On Sun, July 14, 2013 21:19, Kevin Chadwick wrote:
my care for Linux is diminishing daily.
p.s. I haven't the time to talk about or even recollect a 20th of the
problems that systemd poses
P.s. whenever I hear someone talk about Linux and Modern it is simply
proving to show that commenter's
On 07/15/2013 03:20 AM, Marco d'Itri wrote:
On Jul 14, David Kalnischkies kalnischk...@gmail.com wrote:
But there is a difference between not used after its done as the project
proofed that it is not able to deliver something more valuable and
saying midway that whatever the student does, it
Le dimanche 14 juillet 2013 à 20:19 +0100, Kevin Chadwick a écrit :
I certainly wouldn't run systemd on any of our systems including
production systems or products and in fact could never run it on some
of our embedded products because it is simply too resource hungry.
If you have
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 2:56 AM, Ben Hutchings b...@decadent.org.uk wrote:
On Sun, 2013-07-14 at 13:09 +0200, David Kalnischkies wrote:
On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 10:57 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de wrote:
On 07/14/2013 06:45 AM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
These
Le Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 04:18:17PM +0800, Thomas Goirand a écrit :
If OpenRC goes up to the shape I expect, it will have a huge advantage
over systemd and Upstart: it will not be controversial, throwing away
non-Linux ports, and taking over the whole of the system. It will just
be an
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 06:02:34PM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:
cloud-init-0.7.2 $ wc -l systemd/* upstart/* sysvinit/*
17 systemd/cloud-config.service
10 systemd/cloud-config.target
17 systemd/cloud-final.service
16 systemd/cloud-init-local.service
17
On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 11:46 PM, Michael Stapelberg
stapelb...@debian.orgwrote:
Hi,
since some people might not read planet debian, here is a link to my
third blog post in a series of posts dealing with the results of the
Debian systemd survey:
Ondřej Surý ond...@sury.org writes:
Just a quick idea:
Can we (the mysterious somebody) write a drop-in simple dummy init.d script
which would take a(ny) systemd service file and run the daemon on
non-Linux-kernel systems?
This has been discussed several times, there was even a GSoC project
Hello List:
When the SONAME increments the associated binary library package has a new name,
so the SONAME suffix has to increment as well accordingly: for a library package
lambda, the binary library package could be renamed from liblambda0 to
liblambda1.
I thought that I could manage all of
2013/7/15 Jerome BENOIT g62993...@rezozer.net:
the former binary package
liblambda0 is not discarded by the new binary package liblambda1, neither in
Sid
nor at the upgrading stage with aptitude.
I guess that something is missing in `debian/control', any clue ?
I think this is intentional.
Dear Guys,
Holger Levsen hol...@layer-acht.org writes:
one which is at least installable with apt-get + sid sources. that's
still not the case, despite 684396 being announced here a year ago.
(Replying generally)
There seems to be some doubts concerning why #684396 has taken a whole
year
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Arto Jantunen vi...@debian.org wrote:
Ondřej Surý ond...@sury.org writes:
Just a quick idea:
Can we (the mysterious somebody) write a drop-in simple dummy init.d
script
which would take a(ny) systemd service file and run the daemon on
non-Linux-kernel
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 11:27:22AM +0200, Ondřej Surý wrote:
Just a quick idea:
Can we (the mysterious somebody) write a drop-in simple dummy init.d script
which would take a(ny) systemd service file and run the daemon on
non-Linux-kernel systems?
I proposed[1] this earlier. The environment
Le lundi 15 juillet 2013 à 16:18 +0800, Thomas Goirand a écrit :
If OpenRC goes up to the shape I expect, it will have a huge advantage
over systemd and Upstart: it will not be controversial, throwing away
non-Linux ports, and taking over the whole of the system. It will just
be an
Le dimanche 14 juillet 2013 à 11:55 -0700, Geoffrey Thomas a écrit :
And if it turns out that systemd is today necessary for Debian's
viability as a modern OS, there are ways for the project to make that
decision without being rude to folks who have been working on other
systems (and, of
On 07/15/2013 01:37 PM, heroxbd wrote:
I can visualize that within two months we will have a off-the-shelf
OpenRC package working with initscripts/sysvinit vanilla offering modern
features like cgroups, at users' choice.
Good, I'll take your word on that.
Adrian
--
.''`. John Paul Adrian
Please don't CC me, I read the list.
Ondřej Surý ond...@sury.org writes:
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Arto Jantunen vi...@debian.org wrote:
This has been discussed several times, there was even a GSoC project to
implement a systemd service - init script converter (essentially
providing
On 07/15/2013 08:07 AM, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Le lundi 15 juillet 2013 à 16:18 +0800, Thomas Goirand a écrit :
If OpenRC goes up to the shape I expect, it will have a huge
advantage over systemd and Upstart: it will not be controversial,
throwing away non-Linux ports, and taking over the
On 15-07-13 14:09, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Le dimanche 14 juillet 2013 à 11:55 -0700, Geoffrey Thomas a écrit :
And if it turns out that systemd is today necessary for Debian's
viability as a modern OS, there are ways for the project to make that
decision without being rude to folks who
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 03:32:42PM +0300, Arto Jantunen wrote:
In addition to that the wrapper also needs to be able to track the
processes started by the systemd service (the admin might want to stop
or restart services in addition to starting them), which systemd does by
using cgroups.
On 07/15/2013 03:00 PM, The Wanderer wrote:
My personal objections to systemd come down to the fact that I don't
trust its developers /maintainers. Part of that is bleedover from the
fact that I've so far had only poor experiences with pulseaudio
I haven't had any problems with PulseAudio for
On 15/07/13 14:38, Helmut Grohne wrote:
Indeed we are out of luck with Type=forking. In the presence of a decent
init system daemonizing is the job of the init system. It is uselessly
duplicated code. Let's rip that code out of daemons and turn them into
simple ones.
It does matter where
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Eugenio Cano-Manuel Mendoza eugenioca...@gmail.com
* Package name: libcore-cache-clojure
Version : 0.6.2
Upstream Author : Michael Fogus mefo...@gmail.com
* URL : https://github.com/clojure/core.cache
* License : EPL-1.0
On 07/15/2013 09:43 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
On 07/15/2013 03:00 PM, The Wanderer wrote:
My personal objections to systemd come down to the fact that I
don't trust its developers / maintainers. Part of that is bleedover
from the fact that I've so far had only poor experiences with
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 03:38:57PM +0200, Helmut Grohne wrote:
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 03:32:42PM +0300, Arto Jantunen wrote:
In addition to that the wrapper also needs to be able to track the
processes started by the systemd service (the admin might want to stop
or restart services in
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 03:14:43PM +0100, Simon McVittie wrote:
On 15/07/13 14:38, Helmut Grohne wrote:
Indeed we are out of luck with Type=forking. In the presence of a decent
init system daemonizing is the job of the init system. It is uselessly
duplicated code. Let's rip that code out of
On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 08:10:16PM +0200, David Kalnischkies wrote:
Last I heard, that was exactly systemd fanbase complain: that everyone
just complained without even trying it based on hearsay.
So, lets try leading by example, shall we?
There is no systemd fanbase. I am not favoring
On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 10:57:23AM +0200, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
You also wrote more or less that systemd is the only way to support
cgroups, while this is untrue. OpenRC at least has support for it (and
probably upstart too? I'm not sure...), and it also builds on FreeBSD
(not yet
On 07/15/2013 07:11 PM, Steve Langasek wrote:
Not sure where this idea comes from. upstart has never supported non-Linux
kernels; we're open to it being ported to other kernels, but prctl is a
minor detail for kernel compatibility compared with other, more significant
features that upstart
On 07/15/2013 06:54 PM, Steve Langasek wrote:
People aren't bothered by OpenRC because it might win, they're
bothered because its advocates fail to understand why they've
already lost before they've begun.
I fully agree on this with you! I cannot really imagine OpenRC to
be ever a viable
On 07/15/2013 05:02 PM, Charles Plessy wrote:
Le Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 04:18:17PM +0800, Thomas Goirand a écrit :
If OpenRC goes up to the shape I expect, it will have a huge advantage
over systemd and Upstart: it will not be controversial, throwing away
non-Linux ports, and taking over the
On 07/15/2013 04:32 PM, Josselin Mouette wrote:
And now people who want to stick with buggy shell scripts instead of
migrating to a much simpler, declarative mechanism.
Please point at a single person on any threads about init systems over
the last year who wishes that. I haven't see any. Did I
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 07:48:22PM +0200, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
On 07/15/2013 07:11 PM, Steve Langasek wrote:
Not sure where this idea comes from. upstart has never supported non-Linux
kernels; we're open to it being ported to other kernels, but prctl is a
minor detail for kernel
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 04:18:17PM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
If OpenRC goes up to the shape I expect, it will have a huge advantage
over systemd and Upstart: it will not be controversial,
That's not true at all.
throwing away non-Linux ports, and taking over the whole of the system.
It
This one time, at band camp, Roger Leigh said:
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 06:02:34PM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:
cloud-init-0.7.2 $ wc -l systemd/* upstart/* sysvinit/*
17 systemd/cloud-config.service
10 systemd/cloud-config.target
17 systemd/cloud-final.service
16
Hi,
I am sorry for starting yet another thread on systemd, but we feel this
particular post is important and should spread as widely as possible
(i.e. beyond just readers of planet debian):
http://people.debian.org/~stapelberg/2013/07/14/systemd-how-to-help.html
tl;dr: whatever you end up
On Sun, 14 Jul 2013, Russ Allbery wrote:
I've been administering UNIX systems professionally for 20 years, from
SunOS and ULTRIX through AIX, HP-UX, IRIX, Solaris, and Linux. In my
professional, *experienced* opinion, proper deployment of a modern init
system will make Debian considerably
Helmut Grohne hel...@subdivi.de writes:
By far the more severe issue is socket activation, because it removes
the need to spell out service dependencies. We cannot infer these
dependencies later on. Instead such a wrapper must implement socket
activation in order to work correctly. This is
On 07/15/2013 09:39 PM, Michael Stapelberg wrote:
http://people.debian.org/~stapelberg/2013/07/14/systemd-how-to-help.html
Thanks for the guidelines and the idea to coordinate future work!
This actually leads me to something I have been wondering for
some time: Are there already plans to
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh h...@debian.org writes:
How much of that improvement would be realised if we added a dependable,
declarative (i.e. config-based instead of shell-script-based) service
configuration support to sysvinit ?
Some, mostly on the maintenance side. I think the major
On 07/15/2013 09:50 PM, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
How much of that improvement would be realised if we added a dependable,
declarative (i.e. config-based instead of shell-script-based) service
configuration support to sysvinit ?
You can't trivially add these features to sysvinit
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh h...@debian.org writes:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2013, Russ Allbery wrote:
I've been administering UNIX systems professionally for 20 years,
from SunOS and ULTRIX through AIX, HP-UX, IRIX, Solaris, and Linux.
In my professional, *experienced* opinion, proper deployment of a
Am 15.07.2013 22:04, schrieb John Paul Adrian Glaubitz:
On 07/15/2013 09:39 PM, Michael Stapelberg wrote:
http://people.debian.org/~stapelberg/2013/07/14/systemd-how-to-help.html
Thanks for the guidelines and the idea to coordinate future work!
This actually leads me to something I have
On 07/16/2013 01:03 AM, Michael Biebl wrote:
Sorry that this takes a bit longer then expected, but packages based on
v204 are in preparation and expect them soonish.
Thanks for the update! Rock on! :)
Adrian
--
.''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' : Debian Developer - glaub...@debian.org
On 07/16/2013 01:50 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
On 07/15/2013 06:54 PM, Steve Langasek wrote:
People aren't bothered by OpenRC because it might win, they're
bothered because its advocates fail to understand why they've
already lost before they've begun.
I fully agree on this with
On 07/16/2013 02:19 AM, Steve Langasek wrote:
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 04:18:17PM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
If OpenRC goes up to the shape I expect, it will have a huge advantage
over systemd and Upstart: it will not be controversial,
That's not true at all.
throwing away non-Linux
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Le dimanche 14 juillet 2013 à 11:55 -0700, Geoffrey Thomas a écrit :
And if it turns out that systemd is today necessary for Debian's
viability as a modern OS, there are ways for the project to make that
decision without being rude to folks who have
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 04:49:19AM +0900, heroxbd wrote:
Helmut Grohne hel...@subdivi.de writes:
By far the more severe issue is socket activation, because it removes
the need to spell out service dependencies. We cannot infer these
dependencies later on. Instead such a wrapper must
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* Update to SVN 20130715
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Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 16:51:02 +
Source: axiom
Binary: axiom axiom-source axiom-test axiom-doc axiom-databases axiom-tex
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Architecture: source all amd64
Version:
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Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 20:40:48 +0200
Source: libregexp-debugger-perl
Binary: libregexp-debugger-perl
Architecture: source all
Version: 0.001014-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Debian Perl Group
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Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 20:08:45 +0200
Source: kdbg
Binary: kdbg
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 2.5.3-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Ana Beatriz Guerrero Lopez a...@debian.org
Changed-By: Ana Beatriz Guerrero Lopez
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Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2013 19:52:56 +0200
Source: gcc-msp430
Binary: gcc-msp430
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 4.6.3~mspgcc-20120406-5
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Luca Bruno lu...@debian.org
Changed-By: Luca Bruno
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Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 20:35:03 +
Source: gcl
Binary: gcl gcl-doc
Architecture: source all amd64
Version: 2.6.7+dfsga-30
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: high
Maintainer: Camm Maguire c...@debian.org
Changed-By: Camm Maguire
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Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 22:16:12 +0200
Source: libbsd-resource-perl
Binary: libbsd-resource-perl
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 1.2907-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Debian Perl Group
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Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 22:07:20 +0200
Source: libtest-checkdeps-perl
Binary: libtest-checkdeps-perl
Architecture: source all
Version: 0.006-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Debian Perl Group
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Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 21:33:38 +0200
Source: libhtml-html5-parser-perl
Binary: libhtml-html5-parser-perl
Architecture: source all
Version: 0.301-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Debian Perl Group
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Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 23:06:11 +0200
Source: lightproof
Binary: libreoffice-lightproof-en libreoffice-lightproof-hu
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Architecture: source all
Version: 1.5+git20121204-4
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
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Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 23:00:00 +0200
Source: nss-pam-ldapd
Binary: nslcd pynslcd libnss-ldapd libpam-ldapd nslcd-utils
Architecture: source i386 all
Version: 0.9.0-2
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Arthur de Jong
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Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 22:46:45 +0200
Source: nodau
Binary: nodau
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 0.3.7-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Salvatore Bonaccorso car...@debian.org
Changed-By: Salvatore Bonaccorso
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Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 19:14:24 +0200
Source: libgtkada
Binary: libgtkada2.24.1-dev libgnomeada2.24.1-dev libgtkglada2.24.1-dev
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libgtkglada2.24.1
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Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2013 17:12:28 +0200
Source: openjdk-7
Binary: openjdk-7-jdk openjdk-7-jre-headless openjdk-7-jre openjdk-7-jre-lib
openjdk-7-demo openjdk-7-source openjdk-7-doc openjdk-7-dbg icedtea-7-jre-jamvm
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Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 23:08:34 +0200
Source: remind
Binary: remind tkremind
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 03.01.13-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Ana Beatriz Guerrero Lopez a...@debian.org
Changed-By: Ana
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Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 12:16:00 -0300
Source: qtwebkit-opensource-src
Binary: libqt5webkit5-dev libqt5webkit5 libqt5webkit5-qmlwebkitplugin
libqt5webkit5-dbg qtwebkit5-doc qtwebkit5-doc-html
Architecture: source amd64 all
Version:
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Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 22:46:27 +0200
Source: tintin++
Binary: tintin++
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 2.00.9-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Ana Beatriz Guerrero Lopez a...@debian.org
Changed-By: Ana Beatriz
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Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 23:31:05 +0200
Source: fuse4bsd
Binary: fuse4bsd fuse4bsd-dkms
Architecture: source kfreebsd-amd64 all
Version: 0.3.9~pre1.20080208-7
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: GNU/kFreeBSD Maintainers
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Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 15:44:45 -0500
Source: hydra
Binary: hydra hydra-gtk
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 7.4.2-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Julián Moreno Patiño jul...@debian.org
Changed-By: Julián Moreno
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