On Wed, Apr 11, 2007 at 06:23:32PM +0100, Luis Matos wrote:
Qua, 2007-04-11 às 17:33 +0200, Robert Millan escreveu:
I don't know what the critical mass of Linux users is that generates
interest for Linux among software vendors. We seem to be far from
it.
Yes, but Microsoft is
On Wed, Apr 11, 2007 at 10:55:36PM +0200, Michael Banck wrote:
On Wed, Apr 11, 2007 at 02:13:07PM -0400, Matthias Julius wrote:
I don't think it needs win64-only games.
Please remember that this is debian-devel and not some general
discussion list.
This thread has been moved from
On Wed, Apr 11, 2007 at 02:13:07PM -0400, Matthias Julius wrote:
I don't think it needs win64-only games. It just needs games that run
with a 10% higher frame rate on win64 to create demand. Or on
Linux-amd64.
Not even that. The hype factor is enough to create demand, but this kind of
On 4/12/07, Robert Millan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This thread has been moved from debian-release already.
That's because debian-release is not a discussion list, it's only for
coordination of the release.
We're discussing a question that could affect decisions on the lenny release
On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 03:16:55PM -0300, Margarita Manterola wrote:
We're discussing a question that could affect decisions on the lenny
release schedule.
The release schedule will not be affected by whatever ESR says in his
essays.
Why does the essay's authorship matter?
Debian
[Luis Matos]
CATIA has unix versions ... i don't really know if they will ever
have linux versions.
I'd be pretty surprised if they ever did. The CATIA 4 architecture
would have fit Linux very well, if Dassault had seen a market for it
back then (it was based on Motif, OpenGL and a huge
On Tue, Apr 10, 2007 at 04:43:09PM -0400, Matthias Julius wrote:
Robert Millan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
If x86_64-linux-gnu is stablished as the new reference api, well, they'll
be forced to.
Reference for what? Is there any software vendor porting his
applications to 64bit Linux
Qua, 2007-04-11 às 17:33 +0200, Robert Millan escreveu:
I don't know what the critical mass of Linux users is that generates
interest for Linux among software vendors. We seem to be far from
it.
Yes, but Microsoft is much farther. I wouldn't be surprised if our
64-bit
userbase
On Tue, Apr 10, 2007 at 04:36:06PM +0100, Luis Matos wrote:
Maybe software vendors will look at linux for more power for less
hardware, using 64 bit solution.
Talking about CAD and CAM, for example, they need too much of power,
even if machines are currently enought.
Having linux to
On Tue, Apr 10, 2007 at 12:25:33PM -0400, Matthias Julius wrote:
64bit Linux has been available since years. Pro/E is available for
32bit RHEL only. UGS NX was to be ported to Linux as well, but I
couldn't find any information on their website. It seems like you
have to log in first and you
On Tue, Apr 10, 2007 at 11:07:09PM +0100, Luis Matos wrote:
Most people and main developpers only know windows' tools for
development, that's for sure.
I am currently developping an industrial application for windows and
linux, because i forced the use of gtk (so i can develop and run it on
Qua, 2007-04-11 às 13:12 -0400, Lennart Sorensen escreveu:
I can't stand visual studio. It drives me nuts. It makes it so hard
to
figure out what is going on and wants to get in the way of everything.
Give me plain simple makefiles and source code files I can edit
(preferably with vim) and
Robert Millan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Tue, Apr 10, 2007 at 04:43:09PM -0400, Matthias Julius wrote:
Robert Millan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
If x86_64-linux-gnu is stablished as the new reference api, well, they'll
be forced to.
Reference for what? Is there any software vendor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Lennart Sorensen) writes:
Autodesk is fortunately slowly becoming less relevant as much better
programs are eating away at their market share. Moving to directx
sounds crazy given the pro level graphics cards have certified opengl
drivers, not directx drivers. They really
On Wed, Apr 11, 2007 at 02:55:53PM -0400, Matthias Julius wrote:
Inventor wouldn't be that bad of a program if it was more stable.
I have never been a fan of autodesk's interfaces in general, although I
must admit I have mostly ignored them for the last few years now so who
knows they may have
On Wed, Apr 11, 2007 at 02:13:07PM -0400, Matthias Julius wrote:
I don't think it needs win64-only games.
Please remember that this is debian-devel and not some general
discussion list.
thanks,
Michael
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble?
On Wed, Apr 11, 2007 at 08:01:09PM +0100, Luis Matos wrote:
Visual Studio makes the job for non-professional programmers a pretty
good job.
Please remember that this is debian-devel and not some general
discussion forum.
thanks,
Michael
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with
On Wed, 2007-04-11 at 22:55 +0200, Michael Banck wrote:
On Wed, Apr 11, 2007 at 02:13:07PM -0400, Matthias Julius wrote:
I don't think it needs win64-only games.
Please remember that this is debian-devel and not some general
discussion list.
HA, that is going in the context is everything
interfaces with such closed-source software is of some relevance to
all of us who want to see Debian thrive, even if we choose not to use
that software ourselves.
Helping closed source software developers is not an itch I
feel
like scratching. But if other people want to spend
On Tue, Apr 10, 2007 at 12:00:08AM -0700, Sean Perry wrote:
I haven't seen much Debian in the last 6 years in the commercial
world. RH rules that roost. If people have chosen closed source, then
they likely are also paying for an enterprise edition of their free
OS too. Linux == Redhat
On 4/10/07, Jean-Christophe Dubacq [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tue, Apr 10, 2007 at 12:00:08AM -0700, Sean Perry wrote:
I haven't seen much Debian in the last 6 years in the commercial
world. RH rules that roost. If people have chosen closed source, then
they likely are also paying for an
On Tue, Apr 10, 2007 at 11:40:27AM +0200, Tshepang Lekhonkhobe wrote:
On 4/10/07, Jean-Christophe Dubacq [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
On Tue, Apr 10, 2007 at 12:00:08AM -0700, Sean Perry wrote:
I haven't seen much Debian in the last 6 years in the commercial
world. RH rules that roost. If
On 4/10/07, Jean-Christophe Dubacq [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tue, Apr 10, 2007 at 11:40:27AM +0200, Tshepang Lekhonkhobe wrote:
On 4/10/07, Jean-Christophe Dubacq [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I work in a science lab and can tell you that even though we do have
commercial software (Matlab,
On Tuesday 10 April 2007 07:43, Tshepang Lekhonkhobe wrote:
I may have exaggerated by saying 20 years, but I will not settle for
less than 10. And we need those anyway to compare results obtained by
one software against the other.
This is interesting. I often hear people citing pros and
Ter, 2007-04-10 às 08:28 -0600, Warren Turkal escreveu:
On Tuesday 10 April 2007 07:43, Tshepang Lekhonkhobe wrote:
I may have exaggerated by saying 20 years, but I will not settle for
less than 10. And we need those anyway to compare results obtained by
one software against the other.
On Tue, Apr 10, 2007 at 04:36:06PM +0100, Luis Matos wrote:
Ter, 2007-04-10 às 08:28 -0600, Warren Turkal escreveu:
On Tuesday 10 April 2007 07:43, Tshepang Lekhonkhobe wrote:
I may have exaggerated by saying 20 years, but I will not settle for
less than 10. And we need those anyway to
Tshepang Lekhonkhobe [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I've got an idea that some software is targeted at such a narrow
userbase (CAD for example) that volunteer development seemes
unjustified. In such cases, it's nice when academy and business lend
their hand.
There just isn't enough interest among
Jean-Christophe Dubacq [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My point is: do what Debian must, but do not consider breaking
commercial software lightly, and do not think that freedom is all what
is required by some well-known target audience such as universities.
Tolerance is as great a value (in some
Luis Matos [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Free cad implementations are too simple for use in some industrial
environments, when programs like CATIA or Solidorks, or inventor, Come
in Mind.
These programs are expensive and require power that can be better used
in 64 bit platform.
64bit Linux has
Tshepang Lekhonkhobe wrote:
On 4/10/07, Jean-Christophe Dubacq [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
For example, CPlex (a mathematical programming optimizer) is considered
much better than any free (even free as beer) program, having no
equivalent for e.g. quadratic constraints problems.
Maple is also
On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 05:20:34PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
The fact that Microsoft has chosen to remove win64 completely from the
retail
boxes for Vista is very significative.
No, they include it in ultimate (it has both DVDs)
Ultimate is not targetted at the consumer market.
On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 06:39:16PM -0400, Jim Crilly wrote:
Well I think users of applications like solidworks, lightwave, maya,
etc, just might use win64 and be quite happy with it. Not a huge
market, but not nothing either. I doubt this will be small enough that
linux can automatically
On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 04:59:57PM -0400, Matthias Julius wrote:
But anyway, what do we care? I have my working 64bit platform.
It currently works for more people than win64 does, that's for sure. The
question is if it'll maintain this edge during the next two years.
--
Robert Millan
My
On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 10:17:15PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
Helping closed source software developers is not an itch I feel
like scratching. But if other people want to spend time making things
easy for closed software, I am of course not going to stand in their
way, no
Robert Millan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
If x86_64-linux-gnu is stablished as the new reference api, well, they'll
be forced to.
Reference for what? Is there any software vendor porting his
applications to 64bit Linux because of problems with win64? I havn't
noticed any. Proprietary software
Most people and main developpers only know windows' tools for
development, that's for sure.
I am currently developping an industrial application for windows and
linux, because i forced the use of gtk (so i can develop and run it on
linux), but my boss is forcing me to only develop in and for
On 4/10/07, Felipe Sateler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Maple is far away from any competitor I've seen. It provides you with
anything you need plus everything you want, works in a nice environment and
provides you with a _very_ comprehensive help. I have yet to find any free
equivalent that has
Tshepang Lekhonkhobe [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On 4/10/07, Jean-Christophe Dubacq [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
For example, CPlex (a mathematical programming optimizer) is considered
much better than any free (even free as beer) program, having no
equivalent for e.g. quadratic constraints
Le dimanche 08 avril 2007 à 17:42 -0700, Steve Langasek a écrit :
So you don't believe that software will continue to push forward our minimum
hardware requirements, the way it has for the past decade or so? What do
you think is the minimum memory required to run a comfortable desktop
system
On Monday 09 April 2007, Steve Langasek wrote:
you don't believe that software will continue to push forward our
minimum hardware requirements, the way it has for the past decade or so?
What do you think is the minimum memory required to run a comfortable
desktop system (or workstation) today?
On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 17:42:31 -0700, Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
[M-F-T set appropriately]
On Sun, Apr 08, 2007 at 11:15:56PM +0200, Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt wrote:
Robert Millan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Sun, Apr 08, 2007 at 10:10:58PM +0200, Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt wrote:
On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 10:12:54AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
What are the concrete reasons, you think, for thinking that 2008
(and not earlier or later) is going to be the deadline? From the
article, it seems to be mostly hand waving and pretending that the past
is a perfect
On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 07:16:12PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
I think we agree that Moore's law predicts the available amount of memory.
High-end application developers will always write software that accomodates
to that amount, so when this amount is 8 GiB, app developers will either:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Lennart Sorensen) writes:
Actually I wouldn't say win64 is broken, it just has a serious lack of
drivers, which of course will continue as long as nobody is using it.
If microsoft wanted to solve this they should mandate 64bit drivers
along with 32bit drivers in order to
On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 07:16:12PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
- flash (I expect swfdec will be ready to replace non-free 32bit-only
implementation)
Btw, I wonder how would Adobe feel about a feature in swfdec akin to iceweasel's
block banners from this site advertisement killer.
On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 02:27:18PM -0400, Matthias Julius wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Lennart Sorensen) writes:
Actually I wouldn't say win64 is broken, it just has a serious lack of
drivers, which of course will continue as long as nobody is using it.
If microsoft wanted to solve this they
On Mon, 9 Apr 2007 19:16:12 +0200, Robert Millan [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 10:12:54AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
What are the concrete reasons, you think, for thinking that 2008 (and
not earlier or later) is going to be the deadline? From the article,
it seems to
Robert Millan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
You mean win64-only games? Nobody dares to invest in developing that now;
it would be suicidal.
I don't know about the practices of game developers, but, from what I
see on Linux it should be minimal effort to port a software to 64 bit
if it is written
On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 02:06:14PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
I think we agree that Moore's law predicts the available amount of
memory.
Broadly. Precision, however, is not something Moore ever said
of his statistical law,
The perfect prediction you want does not exist. But
On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 03:48:06PM -0400, Matthias Julius wrote:
Robert Millan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
You mean win64-only games? Nobody dares to invest in developing that now;
it would be suicidal.
I don't know about the practices of game developers, but, from what I
see on Linux it
Robert Millan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 03:48:06PM -0400, Matthias Julius wrote:
I don't know about the practices of game developers, but, from what I
see on Linux it should be minimal effort to port a software to 64 bit
if it is written right. So, I would expect
On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 08:14:50PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
You forgot the +PAE part.
PAE helps the OS, not the applications. Applications still only get
32bit. Well unless the OS starts doing something weird, and it would
then require applications written explictly for some memory access
On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 02:27:18PM -0400, Matthias Julius wrote:
Workstations as well. CAD is one example. You can never have enough
memory there. I could imagine the same is true for video processing
or rendering and similar applications. I guess it won't become
mainstream until there are
On 04/09/07 05:20:34PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 08:14:50PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
You forgot the +PAE part.
PAE helps the OS, not the applications. Applications still only get
32bit. Well unless the OS starts doing something weird, and it would
then
On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 02:06:14PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
On Mon, 9 Apr 2007 19:16:12 +0200, Robert Millan [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 10:12:54AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
What are the concrete reasons, you think, for thinking that 2008 (and
not earlier
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Lennart Sorensen) writes:
Well my farther is going to get a new system for cad soon, which the
current plan is to have 64bit vista with solidworks 64bit running. But
it might be another month or two before he is ready for it, so hopefully
by then any remaining driver
On Mon, 9 Apr 2007 17:20:33 -0700, Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 02:06:14PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
Secondly, these large application developers you seem to speak of
appear to be proprietary application developers -- which mean that in
my eyes the
[M-F-T set appropriately]
On Sun, Apr 08, 2007 at 11:15:56PM +0200, Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt wrote:
Robert Millan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Sun, Apr 08, 2007 at 10:10:58PM +0200, Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt wrote:
Robert Millan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The thing is, that if lenny will be
On Sun, Apr 08, 2007 at 05:42:31PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
[M-F-T set appropriately]
... or not, mutt is apparently being clever. :P
--
Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world.
59 matches
Mail list logo
