Hi,
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009, Charles Plessy wrote:
> * “The meta-information would be stored in a set of RFC-2822 compliant
> fields.”
>
> RFC-2822 distinguishes between “unstructured” and “structured” fields. The
> ‘Description’ field you propose is not unstructured, since the first line has
> a
>
On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 05:43:16AM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> See the various links on http://wiki.debian.org/multiarch for the work
> on multiarch going back to 2004.
I reviewed that page prior to the UDS session.
It was all but useless (and I had to edit the page to update several lin
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Hello Raphaël,
A few more comments:
* “The meta-information would be stored in a set of RFC-2822 compliant fields.”
RFC-2822 distinguishes between “unstructured” and “structured” fields. The
‘Description’ field you propose is not unstructured, since the first line has a
special role, but is not
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 09:50:01PM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> Raphael Hertzog writes:
> > There is work going on recently. Steve Langasek drafted a plan that he
> > wants to bring forward in Ubuntu Karmic Koala and it has been reviewed by
> > Guillem Jover, the dpkg maintainer. Guillem
Aneurin Price writes:
> Hi,
>
> I've just spent over an hour writing and rewriting this mail, and determined
> that I can't think of a single constructive thing to say.
>
> So I'll just ask a couple of questions instead:
>
> Is there any way of preventing this kind of major breakage in the future
Yannick writes:
> Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
>
>> There where 3 options:
>>
>> 1) ia32-libs + ia32-libs-gtk (+ ia32-libs-kde + ia32-libs-qt)
>> ftp-master asked us to clean that up basically and
>> "it would not pass NEW if it where uploaded now"
>>
>> 2) ia32-lib* packages in the same schema
Raphael Hertzog writes:
> On Mon, 29 Jun 2009, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
>> Too bad they did that without involving the people already working on
>> multiarch via the alioth project.
>>
>> They messed up some finer details, broke the existing patches, made
>> the whole thing need a full releas
Josselin Mouette writes:
> Le lundi 29 juin 2009 à 21:30 +0200, Goswin von Brederlow a écrit :
>> Josselin Mouette writes:
>> > No, it is not going to be. The whole design needs work before it can be.
>>
>> There is a better design. It is called multiarch. But some people are
>> blocking that
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Hi,
I've just spent over an hour writing and rewriting this mail, and determined
that I can't think of a single constructive thing to say.
So I'll just ask a couple of questions instead:
Is there any way of preventing this kind of major breakage in the future?
I don't think many people expect th
On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:19:45 +0100
Neil Williams wrote:
> gtk+extra2 will FTBFS as soon as the functions that will be removed in
> GTK+3.0 become deprecated in GTK+2.0. GTK+2.0 doesn't have to be
> removed from Debian for gtk+extra2 to break. Yes, that isn't how
> things *should* work and it isn'
Josselin Mouette wrote:
> This is easy to do by advance. If your library builds with
> -DG_DISABLE_DEPRECATED -DGDK_DISABLE_DEPRECATED
> -DGTK_DISABLE_DEPRECATED, it will only require minor changes to work
> with GTK+ 3.
Plus -DGDK_PIXBUF_DISABLE_DEPRECATED
Cheers,
Emilio
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On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:56:30 +0200
Ludovic Brenta wrote:
> Neil Williams writes:
> > OK, there is a bug report already asking for libgtkada to not
> > build-depend on gtk+extra2 (#534872) but I don't see how using an
> > embedded copy is going to solve the problem.
> >
> > The embedded copy is j
Le lundi 29 juin 2009 à 23:06 +0200, Raphael Hertzog a écrit :
> I would also not merge patches without knowing if the full plan is
> credible.
This is the precise point that seems to be missing.
Goswin, if you have a prototype multiarch system based on unstable that
mostly works, with patches fo
Le lundi 29 juin 2009 à 22:56 +0200, Ludovic Brenta a écrit :
> Right; I realized that while thinking a bit about the issue earlier
> today. Then I went to gtk.org and it seems that GTK+3 is still many
> months away from release.
>
> Is there a published roadmap for when GTK+2 is removed from Deb
On Mon,29.Jun.09, 22:53:53, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> @@ -63,6 +63,10 @@ The set of fields ends on the first empty line.
> Free-form comments follow and be used for any other information that
^^
I'm not a native speaker, but this doesn't sound very well.
Regards,
Neil Williams writes:
> OK, there is a bug report already asking for libgtkada to not
> build-depend on gtk+extra2 (#534872) but I don't see how using an
> embedded copy is going to solve the problem.
>
> The embedded copy is just going to break in precisely the same way as
> the copy packaged as
On Mon, 29 Jun 2009, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> Too bad they did that without involving the people already working on
> multiarch via the alioth project.
>
> They messed up some finer details, broke the existing patches, made
> the whole thing need a full release cycle for a transition due to
>
Hello,
it looks like we quickly converged on something relatively well accepted.
Current version: http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep3/
=== Changes since last round ===
I made some minor changes following feedback: it gives the expected value
for the origin field for two common cases:
--- a/web/deps
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 05:30:35PM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> Mehdi Dogguy writes:
> Because there where no ideas brought forward to discuss.
> There where 3 options:
> 1) ia32-libs + ia32-libs-gtk (+ ia32-libs-kde + ia32-libs-qt)
>ftp-master asked us to clean that up basically an
Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> There where 3 options:
>
> 1) ia32-libs + ia32-libs-gtk (+ ia32-libs-kde + ia32-libs-qt)
> ftp-master asked us to clean that up basically and
> "it would not pass NEW if it where uploaded now"
>
> 2) ia32-lib* packages in the same schema as ia32-libs
> vetoed by ftp
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Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> Better add the pinings from /usr/share/doc/ia32-apt-get/NEWS.Debian.gz
> as well.
Goswin, you should put a "debconf warning" to point the apt pining solution
to the user.
Yannick
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On Sun, 21 Jun 2009, Raphael Geissert wrote:
> > Description (required)
> Why not simply consider all the free-form text the description? that would
> make all the current patches with a comment insta DEP3-compliant.
Done, but that's a recommendatino for the parser. Note that it's not
DEP3-complia
On Mon Jun 29 21:50, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> > There is work going on recently. Steve Langasek drafted a plan that he
> > wants to bring forward in Ubuntu Karmic Koala and it has been reviewed by
> > Guillem Jover, the dpkg maintainer. Guillem also has plans to make it a
> > reality inside De
Raphael Hertzog writes:
> On Mon, 29 Jun 2009, Norbert Preining wrote:
>> On Mo, 29 Jun 2009, Mark Brown wrote:
>> > > Figure out an acceptable option 4.
>> >
>> > Multiarch was mentioned in the original thread.
>>
>> Not that I was happy with the original situation (filing myself a bug),
>> bu
Le lundi 29 juin 2009 à 21:30 +0200, Goswin von Brederlow a écrit :
> Josselin Mouette writes:
> > No, it is not going to be. The whole design needs work before it can be.
>
> There is a better design. It is called multiarch. But some people are
> blocking that.
Identify the blockers. Work with
Mark Brown writes:
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 06:12:20PM +0200, Norbert Preining wrote:
>> On Mo, 29 Jun 2009, Mark Brown wrote:
>
>> > Multiarch was mentioned in the original thread.
>
>> Not that I was happy with the original situation (filing myself a bug),
>> but all that "multiarch" blabla an
Josselin Mouette writes:
> Le lundi 29 juin 2009 à 17:30 +0200, Goswin von Brederlow a écrit :
>> > consider it as a âÂÂreleasableâ solution?
>>
>> Going to be.
>
> No, it is not going to be. The whole design needs work before it can be.
There is a better design. It is called multiarc
On Mon Jun 29 20:18, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Jun 2009, Norbert Preining wrote:
> > On Mo, 29 Jun 2009, Mark Brown wrote:
> > > > Figure out an acceptable option 4.
> > >
> > > Multiarch was mentioned in the original thread.
> >
> > Not that I was happy with the original situation (fil
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On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 17:31:17 +0200
Ludovic Brenta wrote:
> Neil Williams writes:
> > http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2009/05/msg00627.html
> >
> > One month on and I've heard nothing from the other maintainers with
> > packages that depend on gtk+extra2 or from anyone else interested in
> >
On Mon, 29 Jun 2009, Norbert Preining wrote:
> On Mo, 29 Jun 2009, Mark Brown wrote:
> > > Figure out an acceptable option 4.
> >
> > Multiarch was mentioned in the original thread.
>
> Not that I was happy with the original situation (filing myself a bug),
> but all that "multiarch" blabla and n
mli...@stacktrace.us wrote:
> So what exactly replaced base-config
It wasn't replaced, it was obsoleted by its maintainers (the installer
team) because it was no longer needed for new installs using the official
installer. It's functionality was _integrated in_ D-I, it was not
_replaced by_ D-I
So what exactly replaced base-config
base-config provided a set of useful utilities that could be run AFTER Debian
was installed to quickly fix certain aspect of a Debian system or to do quick
chrooted post install tasks.
I've been told by some that it had become "replaced by the Debian insta
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 06:12:20PM +0200, Norbert Preining wrote:
> On Mo, 29 Jun 2009, Mark Brown wrote:
> > Multiarch was mentioned in the original thread.
> Not that I was happy with the original situation (filing myself a bug),
> but all that "multiarch" blabla and nothing is going forward in
On Mo, 29 Jun 2009, Mark Brown wrote:
> > Figure out an acceptable option 4.
>
> Multiarch was mentioned in the original thread.
Not that I was happy with the original situation (filing myself a bug),
but all that "multiarch" blabla and nothing is going forward in this
direction, so this is not a
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 05:59:32PM +0200, Julien Cristau wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 17:30:35 +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> > So strike option 1 and 2 and what are you left with?
> Figure out an acceptable option 4.
Multiarch was mentioned in the original thread.
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On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 17:30:35 +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> There where 3 options:
>
> 1) ia32-libs + ia32-libs-gtk (+ ia32-libs-kde + ia32-libs-qt)
>ftp-master asked us to clean that up basically and
>"it would not pass NEW if it where uploaded now"
>
> 2) ia32-lib* packages i
Lionel Elie Mamane writes:
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 03:57:28PM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
>> Lionel Elie Mamane writes:
>
>>> While we are on the subject of ia32-apt-get, I'm not sure _what_
>>> happened, but after the upgrade of ia32-apt-get 14 to 18, suddenly
>>> aptitude had about 20
Le lundi 29 juin 2009 à 17:30 +0200, Goswin von Brederlow a écrit :
> > consider it as a âreleasableâ solution?
>
> Going to be.
No, it is not going to be. The whole design needs work before it can be.
> > How would aptitude users do now?
>
> apt-get update; aptitude
And how would synaptic
Mehdi Dogguy writes:
> Josselin Mouette wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> as the topic says, I noticed the new ia32-libs package depends on
>> ia32-apt-get.
>>
>
> I searched the list archive and found only one thread[1] related to
> ia32-apt-get. Correct me if I'm wrong but it was clear for me, when
> read
Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Hi,
>
> as the topic says, I noticed the new ia32-libs package depends on
> ia32-apt-get.
>
I searched the list archive and found only one thread[1] related to
ia32-apt-get. Correct me if I'm wrong but it was clear for me, when
reading comments, that the solution was n
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 03:57:28PM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> Lionel Elie Mamane writes:
>> While we are on the subject of ia32-apt-get, I'm not sure _what_
>> happened, but after the upgrade of ia32-apt-get 14 to 18, suddenly
>> aptitude had about 200 package in "upgradable" state that
Josselin Mouette (29/06/2009):
> All existing frontends use the same dependency resolution engine,
> except for aptitude. Installing a package with synaptic, apt-get,
> adept or gnome-app-install should give the same result.
cupt! cupt! cupt!
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Lionel Elie Mamane writes:
> While we are on the subject of ia32-apt-get, I'm not sure _what_
> happened, but after the upgrade of ia32-apt-get 14 to 18, suddenly
> aptitude had about 200 package in "upgradable" state that were not
> upgradable before.
ia32-apt-get encodes its own version into t
Le lundi 29 juin 2009 à 15:33 +0200, Hans-J. Ullrich a écrit :
> Hmm, o.k., apt-get is working for me, this is o.k., but I ask myself now:
> What
> is the recommended tool in future? Especially, as the handling of
> dependencies
> and packages in apt-get, aptitude and synaptic are in each diffe
> Aptitude’s (well-known) brokenness is irrelevant. There are many other
> APT frontents, like synaptic, which don’t have broken dependency
> management, and which will fail just as well with ia32-apt-get.
>
> I wonder how you could even think once that diverting apt-get was a good
> idea. If you
While we are on the subject of ia32-apt-get, I'm not sure _what_
happened, but after the upgrade of ia32-apt-get 14 to 18, suddenly
aptitude had about 200 package in "upgradable" state that were not
upgradable before.
The issue is I don't remember for sure what /etc/apt/sources.list
looked like be
Le lundi 29 juin 2009 à 15:14 +0200, Goswin von Brederlow a écrit :
> I never use aptitude and after doing a test upgrade of an older sid to
> current with aptitude I'm verry much affirmed on that. The last ~50
> packages I upgraded with "apt-get upgrade" again because the aptitude
> interface just
Didier Raboud writes:
> Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
>> Didier 'OdyX' Raboud writes:
>>> Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
Didier 'OdyX' Raboud writes:
> Norbert Preining wrote:
>> - calling /usr/share/ia32-apt-get/convert-all-sources.list
>
> Which horribly breaks with anything a
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Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> Didier 'OdyX' Raboud writes:
>> Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
>>> Didier 'OdyX' Raboud writes:
Norbert Preining wrote:
> - calling /usr/share/ia32-apt-get/convert-all-sources.list
Which horribly breaks with anything a little custom (proxies, custom
>
Didier 'OdyX' Raboud writes:
> Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
>
>> Didier 'OdyX' Raboud writes:
>>> Norbert Preining wrote:
- calling /usr/share/ia32-apt-get/convert-all-sources.list
>>>
>>> Which horribly breaks with anything a little custom (proxies, custom
>>> repositories, ...) and fills y
Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> Didier 'OdyX' Raboud writes:
>> Norbert Preining wrote:
>>> - calling /usr/share/ia32-apt-get/convert-all-sources.list
>>
>> Which horribly breaks with anything a little custom (proxies, custom
>> repositories, ...) and fills your /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ with ia32-a
Le lundi 29 juin 2009 à 11:54 +0200, Goswin von Brederlow a écrit :
> The reasons for ia32-apt-get are this:
[snip]
There are good reasons for ia32-apt-get to exist. But the implementation
is so horribly wrong that it gives me headaches only thinking about it.
It is nothing but a giant hack on whi
Didier 'OdyX' Raboud writes:
> Hi,
>
> Norbert Preining wrote:
>> On Mo, 29 Jun 2009, Josselin Mouette wrote:
>>> This package was already enough of a hack, but at least it worked
>>> without fiddling in horrible ways with the packaging system.
>>>
>>> How can we have a working wine or nsplugin
Steve Langasek wrote:
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 10:21:45PM -0500, Raphael Geissert wrote:
I just noticed I forgot to say something:
What won't change:
* Bash will still be used as the default interactive shells for users
* the sh symlink won't be modified on existing installations
I understa
Russ Allbery wrote:
"Giacomo A. Catenazzi" writes:
PS: I think that dash is a step toward a truly posix shell, but it is
not yet a posix shell: we still need fewer extentions. So in five/ten
year we will change it again.
I doubt that we're going to move in that direction farther than where
d
On Mo, 29 Jun 2009, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
> OdyX, who points to multiarch and suggests it is maybe time to go the real
> route instead…
Not that i am happy with the current status, but at least I managed to
get some things working again.
Best wishes
Norbert
--
Hi,
Norbert Preining wrote:
> On Mo, 29 Jun 2009, Josselin Mouette wrote:
>> This package was already enough of a hack, but at least it worked
>> without fiddling in horrible ways with the packaging system.
>>
>> How can we have a working wine or nspluginwrapper now?
>
> Not that I know about n
On Mo, 29 Jun 2009, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> This package was already enough of a hack, but at least it worked
> without fiddling in horrible ways with the packaging system.
>
> How can we have a working wine or nspluginwrapper now?
Not that I know about nspluginwrapper, but I got my skype work
Hi,
as the topic says, I noticed the new ia32-libs package depends on
ia32-apt-get.
This package was already enough of a hack, but at least it worked
without fiddling in horrible ways with the packaging system.
How can we have a working wine or nspluginwrapper now?
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