On 07-Dec-02, 16:05 (CST), David B Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:51:03 +0100
Martin Schulze [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It is a bad practice to repeat the package name as the first word in
the long description.
Why is that again?
Because anything[1] that displays
Colin Walters wrote:
Hello,
I think the package descriptions are a very important product of this
project. They're going to be one of the first things people see when
they use Debian, and their quality directly reflects on the quality of
Debian. I've been putting in some random efforts
* Martin Schulze ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
Your example lists:
Package: foo
Description: perform some function, do some task for
GNOME/KDE/WindowMaker/GNU/Linux
foo is a function program, designed to help
you task. more simple details about task. Written for
the environment, it
On Sat, 2002-12-07 at 05:51, Martin Schulze wrote:
It is a bad practice to repeat the package name as the first word in the
long description.
Fair enough. Fixed.
Also the URL does not belong into the description but should be
placed in the debian/copyright file instead.
To quote Joey
Joshua Haberman wrote:
It is a bad practice to repeat the package name as the first word in the
long description.
Also the URL does not belong into the description but should be
placed in the debian/copyright file instead.
What if someone wants to visit the webpage before they
On Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:51:03 +0100
Martin Schulze [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It is a bad practice to repeat the package name as the first word in
the long description.
Why is that again?
Also the URL does not belong into the description but should be
placed in the debian/copyright file
On Sat, Dec 07, 2002 at 11:51:03AM +0100, Martin Schulze wrote:
It is a bad practice to repeat the package name as the first word in the
long description.
Actually it's bad in the short description, not necessarily in the long one.
Also the URL does not belong into the description but
Martin Schulze [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Joshua Haberman wrote:
It is a bad practice to repeat the package name as the first word in the
long description.
Also the URL does not belong into the description but should be
placed in the debian/copyright file instead.
What if someone wants to
Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
1. I suspect it will be very hard to get this consistently used
in Debian descriptions, as there are a lot of people who do not
naturally use the 'period-two-spaces' convention. (I suspect it is
entirely determined by how much typing one did on real
Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 05-Dec-02, 16:49 (CST), Thomas Bushnell, BSG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It is not possible for an automated renderer to figure out where
sentence boundaries are without some kind of help, and a mere period
is not sufficient help. So, a good
On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 03:23:08PM -0500, David B Harris wrote:
On Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:59:09 +0100
Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
a good search interface in our package interface UIs (good search !=
search by words).
... as opposed to searching based on the
On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 11:12:17PM -0500, Colin Walters wrote:
On Thu, 2002-12-05 at 14:59, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote:
Not only users, software might use them too. We currently don't have
a good search interface in our package interface UIs (good search != search
by
Steve Greenland wrote:
While technically valid, I don't like his much, for a couple of
reasons:
1. I suspect it will be very hard to get this consistently used
in Debian descriptions, as there are a lot of people who do not
naturally use the 'period-two-spaces' convention. (I suspect it is
On 06-Dec-02, 11:25 (CST), Joey Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Don't forget:
3. It can easily fails if a sentence happens to end at the end of a line.
Like the previous sentence, which only a computer programmer would
think to add two spaces at the end of. :-)
Nah, programmers know
Joey Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Don't forget:
3. It can easily fails if a sentence happens to end at the end of a line.
Like the previous sentence, which only a computer programmer would
think to add two spaces at the end of. :-)
Not if you also require abbreviations to not extend
Herbert Xu wrote:
Don't forget:
3. It can easily fails if a sentence happens to end at the end of a line.
Like the previous sentence, which only a computer programmer would
think to add two spaces at the end of. :-)
Not if you also require abbreviations to not extend across
On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 08:05:43PM -0500, Colin Walters wrote:
I think this is hard to without switching to a format which allows us to
include more metadata (like XML). So we can explicitly use stuff like
ul and li for lists, instead of relying on ASCII renderings. That
way we can safely
On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 12:55:50PM -0500, Colin Walters wrote:
I think the package descriptions are a very important product of this
project. They're going to be one of the first things people see when
they use Debian, and their quality directly reflects on the quality of
Debian. I've been
Am 4.12.02 um 15:15:53 schrieb David B Harris:
If variable-width fonts are used, then line breaks shouldn't be
preserved. If they're not going to be preserved, there needs to be a
very specific set of rules as to how lines are joined. These already
exist in code, actually; I believe
Am 4.12.02 um 14:38:07 schrieb Joey Hess:
angband: Sauron [...] most powerful of his servants
Nice script, Joey, but perhaps you should have looked at the
description for yourself. :-)
Cheers,
Mike
--
|=| Michael Piefel
|=| Humboldt-Universität zu Berlin
|=| Tel. (+49 30) 2093 3831
On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 07:19:38PM +, Scott James Remnant wrote:
In correct English grammar and typography the space after a full stop
(period in Merkin) is supposed to be a wider space then that between
words and after commas and suchlike.
There is no such thing as correct typography,
On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 12:18:08PM +0100, Michael Piefel wrote:
Am 4.12.02 um 14:38:07 schrieb Joey Hess:
angband: Sauron [...] most powerful of his servants
Nice script, Joey, but perhaps you should have looked at the
description for yourself. :-)
Heh, I succesfully managed to :q! when I
On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 02:09:50PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
Ari Pollak wrote:
I think the real issue here isn't so much actual package descriptions,
but the ITPs. Most package descriptions I've seen have been pretty
accurate, and tend to change a lot between the time of the ITP and
David B Harris wrote:
If variable-width fonts are used, then line breaks shouldn't be
preserved. If they're not going to be preserved, there needs to be a
very specific set of rules as to how lines are joined. These already
exist in code, actually; I believe packages.debian.org joins lines.
I
On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 07:59:20PM -0500, Colin Walters wrote:
[snip]
Ooh, goody :) Does this mean #45943 will finally be fixed?
Well, we obviously can't force anyone to do anything; but I hope that
having the reasoning more clearly laid out will motivate people...
[snip]
Does submitting
Matt Zimmerman wrote:
I'd be willing to invest some time in co-maintenance of a package
description override list.
I've had a pretty good amount of response to my description bug reports.
--
see shy jo
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On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 12:55:50PM -0500, Colin Walters wrote:
Hello,
I think the package descriptions are a very important product of this
project. They're going to be one of the first things people see when
they use Debian, and their quality directly reflects on the quality of
Debian.
On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:58:43PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
Matt Zimmerman wrote:
I'd be willing to invest some time in co-maintenance of a package
description override list.
I've had a pretty good amount of response to my description bug reports.
But do your bug reports keep up with the
On Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:13:57 +0100
Michael Piefel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Line breaks already aren't preserved, and there already exist a very
specific set of rules for that. Look into your documentation, and have
a look at dselect.
I already have example applications which don't preserve them
On Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:59:09 +0100
Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
a good search interface in our package interface UIs (good search !=
search by words).
... as opposed to searching based on the contents of people's minds? :)
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On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:58:43PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
Matt Zimmerman wrote:
I'd be willing to invest some time in co-maintenance of a package
description override list.
I've had a pretty good amount of response to my description bug
Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
However, this is all on *output* (display, whatever). The input text
should have just a single space. The text has to be reformatted to fit
the screen (display area) anyway (even on a terminal), and it's the job
of the reformatter/text
On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 10:03:32PM +0100, tomas pospisek [EMAIL PROTECTED]
was heard to say:
On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
But do your bug reports keep up with the flow of new packages into the
archive? That is, is the overall description quality increasing or
decreasing?
On 05-Dec-02, 16:49 (CST), Thomas Bushnell, BSG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It is not possible for an automated renderer to figure out where
sentence boundaries are without some kind of help, and a mere period
is not sufficient help. So, a good convention to establish might be
that the string .
On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 03:21:24PM -0500, David B Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED]
was heard to say:
On Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:13:57 +0100
Michael Piefel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Line breaks already aren't preserved, and there already exist a very
specific set of rules for that. Look into your
On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 02:49:12PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
It is not possible for an automated renderer to figure out where
sentence boundaries are without some kind of help, and a mere period
is not sufficient help. So, a good convention to establish might be
that the string .
Steve Greenland wrote:
(Of course, if this is the worst problem we have with Debian package
descriptions, I say flip a coin and forget about it.)
I have a better idea -- just forget it altogether. It doesn't need to be
standardized in Debian; it certainly isn't standardized in the
publishing
David B Harris writes:
Could you point me at the documentation in question?
Debian Packaging Manual
---
Ian Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Revised: David A. Morris [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 02:49:12PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
However, this is all on *output* (display, whatever). The input text
should have just a single space. The text has to be reformatted to fit
the screen (display area) anyway (even
On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 14:38, Joey Hess wrote:
Your emphasis on audiences is very good, but I am leery of the treatment
of package descriptions as advertisements. A package description that
reads like an in-your-face advertisement can suck at being a package
description. You're right in some
Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
In standard typography, it is to have extra space after a period ending
a sentence. For fixed-width fonts, this often shows up as two spaces,
as is fairly ugly.
Of course, that's simply an opinion, and depends a lot on exactly
_which_ fixed fonts you
On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 20:26, Simon Richter wrote:
Colin,
http://people.debian.org/~walters/descriptions.html
Well, I'm not sure there should be a template -- people will use it (and
thus try to squeeze information into it). I usually tell my sponsees
that a description should answer the
On Thu, 2002-12-05 at 14:59, Javier Fernndez-Sanguino Pea wrote:
Not only users, software might use them too. We currently don't have
a good search interface in our package interface UIs (good search != search by
words). I tried to make (quite a long time ago and it's pretty much an
Hello,
I think the package descriptions are a very important product of this
project. They're going to be one of the first things people see when
they use Debian, and their quality directly reflects on the quality of
Debian. I've been putting in some random efforts here and there to
comment on
I think the real issue here isn't so much actual package descriptions,
but the ITPs. Most package descriptions I've seen have been pretty
accurate, and tend to change a lot between the time of the ITP and
actual package release.
Colin Walters wrote:
I think the package descriptions are a very
On 04 Dec 2002 12:55:50 -0500
Colin Walters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
http://people.debian.org/~walters/descriptions.html
Thanks.
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On 04 Dec 2002 12:55:50 -0500
Colin Walters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
http://people.debian.org/~walters/descriptions.html
I do have some differences of opinion, though. It's sad, but there are a
getting to be a fairly large number of DDs who are attention grabbers.
Just a few days ago, I saw a
On 04-Dec-02, 12:11 (CST), Ari Pollak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think the real issue here isn't so much actual package descriptions,
but the ITPs. Most package descriptions I've seen have been pretty
accurate, and tend to change a lot between the time of the ITP and
actual package
Le mer 04/12/2002 à 19:11, Ari Pollak a écrit :
I think the real issue here isn't so much actual package descriptions,
but the ITPs. Most package descriptions I've seen have been pretty
accurate, and tend to change a lot between the time of the ITP and
actual package release.
The problem
On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 19:01, David B Harris wrote:
Also, in the description template, two spaces are used after a period -
is that standard nowadays? (My understanding was that they were
primarily used for variable-width fonts, where a single space would take
up very little page space. Since
David B Harris wrote:
Also, in the description template, two spaces are used after a period -
is that standard nowadays? (My understanding was that they were
primarily used for variable-width fonts, where a single space would take
up very little page space.
There was an interesting
Scott James Remnant wrote:
In correct English grammar and typography the space after a full stop
(period in Merkin) is supposed to be a wider space then that between
words and after commas and suchlike.
Therefore typists were always taught to press the space key twice after
a full stop.
On 04 Dec 2002 19:19:38 +
Scott James Remnant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In correct English grammar and typography the space after a full stop
(period in Merkin) is supposed to be a wider space then that between
words and after commas and suchlike.
Ahh, allright, so there's still reason to
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:33:35 -0800
Craig Dickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't see any reason why package descriptions shouldn't be presented
in variable-width fonts. The right margin might look a bit ragged
(assuming the program preserves line breaks, which is probably a good
idea to avoid
On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 19:48, Craig Dickson wrote:
Scott James Remnant wrote:
In correct English grammar and typography the space after a full stop
(period in Merkin) is supposed to be a wider space then that between
words and after commas and suchlike.
Hmm, you just gave a rule
On 04-Dec-02, 13:01 (CST), David B Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Also, in the description template, two spaces are used after a period -
is that standard nowadays?
(Yes, I've read some of the other responses to this.)
In standard typography, it is to have extra space after a period ending
Craig Dickson writes:
Hmm, you just gave a rule specifically for fixed-width fonts, and now
you're tacitly assuming that it applies to variable-width fonts as well?
You are supposed to use an n-space between words and an m-space between
sentences when typesetting. Using two spaces with
On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 07:19:38PM +, Scott James Remnant wrote:
If you are writing text in something that uses variable width fonts, the
program should know about English grammar and render the wider space
itself on any whitespace. (LaTeX is about the only thing that gets it
right
stuff,
do replace all references to advertisements with good advertisements
and whatnot :)
Done.
Also, in the description template, two spaces are used after a period -
is that standard nowadays?
I think this is an unresolved issue. I've added a section on this to
the description writing
on this to
the description writing guide.
On an unrelated topic, it would be nice if the description format
allowed whitespace to be collapsed/expanded on wordwrapped lines. The last
time I checked, it seemed to at least imply that whitespace was sancrosact,
and I found several packages that relied
On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 12:55:50PM -0500, Colin Walters [EMAIL PROTECTED] was
heard to say:
I think the package descriptions are a very important product of this
project. They're going to be one of the first things people see when
they use Debian, and their quality directly reflects on the
On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 18:58, Daniel Burrows wrote:
On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 12:55:50PM -0500, Colin Walters [EMAIL PROTECTED]
was heard to say:
I think the package descriptions are a very important product of this
project. They're going to be one of the first things people see when
they
On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 18:55, Daniel Burrows wrote:
That might be true, but I would like to see language such as best
package for foo explicitly deprecated in the guide. I've even written
such stuff myself, back before I realized what the problems were.
(hopefully there isn't anything like
Colin,
http://people.debian.org/~walters/descriptions.html
Well, I'm not sure there should be a template -- people will use it (and
thus try to squeeze information into it). I usually tell my sponsees
that a description should answer the following questions, roughly in
that order:
- What does
On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 08:05:43PM -0500, Colin Walters [EMAIL PROTECTED] was
heard to say:
On an unrelated topic, it would be nice if the description format
allowed whitespace to be collapsed/expanded on wordwrapped lines. The last
time I checked, it seemed to at least imply that
Daniel Burrows writes:
On the other hand, a proper markup language would be nice.
I would be appalled were such a thing to be required.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, Wisconsin
Ari Pollak wrote:
I think the real issue here isn't so much actual package descriptions,
but the ITPs. Most package descriptions I've seen have been pretty
accurate, and tend to change a lot between the time of the ITP and
actual package release.
I disagree. Every time I look at the
Colin Walters wrote:
I think the package descriptions are a very important product of this
project. They're going to be one of the first things people see when
they use Debian, and their quality directly reflects on the quality of
Debian. I've been putting in some random efforts here and
On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 07:49:04PM -0600, John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] was
heard to say:
Daniel Burrows writes:
On the other hand, a proper markup language would be nice.
I would be appalled were such a thing to be required.
I didn't say I thought it was politically possible to do this,
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