Re: Removing bzip2 support from apt due to rustification

[Russ Allbery]

Paul Wise  writes:
> On Sat, Jun 8, 2019 at 10:09 AM Russ Allbery wrote:

>> Please let us have internal conversations without using them to
>> prematurely pick fights with external maintainers.

> It definitely wasn't my intention to pick a fight.

Yeah, I didn't think that part was intentional since it seemed contrary to
everything I know about you, but that is the effect of pulling them into a
discussion that's negative about their work.

> I strongly disagree with hiding upstream problems from upstream
> developers. I wonder why our first reaction should be to have internal
> discussions instead of upstream discussions. To me that also seems rude,
> especially as we promised to communicate with upstream as part of the
> Social Contract.

It's a human psychology thing, I think, and it's specifically about the
critical or negative threads.

While it's a common maxim that you should only say positive things about
people and you should never say something that you wouldn't say to
someone's face, it's pretty unrealistic with real people in real
situations that we're going to achieve this 100% of the time.  Asking
everything anyone says in debian-devel be phrased in such a way that it
would be a productive thing to relay directly to an upstream project is
asking a lot.  It might be a lovely utopia if we all lived up to that
ideal, but, well, we won't.

I think it's helpful to give people a bit of space to acknowledge that the
first thing we say out of frustration or surprise or dismay may not be the
thoughtful and constructive thing we *want* to say.  There's a lot of
initial noise in reactions.

This isn't just for us; it's also for the upstreams involved.  It can be
demoralizing and frustrating to be pulled into negative discussions about
something you care about, and people have limited capacity to react
gracefully to such things.  Part of the goal is to be respectful of that
energy.  They will pick and choose what they read and what they choose to
react to in order to manage their energy, and in turn we, when reaching
out with constructive criticisms, will (or at least should) put more
effort into phrasing than we might when complaining about something to our
fellow project members.

I completely agree with you that if we have some piece of concrete
feedback for upstream, we should send that to upstream, particularly
before we act our beliefs or understandings.  It all may be a
misunderstanding, or we may be able to convince them to do something
differently, and this should be a collaboration and partnership.  I'm just
saying let's not do that as a raw feed of discussions that weren't written
with them as the intended audience.  The effort we put into reframing our
consensus or discussion into something more readily consumable by upstream
than a complaint thread is important and increases the chances that
discussion will go well.

We're not hiding anything -- the archives are public and if they really
want to read it all, they can.  We're creating social space for
politeness, which is, in part, maintaining the mutual grace of not
immediately telling other people everything negative that we think about
their work, only the things that are important and that survive some
further reflection.

-- 
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)   

Re: Removing bzip2 support from apt due to rustification

[Paul Wise]

On Sat, Jun 8, 2019 at 10:09 AM Russ Allbery wrote:

> Please let us have internal conversations without using them to
> prematurely pick fights with external maintainers.

It definitely wasn't my intention to pick a fight.

I strongly disagree with hiding upstream problems from upstream
developers. I wonder why our first reaction should be to have internal
discussions instead of upstream discussions. To me that also seems
rude, especially as we promised to communicate with upstream as part
of the Social Contract.

Thanks for your advice on this.

-- 
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

Re: Removing bzip2 support from apt due to rustification

[Russ Allbery]

Paul Wise  writes:

> That was me. I apologise for the confusion I generated. I get annoyed at
> people who don't CC the right people when sending mail. In this case I
> probably should have sent you Federico direct mail pointing at the
> archives instead.

This is called snitch-tagging in other forums like Twitter, and there's a
reason why it's considered extremely rude.

Please let us have internal conversations without using them to
prematurely pick fights with external maintainers.  If those maintainers
really want to see every Debian discussion about their work, they can
search or read the archives; they're all open.  But, quite wisely, they
generally don't.  That's because any group says all sorts of things in the
heat of the moment that the whole project may or may not agree with, or
that may change over time as we discuss them in more depth, or that, even
if we would stand by the sentiment, aren't phrased in a constructive or
productive way because it was an internal discussion (which can include
some blowing off of steam).

Dragging external developers into every Debian discussion concerning their
work doesn't lead to higher-quality and more inclusive discussion.  It
leads to people not talking on public lists at all and taking the same
conversation private, which is a loss for everyone.

-- 
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)   

Re: Removing bzip2 support from apt due to rustification

[Paul Wise]

On Sat, Jun 8, 2019 at 4:48 AM Julian Andres Klode wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 07, 2019 at 03:36:08PM -0500, Federico Mena Quintero wrote:
> > On Fri, 2019-06-07 at 11:48 +0800, Julian Andres Klode wrote:
> >
> > Why am I getting BCCed on this?  Is this low-key unsolicited
> > complaining like in https://mastodon.social/@juliank/102226793499538013
>
> I did not BCC you, someone must have bounced it to you. You might
> want to look at your mail headers to see how it got to you. I don't
> even know your email address (well now I do...). I hope whoever did
> it will step forward.

That was me. I apologise for the confusion I generated. I get annoyed
at people who don't CC the right people when sending mail. In this
case I probably should have sent you Federico direct mail pointing at
the archives instead.

-- 
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

Re: Question about Debian build infrastructure

[Matthias Klumpp]

Am Do., 6. Juni 2019 um 20:33 Uhr schrieb Kyle Edwards
:
>
> Hello all,
>
> I have been preparing Ubuntu releases for CMake on our own APT
> repository for several months now. We did this by preparing our own
> repository infrastructure - we have a machine that builds packages, and
> a machine that hosts an Aptly instance and pushes the repository to our
> web server. However, all of these things had a lot of manual steps to
> set up and use, and I'm wondering how Debian handles this problem. Here
> are some of my questions:

Hello! :-)
I am not involved with either the ftpmasters team or the wanna-build
admins, but I did set up infrastructure like this a few times already.
For the last time for the PureOS derivative and for the first time for
the Tanglu derivative where the goal was to explicitly "use what
Debian uses", so I gained quite a bit of insight into the process.
Some information I have may be dated by now though, so please correct
me in these cases.

> 1. What software do the official Debian repositories use? Do they use
> Aptly or reprepro or something else?

The main Debian repositories use dak, the Debian Archive Kit.
You can find more information on it at [1] and get its code on Salsa at [2].
Dak was written specifically for Debian's needs and was in the past
quite Debian-specific with lots of hardcoding of Debianisms (like
suite names) and expectations on the host environment. This has
changed quite a bit in the past few years, and while there are still a
bunch of Debian-hardcoded parts, dak is generally useful for
non-Debian repositories as well.
Its setup is still orders of magnitudes more complex than using
reprepro or Aptly (you will need to write some dedicated scripts for
your distribution), but for huge package repositories it is from my
experience one of the most performant and painless options. You also
gain all the features the Debian archive has instantly.
If your repository is small though, using dak may be overkill - it
really shines if you have thousands of packages, with just a few
reprepro could get the job done easier with less manual work.

> Is there a downloadable OS image which comes with this pre-set up?

No, unfortunately not.

> Does it run on a cron job or does it
> have some sort of continuous monitoring? (We have ours run on a cron
> job every 10 minutes.)

Dak actions are triggered by multiple cronjobs which run different
actions. There is one to process incoming uploads which runs roughly
every 15min, hourly, daily, weekly and monthly cleanup and
statistics-generating actions as well as the "dinstall" task which
will run about 4 times a day and publish new packages in the archive
so users can access them. The dinstall task is actually comprised of
many individual actions, which deal with different aspects of the
archive (e.g. translations and AppStream metadata), so summarizing it
is not that easy.
In order to not have the autobuilder network wait on publication, dak
can maintain special queues for the builders to fetch packages from
prior to them being published officially.

> 2. According to https://wiki.debian.org/BuilddSetup, there seems to be
> a distinction between the build broker (wanna-build) and the build
> workers (buildd). Do either of these roles have their own OS images one
> can download?

AFAIK there are no OS images, but I would bet that the buildd machines
have an Ansible recipe or something similar somewhere, as those are
continuously updated and refreshed. I would strongly advise against
using wanna-build for anything - when I tried to use it in the past
that attempt turned out to be virtually impossible because there was
no documentation on it and it heavily relied on grown structures
within Debian itself. If you dig into it, you will also find some
interesting historical trivia, e.g. apparently in the past an
autobuilder was building a package and then sending the build log to a
developer, which then looked over it, signed it and submitted it back
to get the build actually accepted in the archive.
So, IMHO wanna-build is really not something that should be used in
new projects...

> 3. I understand that source packages are signed by developers before
> being sent to the build farm, but what about the binary packages built
> by the build farm and uploaded to the repository? Do the build farm
> servers have their own GPG keys?

Indeed they have - they sign the package with their own key which is
valid for binary uploads of the builder's respective architecture.

> Does the repository server recognize
> these keys?

Yes, they do - builders are registered with dak as well.

> Thanks in advance, all this info would be helpful for me as I expand
> our Ubuntu build infrastructure.

I don't know how about the scale of your build farm, but if it is a
small-ish amount of packages, using Jenkins+reprepro may be all you
need. For bigger things, I had some success with Debile[3] in the past
which was building all of Tanglu for a while and was used 

Accepted apng2gif 1.8-1 (source) into experimental

[Marcos Vinicius Scherer]

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Maintainer: Debian QA Group 
Changed-By: Marcos Vinicius Scherer 
Changes:
 apng2gif (1.8-1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * QA upload.
   * Set Debian QA Group as maintainer. (see #920071)
   * Using new DH level format. Consequently:
   - debian/compat: removed.
   - debian/control: changed from 'debhelper' to 'debhelper-compat' in
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Accepted cfget 0.19-2 (source) into experimental

[Joao Eriberto Mota Filho]

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Changed-By: Joao Eriberto Mota Filho 
Changes:
 cfget (0.19-2) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * QA upload.
   * Set Debian QA Group as maintainer.
   * Using new DH level format. Consequently:
   - debian/compat: removed.
   - debian/control: changed from 'debhelper' to 'debhelper-compat' in
 Build-Depends field and bumped level to 12.
   * debian/control: bumped Standards-Version to 4.3.0.
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   * debian/patches/10_fix-manpage-spelling.patch: added to fix a spelling
 error in manpage.
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Re: Suspending Offer to Reimburse Expenses for Attending Future Bug Squashing Parties

[Holger Levsen]

btw,

i'd also be in favor of raising this to 100 Euro or British Pounds or
Swiss Francs, or whatever the currency is, where 90-110 $something has
the most value.

contributions are our highest value.


-- 
tschau,
Holger

---
   holger@(debian|reproducible-builds|layer-acht).org
   PGP fingerprint: B8BF 5413 7B09 D35C F026 FE9D 091A B856 069A AA1C


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Suspending Offer to Reimburse Expenses for Attending Future Bug Squashing Parties

[Holger Levsen]

On Wed, Jun 05, 2019 at 09:19:03AM -0400, Sam Hartman wrote:
> Handling reimbursements for BSPs has significantly crossed my threshhold
> for not being fun with our current procedures.  We absolutely should
> reimburse developers attending BSPs

yes! why don't you just say 'yes' to all requests written with somewhat
proper grammar^w^w^w^wfrom people with a bit of searchable debian
activity?! that would cost, what 10k a year, and would just be yay.

i'd be very surprised if it would raise to more than 20k even if we
announced this *everywhere allthetime*. and if/when that happens, more
yay, we increased contributors and contributions!

i'd be in favor. go BSPs!


-- 
tschau,
Holger

---
   holger@(debian|reproducible-builds|layer-acht).org
   PGP fingerprint: B8BF 5413 7B09 D35C F026 FE9D 091A B856 069A AA1C


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Accepted waffle 1.6.0-1 (source) into experimental

[Jordan Justen]

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Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Jordan Justen 
Changed-By: Jordan Justen 
Changes:
 waffle (1.6.0-1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release.
 - wflinfo can output JSON [Dylan Baker]
 - EGL/GBM: Add support for modifiers [Jason Ekstrand]
   * d/control: Move Vcs-* to salsa.debian.org/xorg-team
   * d/watch: Update watch file for upstream freedesktop.org move
   * d/control: Update Standards-Version to 4.3.0
   * d/copyright: Use debian doc https url
   * d/compat: Update from 9 to 11
   * d/compat: Update debhelper from 9 to 11
   * debian: Add pgp verification with Chad Versace's key
   * debian: Add Dylan Baker's gpg key for 1.6.0 release
   * d/watch: Update version to 4
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Accepted xbill 2.1-9 (source) into unstable

[Reiner Herrmann]

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Format: 1.8
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 22:38:09 +0200
Source: xbill
Architecture: source
Version: 2.1-9
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Games Team 
Changed-By: Reiner Herrmann 
Closes: 632528 900866 925861
Changes:
 xbill (2.1-9) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Team upload.
 .
   [ Helmut Grohne ]
   * Fix FTCBFS: Export CC for ./configure. (Closes: #900866)
 .
   [ Reiner Herrmann ]
   * Apply patch by Julian Taylor to support building with --as-needed.
 This also fixes the FTBFS with gcc9.
 (Closes: #632528, #925861)
   * Bump Standards-Version to 4.3.0.
 - Drop obsolete menu file.
 - Change priority from extra to optional.
   * Depend on debhelper-compat 12.
 - Drop compat file.
 - --parallel is now default.
   * Declare that d/rules requires root (because of chown).
   * Remove trailing whitespace in d/changelog.
   * Enable all hardening options.
   * Add keywords to desktop file.
   * Convert d/copyright to copyright format 1.0.
 .
   [ Markus Koschany ]
   * Move the package to salsa.debian.org.
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Re: Removing bzip2 support from apt due to rustification

[Federico Mena Quintero]

On Fri, 2019-06-07 at 22:48 +0200, Julian Andres Klode wrote:
> I did not BCC you, someone must have bounced it to you. You might
> want to look at your mail headers to see how it got to you. I don't
> even know your email address (well now I do...). I hope whoever did
> it will step forward.

You are correct.  I apologize for assuming it was you who BCCed me and
for making that accusation.

  Federico

Re: Debian, so ugly and unwieldy!

[Adam Borowski]

On Fri, Jun 07, 2019 at 12:32:54PM -0700, James Lu wrote:
> >> +1 for Materia (materia-gtk-theme), especially the dark variant. It's a
> >> simple, flat dark theme that preserves contrast without being having a
> >> pitch black background, more so than Arc-Dark and even Adwaita-Dark. The
> >> widget effects might be a bit much for some but I don't mind them.
> > 
> > Flat!  Die, heretic!  :)
> 
> I don't think I prefer *flat* as much as I prefer *simple*. Vertex[2][3]
> is my favourite non-flat dark theme, if you're looking for something
> like that.
> 
> [2]: https://github.com/horst3180/vertex-theme
> [3]: https://www.gnome-look.org/p/1013757/

It has that narrow scroller thingy, which I hate.

But it's also something a fellow d-devel poster likes that is NOT PACKAGED,
which I hate even more.  :)

So I wonder if we should fix the second thing.

> > Yeah, but with the emergence of dark themes on Windows and Mac, such web
> > pages have mostly been fixed.
> 
> This is actually a Firefox bug,
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1283086
> 
> Most web page elements are fine - it's just forms and buttons that are
> broken since Firefox renders them using the system theme instead.

There's a CSS fix-up which I have on my primary desktop (and the old box I
copies it from), but that's not something set up by default.

Fixes that are not applied, live on a single computer for a single person,
thus as the distribution is concerned _don't exist_.  That fixup is a hack
that doesnt't detect theme so it's not universal thus can't be upstreamed.

> >> I use Noto Sans, which supports a lot of languages out of the box and is
> >> the default in at least Cinnamon AFAIK.
> > 
> > Noto has one technical problem: it registers hundreds of font family ones,
> > making font selection dialogs useless if you have Noto installed.
> > 
> > It'd be better if we had just "Noto Sans", "Noto Serif" and "Noto Mono"
> > instead of "Noto Southwestern Reformed Klingon" as a separate family.
> 
> Fair enough; I'm not familiar with the technical decisions behind this.
> For example it seems my GTK apps can display Chinese text fine using
> "Noto Sans", while KDE/Qt needs "Noto Sans CJK" for it to not show as a
> square?

Could someone with some fontconfig skills chime in?

> > Sub-pixel is awesome, but doesn't work right if your monitors have different
> > orientations (and with both code and almost all webpages being better in
> > portrait, you want one monitor in lanscape and 1 or 2 in portrait).
> > 
> > Not an issue with laptops, of course.
> > 
> 
> Or you have a tiny desk like me and can only fit one monitor :(
> No one-size-fits-all solution here, I guess.

Only the monitor's leg must fit, thus on any real desk you can fit at least
two big ones.  Then there are VESA stands.

I see no excuse to not have at least two big screens.  Your eyes are worth
more than a bit of money and effort.

Just a note: 1920x1200 is the biggest resolution handled by common non-new
cables, GPUs and screens.  When breaching that limit, you need dual-link,
which requires a special more expensive DVI cable which HDMI doesn't
support.  So only a sufficiently new version of HDMI (which is surprisingly
ill spread -- and you need all three components to support it) or
DisplayPort can work correctly.  Upon seeing juicy dirt-cheap 30" 2560x1600s
for sale I rushed and bought two without testing -- bad move.

> >> One of the issues with hardcoding QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME=gtk across
> >> sessions is that it conflicts with user settings if they prefer
> >> something else.[2]
> > 
> > Yeah, I have it set up on my old desktop, and just copied ~ over when
> > installing another, but that'd be inappropriate for this tiny Pinebook.  So
> > I ended up with no integration between GTK and QT, and this is one of
> > complaints that pushed me to start this thread.
> > 
> > This should be done by default.
> 
> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'm not super familiar with how sessions work, but qt5ct in
> Debian is packaged in a way that only enables it if no
> QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME was set previously. Perhaps a smart DE would use a
> similar strategy if it wants to set QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME=gtk2. I don't
> recall how newest Cinnamon does this.

A safe assumption is that a GTK-based DE (xfce, mate, ...) would want QT
programs to comply, while a QT-based one wants a native theme.  People don't
tend to flip DEs on a single machine much.

> > Meh, I'd say it's not an issue on any screen-attached machine.  This
> > Pinebook is at the very bottom, yet has gobs of space for any system files. 
> > I'd need to start piling up _data_ to possibly exhaust it.
> 
> I'm in agreement here because I use Qt apps frequently (VLC, KeePassXC)
> even on a GTK based desktop.

When the web browser takes 2-4GB of RAM, the cost of an extra GUI toolkit
becomes infinitessimally small.


Meow!
-- 
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ What Would Jesus Do, MUD/MMORPG edition:
⣾⠁⢰⠒⠀⣿⡁ • multiplay with an admin char to benefit your mortal
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ • abuse 

Re: Removing bzip2 support from apt due to rustification

[Federico Mena Quintero]

On Fri, 2019-06-07 at 11:48 +0800, Julian Andres Klode wrote:

Why am I getting BCCed on this?  Is this low-key unsolicited
complaining like in https://mastodon.social/@juliank/102226793499538013
 ?

> seeing that Federico Mena Quintero has taken over bzip2 development
> and is in the process of porting it to Rust[1], we should consider
> removing bzip2 support from apt, dpkg, etc. following the release
> of buster.

What Debian decides to do is up to them.  Please keep me out of this
discussion.

Also, may I suggest that you monitor 
https://gitlab.com/federicomenaquintero/bzip2/issues/6 and especially
read my replies to that issue.

Julian, do not contact me again regarding bzip2 and Rust.  A compatible
C version is going to be available by default.

  Federico

Accepted bbtime 0.1.5-14 (source) into experimental

[Reiner Herrmann]

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Hash: SHA512

Format: 1.8
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 16:10:51 +0200
Source: bbtime
Architecture: source
Version: 0.1.5-14
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian QA Group 
Changed-By: Reiner Herrmann 
Closes: 631747 925636
Changes:
 bbtime (0.1.5-14) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * QA upload.
   * Convert packaging to source format 3.0 (quilt).
   * Convert to dh-style build.
   * Depend on debhelper-compat 12.
 - drop dependency on autotools-dev.
   * Bump Standards-Version to 4.3.0.
   * Fix build with GCC9, by moving the linked X11 library
 to the correct place. (Closes: #925636)
 This also fixes building with --as-needed. (Closes: #631747)
   * Drop d/bbtime.files.
   * Enable all hardening options.
   * Convert d/copyright to copyright format 1.0.
   * Don't install README.bbtime to /etc.
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Re: Removing bzip2 support from apt due to rustification

[Michael Banck]

Hi,

On Fri, Jun 07, 2019 at 09:54:01AM +0200, Xavier wrote:
> Le 07/06/2019 à 09:48, Mo Zhou a écrit :
> > On 2019-06-06 21:44, Boyuan Yang wrote:
> >> I do remember there's still some source packages / binary packages in 
> >> Debian
> >> using the bzip2 format. If we are going to do that (which looks reasonable,
> >> BTW), a serious archive-wide scan should be made in advance to see how 
> >> great
> >> the impact is and we need to deal with each occurrence.
> > 
> > Correction: s/some packages/massive amount of packages/
> > 
> > I quickly scanned my local Sid (amd64+source) mirror:
> > 
> > /l/M/debian ❯❯❯ find . -type f -name '*.orig.tar.bz2' | wc -l
> > 1338
> > /l/M/debian ❯❯❯ find . -type f -name '*.debian.tar.bz2' | wc -l
> > 57
> 
> Hello,
> 
> uscan can be modified to repackage all tar.bz2 upstream archives to
> tar.xz ones (as for .zip files). If we decide to remove bz2, please open
> a BTS against devscripts and I'll do the work.

If upstream ships a .bz2 I wouldn't want uscan to unilaterally repackage
it to something else, so -1 from to do that automatically.


Michael

Re: Debian, so ugly and unwieldy!

[Adam Borowski]

On Fri, Jun 07, 2019 at 10:57:17PM +0200, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> Adam Borowski - 07.06.19, 21:09:
> > On Fri, Jun 07, 2019 at 11:24:03AM -0700, James Lu wrote:
> > > I use Noto Sans, which supports a lot of languages out of the box
> > > and is the default in at least Cinnamon AFAIK.
> > 
> > Noto has one technical problem: it registers hundreds of font family
> > ones, making font selection dialogs useless if you have Noto
> > installed.
> > 
> > It'd be better if we had just "Noto Sans", "Noto Serif" and "Noto
> > Mono" instead of "Noto Southwestern Reformed Klingon" as a separate
> > family.
> 
> Also if you remove packages
> 
> - fonts-noto-extra
> - fonts-noto-ui-extra
> - fonts-noto-cjk
> - fonts-noto-cjk-extra#
> 
> ?
> 
> I just did so here and font selection requester is much more palatable 
> than before.

It's not nice to drop language support.

I guess it'be nice to contact upstream and/or patch it in our packages.

I don't think there's a reason for the user to manually select a particular
writing script, fontconfig is supposed to do the work automatically.


Meow!
-- 
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Sometimes you benefit from delegating stuff.  For example,
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ this way I get to be a vegetarian.
⠈⠳⣄

Accepted pencil2d 0.6.4-1 (source) into experimental

[Mattia Rizzolo]

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Version: 0.6.4-1
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Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Mattia Rizzolo 
Changed-By: Mattia Rizzolo 
Changes:
 pencil2d (0.6.4-1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream version 0.6.4.
   * Drop the post-release-doc-update patch, now that upstream updates the
 relevant doc before the release.
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Accepted systemd 242-2 (source) into experimental

[Michael Biebl]

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Format: 1.8
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 22:41:50 +0200
Source: systemd
Architecture: source
Version: 242-2
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian systemd Maintainers 

Changed-By: Michael Biebl 
Closes: 918606
Changes:
 systemd (242-2) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   [ Michael Biebl ]
   * Drop dependency on lsb-base.
 It is only needed when booting with sysvinit and initscripts, but
 initscripts already Depends on lsb-base (see #864999).
   * Stop removing enablement symlinks in /etc/systemd/system.
 With v242 this is no longer necessary as `ninja install` will no longer
 create those symlinks.
   * Replace manual removal of halt-local.service with upstream patch
 .
   [ Dimitri John Ledkov ]
   * Build manpages in .deb variant.
 Upstream snapshots are switching to building manpages off by default.
 .
   [ Luca Boccassi ]
   * Enable portabled and install related files in systemd-container.
 Keep disabled for the udeb profile. (Closes: #918606)
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Re: Debian, so ugly and unwieldy!

[Martin Steigerwald]

Adam Borowski - 07.06.19, 21:09:
> On Fri, Jun 07, 2019 at 11:24:03AM -0700, James Lu wrote:
[…]
> > > * default font is ugly and poorly hinted -- the latter is
> > > especially jarring> > 
> > >   on a low-resolution screen I'm at right now, the former still
> > >   applies to one's proper battlestation at home/work.  Tarzeau
> > >   recently had some interesting rants, but even Quicksand that
> > >   recently got added (during hard freeze...) to desktop-base is
> > >   pretty nice.  Or, if you want something more conventional,
> > >   Clear Sans (Intel Clear).  Or, Inter.  Or...
> > >   
> > >   => Actually configure a good font by default.  Quicksand looks
> > >   fine.
> > 
> > I use Noto Sans, which supports a lot of languages out of the box
> > and is the default in at least Cinnamon AFAIK.
> 
> Noto has one technical problem: it registers hundreds of font family
> ones, making font selection dialogs useless if you have Noto
> installed.
> 
> It'd be better if we had just "Noto Sans", "Noto Serif" and "Noto
> Mono" instead of "Noto Southwestern Reformed Klingon" as a separate
> family.

Also if you remove packages

- fonts-noto-extra
- fonts-noto-ui-extra
- fonts-noto-cjk
- fonts-noto-cjk-extra#

?

I just did so here and font selection requester is much more palatable 
than before.

Still installed are:

- fonts-noto
- fonts-noto-color-emoji
- fonts-noto-core
- fonts-noto-hinted
- fonts-noto-mono
- fonts-noto-ui-core
- fonts-noto-unhinted

For certain locale selections during installation it might be necessary 
to install more than that.

Ciao,
-- 
Martin

Accepted dcmtk 3.6.4-2.1 (source) into unstable

[Mathieu Malaterre]

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Format: 1.8
Date: Tue, 28 May 2019 21:39:19 +0200
Source: dcmtk
Binary: dcmtk libdcmtk14 libdcmtk-dev dcmtk-doc
Architecture: source
Version: 3.6.4-2.1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Med Packaging Team 

Changed-By: Mathieu Malaterre 
Description:
 dcmtk  - OFFIS DICOM toolkit command line utilities
 dcmtk-doc  - OFFIS DICOM toolkit documentation
 libdcmtk-dev - OFFIS DICOM toolkit development libraries and headers
 libdcmtk14 - OFFIS DICOM toolkit runtime libraries
Closes: 923433
Changes:
 dcmtk (3.6.4-2.1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Non-maintainer upload.
   * Revert to convenient charls copy for now. Closes: #923433
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Re: Removing bzip2 support from apt due to rustification

[Julian Andres Klode]

On Fri, Jun 07, 2019 at 03:36:08PM -0500, Federico Mena Quintero wrote:
> On Fri, 2019-06-07 at 11:48 +0800, Julian Andres Klode wrote:
> 
> Why am I getting BCCed on this?  Is this low-key unsolicited
> complaining like in https://mastodon.social/@juliank/102226793499538013

I did not BCC you, someone must have bounced it to you. You might
want to look at your mail headers to see how it got to you. I don't
even know your email address (well now I do...). I hope whoever did
it will step forward.

The mastodon post was an odd thing of sorts, as it reads like it
was addressed to you, but was more a general post, missing the
introductory "With". The highlighting there was supposed to allow
people to see more context, not to direct the message at you.

Sorry about that.

-- 
debian developer - deb.li/jak | jak-linux.org - free software dev
ubuntu core developer  i speak de, en

Accepted fmit 1.2.6-0.1~exp1 (source) into experimental

[Boyuan Yang]

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Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2019 14:27:36 -0400
Source: fmit
Architecture: source
Version: 1.2.6-0.1~exp1
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: John Wright 
Changed-By: Boyuan Yang 
Closes: 802924 874884 899420
Changes:
 fmit (1.2.6-0.1~exp1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * Non-maintainer upload.
   * New upstream release 1.2.6. (Closes: #899420)
 + Do not translate "default" as device name.
   (Closes: #802924)
   * debian/control:
 + Bump debhelper compat to v12.
 + Use Rules-Requires-Root: no.
 + Update build-dependency and use qmake toolchain.
 + Update build-dependency and use Qt5 toolchain.
   (Closes: #874884)
   * debian/rules:
 + Enable full hardening.
   * debian/menu: Dropped.
   * debian/dirs: Dropped.
   * debian/copyright: Refresh information.
   * debian/source/local-options: Removed, no longer necessary.
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Re: Debian, so ugly and unwieldy!

[James Lu]

On 2019-06-07 12:09 p.m., Adam Borowski wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 07, 2019 at 11:24:03AM -0700, James Lu wrote:
>> As far as I know, Debian mostly uses default upstream desktop defaults,
>> so these concerns apply there too. Evidently some DEs (Plasma, Cinnamon)
>> focus on looks out of the box more than others.
> 
> Yeah, and when upstream defaults are not good enough, it's the
> distribution's task to improve them, just like with any other package.  It's
> not a bugfix but integration issue, thus distribution is a _better_ place to
> do so.
> 

Agreed here.

>>> I also hate with a passion so-called "UX designers".  Those are folks who
>>> created Windows 8's Metro tiles, lightgray-on-white "Material Design" flat
>>> unmarked controls, and so on.  They work from a Mac while not having to
>>> actually use what they produce.
>>
>> I respectfully disagree in the case of actual Android devices, but
>> everyone has different preferences.
> 
>>From your further comments, I see you prefer flat stuff, which I disdain.
> And here's a case where both preferences can easily be made installable,
> preferably even in default install.  It's the maintainers' job to curate a
> good set that satisfies every major side without being bloated.
> 
> And which one should be the overall default, is a matter for a flamewar. 
> One that'd I greatly welcome over our usual incendiary fare.

+1 GTK themes are very lightweight, much more so than icon themes. My
personal collection[1] includes a bundle of both.

[1]: https://deb.utopia-repository.org/sid_list.html#utopia-themes_all

>>
>> +1 for Materia (materia-gtk-theme), especially the dark variant. It's a
>> simple, flat dark theme that preserves contrast without being having a
>> pitch black background, more so than Arc-Dark and even Adwaita-Dark. The
>> widget effects might be a bit much for some but I don't mind them.
> 
> Flat!  Die, heretic!  :)

I don't think I prefer *flat* as much as I prefer *simple*. Vertex[2][3]
is my favourite non-flat dark theme, if you're looking for something
like that.

[2]: https://github.com/horst3180/vertex-theme
[3]: https://www.gnome-look.org/p/1013757/

>  
>> Like most well-maintained themes it supports GTK2/3 and a plethora of
>> desktops, as well as Qt5 natively via a 3rd party Kvantum theme
>> (materia-kde).
> 
> I have bad memories wrt trying to make QT use GTK3 themes -- unless that has
> improved, GTK2 support is a nice thing so QT can use that.
> 
>> My only gripe with this setup is that some apps like Firefox don't
>> behave nicely using dark themed GTK themes only; things like buttons and
>> input fields end up having black on black text, so I end up overriding
>> it to start with GTK_THEME=Materia (the standard/mixed light and dark
>> version)
> 
> Yeah, but with the emergence of dark themes on Windows and Mac, such web
> pages have mostly been fixed.

This is actually a Firefox bug,
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1283086

Most web page elements are fine - it's just forms and buttons that are
broken since Firefox renders them using the system theme instead.

> 
>>> * the default icon theme is fugly
>>>
>>>   => Default to eg. faenza?
>>
>> I like Numix-Circle but I'm a bit biased there ☺. Faenza, Moka, and
>> Papirus are all beautiful icon themes that the desktop's unify look and
>> feel. But this unification makes some people upset[1], though I very
>> much disagree with their opinion personally.
>>
>> [1]:
>> https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2019/05/open-letter-stop-gtk-theming-distros
> 
> I hate hate hate this approach.  Especially, I hate "apps".  I want
> programs.  The latter can integrate with the desktop, and don't have feeding
> the developer's ego as the primary purpose.
>

I'm not much of a GNOME fan either!

>> I use Noto Sans, which supports a lot of languages out of the box and is
>> the default in at least Cinnamon AFAIK.
> 
> Noto has one technical problem: it registers hundreds of font family ones,
> making font selection dialogs useless if you have Noto installed.
> 
> It'd be better if we had just "Noto Sans", "Noto Serif" and "Noto Mono"
> instead of "Noto Southwestern Reformed Klingon" as a separate family.

Fair enough; I'm not familiar with the technical decisions behind this.
For example it seems my GTK apps can display Chinese text fine using
"Noto Sans", while KDE/Qt needs "Noto Sans CJK" for it to not show as a
square?

> 
> Sub-pixel is awesome, but doesn't work right if your monitors have different
> orientations (and with both code and almost all webpages being better in
> portrait, you want one monitor in lanscape and 1 or 2 in portrait).
> 
> Not an issue with laptops, of course.
> 

Or you have a tiny desk like me and can only fit one monitor :(
No one-size-fits-all solution here, I guess.

>>> * CSD is still a thing.  No, your special program shouldn't get to ignore
>>>   system theme, put controls in wrong order, miss some controls, not respond
>>>   to minimize/etc if it's currently busy, 

Re: DebConf19: Join our local crowdfunding campaign until June 15th

[Paulo Henrique de Lima Santana]

On 07/06/2019 18:46, Pranav Jain wrote:
> Probably this one: https://www.catarse.me/debconf19

Ops, thanks :-)

I had forgotten it.

Best regards,

-- 
Paulo Henrique de Lima Santana (phls)
Curitiba - Brasil
Debian Developer
Diretor do Instituto para Conservação de Tecnologias Livres
Membro da Comunidade Curitiba Livre
Site: http://www.phls.com.br
GNU/Linux user: 228719  GPG ID: 0443C450

Organizador da DebConf19 - Conferência Mundial de Desenvolvedores(as) Debian
Curitiba - 21 a 28 de julho de 2019
http://debconf19.debconf.org



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Debian, so ugly and unwieldy!

[Adam Borowski]

On Fri, Jun 07, 2019 at 11:24:03AM -0700, James Lu wrote:
> As far as I know, Debian mostly uses default upstream desktop defaults,
> so these concerns apply there too. Evidently some DEs (Plasma, Cinnamon)
> focus on looks out of the box more than others.

Yeah, and when upstream defaults are not good enough, it's the
distribution's task to improve them, just like with any other package.  It's
not a bugfix but integration issue, thus distribution is a _better_ place to
do so.

> > I also hate with a passion so-called "UX designers".  Those are folks who
> > created Windows 8's Metro tiles, lightgray-on-white "Material Design" flat
> > unmarked controls, and so on.  They work from a Mac while not having to
> > actually use what they produce.
> 
> I respectfully disagree in the case of actual Android devices, but
> everyone has different preferences.

>From your further comments, I see you prefer flat stuff, which I disdain.
And here's a case where both preferences can easily be made installable,
preferably even in default install.  It's the maintainers' job to curate a
good set that satisfies every major side without being bloated.

And which one should be the overall default, is a matter for a flamewar. 
One that'd I greatly welcome over our usual incendiary fare.
 
> > For example:
> > * our XFCE's layout has a thinnish bar with actually useful controls (menu
> >   button, window list, desktop list, clock, systray, logout) at the top...
> >   plus a tall redundant "OSX dock" that takes a lot of screen real estate.
> >   It's too much even on 4:3 aspect ratio, and on currently prevailing 16:9
> >   any loss to vertical space is bad.  Most code, web pages, human images,
> >   etc, benefit from a portrait rather than landscape layout...
> 
> I've pushed defaults on my systems for quite a while that change the
> Xfce panel setup to look more like Windows (or the default Plasma 5 /
> Cinnamon look). Whisker-menu also provides speedy search and app
> pinning, a feature I can't live without migrating fresh from Windows 7.
> (It also takes up less space than the default menus!)

For space, I'd get rid of the "Applications" label (we all know what a Start
menu is -- and kids will learn before they even walk properly).
 
> > * the default theme has a thin disappearing poorly marked scroller.  This is
> >   nasty with a bad touchpad (laptops), high-resolution small screen (PDAs).
> > 
> > 
> > * people tend to use computers with only limited lighting.  The hacklab I'm
> >   in right now has mostly covered windows (and even some artificial light
> >   from the above!); at work opening window blinds too much can result in you
> >   getting murdered; I for one prefer to hack after midnight rather than at
> >   insane times like morning, etc.  And this is not just hackers like us --
> >   even Windows and Mac brag about "night mode", random websites have this as
> >   well, etc.  On the other hand, if we install some themes by default they
> >   have at most lightish grey background.  I packaged
> >   dark{cold,mint}-gtk-theme with real black, perhaps there are better ones?
> > 
> >   => Let's install by default a black theme, perhaps even enable it by 
> > default?
> 
> +1 for Materia (materia-gtk-theme), especially the dark variant. It's a
> simple, flat dark theme that preserves contrast without being having a
> pitch black background, more so than Arc-Dark and even Adwaita-Dark. The
> widget effects might be a bit much for some but I don't mind them.

Flat!  Die, heretic!  :)
 
> Like most well-maintained themes it supports GTK2/3 and a plethora of
> desktops, as well as Qt5 natively via a 3rd party Kvantum theme
> (materia-kde).

I have bad memories wrt trying to make QT use GTK3 themes -- unless that has
improved, GTK2 support is a nice thing so QT can use that.

> My only gripe with this setup is that some apps like Firefox don't
> behave nicely using dark themed GTK themes only; things like buttons and
> input fields end up having black on black text, so I end up overriding
> it to start with GTK_THEME=Materia (the standard/mixed light and dark
> version)

Yeah, but with the emergence of dark themes on Windows and Mac, such web
pages have mostly been fixed.

> > * the default icon theme is fugly
> > 
> >   => Default to eg. faenza?
> 
> I like Numix-Circle but I'm a bit biased there ☺. Faenza, Moka, and
> Papirus are all beautiful icon themes that the desktop's unify look and
> feel. But this unification makes some people upset[1], though I very
> much disagree with their opinion personally.
> 
> [1]:
> https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2019/05/open-letter-stop-gtk-theming-distros

I hate hate hate this approach.  Especially, I hate "apps".  I want
programs.  The latter can integrate with the desktop, and don't have feeding
the developer's ego as the primary purpose.

> > * default font is ugly and poorly hinted -- the latter is especially jarring
> >   on a low-resolution screen I'm at right now, the former still 

Re: Debian, so ugly and unwieldy!

[Martin Steigerwald]

Adam Borowski - 07.06.19, 17:24:
> This is about GUI appearance and ergonomy.
> 
> I'll concentrate at XFCE, as I consider GNOME3's UI a lost cause, thus
> I'd find it hard to bring constructive arguments there.

Similar to you I do not "get" GNOME 3. I have no idea why I would like 
to use it. But others may see this quite differently.

> I also hate with a passion so-called "UX designers".  Those are folks
> who created Windows 8's Metro tiles, lightgray-on-white "Material
> Design" flat unmarked controls, and so on.  They work from a Mac
> while not having to actually use what they produce.

So far I see KDE's visual design team does a lot of good work, but there 
are also things I do not like, like the Androidization of scrollbars: 
They are much thinner in Plasma than they were.

Up to Android 7 I still think it is in general a very bad idea to take 
GUI ideas from Android.

> For example:
> * our XFCE's layout has a thinnish bar with actually useful controls
> (menu button, window list, desktop list, clock, systray, logout) at
> the top... plus a tall redundant "OSX dock" that takes a lot of
> screen real estate. It's too much even on 4:3 aspect ratio, and on
> currently prevailing 16:9 any loss to vertical space is bad.  Most
> code, web pages, human images, etc, benefit from a portrait rather
> than landscape layout...
> 
>   => Can't we move two useful pieces from the dock to the top bar?

That is why I move the main bar to one of the sides of the screen. On my 
laptop on the left. However on my laptop I use the full screen estate 
anyway as the side bar and I also have a top bar for activities only 
side out when I move near the screen border. That would definitely not 
suitable as a default however.

General reply to your idea:

I am not using XFCE, but Plasma… however what you outline spurs a lot of 
questions.

Adapt all desktop environments Debian delivers? Or just the Debian 
default DE – that is still GNOME 3, isn't it? If it is, do you argue to 
change the default DE again? I do not use GNOME 3 on any of my machines 
and one can argue whether it is the right default, but uh oh… that could 
lead to an epic thread in debian-devel :)

I am a bit reluctant about adapting upstream defaults too much. Why? It 
is more of a general feeling, but one reason would be that when the 
differences are huge it could make it more difficult for Debian users to 
interact with upstream regarding bug reports and so.

And then… reach an agreement on what would be the best adaptions. 
Especially as different desktop environments in Debian are maintained by 
different, in part already quite under-staffed teams. 

Also… large adaptions of all, or at least all major desktop environments 
Debian delivers would require a lot of effort. Debian Qt/KDE team is just 
a few people for a huge lot of packages. I pretty much bet the interest 
in implementing huger changes to upstream default would be quite 
limited.

However… first impressions count and sure if Debian by defaults looks bad 
and has usability issues… then that is also a first impression. Last I 
checked Plasma was quite okay.

-- 
Martin

Re: Debian, so ugly and unwieldy!

[Jonathan Carter]

Hey Adam

On 2019/06/07 17:24, Adam Borowski wrote:> I'll concentrate at XFCE


I proposed most of what you said in this email (and some more) in the
#debian-xfce channel a few months ago. They were actually surprisingly
open to having such config changes and suggested I prepare a proposal, I
was going to put something together but ran out of time before buster
freeze happened, but they're certainly more open to this than the gnome
team was in the past (and I'm hoping that has changed too over the years).

> * the default icon theme is fugly
> 
>   => Default to eg. faenza?

They specifically disliked faenza and obsidian, although I think
obsidian is a bit nicer. Our default Xfce icon theme is broken (it
doesn't have a run menu icon that is missing by default that sticks out
like a big eye-sore) so I don't think it would take *too* much
convincing to switch to even those because at this point nearly anything
is better than what we have already.

> In general: could we please do something to appearance beyond choosing a
> wallpaper once a release?  I'm a code hacker not a theme maker, so I see
> this only once it gets in my way -- but text readability does matter.

I meant to create a session for exactly this at DebConf but I'm
leading/co-leading a handful of sessions already and don't want to overload.

I do think we need a proper discussion around:
 * theming
 * our process for selecting wallpapers (particularly the timing, it
really doesn't have to be in a latter part of the release cycle)
 * choosing defaults that is appealing and has sane defaults, there are
limits to how far we can push this, gtk3 has horrible (and technically
non-existant) theming support with defaults that kind of suck for most
people so there's some technical limits on what's possible there but
improvements are certainly possible

I'll be happy to take that forward kicking it off in a #debian-meeting
meeting post-debconf if no one else is interested.

-Jonathan
-- 
  ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀  Jonathan Carter (highvoltage) 
  ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁  Debian Developer - https://wiki.debian.org/highvoltage
  ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋   https://debian.org | https://jonathancarter.org
  ⠈⠳⣄  Be Bold. Be brave. Debian has got your back.

Re: Debian, so ugly and unwieldy!

[Alexander Wirt]

On Fri, 07 Jun 2019, Wookey wrote:

> On 2019-06-07 17:24 +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> > * CSD is still a thing.  No, your special program shouldn't get to ignore
> >   system theme, put controls in wrong order, miss some controls, not respond
> >   to minimize/etc if it's currently busy, etc.  Consistency not one-off
> >   designs.
> 
> What is CSD?
client side decoration: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Client-Side_Decoration

Alex


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Description: PGP signature

Re: Debian, so ugly and unwieldy!

[Martin Steigerwald]

Bjørn Mork - 07.06.19, 19:22:
> Adam Borowski  writes:
> >   => Install gtk3-nocsd by default in all desktop tasks but Gnome. 
> >   It's not>   
> >  perfect but it helps.
> 
> That's nice.  Thanks for the tip.  I enjoy nice tools like eog and
> evince, but have always been annoyed by the missing window title and
> associated window manager context menu.

That is one of the reasons I use Plasma. The former KDE window manager 
(kwin) maintainer refused to add client side decorations to it.

-- 
Martin

Re: Debian, so ugly and unwieldy!

[Wookey]

On 2019-06-07 17:24 +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> * CSD is still a thing.  No, your special program shouldn't get to ignore
>   system theme, put controls in wrong order, miss some controls, not respond
>   to minimize/etc if it's currently busy, etc.  Consistency not one-off
>   designs.

What is CSD?

> re: panels

I too have used XFCE for many years on many machines and always get
rid of the bottom panel or at least make it hidden almost
immediately. Hidden panels are not much use as a default (not
discoverable), but just having one narrower panel would be sensible
for modern screens.

Most of the rest of what said sounded fairly sensible to me too,
although I'm not familiar with all the details (and have never noticed a
need for a dark theme). Nicer defaults for screenspace and fonts
definitely sounds like a good idea. You probably need to persuade the
maintainer.

Wookey
-- 
Principal hats:  Linaro, Debian, Wookware, ARM
http://wookware.org/


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Accepted faad2 2.8.8-3 (source) into unstable

[Sebastian Ramacher]

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Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 20:07:34 +0200
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Urgency: high
Maintainer: Debian Multimedia Maintainers 
Changed-By: Sebastian Ramacher 
Changes:
 faad2 (2.8.8-3) unstable; urgency=high
 .
   * Team upload.
   * debian/patches: Cherry-pick patch to fix buffer overflows from VLC.
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Re: Debian, so ugly and unwieldy!

[James Lu]

(I *love* customization, so I can't help but chime in here...)

As far as I know, Debian mostly uses default upstream desktop defaults,
so these concerns apply there too. Evidently some DEs (Plasma, Cinnamon)
focus on looks out of the box more than others.

On 2019-06-07 8:24 a.m., Adam Borowski wrote:
> This is about GUI appearance and ergonomy.
> 
> I'll concentrate at XFCE, as I consider GNOME3's UI a lost cause, thus I'd
> find it hard to bring constructive arguments there.
> 
> I also hate with a passion so-called "UX designers".  Those are folks who
> created Windows 8's Metro tiles, lightgray-on-white "Material Design" flat
> unmarked controls, and so on.  They work from a Mac while not having to
> actually use what they produce.

I respectfully disagree in the case of actual Android devices, but
everyone has different preferences.

> 
> For example:
> * our XFCE's layout has a thinnish bar with actually useful controls (menu
>   button, window list, desktop list, clock, systray, logout) at the top...
>   plus a tall redundant "OSX dock" that takes a lot of screen real estate.
>   It's too much even on 4:3 aspect ratio, and on currently prevailing 16:9
>   any loss to vertical space is bad.  Most code, web pages, human images,
>   etc, benefit from a portrait rather than landscape layout...

I've pushed defaults on my systems for quite a while that change the
Xfce panel setup to look more like Windows (or the default Plasma 5 /
Cinnamon look). Whisker-menu also provides speedy search and app
pinning, a feature I can't live without migrating fresh from Windows 7.
(It also takes up less space than the default menus!)

>   => Can't we move two useful pieces from the dock to the top bar?
> 
> 
> * the default theme has a thin disappearing poorly marked scroller.  This is
>   nasty with a bad touchpad (laptops), high-resolution small screen (PDAs).
> 
> 
> * people tend to use computers with only limited lighting.  The hacklab I'm
>   in right now has mostly covered windows (and even some artificial light
>   from the above!); at work opening window blinds too much can result in you
>   getting murdered; I for one prefer to hack after midnight rather than at
>   insane times like morning, etc.  And this is not just hackers like us --
>   even Windows and Mac brag about "night mode", random websites have this as
>   well, etc.  On the other hand, if we install some themes by default they
>   have at most lightish grey background.  I packaged
>   dark{cold,mint}-gtk-theme with real black, perhaps there are better ones?
> 
>   => Let's install by default a black theme, perhaps even enable it by 
> default?

+1 for Materia (materia-gtk-theme), especially the dark variant. It's a
simple, flat dark theme that preserves contrast without being having a
pitch black background, more so than Arc-Dark and even Adwaita-Dark. The
widget effects might be a bit much for some but I don't mind them.

Like most well-maintained themes it supports GTK2/3 and a plethora of
desktops, as well as Qt5 natively via a 3rd party Kvantum theme
(materia-kde).

My only gripe with this setup is that some apps like Firefox don't
behave nicely using dark themed GTK themes only; things like buttons and
input fields end up having black on black text, so I end up overriding
it to start with GTK_THEME=Materia (the standard/mixed light and dark
version)

> 
> * the default icon theme is fugly
> 
>   => Default to eg. faenza?

I like Numix-Circle but I'm a bit biased there ☺. Faenza, Moka, and
Papirus are all beautiful icon themes that the desktop's unify look and
feel. But this unification makes some people upset[1], though I very
much disagree with their opinion personally.

[1]:
https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2019/05/open-letter-stop-gtk-theming-distros

> 
> * default font is ugly and poorly hinted -- the latter is especially jarring
>   on a low-resolution screen I'm at right now, the former still applies to
>   one's proper battlestation at home/work.  Tarzeau recently had some
>   interesting rants, but even Quicksand that recently got added (during hard
>   freeze...) to desktop-base is pretty nice.  Or, if you want something more
>   conventional, Clear Sans (Intel Clear).  Or, Inter.  Or...
> 
>   => Actually configure a good font by default.  Quicksand looks fine.
> 

I use Noto Sans, which supports a lot of languages out of the box and is
the default in at least Cinnamon AFAIK.

Also, anti-aliasing + Slight hinting + RGB Sub-pixel order on my Xfce
setup. This is what I've gotten used to, though font hinting changes
seem so subtle I don't know how much I'd notice a change.

> * likewise, default monospace font.  My personal preference (Mononoki)
>   hasn't been made to build from source yet (b-deps are available now, but
>   it's still in contrib), my other preference is not packageable; there's a
>   bunch of good monospace fonts available for choice but _programming_ font
>   is an especially contentious issue.
> 
>   => Default to 

Accepted mailman-suite 0+20180916-8 (source) into unstable

[Jonas Meurer]

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Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 20:03:29 +0200
Source: mailman-suite
Architecture: source
Version: 0+20180916-8
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: critical
Maintainer: Debian Mailman Team 
Changed-By: Jonas Meurer 
Closes: 924629 930133
Changes:
 mailman-suite (0+20180916-8) unstable; urgency=critical
 .
   * d/mailman3-web.postinst:
 - Run 'systemctl daemon-reload' just if systemd is installed.
   (Closes: #930133)
   * d/control, d/patches/0001_settings_py.patch:
 - Switch back from ruby-sass to sassc. Ruby-sass became unmaintained
   and abandoned recently. Thanks to Christian Ehrhardt for bugreport
   and patch. (Closes: #924629)
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Re: speeding up installs

[Adam Borowski]

On Fri, Jun 07, 2019 at 10:52:43AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Adam Borowski  writes:
> 
> > There are two massive recent improvements:
> > * eatmydata helps a lot, and eating a power-lossed install is not a loss
> 
> We did an experiment at work about four years ago with using eatmydata
> inside a D-I run, and had to revert because we ran into no end of problems
> with zero-length files after the first system reboot, even though we did
> an explicit sync before reboot.
> 
> This is potentially obsolete data (this was with Ubuntu 12.04, IIRC), but
> it's made me fairly cautious of eatmydata ever since.
> 
> Also, I think your proposal is not to use LD_PRELOAD and other hacks but
> to instead have a native package installation mode that understands when
> to sync, and perhaps that wouldn't have the same behavior.

Yeah, I use archive_write_disk (going to drop it probably, though), and
ordinary write().  Not even a single mmap() to write or anything fancy --
libarchive doesn't write into user-provided buffers so dax shenanigans or
such won't get us anything; can just let the kernel write() without
bothering to optimize.

If a filesystem can screw sync() after a bunch of plain open() write()
close()s, there's nothing you can sanely do.


Meow!
-- 
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Sometimes you benefit from delegating stuff.  For example,
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ this way I get to be a vegetarian.
⠈⠳⣄

Re: speeding up installs

[Russ Allbery]

Adam Borowski  writes:

> There are two massive recent improvements:
> * eatmydata helps a lot, and eating a power-lossed install is not a loss

We did an experiment at work about four years ago with using eatmydata
inside a D-I run, and had to revert because we ran into no end of problems
with zero-length files after the first system reboot, even though we did
an explicit sync before reboot.

This is potentially obsolete data (this was with Ubuntu 12.04, IIRC), but
it's made me fairly cautious of eatmydata ever since.

Also, I think your proposal is not to use LD_PRELOAD and other hacks but
to instead have a native package installation mode that understands when
to sync, and perhaps that wouldn't have the same behavior.

-- 
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)   

speeding up installs

[Adam Borowski]

Hi!
Package install times are quite nasty.  For example, a full GUI install can
take[1] 1.5 hours on spinning rust, and several minutes even on raid0 of Optane
disks -- you can't get much faster without operating entirely in memory[2].

There are two massive recent improvements:
* eatmydata helps a lot, and eating a power-lossed install is not a loss
* mmdebstrap can speed up the debootstrap stage by a factor of 3-6

But d-i doesn't use either, debootstrap is small compared to installing
actual tasks/b-deps afterwards, and there's at least a couple of orders of
magnitude of speedup possible.

But you'd say: I have a fast NVMe disk, slow network, and don't install more
often than once in a few years.  Then yeah, you don't need a d-i speedup.  I
care about two use cases:
* boxes with HDDs or SD cards
* datacenter VMs, buildds

It seems that the hard minimum is around 1 second on modern hardware.  You
can't unpack the full set of .xz debs faster than 0.75s assuming full
parallelism -- which is impossible as firefox.deb itself takes 3s (with
other CPU cores loaded).  We can cheat here by splitting or repacking such
big .debs with zstd.  But that's not all -- the .debs have to get fetched
from the network (750MB in a second calls for 10Gb network at minimum). 
Then configured.

Writeout is not a problem: the full test install is 2.5GB unpacked, and you
don't need to persist that immediately.  A desktop install can writeout
while the user answers installer questions, a buildd doesn't care about
durability, a VM can do usable stuff while the disk is writing.

You don't need that big a CPU: while I benchmarked the preliminary code on a
-j64 2990WX, the actual utilization was less than 1/4 despite the task being
highly parallel.  This CPU chokes on its limited memory bandwidth (64MB of
L3 cache hardly counts for big xz decompression), you want something with
fewer, faster cores.

And it's slowest machines like 4-core boards that actually benefit the most
in absolute terms.  No, there's no such thing as a 1-way machine that can
install a modern distro anymore[3]: oldest machine I own, a non-NX Pentium4,
is already -j2; when 3 years ago I needed the cheapest possible box with
• USB, • local storage, • ethernet; it had 4 cores and 512MB RAM.   Non-SMP
is dead and buried, forget about ever optimizing for that.

Test set: buster's task-xfce-desktop.  That's 750MB of .debs, 2.5GB result.


So let's see if we can approach this theoretical limit.

So far I came up with the following:

* let's not care about power loss during install.  So no fsyncs, and no
  writing a single byte that's going to be overwritten later.  Do a global
  sync() only when entering grub-install.
* almost all Pre-Depends and preinsts care only about upgrades; on a
  clean-slate install you can ignore them and at most fix-up later
* dpkg-diverts can be a problem but going yolo seems to work for me so far
  (not sure if all cases can be fixed-up after the fact -- dash can)
* being able to unpack in parallel also means you don't need to care about
  order: install can go before apt-download has finished.  This is awesome
  when your mirror has a slower link than that 10Gb...  We can install
  package X the moment apt has fetched it even though it's still downloading
  packages Y and Z.
  (Nb: what's a good way to know apt is done?  I screen-scrape
  -oDebug::pkgAcquire looking for "Dequeuing" which is a nasty hack.)

The above is all nice and dandy, but I don't know how to do configure right. 
It seems that at least some triggers can be parallelized.  man-db is by a
large margin the biggest offender -- seems it has no dependencies so it's a
great low-hanging fruit.  Somehow it worked for me even before ldconfig --
that's probably insane though, so ldconfig should go first.  Both of
ldconfig and man-db are ordered after all unpacks of unrelated packages have
finished -- is it possible to do them piecewise?

I hardly looked at other postinsts yet, I wonder how they can be elided or
fast-tracked.

My dependency graph so far:

apt-update
 |
 +>--
 |   \
apt -s installapt-cache dumpavail
 |   /
 +<--
 |
stat(if .debs are here)
 |\
 | +--+...
 | |  |
 | unpack 1   unpack 2 (.debs that were already on disk)
 | \--+
 | \-\
apt download |
 Finished 3 -> unpack 3 -+
 Finished 4 -> unpack 4 -+
 Finished 5 -> unpack 5 -+
 |
   (unpack complete)
 |
 ldconfig
/  \
   man-db write dpkg's status
  | |
  |   dpkg --configure -a (fully serial...)
  |/
  +---/
  |
Done!

One other issue is that the whole plan needs to be known before starting.  So
no running in-target tasksel, asking whether you want 

Re: Debian, so ugly and unwieldy!

[Bjørn Mork]

Adam Borowski  writes:

>   => Install gtk3-nocsd by default in all desktop tasks but Gnome.  It's not
>  perfect but it helps.

That's nice.  Thanks for the tip.  I enjoy nice tools like eog and
evince, but have always been annoyed by the missing window title and
associated window manager context menu.


Bjørn

Accepted speech-dispatcher-contrib 0.9.0-8 (source) into unstable

[Samuel Thibault]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Format: 1.8
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 18:59:02 +0200
Source: speech-dispatcher-contrib
Binary: speech-dispatcher-baratinoo speech-dispatcher-baratinoo-dbgsym 
speech-dispatcher-kali speech-dispatcher-kali-dbgsym speech-dispatcher-pico 
speech-dispatcher-pico-dbgsym
Architecture: source
Version: 0.9.0-8
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian TTS Team 
Changed-By: Samuel Thibault 
Description:
 speech-dispatcher-baratinoo - Speech Dispatcher: Baratinoo (VoxyGen) output 
module
 speech-dispatcher-kali - Speech Dispatcher: Kali output module
 speech-dispatcher-pico - Speech Dispatcher: Pico output module
Closes: 930132
Changes:
 speech-dispatcher-contrib (0.9.0-8) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * patches/git-baratinoo-char: cherry-pick upstream fix for spelling
 characters with the baratinoo synthesis (Closes: Bug#930132).
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Accepted llvm-toolchain-8 1:8.0.1~+rc1-1~exp2 (source) into experimental

[Sylvestre Ledru]

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Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 19 May 2019 13:31:37 +0200
Source: llvm-toolchain-8
Architecture: source
Version: 1:8.0.1~+rc1-1~exp2
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: LLVM Packaging Team 
Changed-By: Sylvestre Ledru 
Closes: 930008
Changes:
 llvm-toolchain-8 (1:8.0.1~+rc1-1~exp2) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * Build using thinlto on non stretch, xenial and trusty
 (fails with some undef symbols)
 Option -DLLVM_ENABLE_LTO="Thin" added
   * WebAssembly is now build by default, remove it from the
 experimental list
   * check-polly was executed twice
   * Move the default ARM arch from arm1176jzf-s (armv6) to cortex-a7
 (Closes: #930008)
 .
   [ John Paul Adrian Glaubitz ]
   * Use dh-exec to exclude lib/LLVM*.so on powerpc and
 powerpcspe from llvm-X.Y-dev.install.in
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Accepted molly-guard 0.7.1+exp1 (source) into experimental

[Marc Haber]

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Format: 1.8
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 18:39:34 +0200
Source: molly-guard
Architecture: source
Version: 0.7.1+exp1
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Simó Albert i Beltran 
Changed-By: Marc Haber 
Closes: 914716
Changes:
 molly-guard (0.7.1+exp1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   [ Simó Albert i Beltran ]
   * Update Vcs-Git and Vcs-Browser fields from alioth to salsa
 .
   [ Marc Haber ]
   * add myself as Uploader
   * 812545 is fixed now, re-enable diversion of pm-utils files (Closes: 
#914716)
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Re: Salsa migration from foo-guest to foo [was: Bits from the DPL (May 2019)]

[Alexander Wirt]

On Fri, 07 Jun 2019, Thomas Goirand wrote:

> On 6/5/19 4:08 PM, Norbert Preining wrote:
> > This should be
> > completely independent from what one can do on salsa.
> > So I propose that whatever one's level within Debian is, it should not 
> > change the status on salsa.
> 
> I also find it surprising that the "feature" from Alioth that one has to
> completely recreate everything from an account foo-guest to just foo.
> Can't this be addressed in another way? It's *very* annoying on both
> directions (ie: non-dd -> dd or dd -> non-dd).
We will probably start doing that when we have a proper usermanagement tool
for guests in place. 

Alex
 

Re: DebConf19: Join our local crowdfunding campaign until June 15th

[Samuel Henrique]

And here's the URL for the crowdfunding:

https://www.catarse.me/debconf19

DebConf19: Join our local crowdfunding campaign until June 15th

[Paulo Henrique de Lima Santana]

Hi all,

Since March we are running a local crowdfunding campaign to encourage
brazilians to help DebConf19 because donating to DebConf19, they feel
part of the Conference. We had a good experience doing this on the last
two minidebconfs. Now we translated it because maybe you would like to
join it (sorry for delay).

The Debian Brasil Community created a crowdfunding campaign for anyone
can make a donation above R$ 10,00 (~ U$ 2.60) for the DebConf19 -
Debian Project's Developers Conference realization.

This will be the 20th edition of the Conference and only the second time
it will happen in Brazil!

We want to show how the Brazilian Debian community is strong, engaged
and could be one of the official sponsors of DebConf19. If we hit the
goals, the Debian Brasil logo will be placed in the sponsorship category
equivalent to what is fundraised.

In the sponsorship plan of DebConf19 there are several ties that your
company can acquire one of them if you prefer. Our initial fundraising
goal in this campaign is R$ 9.195,00 (~ U$ 2,384.00). If we disconsider
Catharse's fee and the cost of production to make the t-shirt, we end up
with R$ 7.000,00 (~ U$ 1.815,00), which is equivalent to a bronze quota
(in Reais) in the sponsorship plan.

If we do not reach the initial goal, we will only be listed as supporters.

Remarks about the rewards:
* We will send the stickers for everyone in Brazil without additional cost.
* We can send the t-shirt anywhere, as long as the donor pays the
shipping cost.

# Extended Goals

If we exceed our initial goal, the next step will be to try to reach R$
21.265,00 (~ U$ 5,514.00) and thus acquire the silver quota (R$
17.500,00 discounting the fee).

If we exceed the value of the silver quota, then the objective will be
to reach the value of R$ 41.380,00 (~ U$ 10,731.00), which will put us
in the gold quota (R$ 35,000.00 discounting the fee).

And if we exceed this amount, we will try the maximum amount of
sponsorship, R$ 81.610,00 (~ U$ 21,163.00), which will put us in the
platinum quota (R$ 70,000.00 discounting the fee).

We believe this is a dream that is possible to achieve, and we count on
you to be part of it!

## Budget

Acquisition of the bronze quota of DebConf19: R$ 7.000,00. This amount
will be used to pay expenses in the event.

## Rewards

Production: R$ 1.000,00 (~ U$ 259.00).

## Catarse's fee

13% of the total: R$ 1,195.00 (~ U$ 309.00).

# Values and what you get

1) R$ 10,00 (~ U$ 2.59) or more: no rewards.

2) R$ 20,00 (~ U$ 5.19) or more: you name listed in an "thank you" page
on the website.

3) R$ 30,00 (~ U$ 7.78) or more: you name listed in an "thank you" page
on the website and 2 DebConf19 stickers.

4) R$ 50,00 (~ U$ 12.97) or more: you name listed in an "thank you" page
on the website, 2 DebConf19 stickers and 2 Debian stickers.

5) R$ 100,00 (~ U$ 25.93) or more: you name listed in an "thank you"
page on the website, 2 DebConf19 stickers, 2 Debian stickers, and 1
exclusive t-shirt like this:
https://s3-sa-east-1.amazonaws.com/cdn.br.catarse/uploads/reward/uploaded_image/169646/thumb_reward_banner-catarse-camisa-2.jpg

If you donate R$ 20,00 or more, we will add your name on the Debian
spiral printed in the t-shirt.

# Deadline

Crowdfunding campaign will finish 2019-06-15 23:59 (UTC -3). Run!

Best regards,
-- 
Paulo Henrique de Lima Santana (phls)
Curitiba - Brasil
Debian Developer
Diretor do Instituto para Conservação de Tecnologias Livres
Membro da Comunidade Curitiba Livre
Site: http://www.phls.com.br
GNU/Linux user: 228719  GPG ID: 0443C450

Organizador da DebConf19 - Conferência Mundial de Desenvolvedores(as) Debian
Curitiba - 21 a 28 de julho de 2019
http://debconf19.debconf.org



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Debian, so ugly and unwieldy!

[Jim Popovitch]

On Fri, 2019-06-07 at 17:24 +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> This is about GUI appearance and ergonomy.
> 
> I'll concentrate at XFCE, as I consider GNOME3's UI a lost cause

Have you tried Cinnamon, it's quite nice and not ugly nor unwieldy.

> * people tend to use computers with only limited lighting.  

Is there any data on that?  My experience is different, and I expect it
mirrors the experience of a vast number of office workers and students.

I do think a healthy discussion is good for Debian UI efforts.

-Jim P.

Debian, so ugly and unwieldy!

[Adam Borowski]

This is about GUI appearance and ergonomy.

I'll concentrate at XFCE, as I consider GNOME3's UI a lost cause, thus I'd
find it hard to bring constructive arguments there.

I also hate with a passion so-called "UX designers".  Those are folks who
created Windows 8's Metro tiles, lightgray-on-white "Material Design" flat
unmarked controls, and so on.  They work from a Mac while not having to
actually use what they produce.


For example:
* our XFCE's layout has a thinnish bar with actually useful controls (menu
  button, window list, desktop list, clock, systray, logout) at the top...
  plus a tall redundant "OSX dock" that takes a lot of screen real estate.
  It's too much even on 4:3 aspect ratio, and on currently prevailing 16:9
  any loss to vertical space is bad.  Most code, web pages, human images,
  etc, benefit from a portrait rather than landscape layout...

  => Can't we move two useful pieces from the dock to the top bar?


* the default theme has a thin disappearing poorly marked scroller.  This is
  nasty with a bad touchpad (laptops), high-resolution small screen (PDAs).


* people tend to use computers with only limited lighting.  The hacklab I'm
  in right now has mostly covered windows (and even some artificial light
  from the above!); at work opening window blinds too much can result in you
  getting murdered; I for one prefer to hack after midnight rather than at
  insane times like morning, etc.  And this is not just hackers like us --
  even Windows and Mac brag about "night mode", random websites have this as
  well, etc.  On the other hand, if we install some themes by default they
  have at most lightish grey background.  I packaged
  dark{cold,mint}-gtk-theme with real black, perhaps there are better ones?

  => Let's install by default a black theme, perhaps even enable it by default?


* the default icon theme is fugly

  => Default to eg. faenza?


* default font is ugly and poorly hinted -- the latter is especially jarring
  on a low-resolution screen I'm at right now, the former still applies to
  one's proper battlestation at home/work.  Tarzeau recently had some
  interesting rants, but even Quicksand that recently got added (during hard
  freeze...) to desktop-base is pretty nice.  Or, if you want something more
  conventional, Clear Sans (Intel Clear).  Or, Inter.  Or...

  => Actually configure a good font by default.  Quicksand looks fine.


* likewise, default monospace font.  My personal preference (Mononoki)
  hasn't been made to build from source yet (b-deps are available now, but
  it's still in contrib), my other preference is not packageable; there's a
  bunch of good monospace fonts available for choice but _programming_ font
  is an especially contentious issue.

  => Default to anything reasonable -- ie, not Dejavu.  Even Comic Shanns is
 better...


* CSD is still a thing.  No, your special program shouldn't get to ignore
  system theme, put controls in wrong order, miss some controls, not respond
  to minimize/etc if it's currently busy, etc.  Consistency not one-off
  designs.

  => Install gtk3-nocsd by default in all desktop tasks but Gnome.  It's not
 perfect but it helps.


* Likewise, GTK vs QT themes.

  => If default desktop at install time was not KDE, make QT obey GTK theme?


In general: could we please do something to appearance beyond choosing a
wallpaper once a release?  I'm a code hacker not a theme maker, so I see
this only once it gets in my way -- but text readability does matter.

(Discussing before filing bugs.)


Meow!
-- 
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
⣾⠁⢰⠒⠀⣿⡁ Imagine there are bandits in your house, your kid is bleeding out,
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ the house is on fire, and seven big-ass trumpets are playing in the
⠈⠳⣄ sky.  Your cat demands food.  The priority should be obvious...

Re: Salsa migration from foo-guest to foo [was: Bits from the DPL (May 2019)]

[Thomas Goirand]

On 6/5/19 4:08 PM, Norbert Preining wrote:
> This should be
> completely independent from what one can do on salsa.
> So I propose that whatever one's level within Debian is, it should not 
> change the status on salsa.

I also find it surprising that the "feature" from Alioth that one has to
completely recreate everything from an account foo-guest to just foo.
Can't this be addressed in another way? It's *very* annoying on both
directions (ie: non-dd -> dd or dd -> non-dd).

Cheers,

Thomas Goirand (zigo)

Accepted qttools-opensource-src 5.12.3-2 (source amd64) into experimental, experimental

[Dmitry Shachnev]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 05 May 2019 13:04:35 +0300
Source: qttools-opensource-src
Binary: libqt5designer5 libqt5designer5-dbgsym libqt5designercomponents5 
libqt5designercomponents5-dbgsym libqt5help5 libqt5help5-dbgsym qdbus-qt5 
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qtattributionsscanner-qt5 qtattributionsscanner-qt5-dbgsym qttools5-dev 
qttools5-dev-tools qttools5-dev-tools-dbgsym qttools5-examples 
qttools5-examples-dbgsym qttools5-private-dev
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 5.12.3-2
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers 
Changed-By: Dmitry Shachnev 
Description:
 libqt5designer5 - Qt 5 designer module
 libqt5designercomponents5 - Qt 5 Designer components module
 libqt5help5 - Qt 5 help module
 qdbus-qt5  - Qt 5 D-Bus tool
 qdoc-qt5   - Qt 5 qdoc tool
 qhelpgenerator-qt5 - Qt 5 qhelpgenerator tool
 qt5-assistant - Qt 5 Assistant
 qtattributionsscanner-qt5 - Qt 5 qtattributionsscanner tool
 qttools5-dev - Qt 5 tools development files
 qttools5-dev-tools - Qt 5 development tools
 qttools5-examples - Qt 5 tools examples
 qttools5-private-dev - Qt 5 tools private development files
Changes:
 qttools-opensource-src (5.12.3-2) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * Split qhelpgenerator and qtattributionsscanner into separate binary
 packages. This will allow us to build-depend only on small qdoc,
 qhelpgenerator and qtattributionsscanner packages for building Qt docs,
 instead of the whole qttools5-dev-tools package.
   * Update debian/libqt5designer5.symbols from arm64 build log.
   * Update debian/copyright.
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Bug#930117: ITP: wpebackend-fdo -- WPE backend for FreeDesktop.org

[Alberto Garcia]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Alberto Garcia 

* Package name: wpebackend-fdo
  Version : 1.3.0
  Upstream Author : The WPE WebKit Team
* URL : https://wpewebkit.org/
* License : 2-clause BSD and Expat
  Programming Lang: C++
  Description : WPE backend for FreeDesktop.org

WPE WebKit is a port of the WebKit browser engine optimized for
embedded devices. The code itself is hardware-agnostic, and the
platform-specific bits are implemented in backends.

wpebackend-fdo provides a reference WPE backend implementation using
FreeDesktop.org technologies (Wayland protocol and the Wayland EGL
platform) to enable integration into the WPE WebKit process model.

Bug#930116: ITP: libwpe -- Base library for the WPE WebKit port

[Alberto Garcia]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Alberto Garcia 

* Package name: libwpe
  Version : 1.3.0
  Upstream Author : The WPE WebKit Team
* URL : https://wpewebkit.org/
* License : 2-clause BSD
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : Base library for the WPE WebKit port

libwpe is a small C library designed for the WPE port of the WebKit
browser engine. This library defines platform-agnostic interfaces
that WPE WebKit uses to nest Web content presentation between the
platform-provided graphics system and the application-specific use
cases.

Accepted vim 2:8.1.0875-4 (source) into unstable

[James McCoy]

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Format: 1.8
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 06:49:19 -0400
Source: vim
Architecture: source
Version: 2:8.1.0875-4
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: high
Maintainer: Debian Vim Maintainers 
Changed-By: James McCoy 
Closes: 930020
Changes:
 vim (2:8.1.0875-4) unstable; urgency=high
 .
   * Backport 8.1.1046 and 8.1.1365 to fix CVE-2019-12735  (Closes: #930020)
 + 8.1.1365: source command doesn't check for the sandbox
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Accepted bwbar 1.2.3-4 (source) into unstable

[Reiner Herrmann]

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Format: 1.8
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 12:01:09 +0200
Source: bwbar
Architecture: source
Version: 1.2.3-4
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian QA Group 
Changed-By: Reiner Herrmann 
Closes: 900441
Changes:
 bwbar (1.2.3-4) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * QA upload.
 .
   [ Tobias Frost ]
   * VCS-*: .git were missing in the URIs.
 .
   [ Reiner Herrmann ]
   * Install missing binary. (Closes: #900441)
   * Depend on debhelper-compat 12.
   * Bump Standards-Version to 4.3.0.
   * Update FSF address in d/copyright.
   * Enable all hardening options.
   * Point Vcs-* fields to salsa.
   * Honour CPPFLAGS during compilations.
   * Add patch headers.
   * Add watch file.
   * Pre-Depend on ${misc:Pre-Depends}.
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Accepted patroni 1.5.5-2 (source) into unstable

[Michael Banck]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 13:11:18 +0200
Source: patroni
Binary: patroni patroni-doc
Architecture: source
Version: 1.5.5-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian PostgreSQL Maintainers 
Changed-By: Michael Banck 
Description:
 patroni- PostgreSQL High Availability with ZooKeeper, etcd, Consul, or Kub
 patroni-doc - PostgreSQL High Availability (documentation)
Closes: 930015 930016
Changes:
 patroni (1.5.5-2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * debian/pg_createconfig_patroni: Filter out comments from
 /etc/patroni/dcs.yml when assembling the Patroni configuration file
 (Closes: #930016).
   * debian/pg_createconfig_patroni: Fix determination of host IP/network if `ip
 route get' reports additional output (Closes: #930015).
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Accepted boxbackup 0.13~~git20180313.g16a11e86-2 (source) into unstable

[Reinhard Tartler]

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Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 05:55:39 -0400
Source: boxbackup
Architecture: source
Version: 0.13~~git20180313.g16a11e86-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian QA Group 
Changed-By: Reinhard Tartler 
Closes: 907135
Changes:
 boxbackup (0.13~~git20180313.g16a11e86-2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * QA upload.
   * debian/control: Point Vcs headers to salsa
   * Bugfix compile against openssl1.1 (Closes: #907135).
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Accepted openjdk-13 13~24-1 (source) into experimental

[Matthias Klose]

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Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 09:58:37 +0200
Source: openjdk-13
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Version: 13~24-1
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: OpenJDK Team 
Changed-By: Matthias Klose 
Changes:
 openjdk-13 (13~24-1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * OpenJDK 13 snapshot, build 24.
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Accepted notmuch 0.29-2 (source) into experimental

[David Bremner]

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Format: 1.8
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2019 21:35:12 -0300
Source: notmuch
Architecture: source
Version: 0.29-2
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Carl Worth 
Changed-By: David Bremner 
Closes: 688609 918928 918975
Changes:
 notmuch (0.29-2) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream feature release. See /usr/share/doc/notmuch/NEWS.gz for
 details.
   * Bug fix: "notmuch-hello screen should show notmuch logo", thanks to
 Tim Retout (Closes: #918928).
   * Bug fix: "Can't deal with compressed maildir files", thanks to
 Joerg Jaspert (Closes: #688609).
   * Bug fix: "Please ship notmuch-emacs-mua.desktop", thanks to Tim Retout
 (Closes: #918975).
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Accepted nim 0.20.0-1 (source) into unstable

[Federico Ceratto]

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Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 10:37:13 +0100
Source: nim
Architecture: source
Version: 0.20.0-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Federico Ceratto 
Changed-By: Federico Ceratto 
Changes:
 nim (0.20.0-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release
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Accepted mariadb-10.3 1:10.3.15-2 (source) into unstable

[Otto Kekäläinen]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Format: 1.8
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 09:13:35 +0300
Source: mariadb-10.3
Binary: libmariadb-dev libmariadbclient-dev libmariadb-dev-compat libmariadb3 
libmariadbd19 libmariadbd-dev mariadb-common mariadb-client-core-10.3 
mariadb-client-10.3 mariadb-server-core-10.3 mariadb-server-10.3 mariadb-server 
mariadb-client mariadb-backup mariadb-plugin-connect mariadb-plugin-rocksdb 
mariadb-plugin-oqgraph mariadb-plugin-tokudb mariadb-plugin-mroonga 
mariadb-plugin-spider mariadb-plugin-gssapi-server mariadb-plugin-gssapi-client 
mariadb-plugin-cracklib-password-check mariadb-test mariadb-test-data
Architecture: source
Version: 1:10.3.15-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian MySQL Maintainers 
Changed-By: Otto Kekäläinen 
Description:
 libmariadb-dev - MariaDB database development files
 libmariadb-dev-compat - MariaDB Connector/C, compatibility symlinks
 libmariadb3 - MariaDB database client library
 libmariadbclient-dev - MariaDB database development files (transitional 
package)
 libmariadbd-dev - MariaDB embedded database, development files
 libmariadbd19 - MariaDB embedded database, shared library
 mariadb-backup - Backup tool for MariaDB server
 mariadb-client - MariaDB database client (metapackage depending on the latest 
vers
 mariadb-client-10.3 - MariaDB database client binaries
 mariadb-client-core-10.3 - MariaDB database core client binaries
 mariadb-common - MariaDB common metapackage
 mariadb-plugin-connect - Connect storage engine for MariaDB
 mariadb-plugin-cracklib-password-check - CrackLib Password Validation Plugin 
for MariaDB
 mariadb-plugin-gssapi-client - GSSAPI authentication plugin for MariaDB client
 mariadb-plugin-gssapi-server - GSSAPI authentication plugin for MariaDB server
 mariadb-plugin-mroonga - Mroonga storage engine for MariaDB
 mariadb-plugin-oqgraph - OQGraph storage engine for MariaDB
 mariadb-plugin-rocksdb - RocksDB storage engine for MariaDB
 mariadb-plugin-spider - Spider storage engine for MariaDB
 mariadb-plugin-tokudb - TokuDB storage engine for MariaDB
 mariadb-server - MariaDB database server (metapackage depending on the latest 
vers
 mariadb-server-10.3 - MariaDB database server binaries
 mariadb-server-core-10.3 - MariaDB database core server files
 mariadb-test - MariaDB database regression test suite
 mariadb-test-data - MariaDB database regression test suite - data files
Changes:
 mariadb-10.3 (1:10.3.15-2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   [ Julien Muchembled ]
   * Fixup RocksDB test on s390x, not available there
 .
   [ Otto Kekäläinen ]
   * Purge deleted translations from debian/po
   * Rename 'mariadbcheck' to 'mariadb-check' as upstream is doing in 10.4
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Accepted liblexical-sealrequirehints-perl 0.011-3 (source) into experimental

[gregor herrmann]

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Format: 1.8
Date: Fri,  7 Jun 2019 10:55:24 CEST
Source: liblexical-sealrequirehints-perl
Binary: 
Architecture: source
Version: 0.011-3
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Perl Group 
Changed-By: gregor herrmann 
Description: 
Closes: 930051
Changes:
 liblexical-sealrequirehints-perl (0.011-3) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * Team upload.
   * Remove override_dh_installchangelogs from debian/rules after fix
 for #899248.
   * Drop patch lexical_sealrequirehints_5_27.11.diff.
 This was only needed for perl 5.27.11 and early 5.28 release candidates,
 until a change in 5.28.0 obsoleted it.
 (Closes: #930051)
   * debian/control: make build dependency versioned to exclude the version
 which breaks a test. Cf. #930051
   * Declare compliance with Debian Policy 4.3.0.
   * Bump debhelper-compat to 12.
   * debian/watch: use uscan version 4.
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Accepted galera-3 25.3.26-2~exp1 (source) into experimental

[Otto Kekäläinen]

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Format: 1.8
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 09:49:57 +0300
Source: galera-3
Binary: galera-3 galera-arbitrator-3
Architecture: source
Version: 25.3.26-2~exp1
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian MySQL Maintainers 
Changed-By: Otto Kekäläinen 
Description:
 galera-3   - Replication framework for transactional applications
 galera-arbitrator-3 - Galera arbitrator daemon
Closes: 927846
Changes:
 galera-3 (25.3.26-2~exp1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * Apply upstream patch for FTBFS on hppa, hurd and kfreebsd-*
 (Closes: #927846)
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Accepted graphite-web 1.1.4-3 (source all) into unstable

[Thomas Goirand]

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Format: 1.8
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 09:39:24 +0200
Source: graphite-web
Binary: graphite-web
Architecture: source all
Version: 1.1.4-3
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Graphite Group 
Changed-By: Thomas Goirand 
Description:
 graphite-web - Enterprise Scalable Realtime Graphing
Closes: 925240
Changes:
 graphite-web (1.1.4-3) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Fix shebang of /usr/bin/graphite-manage. (Closes: #925240)
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Re: Bits from the DPL (May 2019)

[Alexander Wirt]

On Thu, 06 Jun 2019, Sam Hartman wrote:

> > "Bastian" == Bastian Blank  writes:
> 
> Bastian> Hi Sam
> Bastian> On Thu, Jun 06, 2019 at 11:57:41AM -0400, Sam Hartman wrote:
> >> However, it's a lot easier to get a foo-guest account on salsa
> >> than it is to get a foo guest account in Debian LDAP.
> 
> Bastian> A guest account in Debian LDAP does not get a Salsa
> Bastian> account, at least not an usable one.  Currently only users
> Bastian> in the Debian group are allowed.
> 
> No, but my understanding is that basically anyone on the internet can go
> sign up for foo-guest at salsa.
> 
> >> There are transitions like someone retiring from the project
> >> where we actually would be delighted if they continued to use
> >> salsa in some capacity.
> 
> Bastian> The largest technical problem with that is providing the
> Bastian> user with a valid e-mail address.  Apart from that we need
> Bastian> DSA to properly define states in LDAP.
> 
> OK, that's useful input.
> I do feel we're talking past each other here though.
> 
> Norbert and some other folks said they wanted salsa to behave
> differently.
> 
> Alex jumped in and said "salsa doesn't work that way."
> Sure, we all know that.
> And yet, salsa and really all of Debian can change if we want them to
> and the right we are willing to do the work.
No, I said why salsa works the way it works. If you want a special state for
"not so really disabled accounts" salsa isn't the right place to implement
that. 

Btw. nobody ever came to us and said "Hey, that account is disabled, are
there any options to behave differently". So the steps are: define how those
"not so really disabled" account should behave, implement them in udldap and
then we can adjust the syncer.

Alex



signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: ZFS in Buster

[Philipp Kern]

On 6/6/2019 8:09 PM, Aron Xu wrote:
> Key interest in the thread is getting some insights about how to deal
> with the awkward situation that affects ZFS experience dramatically -
> Linux will remove those symbols in LTS kernel release, although
> in-kernel symbols are never promised to be stable. I've been in touch
> with ZoL upstream to listen to their plans and wishes, so that we
> (Debian ZoL people) can take actions that serve best for our users and
> community.

I will note that in terms of prior art Debian has in the past always
prioritized freeness over performance. Whenever there are binary blobs
involved to improve performance, we opted not to ship them unless they
could be reproduced using free software and have their source included.

Of course in that case people were still free to install the binary
blobs from non-free, assuming that the blob was in fact distributable.
This would not be the case here. But crippling the performance would be
indeed an option, even though this would make Debian much less relevant
for ZFS deployments and people would just go and use Ubuntu instead.

Still, crippling performance would still provide a lever and motivation
for upstream to come up with a way to disable the FPU on every supported
architecture one by one (if only on the most important one), even if
it's brittle and hacky. I personally wonder why a kernel which provides
a module interface does not provide a way to save FPU state, but alas,
they made their decision.

In the great scheme of things doing things the slow way has forced
certain progress to happen in the past when it was painful enough. The
question I wonder is if we are relevant enough here to push the needle
or if essentially all other distributions (say Ubuntu) will dare not to
follow upstream here and carry a patch forever.

Kind regards
Philipp Kern

Re: @debian.org mail

[Philipp Kern]

On 6/6/2019 12:49 PM, Bjørn Mork wrote:
> Daniel Lange  writes:
> 
>> We have more people registered for DebConf ("the Debian Developers'
>> conference") with @gmail.com than @debian.org addresses.
> 
> You can't fix @gmail.com.  It is deliberately broken for commercial
> reasons, and that won't stop with SPF and DKIM.  Anti-spam is just the
> current selling excuse for moving users to a closed, commercially
> controlled, messaging service.
> 
> Document that @gmail.com doesn't work and ask anyone subscribed with
> such an address to resubscribe using an Internet email service.
> 
> You might want to make a press announcement out of it, to prevent other
> service providers from making the same mistake Google has made.

It does not only affect @gmail.com but all other email hosted by Google,
too. And you cannot see that from just the domain name. Thus I have
already given up on trying to mail to destinations other than
@debian.org with my @debian.org account.

So yes, you can proclaim that, but it still makes the @debian.org email
address increasingly useless. The requirement essentially boils down to
using DKIM if you want your emails delivered. There already have been
some suggestions in this thread.

Kind regards
Philipp Kern

Re: Removing bzip2 support from apt due to rustification

[Xavier]

Le 07/06/2019 à 09:48, Mo Zhou a écrit :
> Hi Boyuan,
> 
> On 2019-06-06 21:44, Boyuan Yang wrote:
>> I do remember there's still some source packages / binary packages in Debian
>> using the bzip2 format. If we are going to do that (which looks reasonable,
>> BTW), a serious archive-wide scan should be made in advance to see how great
>> the impact is and we need to deal with each occurrence.
> 
> Correction: s/some packages/massive amount of packages/
> 
> I quickly scanned my local Sid (amd64+source) mirror:
> 
> /l/M/debian ❯❯❯ find . -type f -name '*.orig.tar.bz2' | wc -l
> 1338
> /l/M/debian ❯❯❯ find . -type f -name '*.debian.tar.bz2' | wc -l
> 57

Hello,

uscan can be modified to repackage all tar.bz2 upstream archives to
tar.xz ones (as for .zip files). If we decide to remove bz2, please open
a BTS against devscripts and I'll do the work.

Cheers,
Xavier

Re: Removing bzip2 support from apt due to rustification

[Mo Zhou]

Hi Boyuan,

On 2019-06-06 21:44, Boyuan Yang wrote:
> I do remember there's still some source packages / binary packages in Debian
> using the bzip2 format. If we are going to do that (which looks reasonable,
> BTW), a serious archive-wide scan should be made in advance to see how great
> the impact is and we need to deal with each occurrence.

Correction: s/some packages/massive amount of packages/

I quickly scanned my local Sid (amd64+source) mirror:

/l/M/debian ❯❯❯ find . -type f -name '*.orig.tar.bz2' | wc -l
1338
/l/M/debian ❯❯❯ find . -type f -name '*.debian.tar.bz2' | wc -l
57

Accepted openjdk-8 8u222-b04-3 (source) into experimental

[Matthias Klose]

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Format: 1.8
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 09:14:38 +0200
Source: openjdk-8
Architecture: source
Version: 8u222-b04-3
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: OpenJDK Team 
Changed-By: Matthias Klose 
Changes:
 openjdk-8 (8u222-b04-3) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * Update ARM32 to jdk8u222-b04-aarch32-190603.
   * Regenerate the ppc64el patch.
   * Remove unused patches ppc64le-8036767 and zero-opt.
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Accepted normaliz 3.7.1+ds-2 (source) into experimental

[Jerome Benoit]

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Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 06:47:30 +
Source: normaliz
Architecture: source
Version: 3.7.1+ds-2
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Science Maintainers 

Changed-By: Jerome Benoit 
Changes:
 normaliz (3.7.1+ds-2) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * Debianization:
 - debian/{control,rules}, e-antic support;
 - debian/patches/*:
   - d/p/upstream-fix-spelling_error.patch, introduce;
 - debian/libnormaliz3.lintian-overrides:
   - hardening-no-fortify-functions entry, discard.
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Accepted cyrus-imapd 3.0.8-6 (source all amd64) into unstable

[Xavier Guimard]

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Format: 1.8
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 06:41:23 +0200
Source: cyrus-imapd
Binary: cyrus-admin cyrus-caldav cyrus-caldav-dbgsym cyrus-clients 
cyrus-clients-dbgsym cyrus-common cyrus-common-dbgsym cyrus-dev cyrus-doc 
cyrus-imapd cyrus-imapd-dbgsym cyrus-murder cyrus-murder-dbgsym cyrus-nntpd 
cyrus-nntpd-dbgsym cyrus-pop3d cyrus-pop3d-dbgsym cyrus-replication 
cyrus-replication-dbgsym libcyrus-imap-perl libcyrus-imap-perl-dbgsym
Architecture: source all amd64
Version: 3.0.8-6
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Cyrus Team 
Changed-By: Xavier Guimard 
Description:
 cyrus-admin - Cyrus mail system - administration tools
 cyrus-caldav - Cyrus mail system - CalDAV and CardDAV support
 cyrus-clients - Cyrus mail system - test clients
 cyrus-common - Cyrus mail system - common files
 cyrus-dev  - Cyrus mail system - developer files
 cyrus-doc  - Cyrus mail system - documentation files
 cyrus-imapd - Cyrus mail system - IMAP support
 cyrus-murder - Cyrus mail system - proxies and aggregator
 cyrus-nntpd - Cyrus mail system - NNTP support
 cyrus-pop3d - Cyrus mail system - POP3 support
 cyrus-replication - Cyrus mail system - replication
 libcyrus-imap-perl - Interface to Cyrus imap client imclient library
Closes: 872238
Changes:
 cyrus-imapd (3.0.8-6) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   [ Anthony Prades ]
   * Add cyrus-clients dependency on cyrus-murder (Closes: #872238)
 .
   [ Xavier Guimard ]
   * Add patch to fix arbitrary code execution via CalDAV
 (Closes: CVE-2019-11356)
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