Steve Langasek wrote:
While I do prefer sendmail, I think there is one technical
issue you guys are glossing over: The fact that we have an installed
base of Exim, and documentation all over the place that assumes the
Debian default is Exim,
Such as? I haven't seen any
Le lundi 18 mai 2009 à 01:47 -0400, Micah Anderson a écrit :
I'm not sure why other distributions have decided to choose Postfix as
their default, but if I were to take a guess I would think that it is
because it is easier for new users to setup. But perhaps that is a
subjective assessment
On Mon,18.May.09, 09:45:31, Josselin Mouette wrote:
To make a choice, I’d say we should have a look at security and memory
usage.
Maybe also startup speed?
Regards,
Andrei
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)
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Manoj Srivastava sriva...@debian.org writes:
On Sat, May 09, 2009 at 10:22:40PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
Given that, I would say that churning the installation by making
a supermajority of sites change their MTA seems like a non-starter to
me.
I do not see how changing the
On Thu, May 07, 2009 at 09:25:59AM +0200, Luca Niccoli wrote:
2009/5/7 Brian May b...@snoopy.debian.net:
However, I very much dislike this Unix feature as it means mail can
accumulate on any {user,system} account on any computer and not get
noticed by the {user,system administrator}.
Not
On Fri, May 08, 2009 at 08:23:33AM +0100, Neil Williams
wrote:
At which point, I begin to wonder if 'cron' and 'at'
cannot simply be told to use a log file if no MTA exists.
Alternatively, create a dummy-mta that converts MTA
requests into log files without all the mail headers.
Log files are
On 2009-05-09 22:20:47 -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
According to popcon, only about 68% of Debian users have exim4
installed, and 18% have postfix installed. I don't think that's much
of a lead for exim4, considering most of the exim4 installs are
probably due solely to its status as a
On Monday 11 May 2009 07:45:02 Manoj Srivastava wrote:
Changing defaults with a large installed base begs the
question: Why? Random churn for churns sake is not the answer.
But upgrades would (should?) keep exim installed. A new default would only
affect new installations.
--
To
On 2009-05-11, Brian May b...@snoopy.debian.net wrote:
On Fri, May 08, 2009 at 11:31:07PM +0200, Jens Peter Secher wrote:
+1 for ssmtp
I found ssmtp couldn't cope with mail my various systems were
generating, something about fixed maximum buffer lengths from memory.
Please not ssmtp. If I
Philipp Kern tr...@philkern.de writes:
On 2009-05-11, Brian May b...@snoopy.debian.net wrote:
On Fri, May 08, 2009 at 11:31:07PM +0200, Jens Peter Secher wrote:
+1 for ssmtp
I found ssmtp couldn't cope with mail my various systems were
generating, something about fixed maximum buffer lengths
* Simon Josefsson si...@josefsson.org, 2009-05-11, 12:55:
+1 for ssmtp
I found ssmtp couldn't cope with mail my various systems were
generating, something about fixed maximum buffer lengths from memory.
Please not ssmtp. If I recall it correctly I found no way to get it
to send mail to a
Jakub Wilk uba...@users.sf.net writes:
* Simon Josefsson si...@josefsson.org, 2009-05-11, 12:55:
+1 for ssmtp
I found ssmtp couldn't cope with mail my various systems were
generating, something about fixed maximum buffer lengths from memory.
Please not ssmtp. If I recall it correctly I
* Simon Josefsson si...@josefsson.org, 2009-05-11, 15:06:
What about msmtp? http://msmtp.sourceforge.net/
AFAIK msmtp does not support local mail delivery.
I suspect that is part of the design goal of msmtp. Local mail delivery
can be handled by other tools, can't it? Generally, it seems
Manoj Srivastava sriva...@debian.org writes:
and documentation all over the place that assumes the Debian
default is Exim
I think that's a weakness that should be addressed regardless of what
happens with the default.
[Of course changing defaults is one way to force the issue a bit, but of
Quoting Steve Langasek (vor...@debian.org):
My point is precisely that I don't think there are any salient technical
advantages of one over the other. Either postfix or exim4 meets our needs
for a default MTA, and both have packages that appear to be well-supported
by their maintainers and
On Fri, May 08, 2009 at 11:31:07PM +0200, Jens Peter Secher wrote:
+1 for ssmtp
I found ssmtp couldn't cope with mail my various systems were
generating, something about fixed maximum buffer lengths from memory.
Not to mention http://bugs.debian.org/508759.
The fact that a simple MTA can have
On Sun, May 10 2009, Miles Bader wrote:
Manoj Srivastava sriva...@debian.org writes:
and documentation all over the place that assumes the Debian
default is Exim
I think that's a weakness that should be addressed regardless of what
happens with the default.
[Of course changing defaults is
On Sun, May 10 2009, Steve Langasek wrote:
On Sat, May 09, 2009 at 10:22:40PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
On Sat, May 09 2009, Don Armstrong wrote:
On Sat, 09 May 2009, Steve Langasek wrote:
My point is precisely that I don't think there are any salient
technical advantages of one
Quoting Micah Anderson (mi...@debian.org):
I think our problem is, how do we go about making this decision?
If the problem is well summarized (the wiki page you pointed), why not
make use of our Technical Committee for this?
It certainly needs someone committing self to track down the issue
On Sat, May 09, 2009 at 08:04:07AM +0200, Christian Perrier wrote:
Quoting Micah Anderson (mi...@debian.org):
I think our problem is, how do we go about making this decision?
If the problem is well summarized (the wiki page you pointed), why not
make use of our Technical Committee for
Quoting Steve Langasek (vor...@debian.org):
If this were put to the TC, I can't see any way that this would be anything
more than a poll of the personal preferences of the members of the TC. If
someone who's in a position to make this decision decides they'd like to
delegate the decision to
On Saturday 09 May 2009 02:35:18 Micah Anderson wrote:
Some people clearly want postfix as the default MTA in Debian (I do),
and some people dont want the default to change from Exim. There are
some people who want something else, but so far that something else has
not be technically
also sprach Peter Eisentraut pet...@debian.org [2009.05.09.1142 +0200]:
There are really two orthogonal things being discussed here: One question is
whether the default MTA should be a full or proper implementation versus a
tiny and limited implementation (or -- the latest idea -- none at
On Sat, May 09, 2009 at 08:55:11AM +0200, Christian Perrier wrote:
Quoting Steve Langasek (vor...@debian.org):
If this were put to the TC, I can't see any way that this would be anything
more than a poll of the personal preferences of the members of the TC. If
someone who's in a position
On Sat, 09 May 2009, Steve Langasek wrote:
My point is precisely that I don't think there are any salient
technical advantages of one over the other.
Just going by what MTAs -ctte members are running, it'd be 3, 2, 2
(postfix, exim, and sendmail.) [Though I honestly wouldn't suggest
sendmail as
On Sat, May 09 2009, Don Armstrong wrote:
On Sat, 09 May 2009, Steve Langasek wrote:
My point is precisely that I don't think there are any salient
technical advantages of one over the other.
Just going by what MTAs -ctte members are running, it'd be 3, 2, 2
(postfix, exim, and sendmail.)
On Sat, May 09, 2009 at 10:22:40PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
On Sat, May 09 2009, Don Armstrong wrote:
On Sat, 09 May 2009, Steve Langasek wrote:
My point is precisely that I don't think there are any salient
technical advantages of one over the other.
Just going by what MTAs -ctte
On Fri, 08 May 2009 08:12:35 +0300
Lars Wirzenius l...@liw.fi wrote:
pe, 2009-05-08 kello 11:43 +0800, Paul Wise kirjoitti:
I find the notion of a default MTA to be silly. Most desktops or
laptops or cellphones proably do not need an MTA.
I'd agree, were it not for cron.
At which point,
Hi,
Christian Surchi wrote:
ssmpt is not able to handle a queue, so I imagine that it needs
necessarily a permanent connection with a smarthost... am I wrong?
No, you're right.
I don't like this one for *any* machine.
I wouldn't like this as the default debian setup. Risking losing mails
2009/5/6 Josselin Mouette j...@debian.org:
Le mercredi 06 mai 2009 à 23:29 +0200, Luk Claes a écrit :
Maybe we should also consider changing the default MTA to postfix?
Given that the default configuration is extremely simplistic and doesn’t
use a percent of either exim or postfix features, I
This discussion has happened before, many times. Some folks spent some
time on a wiki page describing the different MTAs, would be worth
reviewing for some background and comparison:
http://wiki.debian.org/DefaultMTA
Some people clearly want postfix as the default MTA in Debian (I do),
and some
Marco d'Itri wrote:
On May 06, Josselin Mouette j...@debian.org wrote:
Given that the default configuration is extremely simplistic and doesn???t
use a percent of either exim or postfix features, I still wonder why it
is not something like nullmailer or ssmtp.
Because it's expected from a
Luk Claes wrote:
Steve Langasek wrote:
On Tue, May 05, 2009 at 05:06:26PM +0200, martin f krafft wrote:
also sprach Carsten Hey cars...@debian.org [2009.05.05.1645 +0200]:
FWIW, Ubuntu did what I consider the right thing:
Le jeudi 07 mai 2009 à 03:24 +0200, Marco d'Itri a écrit :
Because it's expected from a UNIX system to be able to deliver mail to
local mailboxes.
And who cares a shit about system emails piling up in /var/mail?
--
.''`. Josselin Mouette
: :' :
`. `' “I recommend you to learn English
2009/5/7 Brian May b...@snoopy.debian.net:
esmtp can do this, if you configure it to use procmail or something.
I use and like esmtp, but I don't see how we could depend on it as
default MTA if it has to deliver local mail: like you said there must
be procmail installed and esmtp needs some
Il giorno mer, 06/05/2009 alle 23.53 +0200, Josselin Mouette ha scritto:
Given that the default configuration is extremely simplistic and doesn’t
use a percent of either exim or postfix features, I still wonder why it
is not something like nullmailer or ssmtp.
Is nullmailer actively upstream
On Thu, 07 May 2009 08:01:11 +0200
Giacomo Catenazzi c...@debian.org wrote:
Luk Claes wrote:
Steve Langasek wrote:
On Tue, May 05, 2009 at 05:06:26PM +0200, martin f krafft wrote:
also sprach Carsten Hey cars...@debian.org [2009.05.05.1645
+0200]:
FWIW, Ubuntu did what I consider
Le jeudi 07 mai 2009 à 13:23 +0200, Harald Braumann a écrit :
No, please don't use an esoteric mailer. People who don't know and
don't want to know about their local mailer don't need to know about
Postfix' complexity. They can set up Postfix with a single debconf
questions to a minimal
also sprach Josselin Mouette j...@debian.org [2009.05.07.1328 +0200]:
How is that an improvement over Exim?
There are some of us that have a greater trust level into the
security and design of postfix.
--
.''`. martin f. krafft madd...@d.o Related projects:
: :' : proud Debian
On 2009-05-07, martin f krafft madd...@debian.org wrote:
also sprach Josselin Mouette j...@debian.org [2009.05.07.1328 +0200]:
How is that an improvement over Exim?
There are some of us that have a greater trust level into the
security and design of postfix.
DSA uses Exim on their boxes and
Le jeudi 07 mai 2009 à 13:36 +0200, martin f krafft a écrit :
also sprach Josselin Mouette j...@debian.org [2009.05.07.1328 +0200]:
How is that an improvement over Exim?
There are some of us that have a greater trust level into the
security and design of postfix.
Both have a very good
On May 07, Harald Braumann ha...@unheit.net wrote:
No, please don't use an esoteric mailer. People who don't know and
don't want to know about their local mailer don't need to know about
Postfix' complexity. They can set up Postfix with a single debconf
questions to a minimal configuration.
Harald Braumann wrote:
On Thu, 07 May 2009 08:01:11 +0200
Giacomo Catenazzi c...@debian.org wrote:
No, most of users don't need a full MTA, but only a local MTA
(usually only sendmail command, but ev. only a socket listening to
localhost:25).
SO I would propose a more simple mailer (esmtpd,
also sprach Josselin Mouette j...@debian.org [2009.05.07.1423 +0200]:
Both have a very good security track record, so I don’t think the design
alone justifies a possibly painful transition.
Where's the pain?
0. figure out how to solve #508644 properly, and not only for
default-mta,
On Thu, 07 May 2009, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Le jeudi 07 mai 2009 à 13:23 +0200, Harald Braumann a écrit :
No, please don't use an esoteric mailer. People who don't know and
don't want to know about their local mailer don't need to know about
Postfix' complexity. They can set up Postfix
Le jeudi 07 mai 2009 à 10:35 -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh a
écrit :
I personally find postfix to be lighter and I consider it saner, more secure
in theory, and much easier to configure for complex tasks.
From my personal experience, postfix makes it easier to do simple tasks,
while exim
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On 07-05-2009 11:29, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Le jeudi 07 mai 2009 à 10:35 -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh a
écrit :
I personally find postfix to be lighter and I consider it saner, more secure
in theory, and much easier to configure for
On Thu, 07 May 2009 13:28:33 +0200
Josselin Mouette j...@debian.org wrote:
Le jeudi 07 mai 2009 à 13:23 +0200, Harald Braumann a écrit :
No, please don't use an esoteric mailer. People who don't know and
don't want to know about their local mailer don't need to know about
Postfix'
On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 1:01 AM, Harald Braumann ha...@unheit.net wrote:
I never talked about Exim. I was just opposing the proposition, that
some esoteric mailer like nullsmtp or esmtp will become the default in
Debian.
I find the notion of a default MTA to be silly. Most desktops or
laptops
pe, 2009-05-08 kello 11:43 +0800, Paul Wise kirjoitti:
I find the notion of a default MTA to be silly. Most desktops or
laptops or cellphones proably do not need an MTA.
I'd agree, were it not for cron.
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of
Steve Langasek wrote:
On Tue, May 05, 2009 at 05:06:26PM +0200, martin f krafft wrote:
also sprach Carsten Hey cars...@debian.org [2009.05.05.1645 +0200]:
FWIW, Ubuntu did what I consider the right thing:
http://launchpadlibrarian.net/21235281/mdadm_2.6.7.1-1ubuntu4_2.6.7.1-1ubuntu5.diff.gz
On May 06, Luk Claes l...@debian.org wrote:
Maybe we should also consider changing the default MTA to postfix?
Agreed, it's about time.
--
ciao,
Marco
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Le mercredi 06 mai 2009 à 23:29 +0200, Luk Claes a écrit :
Maybe we should also consider changing the default MTA to postfix?
Given that the default configuration is extremely simplistic and doesn’t
use a percent of either exim or postfix features, I still wonder why it
is not something like
Josselin Mouette wrote:
Le mercredi 06 mai 2009 à 23:29 +0200, Luk Claes a écrit :
Maybe we should also consider changing the default MTA to postfix?
Given that the default configuration is extremely simplistic and doesn’t
use a percent of either exim or postfix features, I still wonder why
also sprach Joerg Jaspert jo...@debian.org [2009.05.07.0002 +0200]:
As much as i like postfix and hate exim: no. If we change, please
go to something like nullmailer|ssmtp|whateversimple.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think those do not do queueing,
which will break the default assumption
also sprach Marco d'Itri m...@linux.it [2009.05.06.2338 +0200]:
Maybe we should also consider changing the default MTA to postfix?
Agreed, it's about time.
http://doodle.com/exre35q7ckruyxpx
--
.''`. martin f. krafft madd...@d.o Related projects:
: :' : proud Debian developer
Le jeudi 07 mai 2009 à 00:01 +0200, Luk Claes a écrit :
The default MTA if the one that should work easily for most situations IMHO.
Where do we draw the line for “most situations”? If you want to do
serious email work, you’ll have to spend some time configuring your
exim/postfix and install
On 11742 March 1977, Luk Claes wrote:
Maybe we should also consider changing the default MTA to postfix?
As much as i like postfix and hate exim: no. If we change, please go to
something like nullmailer|ssmtp|whateversimple.
--
bye, Joerg
Overfiend joshk: okay. I've manned a Debian booth
On Thu, 07 May 2009, martin f krafft wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think those do not do queueing,
which will break the default assumption that I've seen almost
everywhere, which is that when sendmail returns, your email is
getting delivered, or you'll get a DSN.
Nullmailer does.
On Thu, May 07, 2009 at 12:14:42AM +0200, martin f krafft wrote:
also sprach Joerg Jaspert jo...@debian.org [2009.05.07.0002 +0200]:
As much as i like postfix and hate exim: no. If we change, please
go to something like nullmailer|ssmtp|whateversimple.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think
On May 06, Josselin Mouette j...@debian.org wrote:
Given that the default configuration is extremely simplistic and doesn???t
use a percent of either exim or postfix features, I still wonder why it
is not something like nullmailer or ssmtp.
Because it's expected from a UNIX system to be able
On Thu, May 07, 2009 at 03:24:13AM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
On May 06, Josselin Mouette j...@debian.org wrote:
Given that the default configuration is extremely simplistic and doesn???t
use a percent of either exim or postfix features, I still wonder why it
is not something like
Quoting Josselin Mouette (j...@debian.org):
Where do we draw the line for “most situations”? If you want to do
serious email work, you’ll have to spend some time configuring your
exim/postfix and install extra components to run with it. If you don’t,
a trivial configuration will do the trick,
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