On Fri, Nov 02, 2012 at 11:43:21AM +0100, Matthias Klose wrote:
> this is a patch I'm proposing to apply to the Ubuntu eglibc builds
> for precise, quantal and raring.
>
> - it adds symlinks for .a, .so and .o files
> - adds a symlink for the asm header dir
> - depends on the libc-dev- packages
On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 12:57:50AM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> > Some things must be as simple as possible even today.
>
> Care to elaborate why? To save memory on an 8 GB workstation? Even the 25 US$
> Raspberry Pi has enough power for systemd.
This is obvious. For security and
On Thu, 2012-11-15 at 11:20 +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 5:02 AM, Niels Thykier wrote:
>
> > We are considering removing the following packages from testing as
> > they have unfixed RC bugs filed against them. The packages can be
> > found in the attached dd-list.
> ...
> > Al
On Thu, 2012-11-15 at 11:37 +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> On 11/15/2012 10:07 AM, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 01:11:32AM +, Roger Leigh wrote:
> > [...]
> >> So systems which put additional logic in PID 1 are going to increase
> >> the probability of bugs being present, an
Hi Daniel,
thanks for your detailed report!
You also commented a lot on your actual practice (thanks!) so I changed
the subject to reflect the slight topic change of my reply.
On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 05:54:06PM -0800, Daniel Schepler wrote:
> I read your recent post to debian-devel with great in
On 11/15/2012 07:57 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On Nov 14, 2012, at 6:43 PM, lego12...@yandex.ru wrote:
>
>>> Modern computer systems are much more versatile and complex than they were
>>> at the time when System V Init was conceived.
>> Some things must be as simple as possible even t
On 11/15/2012 10:07 AM, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 01:11:32AM +, Roger Leigh wrote:
> [...]
>> So systems which put additional logic in PID 1 are going to increase
>> the probability of bugs being present, and those bugs could kill
>> your system.
> [...]
>
> This is also tr
On 15/11/12 04:20, Paul Wise wrote:
On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 5:02 AM, Niels Thykier wrote:
We are considering removing the following packages from testing as
they have unfixed RC bugs filed against them. The packages can be
found in the attached dd-list.
...
Alexander Wirt
ferm
Um, DSA
On 11/15/2012 06:43 AM, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> I believe the regression (removal of support for firmware loading
> during module loading) has been fixed. However, the udev developers
> *knew in advance* that this would be a problem, reported such uses of
> firmware loading as being driver bugs. The
On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 5:02 AM, Niels Thykier wrote:
> We are considering removing the following packages from testing as
> they have unfixed RC bugs filed against them. The packages can be
> found in the attached dd-list.
...
> Alexander Wirt
>ferm
Um, DSA might not be happy about that sin
Hi,
Just a question, is there any reason not provide Packages.xz and
Contents-.xz in package repository? I cannot find any information
about it, so please tell me.
> henrich@hp:/tmp$ du -k Packages.*
> 6052 Packages.bz2
> 5812 Packages.xz
> henrich@hp:/tmp$ time bzip2 -d Packages.bz2
>
> r
I read your recent post to debian-devel with great interest, as I've
done some bootstrapping efforts in the past, and I'm currently in the
middle of a "port" for the x32 ABI. In the past, what I've done
(mostly privately) was to develop a script I called "pbuildd" which
essentially just runs throu
On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 01:11:32AM +, Roger Leigh wrote:
[...]
> So systems which put additional logic in PID 1 are going to increase
> the probability of bugs being present, and those bugs could kill
> your system.
[...]
This is also true for the kernel, which is why we generally prefer
to us
On 15/11/12 00:15, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote:
On 14 November 2012 15:31, Benjamin Drung wrote:
Am Mittwoch, den 14.11.2012, 15:32 +0400 schrieb Игорь Пашев:
2012/11/14 Philip Ashmore
simple format which, like xml, is human-readable
XML is not human-readable :-)
XML is human-readabl
On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 12:57:50AM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On Nov 14, 2012, at 6:43 PM, lego12...@yandex.ru wrote:
>
> >> Modern computer systems are much more versatile and complex than they were
> >> at the time when System V Init was conceived.
> >
> > Some things must be a
As a source for some of our concerns here is us trying to separate out
the udev build system so we can build ONLY udev if we want to install
ONLY udev (we have to build systemd if we want ONLY udev right now).
This means we have to pull in build deps even if we don't actually need
them.
http://li
On Nov 15, 2012, at 1:17 AM, Ben Hutchings wrote:
>>> [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+bug/557177
>
> I suppose you should comment on it too, just to add your indignation
> at a bug that never affected you and wasn't fixed for a whole 2 days.
Yes, it was fixed, after a ver
On Nov 15, 2012, at 1:19 AM, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 12:45:48AM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
>>> This is not theoretical. upstart has been PID 1 in Ubuntu since 2006. It
>>> *is* absolutely dependable and reliable.
>
>> Upstart has had its problems, too [1].
On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 12:45:48AM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> > This is not theoretical. upstart has been PID 1 in Ubuntu since 2006. It
> > *is* absolutely dependable and reliable.
> Upstart has had its problems, too [1].
> [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+
On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 12:45:48AM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On Nov 15, 2012, at 12:23 AM, Steve Langasek wrote:
[...]
> > This is not theoretical. upstart has been PID 1 in Ubuntu since 2006. It
> > *is* absolutely dependable and reliable.
>
> Upstart has had its problems, too
On 14 November 2012 15:31, Benjamin Drung wrote:
> Am Mittwoch, den 14.11.2012, 15:32 +0400 schrieb Игорь Пашев:
>>
>>
>> 2012/11/14 Philip Ashmore
>> simple format which, like xml, is human-readable
>>
>>
>> XML is not human-readable :-)
>
> XML is human-readable, but in most cases ugly
On Nov 14, 2012, at 6:43 PM, lego12...@yandex.ru wrote:
>> Modern computer systems are much more versatile and complex than they were
>> at the time when System V Init was conceived.
>
> Some things must be as simple as possible even today.
Care to elaborate why? To save memory on an 8 GB work
On Nov 15, 2012, at 12:23 AM, Steve Langasek wrote:
> Upstart provides a PID 1 that is absolutely rock solid. It's true that it's
> more complex than sysvinit, because it's more featureful;
The same is valid for the comparision of upstart vs systemd.
> And of all the concerns raised when Ubunt
On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 04:05:12PM +, Roger Leigh wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 03:04:35PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> > On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 09:49:07PM +0800, Patrick Lauer wrote:
> > > But anyway, we're getting tired of their ADHD-driven changes just to
> > > change things
Hi,
On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 10:02:10PM +0100, Niels Thykier wrote:
[...]
> Should you need a bit more time than given, please do not hesitate to
> contact us. It is also easier for us if we can avoid having to
> reintroduce a removed package.
[...]
> Debian Sympa team
>sympa
>
> Emmanuel
On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 11:43 PM, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> I believe the regression (removal of support for firmware loading
> during module loading) has been fixed. However, the udev developers
> *knew in advance* that this would be a problem, reported such uses
> of firmware loading as being dri
On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 11:34:27PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 03:41:55PM -0300, gustavo panizzo wrote:
> > >udev isn't broken.
> >
> > really?
> >
> > https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=134012&p=1
>
> I actually remember having seen this issue on F
On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 03:41:55PM -0300, gustavo panizzo wrote:
> >udev isn't broken.
>
> really?
>
> https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=134012&p=1
I actually remember having seen this issue on Fedora Rawhide as well,
but it vanished after an update a few weeks ago, so it rather seems
Hi!
All these concerns about systemd and systemd vs. upstart have been
addressed in a very good way by the systemd authors.
Also, I would like to point out that "systemd" is the name of a
project with multiple binaries - all the features systemd provides
don't mean that everything is running in one
Steve Langasek wrote:
> Pretty sure you have this backwards. The decision to implement upstart and
> use it in Ubuntu was a technical [corrected] one. The decision to NIH a
> dependency-based init system and then try to strongarm everyone into using
> it by breaking compatibility was the politica
On Nov 14, 2012, at 10:11 PM, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 12:47:11PM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
>> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 03:04:35PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
>>> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 09:49:07PM +0800, Patrick Lauer wrote:
But anyway, we're getting tir
On 14/11/12 16:52, Dominique Dumont wrote:
On Wednesday 14 November 2012 12:26:56 Philip Ashmore wrote:
The packaging tools used by Debian and others have a steep learning
curve because their representation isn't human-friendly - it's all for
the convenience of a build system dating back to UNIX
On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 12:47:11PM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 03:04:35PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> > On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 09:49:07PM +0800, Patrick Lauer wrote:
> > > But anyway, we're getting tired of their ADHD-driven changes just to
> > > change thi
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256
Hi,
We are considering removing the following packages from testing as
they have unfixed RC bugs filed against them. The packages can be
found in the attached dd-list. The bugs that put them on this list
can be found in the removals file (also atta
On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 03:04:35PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 09:49:07PM +0800, Patrick Lauer wrote:
> > But anyway, we're getting tired of their ADHD-driven changes just to
> > change things
> TBH, I'm getting tired of people who are constantly shooting agai
Hi!
On Wed, 2012-11-14 at 21:49:07 +0800, Patrick Lauer wrote:
> But anyway, we're getting tired of their ADHD-driven changes just to
> change things - maybe we can build up enough momentum so that things
> might just be less frustrating for us all. You're all welcome to join,
> ignore us or do wh
About 10 days ago I sent an email to m...@qu.debian.org requesting that this
package be orphaned. They suggested that I email the sponsor/co-maintainer,
Petter Reinholdtsen, which I did, but I have so far had no response from him
either.
- Phil
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ..
On 2012-11-14 15:16, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
On Nov 14, 2012, at 7:06 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
On 11/14/2012 10:37 PM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
True, but as I said, System V Init is not a good concept anymore,
that's why it's being dropped. Apple dropped the old init system
On 11/15/2012 01:26 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On Nov 14, 2012, at 5:05 PM, Roger Leigh wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 03:04:35PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
>>> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 09:49:07PM +0800, Patrick Lauer wrote:
But anyway, we're getting tired of thei
On Nov 14, 2012, at 7:06 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> On 11/14/2012 10:37 PM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
>> True, but as I said, System V Init is not a good concept anymore,
>> that's why it's being dropped. Apple dropped the old init system with
>> MacOS X 10.4, why should the Linux world s
On 11/14/2012 10:37 PM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> True, but as I said, System V Init is not a good concept anymore,
> that's why it's being dropped. Apple dropped the old init system with
> MacOS X 10.4, why should the Linux world still stick to it in 2012?
Could we try not to mix the init
On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 06:26:39PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> > If you want a reliable system, you need a reliable PID 1. Putting
> > additional complexity into PID1 increases the likelihood that a
> > bug will bring down your *entire system*. PID 1 is a single point
> > of failur
On Nov 14, 2012, at 5:05 PM, Roger Leigh wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 03:04:35PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
>> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 09:49:07PM +0800, Patrick Lauer wrote:
>>> But anyway, we're getting tired of their ADHD-driven changes just to
>>> change things
>>
>> TBH, I'm
On Tuesday 13 November 2012 12:12:14 random.numb...@gmx.com wrote:
> libimage-exiftool-perl got its last update in July 2011.
...
> Mari's last reaction to this bug was five months ago.
This package could be also maintained by Debian-perl team.
Mari, do you have any objection if Debian-perl team
On Wednesday 14 November 2012 12:26:56 Philip Ashmore wrote:
> The packaging tools used by Debian and others have a steep learning
> curve because their representation isn't human-friendly - it's all for
> the convenience of a build system dating back to UNIX.
>
> I'm talking about a graphical i
On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 03:04:35PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 09:49:07PM +0800, Patrick Lauer wrote:
> > But anyway, we're getting tired of their ADHD-driven changes just to
> > change things
>
> TBH, I'm getting tired of people who are constantly shooting ag
On 11/14/2012 07:53 PM, Matthias Klumpp wrote:
> What are the problems they try to address?
Haven't you read this?
https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/10/2/505
Plus the unwanted move from / to /usr, insane configuration file
things not using /etc, and more RedHat-ismes which have been
discussed at large i
Am Mittwoch, den 14.11.2012, 15:32 +0400 schrieb Игорь Пашев:
>
>
> 2012/11/14 Philip Ashmore
> simple format which, like xml, is human-readable
>
>
> XML is not human-readable :-)
XML is human-readable, but in most cases ugly to write. IMO XML is not
human-writable.
--
Benjamin Dru
On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 10:28:34PM +0800, Patrick Lauer wrote:
> I'm tired of these changes that don't solve any problems. Half-baked
> stuff that is deployed before it is even feature-complete with the
> boring old stuff it is supposed to replace. How would you feel about a
> forced upgrade of a
On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 09:20:05AM -0500, The Wanderer wrote:
> But why is a 30-year-old concept necessarily worse than a new one? Or to put
> it
> another way, why is it necessary to "bring Linux forward", in cases where what
> is already present is good and works well? (And, taken further: in ca
On 11/14/12 22:04, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 09:49:07PM +0800, Patrick Lauer wrote:
>> But anyway, we're getting tired of their ADHD-driven changes just to
>> change things
>
> TBH, I'm getting tired of people who are constantly shooting against
> them because thes
On 11/14/2012 09:04 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 09:49:07PM +0800, Patrick Lauer wrote:
But anyway, we're getting tired of their ADHD-driven changes just to change
things
TBH, I'm getting tired of people who are constantly shooting against them
because these p
On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 09:49:07PM +0800, Patrick Lauer wrote:
> But anyway, we're getting tired of their ADHD-driven changes just to
> change things
TBH, I'm getting tired of people who are constantly shooting against
them because these people are unwilling to accept changes. We're not
bringing L
On 11/14/12 19:53, Matthias Klumpp wrote:
> What are the problems they try to address?
Removal of features, broken build system, etc.
Just the little things that make things exciting (and we prefer things
to be boring so we can sleep at night)
Plus an unpredictable upstream that can't be trusted
On 11/14/12 18:37, martin f krafft wrote:
> also sprach Thomas Goirand [2012.11.14.0412 +0100]:
>> As Gentoo guys and some major kernel people are protesting about the
>> insanity Kay and Lennart have done to udev,
>
> I cannot help but notice that Kay and Lennart were both
> Gentoo-freaks when t
+++ Wookey [2012-06-27 20:04 +0100]:
> +++ Wookey [2012-01-19 14:32 +]:
> > +++ Neil Williams [2012-01-19 13:02 +]:
> > > On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 12:10:28 +
> > > Wookey wrote:
> > >
> > > > I've thought for a long time that a package like build-essential for
> > > > cross-building would
2012/11/14 Philip Ashmore
> simple format which, like xml, is human-readable
XML is not human-readable :-)
On 14/11/12 06:48, Chow Loong Jin wrote:
On 14/11/2012 13:43, Philip Ashmore wrote:
Hi there.
As someone who develops software for Debian I encounter situations where I have
to specify the same information multiple times, and when that information
changes I have to remember to update it in each
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Hector Oron
* Package name: bustle
Version : 0.4.1
Upstream Author : Will Thompson
* URL : http://www.willthompson.co.uk/bustle/
* License : LGPL-2.1+ and GPL-2+
Programming Lang: Haskell/C
Description : D-Bus ac
also sprach Thomas Goirand [2012.11.14.0412 +0100]:
> As Gentoo guys and some major kernel people are protesting about the
> insanity Kay and Lennart have done to udev,
I cannot help but notice that Kay and Lennart were both
Gentoo-freaks when they took on udev and at least I always
attributed mu
On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 9:29 AM, Fabian Greffrath wrote:
> Am 13.11.2012 16:45, schrieb Reinhard Tartler:
>
>> The problem is upstream and has been identified now. Reverting
>> upstream commit 468ea9d5b14f92fe61f47f034e67066f65163f5f seems to fix
>> the issue, albeit a better solution is currently
Am 13.11.2012 16:45, schrieb Reinhard Tartler:
The problem is upstream and has been identified now. Reverting
upstream commit 468ea9d5b14f92fe61f47f034e67066f65163f5f seems to fix
the issue, albeit a better solution is currently being worked on.
Good to know that you've succeeded to narrow down
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: "Marcin Kulisz (kuLa)"
* Package name: ec2debian-build-ami
Version : b72146d3git
Upstream Author : Eric Hammond and Anders Ingemann
* URL : https://github.com/andsens/ec2debian-build-ami
* License : (AL-2.0)
Programm
On 11/14/2012 11:25 AM, Michael Biebl wrote:
> So far this seems to be mostly talk and hot air.
It's clearly going to take some time to materialize into a more
definitive project, however, I don't think that's fair to say it's
only "talk and hot air" as I saw some Gentoo patches to
uncruft udev al
I have the same card and I can tell you that the nouveau driver is
broken with it. See the bug mentioned above:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=640464
According to point 6 of http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/TroubleShooting
do you tried building nouveau from the latest s
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