'm going to write to the submitter of #922744 asking for more info. > Why punt it to you? > === > > [...] I think the reasons you give

Bug#975381: Subject: libinih: drop Debian's custom vendorisation

2020-12-14 Thread Sean Whitton
e need a summary. Please make another attempt at summarising the dispute. Please also indicate which of the TC's powers (as granted by the constitution) you are asking us to make use of. Thanks. -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Bug#975075: tech-ctte: Should maintainers be able to block init compatibility changes?

2020-12-14 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Mon 14 Dec 2020 at 10:58AM GMT, Simon McVittie wrote: > On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 14:38:24 -0700, Sean Whitton wrote: > >> Participants in the thread who have argued on that side of the >> discussion seem to implicitly rely on the idea that a package maintainer

Bug#975075: tech-ctte: Should maintainers be able to block init compatibility changes?

2020-12-13 Thread Sean Whitton
hich do not rely on the idea that a package maintainer is equally responsible for regressions anywhere in their package, or, of course, an argument that I'm misunderstanding what's being implicitly assumed. The dependency issue is more challenging. -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Bug#975075: tech-ctte: Should maintainers be able to block init compatibility changes?

2020-11-19 Thread Sean Whitton
would necessarily involve the TC interacting with the GR in a way that the constitution does not permit. We are being asked to decide about one package, and being invited to generalise in a way that falls within the scope of our dispute resolution role. -- Sean Whitton

Bug#975075: tech-ctte: Should maintainers be able to block init compatibility changes?

2020-11-19 Thread Sean Whitton
led input from the package maintainer. We can speculate as to whether the dispute would have proceeded better or worse with more verbose messages from Michael before now, but it would be beside the point. -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Bug#975075: tech-ctte: Should maintainers be able to block init compatibility changes?

2020-11-19 Thread Sean Whitton
led input from the package maintainer. We can speculate as to whether the dispute would have proceeded better or worse with more verbose messages from Michael before now, but it would be beside the point. -- Sean Whitton

Today's meeting

2020-11-18 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, Just to note that we had a meeting today: http://meetbot.debian.net/debian-ctte/2020/debian-ctte.2020-11-18-17.58.html -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Bug#971515: Status as of last tech-ctte meeting

2020-11-18 Thread Sean Whitton
t today's meeting one point which we thought was missing from this summary was that no-one on the committee has any appetite for overruling the package maintainer, so it is very unlikely that will be the outcome of this bug. -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Bug#947847: Fwd: Bug#946456: systemd: Provide systemd-sysusers as an independent package

2020-11-07 Thread Sean Whitton
tandalone-tmpfiles > - Those binaries packages would only ship /bin/systemd-sysusers resp. > /bin/systemd-tmpfiles and have a Conflicts/Replaces: systemd From an ftpteam perspective it would probably be preferable to have a single systemd-standalone binary package which could, if you wanted, have Provi

Bug#971515: Request for security team input on kubernetes TC bug

2020-10-21 Thread Sean Whitton
give us some input, please? Thanks. -- Sean Whitton

Bug#971515: kubernetes: excessive vendoring (private libraries)

2020-10-21 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello Dmitry, On Wed 21 Oct 2020 at 11:21am +11, Dmitry Smirnov wrote: > On Wednesday, 21 October 2020 6:16:03 AM AEDT Sean Whitton wrote: >> I think that my message [1] is what makes you think that the package >> would not have got through NEW? > > It was not your message

Re: Bug#971515: kubernetes: excessive vendoring (private libraries)

2020-10-21 Thread Sean Whitton
what to do about this package given our present tooling. -- Sean Whitton

Bug#971515: kubernetes: excessive vendoring (private libraries)

2020-10-20 Thread Sean Whitton
accept a less-than-ideal approach as necessary when one has put a lot of time into trying to find workable alternatives. The thing is, both (a) and (b) are motivated by the same basic desire to make Debian better and more useful, so perhaps we can focus on that point of commonality. [1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2020/03/msg00363.html -- Sean Whitton

Collating responses to our request for input

2020-08-19 Thread Sean Whitton
hink could be actionable within our current conception of the scope of the reform project. But we could come back to them after the current project has concluded. -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Re: Dispute resolution in Debian

2020-07-29 Thread Sean Whitton
he Community Team. So what you are proposing would correspond to the last of our proposals -- try to remove the meditation role the TC presently has? -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Re: Dispute resolution in Debian

2020-07-27 Thread Sean Whitton
y team as mostly about the CoC -- not just strict violations but conformance with its spirit -- whereas the TC is about disagreements which do not involve (or do not primarily involve) CoC issues. In which case, the relationship between the two would not really fit the model you suggest. -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Re: Rethinking the role of the TC

2020-07-26 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Sun 26 Jul 2020 at 08:47AM -07, Sean Whitton wrote: > It's late in the day but I would like to suggest including this > paragraph in the document in some form. Thank you for doing this in commits today. I'd like to suggest going a bit further, however -- how about this: A

Re: Rethinking the role of the TC

2020-07-26 Thread Sean Whitton
ue of mediation above. I think the idea might be to accept that people aren't very good at this and try to help them earlier. -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Re: Rethinking the role of the TC

2020-07-26 Thread Sean Whitton
from people who aren't really in favour of the option but are inclined towards discussing each possibility. In the end, I'm happy to trust your judgement on whether completeness is a good reason to keep this in, but I do think that avoiding subdiscussions that will go nowhere but have the

Request for input -- rethinking the role of the TC

2020-07-18 Thread Sean Whitton
Dear Ian, On Sat 18 Jul 2020 at 10:16AM -07, Sean Whitton wrote: > On Sat 18 Jul 2020 at 04:29PM +02, Margarita Manterola wrote: > >> The doc collects the main problems that have been raised about the TC >> and a bunch of proposals of what we can do about it. Neither list is &g

Re: Rethinking the role of the TC

2020-07-18 Thread Sean Whitton
d like to have a concrete conception of how this could make the TC more useful before going down that road. -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Bug#965080: Resignation + Call for votes for new Chair

2020-07-15 Thread Sean Whitton
; D : Niko Tyni > E : Gunnar Wolf > F : Simon McVittie > G : Sean Whitton > H : Elana Hashman > > ===END=== I vote: B > C > A = D = E = F > G = H -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

[Draft] requesting questions for debconf20 BoF

2020-07-04 Thread Sean Whitton
a list of talking points before the session, and structure the BoF around them. Please address your questions and talking points to , preferably in reply to this message for easier collation. = [the plan] -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Bug#963112: [Pkg-javascript-devel] node-katex_0.10.2+dfsg-2_amd64.changes REJECTED

2020-06-23 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Tue 23 Jun 2020 at 01:47AM +02, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > Quoting Sean Whitton (2020-06-22 23:26:37) >> Would someone want to use libjs-katex without nodejs installed? > > Yes: Pandoc can produce output which uses katex rendered with the > Javascript interpret

Bug#963112: [Pkg-javascript-devel] node-katex_0.10.2+dfsg-2_amd64.changes REJECTED

2020-06-22 Thread Sean Whitton
ugh. They could have just asked for an explanation before rejecting. You should ensure it's visible in the source package, in README.{source,Debian} and/or d/changelog. -- Sean Whitton

Bug#963112: [Pkg-javascript-devel] node-katex_0.10.2+dfsg-2_amd64.changes REJECTED

2020-06-21 Thread Sean Whitton
binary package split to solve a problem and that's a reasonable way to go about solving the problem, we'll sign off on it. -- Sean Whitton

Re: DebConf20 Moves Online

2020-06-12 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Fri 12 Jun 2020 at 10:46AM -03, Antonio Terceiro wrote: > So, please [submit your talk, sprint, and BoF proposals][1] for DebConf > 20 Online. > > [1]: https://debconf20.debconf.org/cfp/ Should we try to organise a virtual Meet the Technical Committee? -- Sean Whitton

Re: tech-ctte: Call for votes on TC membership of Elana and Sean

2020-06-01 Thread Sean Whitton
might be a reason to use that in official mail like this one. > The Technical Committee now consists of: > > * Margarita Manterola (chairperson) > * Philip Hands > * David Bremner > * Niko Tyni > * Gunnar Wolf > * Simon McVittie > * Elana Hashman > * Se

Re: tech-ctte: Call for votes on TC membership of Elana and Sean

2020-05-28 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Thu 28 May 2020 at 09:39AM -07, Sean Whitton wrote: > I don't believe that odyx, philh or tfheen are members anymore; their > terms expired. marga is the current chair. Er. Phil is still a member. Sorry :) -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Re: tech-ctte: Call for votes on TC membership of Elana and Sean

2020-05-28 Thread Sean Whitton
* Elana Hashman > * Sean Whitton > > I am extremely happy to follow their recommendation and hereby > appoint Elana and Sean as members of the Technical Committee, effective > immediately. > > For reference, their nominations and votes are recorded at: > > * https://bugs.debia

Possible improvements to the Policy Changes Process (was: Re: Thinking about Delegating Decisions about Policy)

2019-06-23 Thread Sean Whitton
t to be dealt with. > > While vacillation is undesirable, making it easier and less socially > costly to handle mistakes, will make it easier to make changes. I agree that this could help a lot. I have certainly felt hesitation before committing a change, thinking "maybe we should give people more time to raise issues with this change", and this would avoid that sort of situation. -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Re: Managing Frozen text when the TC Decides Policy

2019-06-23 Thread Sean Whitton
on the role of Policy Editor I subscribed myself to the T.C.'s mailing list. I consider it part of the role to keep abreast of their activities. In light of the present thread, I'll keep in mind the need to flag to the T.C. places where decisions they are about to take might have an impact on

Re: Concluding "What should happen when maintscripts fail to restart a service?"

2019-06-21 Thread Sean Whitton
ficult problems. That isn't how things are, because while there are indeed a lot of hard problems, they are largely independent of each other, and tackling individual debian-policy bugs really does improve Debian. However, it is much harder to see that when half of the open bugs are more than five years old yet not tagged wontfix. -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Concluding "What should happen when maintscripts fail to restart a service?"

2019-06-20 Thread Sean Whitton
nger think this would be useful enough to have in Policy, but I'd like to hear from anyone who disagrees. -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Re: Managing Frozen text when the TC Decides Policy

2019-05-15 Thread Sean Whitton
e to the Policy Manual because of a particular T.C. decision. It's very complicated and time-consuming to discuss in the abstract, and it has not actually been a problem in at least the last two to three years. -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Re: Thinking about Delegating Decisions about Policy

2019-05-15 Thread Sean Whitton
hat could be solved by patching the Policy Manual, the T.C. should respond to the question by opening a bug against the Policy Manual, and suspending the T.C. bug until it becomes clear whether or not that debian-policy bug is going to reach consensus? -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Re: Thinking about Delegating Decisions about Policy

2019-05-15 Thread Sean Whitton
ine of fire when difficult decisions are > being made, and perhaps because they didn't want to try to become > experts in everything. But it means that uncontroversial changes can > languish. Do you (or anyone else) have any concrete ideas for simplifying the proposer/seconder scheme, without significantly reducing the oversight on changes, even uncontroversial ones? -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Bug#904302: CTTE decision on vendor-specific patch series (bug #904302)

2018-11-17 Thread Sean Whitton
his. Should be in the next Policy release. -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Bug#904302: Whether vendor-specific patch series should be permitted in the archive

2018-10-02 Thread Sean Whitton
ing of my initial mail was ambiguous with regard to which one of these was being requested. I would be grateful if you would micromanage just enough that there isn't anything controversial left for people to disagree about :) -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Bug#904302: Whether vendor-specific patch series should be permitted in the archive

2018-09-16 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Sat 15 Sep 2018 at 07:06PM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: > A first draft is below, feedback on wording and content appreciated. LGTM, thank you. -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Bug#904302: Why outlawing vendor-specific patch series would be a bad idea

2018-08-19 Thread Sean Whitton
Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 09:22:17AM +0800, Sean Whitton wrote: >> For example, someone might want to use a Debian system to investigate a >> bug on an Ubuntu system. They might begin by downloading some source >> packages from the Ubuntu mirrors. Since they obtained them from Ubu

Bug#904302: Why outlawing vendor-specific patch series would be a bad idea

2018-08-18 Thread Sean Whitton
; > This package skips steps 1 and 2, but does all of steps 3-6. But all of steps 3--6 are part of the package build. "The source" is what you get after steps 1 and 2. -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Bug#904302: Why outlawing vendor-specific patch series would be a bad idea

2018-08-17 Thread Sean Whitton
surely a completely separate issue (which we should discuss at the level of Debian Policy, not refer directly to the T.C.). -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Bug#904302: Whether vendor-specific patch series should be permitted in the archive

2018-08-17 Thread Sean Whitton
time to fix their > packages > and only become a MUST once those packages have been fixed (or something > along those lines, maybe after buster is released). I'd like to suggest giving a window of time. Otherwise the policy process alone won't really have the authority to switch from sh

Bug#904302: Why outlawing vendor-specific patch series would be a bad idea

2018-08-17 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Fri 17 Aug 2018 at 12:01AM +0300, Adrian Bunk wrote: > On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 09:22:17AM +0800, Sean Whitton wrote: >> For example, someone might want to use a Debian system to investigate a >> bug on an Ubuntu system. They might begin by downloading some source &

Bug#904558: What should happen when maintscripts fail to restart a service

2018-08-10 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, Thank you for your reply. On Thu 09 Aug 2018 at 09:19pm +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: > ]] Sean Whitton > >> The general question about which I am seeking advice: does the >> T.C. think that Debian can be consistent on service (re)starts in >> maintscripts,

Bug#904302: Whether vendor-specific patch series should be permitted in the archive

2018-07-30 Thread Sean Whitton
s both Policy and TC.) We're not really in the normal Policy case anymore, because normally people talk it out and reach consensus. For this bug that simply has not happened. -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Bug#904302: Whether vendor-specific patch series should be permitted in the archive

2018-07-29 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Sun 29 Jul 2018 at 10:14PM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote: > Sean Whitton dijo [Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 09:30:04AM +0800]: >> > I believe his request might also be considered under §6.1.1, since we're >> > being asked about a policy change. (After talking to Sean in pe

Bug#904302: Whether vendor-specific patch series should be permitted in the archive

2018-07-29 Thread Sean Whitton
chnically it's §6.1.3 because according to the policy team delegation, we decide what goes into the policy manual. But it certainly falls under at least one of §6.1.1 and §6.1.3, and not §6.1.4. -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Bug#904558: What should happen when maintscripts fail to restart a service

2018-07-24 Thread Sean Whitton
sk the T.C. to decide what maintscripts should do in these cases. The general question about which I am seeking advice: does the T.C. think that Debian can be consistent on service (re)starts in maintscripts, or is the best we can do to leave it up to package maintainer discretion? Thanks. -- Se

Bug#904302: Whether vendor-specific patch series should be permitted in the archive

2018-07-22 Thread Sean Whitton
e are much more subtle and not a matter of the system on which the source package is unpacked, so I suggest leaving those aside for this bug. [2] https://bugs.debian.org/850156#55 -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Re: TC nomination procedure v0

2017-12-01 Thread Sean Whitton
le putting themselves forward for the TC. -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Re: TC nomination procedure v0

2017-11-28 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Tue, Nov 28 2017, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote: > - The TC *does not* make the number of nominees or number of > accepted nominations public. I'm curious to here the thinking behind this particular line of the procedure. -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Re: Bug#839172: TC decision regarding #741573 menu policy not reflected yet

2017-08-04 Thread Sean Whitton
t thought it'd be useful to point at the > previous discussion about this very subject. Thank you for digging this up! I have no desire to argue in favour of either your patch or mine, but since mine has been okayed by three TC members in this bug, in the interests of getting this bug closed, I've

Re: Bug#839172: TC decision regarding #741573 menu policy not reflected yet

2017-08-03 Thread Sean Whitton
or the patch, with the plural/singular fixed? -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Re: Bug#839172: TC decision regarding #741573 menu policy not reflected yet

2017-08-03 Thread Sean Whitton
r that there is a reference back to the > earlier definition? > > If you meant to get rid of that, no problem. Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. Are you referring to the paragraph I deleted? -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature

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