Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-09 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Dec 8, 2003, at 07:14, Julian Mehnle wrote: Apart from that, as soon as the use of IPv6 broadens, dynamically assigned IP addresses will diminish. Stateless autoconfig + privacy extensions means quite the opposite is likely to occur.

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-09 Thread Tom
On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 01:12:13AM +, Colin Watson wrote: > . Could you please try > to keep debian-devel posts to well-thought-out [1] technical content, Sure. I'd also ask everyone to keep their anti-American, anti-Bush SIGs and random comments out of both lists. I have acted like a jack

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-09 Thread Tom
On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 11:45:58PM +1100, Russell Coker wrote: > > As for acting like a Jackass, the Johnny Knoxville and his colleagues are > very > talented entertainers who work hard. I wouldn't compare them to you in any > way. Oh, I dunno. I got *your* attention. But chill the hell out

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-09 Thread Russell Coker
On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 22:52, Tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 01:12:13AM +, Colin Watson wrote: > > . Could you please try > > to keep debian-devel posts to well-thought-out [1] technical content, > > Sure. I'd also ask everyone to keep their anti-American, anti-Bush SIGs

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-08 Thread Colin Watson
On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 01:28:20PM +1100, Russell Coker wrote: > Another problem is that host keys require SUID ssh client in the > default configuration. This hasn't been true since OpenSSH 3.3, and therefore since before woody. See ssh-keysign(8). openssh (1:3.3p1-0.0woody1) testing-security; u

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-08 Thread Colin Watson
On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 03:29:02PM -0800, Tom wrote: > Just rambling... I'm sure there's tons of holes in what I just said. All this rambling is getting pretty damn tedious as I try to read through two weeks' worth of debian-devel backlog. Could you please try to keep debian-devel posts to well-th

RE: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-08 Thread Julian Mehnle
Russell Coker wrote: > On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 23:14, "Julian Mehnle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > You cannot verify the IP address *exactly*, but you can verify > > whether the IP address lies within a range. Dial-up users could at > > least register a certain address range, so as to vastly mitigate

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-08 Thread Russell Coker
On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 23:14, "Julian Mehnle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > One problem with this is developer's machines that are on dial-up > > Internet connections. ÂIn the case of such machines you can verify the > > host key but not the IP address. > > You cannot verify the IP address *exactly*,

RE: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-08 Thread Julian Mehnle
Russell Coker wrote: > On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 13:16, Patrick Ouellette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Instead of a smartcard/token/whatever physical device, this incident > > could possibly have been thwarted by requiring developers to > > pre-register their machine with the project (using ssh host key

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-08 Thread Steinar H. Gunderson
On Sun, Dec 07, 2003 at 09:16:58PM -0500, Patrick Ouellette wrote: > Instead of a smartcard/token/whatever physical device, this incident > could possibly have been thwarted by requiring developers to pre-register > their machine with the project (using ssh host key for example). The > attacker wo

Authentication enhancements (was Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call)

2003-12-07 Thread Patrick Ouellette
On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 01:28:20PM +1100, Russell Coker wrote: > > But this still leaves the issue of how to deal with dial-up machines. Even > if > we restrict connections to a single ISP as often dial-up machines are not > used with multiple machines, this still isn't necessarily much good,

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-07 Thread Russell Coker
On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 13:16, Patrick Ouellette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 11:55:26AM -0800, Tom wrote: > > instance is the hacker sniffed the password, and then logged on to > > Debian's servers later at his leisure from a different PC. With a > > Instead of a smartcard/toke

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-07 Thread Patrick Ouellette
On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 11:55:26AM -0800, Tom wrote: > instance is the hacker sniffed the password, and then logged on to > Debian's servers later at his leisure from a different PC. With a Instead of a smartcard/token/whatever physical device, this incident could possibly have been thwarted by

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-04 Thread Tom
On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 06:13:49PM -0500, Matt Zimmerman wrote: > > Not really; he just has to set things up ahead of time. This is like > claiming the attacker has to be present in order to sniff your password from > a telnet session (he doesn't; he just has to have been around at any time > bef

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-04 Thread Matt Zimmerman
On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 11:55:26AM -0800, Tom wrote: > Yes, but the reason it would have been efficiacious in this *particular* > instance is the hacker sniffed the password, and then logged on to > Debian's servers later at his leisure from a different PC. With a > smartcard, he would have had t

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-04 Thread Tom
On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 02:23:54PM -0500, Matt Zimmerman wrote: > On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 05:19:22PM -0800, Tom wrote: > You must be joking. If the developer's system is compromised, and he logs > into another system after that time, that system can be easily compromised > also. Yes, but the rea

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-04 Thread Matt Zimmerman
On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 05:19:22PM -0800, Tom wrote: > Smartcards would have avoided the Debian compromise: merely having a > compromised DD box would have prevented bad guy from getting on the box. > > It's all about layers of defense. > > I think the DD's should seriously think about requirin

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-03 Thread Brian May
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 02:57:11AM +0100, Bernd Eckenfels wrote: > On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 10:54:24AM +1000, Andrew Pollock wrote: > > The only way to have avoided this kernel vulnerability from day-0 of > > discovery/fix release would have been to be constantly upgrading to > > pre-release kernels

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-03 Thread Bernd Eckenfels
On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 10:18:44AM +1100, Russell Coker wrote: > > > What about RSA tokens? This solution does not require any special > > > hardware to connect on the client side. > > This also means it does not provide any additional security, besides the > > costs. > What makes you think that?

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-03 Thread Artur R. Czechowski
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 11:42:06PM +0100, Bernd Eckenfels wrote: > On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 10:34:13AM +0100, Artur R. Czechowski wrote: > > What about RSA tokens? This solution does not require any special hardware > > to connect on the client side. > This also means it does not provide any additio

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-03 Thread Russell Coker
On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:42, Bernd Eckenfels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 10:34:13AM +0100, Artur R. Czechowski wrote: > > What about RSA tokens? This solution does not require any special > > hardware to connect on the client side. > > This also means it does not provide any a

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-03 Thread Russell Coker
On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 05:02, Andreas Schuldei <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > * Russell Coker ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [031203 04:03]: > > I have sent a message to Werner asking if the GPG smart-card device could > > be re-implemented with a USB interface. I think that a USB dongle with > > GPG technology wo

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-03 Thread Bernd Eckenfels
On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 12:03:52AM +1100, Russell Coker wrote: > For an initial order of 1200 units and the potential for other larger orders > they may reconsider this. There are some more tokens, which are baed on the open X9.9 DES protcol and not the secret SecureID stuff. Greetings Bernd --

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-03 Thread Bernd Eckenfels
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 10:34:13AM +0100, Artur R. Czechowski wrote: > What about RSA tokens? This solution does not require any special hardware > to connect on the client side. This also means it does not provide any additional security, besides the costs. Greetings Bernd -- (OO) -- [EM

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-03 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 23:46:45 +, Geoff Richards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 01:28:28PM -0800, Tom wrote: >> I read all the words but took a completely different meaning :-) >> I'm from the South, we have different speech patterns... > South of where? The Mason-

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-03 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 08:30:55 +0100, Bernd Eckenfels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > Hehe, well I am sorry. I had the impression 2.4.23 was older. Should > have checked my facts. > BTW: I do have checked the kernel version of the major distros, all > ship newer kernels than debian (if you look at the

RE: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-03 Thread Julian Mehnle
Andreas Schuldei wrote: > * Russell Coker ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [031203 04:03]: > > I have sent a message to Werner asking if the GPG smart-card device > > could be re-implemented with a USB interface. I think that a USB > > dongle with GPG technology would be a good option as most developer's > > m

Re: OT: Smartcards and Physical Security [Was: Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call]

2003-12-03 Thread Darren Salt
I demand that Tom may or may not have written... > On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 08:45:49AM -0600, Steve Langasek wrote: >> Share the crack. > In my experience kids in college and right out tend to freak out over the > thought of having to spend a few dollars of disposable income, because they > don't

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-03 Thread Andreas Schuldei
* Russell Coker ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [031203 04:03]: > I have sent a message to Werner asking if the GPG smart-card device could be > re-implemented with a USB interface. I think that a USB dongle with GPG > technology would be a good option as most developer's machines already have > USB suppor

Re: OT: Smartcards and Physical Security [Was: Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call]

2003-12-03 Thread Tom
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 09:06:07AM -0600, Graham Wilson wrote: > > So you've aided telemarketers and worked for Microsoft? Is your last > name Darkness, middle name Prince of? Satan fell because he wanted to know. So do I. I'm a contrarian. I believe the opposite of whatever I'm confronted wit

Re: OT: Smartcards and Physical Security [Was: Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call]

2003-12-03 Thread Graham Wilson
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 05:42:20AM -0800, Tom wrote: > Let me tell you a story about a job I had one time: I worked for a guy > (in his basement -- don't ask) who bought your personal credit card data > and other publicly available information. He would pay about $10,000 or > $15,000 for lists

Re: OT: Smartcards and Physical Security [Was: Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call]

2003-12-03 Thread Tom
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 08:45:49AM -0600, Steve Langasek wrote: > > Share the crack. In my experience kids in college and right out tend to freak out over the thought of having to spend a few dollars of disposable income, because they don't have any :-) Hey, laugh if you want, most organizatio

Re: OT: Smartcards and Physical Security [Was: Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call]

2003-12-03 Thread Steve Langasek
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 01:24:50AM -0800, Tom wrote: > On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 01:16:39AM -0800, Tom wrote: > > > > If something could have prevented something that actually happened, I > > say go for it. > Oh, one last thing: each DD should pay for the device him/her self and > should be requi

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-03 Thread Marc Haber
On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 00:19:36 +1100, Hamish Moffatt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 01:06:08PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote: >> I seriously doubt that the server-side software is DFSG-free. The only >> Linux Agent that is available from rsa.com is for RedHat 7.3, and I >> would be asto

Re: OT: Smartcards and Physical Security [Was: Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call]

2003-12-03 Thread Tom
On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 12:20:57AM +1100, Hamish Moffatt wrote: > > How about including your full name somewhere in your posts too then? > I find it a bit off-putting to discuss security with someone who's > obscuring their identity. Ha Ha Ha what a joke. I don't want to be googled for all etern

Re: OT: Smartcards and Physical Security [Was: Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call]

2003-12-03 Thread Hamish Moffatt
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 01:16:39AM -0800, Tom wrote: > On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 01:03:16AM -0800, Don Armstrong wrote: > > [NB: I wanted to take this OT discussion off [EMAIL PROTECTED] and into > > private > > mail, but your e-mail address was munged in some sort of anti-spam > > measure, and not

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-03 Thread Hamish Moffatt
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 01:06:08PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote: > On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 22:27:39 +1100, Hamish Moffatt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >The RSA SecurID tokens are a bit smarter than that; the output for a > >given input changes every minute. My employer uses them for remote > >access to the

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-03 Thread Russell Coker
On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 23:06, Marc Haber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >I have no idea what they cost. Also the newest ones are not exactly fit > >for carrying around in your wallet. They last 3 years on internal > >batteries. > > I seriously doubt that the server-side software is DFSG-free. The only >

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-03 Thread Marc Haber
On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 22:27:39 +1100, Hamish Moffatt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >The RSA SecurID tokens are a bit smarter than that; the output for a >given input changes every minute. My employer uses them for remote >access to their intranet; you have a fixed pin number which you enter >into the car

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-03 Thread Hamish Moffatt
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 12:06:33PM +0100, Artur R. Czechowski wrote: > > What is a "RSA token"? > Device used in some internet banks. You have a device, which has only > chipset, digital pad with on/off switch and display, all embedded in small > case. Authentication is made using C/R algorithm: yo

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-03 Thread Tom
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 12:10:28PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > > Are you going to pay for all those smartcards plus their readers? > Including any smartcards for possible future DD's? > > If not, I suggest we forget about this, as it won't be feasible. I don't think the USB models cost that

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-03 Thread Tom
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 12:06:33PM +0100, Artur R. Czechowski wrote: > > What is a "RSA token"? > Device used in some internet banks. You have a device, which has only > chipset, digital pad with on/off switch and display, all embedded in small > case. Authentication is made using C/R algorithm: yo

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-03 Thread Wouter Verhelst
On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 05:19:22PM -0800, Tom wrote: > On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 10:54:24AM +1000, Andrew Pollock wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 11:17:19AM +1100, Russell Coker wrote: > > > > > The only way to have avoided this kernel vulnerability from day-0 of > > discovery/fix release would

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-03 Thread Artur R. Czechowski
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 09:49:21PM +1100, Russell Coker wrote: > On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 20:34, "Artur R. Czechowski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 02:00:51PM +1100, Russell Coker wrote: > > > I agree that smartcards would help a lot. However as has been previously > > > sugges

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-03 Thread Russell Coker
On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 20:34, "Artur R. Czechowski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 02:00:51PM +1100, Russell Coker wrote: > > I agree that smartcards would help a lot. However as has been previously > > suggested the cost of 1200+ smart-card readers is probably prohibitive. > > W

Re: OT: Smartcards and Physical Security [Was: Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call]

2003-12-03 Thread Don Armstrong
On Wed, 03 Dec 2003, Tom wrote: > each DD should pay for the device him/her self and should be required > to fly to meet wherever they can pick them up. Why do you assume > somebody has to pay for everything? What's wrong with bearing some > of the costs yourself? Could it possibly be because eq

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-03 Thread Artur R. Czechowski
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 02:00:51PM +1100, Russell Coker wrote: > I agree that smartcards would help a lot. However as has been previously > suggested the cost of 1200+ smart-card readers is probably prohibitive. What about RSA tokens? This solution does not require any special hardware to connect

Re: OT: Smartcards and Physical Security [Was: Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call]

2003-12-03 Thread Tom
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 01:16:39AM -0800, Tom wrote: > > If something could have prevented something that actually happened, I > say go for it. Oh, one last thing: each DD should pay for the device him/her self and should be required to fly to meet wherever they can pick them up. Why do you a

Re: OT: Smartcards and Physical Security [Was: Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call]

2003-12-03 Thread Tom
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 01:03:16AM -0800, Don Armstrong wrote: > [NB: I wanted to take this OT discussion off [EMAIL PROTECTED] and into > private > mail, but your e-mail address was munged in some sort of anti-spam > measure, and not trivially un-mungeable. Please consider providing > information

Re: OT: Smartcards and Physical Security [Was: Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call]

2003-12-03 Thread Don Armstrong
[NB: I wanted to take this OT discussion off [EMAIL PROTECTED] and into private mail, but your e-mail address was munged in some sort of anti-spam measure, and not trivially un-mungeable. Please consider providing information on how to demunge it in some X- header, or not using munging at all.] On

Re: OT: Smartcards and Physical Security [Was: Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call]

2003-12-03 Thread Tom
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 12:20:59AM -0800, Don Armstrong wrote: > On Tue, 02 Dec 2003, Tom wrote: > > Yes but the attacker did not "steal" the DD's computer. He rooted it > > remotely. > > So the machine is rooted remotely, the DD logs into a debian box even > using our new fangled smart cards, an

Re: OT: Smartcards and Physical Security [Was: Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call]

2003-12-03 Thread Don Armstrong
On Tue, 02 Dec 2003, Tom wrote: > Yes but the attacker did not "steal" the DD's computer. He rooted it > remotely. So the machine is rooted remotely, the DD logs into a debian box even using our new fangled smart cards, and the attacker still can control the connection. In this particular intrus

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-03 Thread Graham Wilson
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 02:57:11AM +0100, Bernd Eckenfels wrote: > On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 10:54:24AM +1000, Andrew Pollock wrote: > > The only way to have avoided this kernel vulnerability from day-0 of > > discovery/fix release would have been to be constantly upgrading to > > pre-release kernels

Re: OT: Smartcards and Physical Security [Was: Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call]

2003-12-03 Thread Tom
On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 05:34:05PM -0800, Don Armstrong wrote: > On Tue, 02 Dec 2003, Tom wrote: > > I think the DD's should seriously think about requiring smartcards. > > It would have prevented the proxmiate cause of our recent troubles. > > Smartcards are not a magical panacea either. The prob

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-03 Thread Bernd Eckenfels
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 01:54:22PM +1100, Matthew Palmer wrote: > >Nov 28 22:39 Linux 2.4.23 released > > ^ > > Bernd is correct, though - if the machines had been running 2.4.23, they > wouldn't have been vulnerable. The fact that it was impossible to

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-03 Thread Bernd Eckenfels
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 02:11:59PM +1100, Russell Coker wrote: > Every DD needs to have immediate access to servers running each of the > supported architectures. Yes of course. But this does not mean they have to have access to infrastructure of the project. A box for a DD to debug and test the

Re: OT: Smartcards and Physical Security [Was: Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call]

2003-12-02 Thread Russell Coker
On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 12:34, Don Armstrong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Smartcards are not a magical panacea either. True. > The problems associated > with them aren't too terribly different from those associated with > keys or other forms of physical security, notably, that they can be > stolen, or

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-02 Thread Matthew Palmer
On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 08:47:10PM -0600, Steve Langasek wrote: > On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 02:57:11AM +0100, Bernd Eckenfels wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 10:54:24AM +1000, Andrew Pollock wrote: > > > The only way to have avoided this kernel vulnerability from day-0 of > > > discovery/fix relea

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-02 Thread Russell Coker
On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:02, Bernd Eckenfels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Even if it is painful to decide: more priveledges to DDs on a need-to-have > base. Every DD needs to have immediate access to servers running each of the supported architectures. I use mainly i386. If I have to jump through

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-02 Thread Russell Coker
On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 12:19, Tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Smartcards would have avoided the Debian compromise: merely having a > compromised DD box would have prevented bad guy from getting on the box. > > It's all about layers of defense. > > I think the DD's should seriously think about requirin

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-02 Thread Steve Langasek
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 02:57:11AM +0100, Bernd Eckenfels wrote: > On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 10:54:24AM +1000, Andrew Pollock wrote: > > The only way to have avoided this kernel vulnerability from day-0 of > > discovery/fix release would have been to be constantly upgrading to > > pre-release kernels

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-02 Thread Bernd Eckenfels
On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 05:19:22PM -0800, Tom wrote: > I think the DD's should seriously think about requiring smartcards. It > would have prevented the proxmiate cause of our recent troubles. No, we have to deal with a large population of untrusted individuals. Even if we can keep outsiders out

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-02 Thread Bernd Eckenfels
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 10:54:24AM +1000, Andrew Pollock wrote: > The only way to have avoided this kernel vulnerability from day-0 of > discovery/fix release would have been to be constantly upgrading to > pre-release kernels. Yes but also the debian servers would not have been vulnerable if they

OT: Smartcards and Physical Security [Was: Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call]

2003-12-02 Thread Don Armstrong
On Tue, 02 Dec 2003, Tom wrote: > I think the DD's should seriously think about requiring smartcards. > It would have prevented the proxmiate cause of our recent troubles. Smartcards are not a magical panacea either. The problems associated with them aren't too terribly different from those associ

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-02 Thread Tom
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 10:54:24AM +1000, Andrew Pollock wrote: > On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 11:17:19AM +1100, Russell Coker wrote: > > The only way to have avoided this kernel vulnerability from day-0 of > discovery/fix release would have been to be constantly upgrading to > pre-release kernels. >

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-02 Thread Andrew Pollock
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 11:17:19AM +1100, Russell Coker wrote: > Of course someone could look at the MS fixes and do some decompilation for a > similar result. Sure it would be more difficult to analyse the assembler > code produced from decompilation than to analyse C source, but OTOH there is

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-02 Thread Tom
On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 11:46:45PM +, Geoff Richards wrote: > > South of where? USA. North Carolina. Not South Carolina. Remember that. Redhat is in North Carolina. I always wonder if those mascara-wearing Cure-listening long-haired Linux skater punks ever get into trouble out in thos

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-02 Thread Russell Coker
On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:20, Andrew Pollock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What bugs the hell out of me is that people with nothing better to do with > their time can sit on the lkml and watch what's getting fixed, and put more > analysis into individual fixes than the kernel maintainers themselves can,

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-02 Thread Geoff Richards
On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 01:28:28PM -0800, Tom wrote: > On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 08:51:50PM +0100, Andreas Rottmann wrote: > > Tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 11:06:44PM +0800, Isaac To wrote: > > >> rather far from changing anything in the kernel memory. Andreas i

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-02 Thread Andrew Pollock
On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 10:08:03AM +0100, Andreas Metzler wrote: > > Apparently nobody knew it was comparable to ptrace, it looked like a > simple bugfix and not like a local root exploit. > What bugs the hell out of me is that people with nothing better to do with their time can sit on the lkml

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-02 Thread Frederik Dannemare
Henning Makholm wrote: Scripsit Tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 11:06:44PM +0800, Isaac To wrote: rather far from changing anything in the kernel memory. Andreas is definitely right that the hole doesn't look like that it is that dangerous. If it wasn't a big deal we wouldn't be

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-02 Thread Tom
On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 08:51:50PM +0100, Andreas Rottmann wrote: > Tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 11:06:44PM +0800, Isaac To wrote: > >> rather far from changing anything in the kernel memory. Andreas is > >> definitely right that the hole doesn't look like that it

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-02 Thread Andreas Rottmann
Tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 11:06:44PM +0800, Isaac To wrote: >> rather far from changing anything in the kernel memory. Andreas is >> definitely right that the hole doesn't look like that it is that dangerous. > [snip] > > If it wasn't a big deal we wouldn't be talk

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-02 Thread Jens Bech Madsen
On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 17:31, Tom wrote: > On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 11:06:44PM +0800, Isaac To wrote: > > rather far from changing anything in the kernel memory. Andreas is > > definitely right that the hole doesn't look like that it is that dangerous. > > It messed up your life for a couple weeks.

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-02 Thread Henning Makholm
Scripsit Tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 11:06:44PM +0800, Isaac To wrote: > > rather far from changing anything in the kernel memory. Andreas is > > definitely right that the hole doesn't look like that it is that dangerous. > If it wasn't a big deal we wouldn't be talking abo

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-02 Thread Tom
On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 11:06:44PM +0800, Isaac To wrote: > rather far from changing anything in the kernel memory. Andreas is > definitely right that the hole doesn't look like that it is that dangerous. It messed up your life for a couple weeks. Jesus, it's not the end of the world, but that's

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-02 Thread Isaac To
> "Jonathan" == Jonathan Dowland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jonathan> On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 12:08:17PM +0100, Andreas Metzler Jonathan> wrote: >> Afaik: 2.4.23 contains literally 100s of changes, one of these was a >> small change to do_brk(), which looked like a normal non-

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-02 Thread Jonathan Dowland
On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 12:08:17PM +0100, Andreas Metzler wrote: > Afaik: 2.4.23 contains literally 100s of changes, one of these was a > small change to do_brk(), which looked like a normal non-critical > bugfix to everybody involved. Some time later Debian was hacked and > backtracing how the i

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-02 Thread Andreas Metzler
Tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 10:08:03AM +0100, Andreas Metzler wrote: >> Apparently nobody knew it was comparable to ptrace, it looked like a >> simple bugfix and not like a local root exploit. > Well, I just downloaded 2.4.23 from kernel.org and installed it. You cou

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-02 Thread Tom
On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 10:08:03AM +0100, Andreas Metzler wrote: > > Apparently nobody knew it was comparable to ptrace, it looked like a > simple bugfix and not like a local root exploit. > Well, I just downloaded 2.4.23 from kernel.org and installed it. [obGrumble] I never got hit by any of t

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-02 Thread Andreas Metzler
Frederik Dannemare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > just curious: any particular reason why we didn't see a backport any sooner > of > the integer overflow in the brk system call (see recent announcement by > Wichert Akkerman: > http://lists.debian.org/debian-security-announce/debian-security-annou

Re: Backport of the integer overflow in the brk system call

2003-12-01 Thread Frederik Dannemare
Frederik Dannemare wrote: Hi everybody, just curious: any particular reason why we didn't see a backport any sooner of the integer overflow in the brk system call (see recent announcement by Wichert Akkerman: http://lists.debian.org/debian-security-announce/debian-security-announce-2003/msg00212