Re: Re: i386 in the future (was Re: 64-bit time_t transition for 32-bit archs: a proposal)

[Johannes Schauer Marin Rodrigues]

Hi,

Quoting Diederik de Haas (2023-05-31 00:51:06)
> > If people have strong opinions about that plan, let us know please.
> 
> I have *strong* opinions about this.
> 
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2023/01/msg00372.html was a message/
> plea to not forget about supporting OLD systems.
> 
> While it may be a no-brainer for a person with a $/€ 1000 a month residual 
> income to just buy new hardware whenever they feel like it, that is not the 
> case for everyone.

I think that depends on where you live. As Steve has said, if you live in a
place with tons of rich people around, so many "old" computers are discarded by
them that it's not a problem for anybody to get hold of one of those for near
to nothing. People with too much money just go through way too many computers
per year, thereby creating a vast amount of old but still usable computers. At
my university I recently saw a whole container filled with "old" desktop
machines to be discarded (systems from 10 years ago, so definitely 64bit
machines). This is just disturbing in my opinion but hey, those old systems
don't run the most recent MS Windows anymore...

This situation is probably very different around the world and I guess there
are many places where it is very hard to get hold of a machine younger than a
decade? Are you talking about those places?

> Besides people in 'third world countries' (I actually don't like such
> qualifications at all), there are also people in the '1st world' who work
> their asses off just to put food on the table, and thus also don't have the
> money to buy new equipment. But if you want to interact with your own
> government, you highly likely will need to have some PC (type) equipment.  It
> could also provide a way to learn/develop new skills.

In my own "1st world" country I know a number of people in that situation and
at least over here, a "computer" doesn't help them to do the daily life things.
They need a smartphone to stay connected with their employer via Whatsapp or
download the apps to participate in the things everybody else participates in.
In Germany they just rolled out a monthly ticket for trains and buses for the
whole country which will be smartphone-only starting next year -- will a person
with less income invest in a new/old desktop machine or in a smartphone new
enough to run such an app? Yes, this is another discussion but I also do not
think your argument applies well to "1st world" countries because of this
reason and the reasons I gave above.

> It's absolutely true that modern machines are more energy efficient. What is
> also true is that the production of new devices has a big environmental
> impact.
> 
> https://mastodon.green/@gerrymcgovern/110329331475328263 said:
> > The European Environmental Bureau has stated that extending the lifespan of
> > smartphones and other electronics by just one year would save the EU as
> > much carbon emissions as taking two million cars off the roads annually.
> 
> I would be VERY disappointed if Debian would abandon people who do NOT have
> the means to just buy new equipment whenever they feel like it.

That argument goes both ways. You could also say that for people with less
income, the electricity costs make using a more modern system cheaper for them.

This of course does not negate the environmental argument but the environmental
argument is a tricky one. A 20 year old machine bought 20 years ago will have
racked up a lot of electricity usage which pales against the energy required to
build and run small single-board machines that are similarly powerful built
today. There is a cut-off point where using an energy-hungry old system *does*
have a higher environmental impact than building a small new system.

> Especially when I see various proposals to make the 'life'/work of companies
> who make BILLIONS a YEAR, easier.  (I'll leave my moral objections to several
> of those aside this time)
> 
> Cheers,
>   Diederik
> 
> PS: Nothing in here should be taken as a personal attack, but as I said I 
> feel 
> rather strongly about this subject. (And communication isn't my strong suit)

There are probably many places in the world where your argument applies well.
Remember though, that this is also a person-power problem. If we can find many
more people interested to keep 20 year old systems alive by working on that in
their free-time, I do not think we would have this discussion. A lot of work is
required to keep an architecture and its installer alive. I suspect kibi would
*love* more hands helping maintain d-i. There will always be someone with real
reasons for using 20 year old systems and wanting to do a fresh installation on
one. The question is, is this worth our free-time or should we do other things
instead? Who is having fun doing that?  We can argue a lot about the social and
environmental reasons for supporting 20 year old systems but the sad fact of
the matter is: if there is nobody there doing the work then that discussion is

Re: i386 in the future (was Re: 64-bit time_t transition for 32-bit archs: a proposal)

[Steve Langasek]

On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 12:51:06AM +0200, Diederik de Haas wrote:
> > >+1 for stopping publishing installers for i386, it has been mentioned
> > >many times but it's always worth repeating: electricity costs to keep
> > >running i386 hardware are already way higher than what it costs to buy
> > >a cheap, low-power replacement like a raspberry pi, that also provides
> > >better performance.

> > Exactly.
> > ...
> > If people have strong opinions about that plan, let us know please.

> I have *strong* opinions about this.

> https://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2023/01/msg00372.html was a message/
> plea to not forget about supporting OLD systems.

> While it may be a no-brainer for a person with a $/€ 1000 a month residual 
> income to just buy new hardware whenever they feel like it, that is not the 
> case for everyone.

> To quote (a part) of that email:
> > I happen to know of a few derivative projects that have been using
> > Debian technology that have brought new life to some really aging equipment
> > and some people in either Third World countries or in communities with low
> > incomes and either limited or non-existent access to modern equipment. One
> > such effort, the antiX distribution, has been effective in reaching poor
> > communities in Brazil recently, and has long been able to reach people with
> > scaled down Debian technology all over the world.
> >
> > I'm wondering if there is some way to provide a "hook" or a way for some of
> > these ten to twenty year old systems to remain functional for those who may
> > not otherwise have a way, other than to run insecure, out of date systems. 
> > If there is a way, even a "side project", I hope that the Debian community
> > can help a few of these derivative distributions assist people worldwide to
> > have access to modern technology,
> > even from systems that are barely "modern" any more.

> Besides people in 'third world countries' (I actually don't like such
> qualifications at all), there are also people in the '1st world' who work
> their asses off just to put food on the table, and thus also don't have
> the money to buy new equipment.  But if you want to interact with your own
> government, you highly likely will need to have some PC (type) equipment. 
> It could also provide a way to learn/develop new skills.

> It's absolutely true that modern machines are more energy efficient. What is 
> also true is that the production of new devices has a big environmental 
> impact. 

> https://mastodon.green/@gerrymcgovern/110329331475328263 said:
> > The European Environmental Bureau has stated that extending the lifespan of
> > smartphones and other electronics by just one year would save the EU as
> > much carbon emissions as taking two million cars off the roads annually.

> I would be VERY disappointed if Debian would abandon people who do NOT have 
> the means to just buy new equipment whenever they feel like it.

> Especially when I see various proposals to make the 'life'/work of companies 
> who make BILLIONS a YEAR, easier.
> (I'll leave my moral objections to several of those aside this time)

For businesses, the transition from 32-bit to 64-bit was several
depreciation cycles ago.

In my city, there is a non-profit that accepts donations of old computers,
refurbishes them, installs Linux, and both sells them and provides them free
to people in need.

They receive x86-64 systems that they determine are *too old to be worth
refurbishing* and they e-cycle them.

Hanging on to systems using power-hungry chips from 20 years ago instead of
intercepting a system such as this is not reducing the number of computers
that end up in the waste stream, it just keeps you stuck with a more
power-hungry system.

-- 
Steve Langasek   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer   https://www.debian.org/
slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org


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Accepted trurl 0.7-1 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 21:28:56 +0200
Source: trurl
Architecture: source
Version: 0.7-1
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Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Michael Ablassmeier 
Changed-By: Michael Ablassmeier 
Changes:
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 .
   * New upstream release.
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Bug#1036965: ITP: libplack-middleware-prometheus-requesttimes-perl -- Perl module that records response times with a prometheus histogram

[mtj]

Package: wnpp
Owner: Mason James 
Severity: wishlist
X-Debbugs-CC: debian-devel@lists.debian.org, debian-p...@lists.debian.org

* Package name: libplack-middleware-prometheus-requesttimes-perl
  Version : 0.0001
  Upstream Author : Colin Newell 
* URL : 
https://metacpan.org/release/Plack-Middleware-Prometheus-RequestTimes
* License : Artistic or GPL-1+
  Programming Lang: Perl
  Description : Perl module that records response times with a prometheus 
histogram

To setup a prometheus metrics app in your PSGI application, hook this
Plack::Middleware::Prometheus::RequestTimes middleware up with a histogram and
the metrics can report on your response times.

use strict;

use warnings;

use My::Website;

use Net::Prometheus;

use Net::Prometheus::ProcessCollector;

my $client = Net::Prometheus->new;

$client->register( Net::Prometheus::ProcessCollector->new(

prefix => "parent_process",

pid => getppid(),

) );

my $response_times = $client->new_histogram(

name => "response_times",

help => "Application response times",

);


--
Generated with the help of dpt-gen-itp(1) from pkg-perl-tools.

Re: i386 in the future (was Re: 64-bit time_t transition for 32-bit archs: a proposal)

[Diederik de Haas]

[Please CC me in replies as I'm not subscribed to this list]

I hope I'm not too late for this discussion ...

Steve McIntyre  wrote:
> Luca Boccassi wrote:
> >On Fri, 19 May 2023 at 12:42, Steve McIntyre  wrote:
> >> I'm planning on stopping publishing installer images for i386
> >> soon. Why? We should be strongly encouraging users to move away from
> >> If they're still running i386 *hardware*, then they should be replacing
> >> that hardware with more modern, more capable, more *efficient* stuff.
> >> 
> >+1 for stopping publishing installers for i386, it has been mentioned
> >many times but it's always worth repeating: electricity costs to keep
> >running i386 hardware are already way higher than what it costs to buy
> >a cheap, low-power replacement like a raspberry pi, that also provides
> >better performance.
> 
> Exactly.
> ...
> If people have strong opinions about that plan, let us know please.

I have *strong* opinions about this.

https://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2023/01/msg00372.html was a message/
plea to not forget about supporting OLD systems.

While it may be a no-brainer for a person with a $/€ 1000 a month residual 
income to just buy new hardware whenever they feel like it, that is not the 
case for everyone.

To quote (a part) of that email:
> I happen to know of a few derivative projects that have been using
> Debian technology that have brought new life to some really aging equipment
> and some people in either Third World countries or in communities with low
> incomes and either limited or non-existent access to modern equipment. One
> such effort, the antiX distribution, has been effective in reaching poor
> communities in Brazil recently, and has long been able to reach people with
> scaled down Debian technology all over the world.
>
> I'm wondering if there is some way to provide a "hook" or a way for some of
> these ten to twenty year old systems to remain functional for those who may
> not otherwise have a way, other than to run insecure, out of date systems. 
> If there is a way, even a "side project", I hope that the Debian community
> can help a few of these derivative distributions assist people worldwide to
> have access to modern technology,
> even from systems that are barely "modern" any more.

Besides people in 'third world countries' (I actually don't like such 
qualifications at all), there are also people in the '1st world' who work their 
asses off just to put food on the table, and thus also don't have the money to 
buy new equipment. But if you want to interact with your own government, you 
highly likely will need to have some PC (type) equipment.
It could also provide a way to learn/develop new skills.

It's absolutely true that modern machines are more energy efficient. What is 
also true is that the production of new devices has a big environmental 
impact. 

https://mastodon.green/@gerrymcgovern/110329331475328263 said:
> The European Environmental Bureau has stated that extending the lifespan of
> smartphones and other electronics by just one year would save the EU as
> much carbon emissions as taking two million cars off the roads annually.


I would be VERY disappointed if Debian would abandon people who do NOT have 
the means to just buy new equipment whenever they feel like it.

Especially when I see various proposals to make the 'life'/work of companies 
who make BILLIONS a YEAR, easier.
(I'll leave my moral objections to several of those aside this time)

Cheers,
  Diederik

PS: Nothing in here should be taken as a personal attack, but as I said I feel 
rather strongly about this subject. (And communication isn't my strong suit)

signature.asc
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Accepted sasl-xoauth2 0.20-1 (source) into experimental

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Accepted python-scp 0.14.5-1~exp1 (source) into experimental

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Changes:
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Accepted glibmm2.68 2.76.0-3 (source) into experimental

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Launchpad-Bugs-Fixed: 2021635
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Bug#1036962: ITP: libovxlib-dev -- Lightweight wrapper for OpenVX Neural-Network Extension provided by VeriSilicon to facilitate the deployment of Neural-Networks on OpenVX enabled hardware accelerato

[Leonardo Held]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Leonardo Held 
X-Debbugs-Cc: debian-devel@lists.debian.org

* Package name : libovxlib-dev
Version : x.y.z
Upstream Author : Name 
* URL : https://www.example.org/
* License : (GPL, LGPL, BSD, MIT/X, etc.)
Programming Lang: (C, C++, C#, Perl, Python, etc.)
Description : Lightweight wrapper for OpenVX Neural-Network Extension
provided by VeriSilicon
to facilitate the deployment of Neural-Networks on OpenVX enabled
hardware accelerators

Please also include as much relevant information as possible.
For example, consider answering the following questions:
- why is this package useful/relevant? is it a dependency for
another package? do you use it? if there are other packages
providing similar functionality, how does it compare?

libovxlib-dev is a dependency for certain tensorflow-lite deployments
that use custom delegates (ie, hardware accelerators).
It's extremely useful in embedded AI applications using iMX processors.
I also plan to send an ITP for libnnrt and and libneuralnetworks, which
are dependent of libovxlib.

- how do you plan to maintain it? inside a packaging team
(check list at https://wiki.debian.org/Teams)? are you
looking for co-maintainers? do you need a sponsor?

Company (see text after @ in my e-mail) actively uses this software, and
we already have it packaged
downstream.

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Join our webinar:
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- Sensors Converge | California, USA | June 20-22, 2023

Accepted heudiconv 0.13.1-1 (source) into experimental

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 14:32:31 -0400
Source: heudiconv
Architecture: source
Version: 0.13.1-1
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Med Packaging Team 

Changed-By: Yaroslav Halchenko 
Changes:
 heudiconv (0.13.1-1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * Recent upstream release
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Re: [2016] client-side signature checking of Debian archives (Re: When should we https our mirrors?)

[James Addison]

In follow-up to: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2016/10/msg00592.html

As an update here: the default recommendation in the Debian release notes now
recommends[1] HTTPS instead of HTTPS by default.

Despite the validity of many of the theoretical concerns about APT over HTTP,
I reckon that there are a few (maybe unusual) reasons that could be argued in
favour of plain HTTP:

  * It allows other devices on the local network segment to inspect the
content that other nodes are sending and receiving.  When you pay for a
drink or meal at a bar, typical etiquette is _not_ to place the banknotes
inside a sealed envelope (TLS) during the handover.  In other words:
integrity can increase as the number of potential viewers increases. (I
seem to remember reading a similar phrase about the depth of bugs in code)

In that kind of scenario, an integrity token is provided inline as part of
message (EURion constellation or similar).

  * In the context of machine learning -- where data gathered can be used to
inform and train other processes -- some individuals and organizations may
in fact _want_ to share their workflows with all, as opposed to with only
one other, potentially culturally-distant, entity.

  * As another thread participant mentioned, if you don't trust a global
passive adversary, then it may be sensible to question whether you can
trust their certificate issuers (I admit that your HPKP comments partially
address this concern).  If you don't trust either, you might choose to save
some CPU cycles (both for yourself and those who may be gathering your
data).

Reflections have been published[2] about progress and change as it has occurred
over the past decade or so.  As someone who definitely tends paranoid, despite
some of the reassurances written there, I don't fully trust that the migration
from "your traffic was mostly snoopable in transit" to "your traffic is mostly
encrypted (but to endpoints that we could lean on)" is a true shift for most
affected parties, other than creating some new social dynamics and reallocating
equipment and personnel.

Perhaps that's all an unusual perspective, and/or can be refuted with public
information - I certainly don't have any private information to prove it.

I like privacy, and I think I've been more of an advocate for software privacy
than against (in fact, some of the arguments I've developed in this message
are relatively new to me).  But I do begin to wonder whether the required
overheads for it -- especially given the limitations of the practical, human
systems that operate them -- really benefit the everyday person, or instead
only a (questionably trustworthy) few who want privacy for nefarious reasons.

[1] - 
https://www.debian.org/releases/testing/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html#network

[2] - https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-farrell-tenyearsafter-00.html

Accepted openssl 3.1.1-1 (source) into experimental

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 19:46:00 +0200
Source: openssl
Architecture: source
Version: 3.1.1-1
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian OpenSSL Team 
Changed-By: Sebastian Andrzej Siewior 
Closes: 1034720
Changes:
 openssl (3.1.1-1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * Import 3.1.1
 - CVE-2023-0464 (Excessive Resource Usage Verifying X.509 Policy
   Constraints) (Closes: #1034720).
 - CVE-2023-0465 (Invalid certificate policies in leaf certificates are
   silently ignored).
 - CVE-2023-0466 (Certificate policy check not enabled).
 - Alternative fix for CVE-2022-4304 (Timing Oracle in RSA Decryption).
 - CVE-2023-2650 (Possible DoS translating ASN.1 object identifiers).
 - CVE-2023-1255 (Input buffer over-read in AES-XTS implementation on 64 
bit ARM).
 - Add new symbol.
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Bug#1036951: ITP: bitsnpicas -- Bitmap & Emoji font creation & conversion tools

[Gürkan Myczko]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Gürkan Myczko 
X-Debbugs-Cc: debian-devel@lists.debian.org

* Package name: bitsnpicas
  Version : 2.0+ds
  Upstream Authors: Rebecca G. Bettencourt
  URL : https://github.com/kreativekorp/bitsnpicas
* License : MPL-1.1
  Description : Bitmap & Emoji font creation & conversion tools
 This is a set of tools for creating and converting bitmap and emoji 
fonts.
 Bitmap font functions can be accessed both with a GUI and from a 
command

 line. Emoji font functions can only be accessed from a command line.

Will be Font team maintained...

Accepted openssl 3.0.9-1 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Source: openssl
Architecture: source
Version: 3.0.9-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian OpenSSL Team 
Changed-By: Sebastian Andrzej Siewior 
Closes: 1034720
Changes:
 openssl (3.0.9-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Import 3.0.7
- CVE-2023-0464 (Excessive Resource Usage Verifying X.509 Policy
  Constraints) (Closes: #1034720).
- CVE-2023-0465 (Invalid certificate policies in leaf certificates are
  silently ignored).
- CVE-2023-0466 (Certificate policy check not enabled).
- Alternative fix for CVE-2022-4304 (Timing Oracle in RSA Decryption).
- CVE-2023-2650 (Possible DoS translating ASN.1 object identifiers).
- CVE-2023-1255 (Input buffer over-read in AES-XTS implementation on 64 bit 
ARM).
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Accepted rust-pyo3 0.18.3-1 (source) into experimental

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 16:40:03 +0100
Source: rust-pyo3
Architecture: source
Version: 0.18.3-1
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Rust Maintainers 

Changed-By: Jelmer Vernooij 
Changes:
 rust-pyo3 (0.18.3-1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * Package pyo3 0.18.3 from crates.io using debcargo 2.6.0
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Accepted rust-pyo3-macros 0.18.3-1 (source) into experimental

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 16:38:48 +0100
Source: rust-pyo3-macros
Architecture: source
Version: 0.18.3-1
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Rust Maintainers 

Changed-By: Jelmer Vernooij 
Changes:
 rust-pyo3-macros (0.18.3-1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * Package pyo3-macros 0.18.3 from crates.io using debcargo 2.6.0
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Accepted rust-pyo3-macros-backend 0.18.3-1 (source) into experimental

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Format: 1.8
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 16:37:51 +0100
Source: rust-pyo3-macros-backend
Architecture: source
Version: 0.18.3-1
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Rust Maintainers 

Changed-By: Jelmer Vernooij 
Changes:
 rust-pyo3-macros-backend (0.18.3-1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * Package pyo3-macros-backend 0.18.3 from crates.io using debcargo 2.6.0
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rust-pyo3-macros-backend_0.18.3-1_source.buildinfo
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rust-pyo3-macros-backend_0.18.3.orig.tar.gz
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rust-pyo3-macros-backend_0.18.3-1.debian.tar.xz
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rust-pyo3-macros-backend_0.18.3-1_source.buildinfo

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Accepted rust-pyo3-ffi 0.18.3-1 (source) into experimental

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Format: 1.8
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 16:39:20 +0100
Source: rust-pyo3-ffi
Architecture: source
Version: 0.18.3-1
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Rust Maintainers 

Changed-By: Jelmer Vernooij 
Changes:
 rust-pyo3-ffi (0.18.3-1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * Package pyo3-ffi 0.18.3 from crates.io using debcargo 2.6.0
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rust-pyo3-ffi_0.18.3.orig.tar.gz
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rust-pyo3-ffi_0.18.3-1.debian.tar.xz
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rust-pyo3-ffi_0.18.3-1_source.buildinfo

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Accepted rust-pep440-rs 0.3.9-3 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Format: 1.8
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 16:35:37 +0100
Source: rust-pep440-rs
Architecture: source
Version: 0.3.9-3
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Rust Maintainers 

Changed-By: Jelmer Vernooij 
Changes:
 rust-pep440-rs (0.3.9-3) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * pep440-rs: Add patch to relax dependency on serde
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rust-pep440-rs_0.3.9-3.debian.tar.xz
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rust-pep440-rs_0.3.9-3.debian.tar.xz
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rust-pep440-rs_0.3.9-3_source.buildinfo

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Accepted appconfig 1.71-2.2 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 17:16:46 CEST
Source: appconfig
Binary: 
Architecture: source
Version: 1.71-2.2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Stefan Hornburg (Racke) 
Changed-By: gregor herrmann 
Description: 
Closes: 1036412
Changes:
 appconfig (1.71-2.2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Non-maintainer upload.
   * Fix "Missing copyright info in d/copyright":
 add additional copyright holder, and update copyright years.
 (Closes: #1036412)
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Accepted yad 7.2-0.1 (source) into experimental

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 16:27:22 +0200
Source: yad
Architecture: source
Version: 7.2-0.1
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Alexis 
Changed-By: Bastian Germann 
Closes: 1024523 1029395
Changes:
 yad (7.2-0.1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * Non-maintainer upload.
   * Update debhelper to compat 10.
   * Switch to GitHub upstream and import new version (Closes: #1029395).
   * Salvage packgage (Closes: #1024523).
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Accepted rust-pyo3-build-config 0.18.3-1 (source) into experimental

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Format: 1.8
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 15:44:24 +0100
Source: rust-pyo3-build-config
Architecture: source
Version: 0.18.3-1
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Rust Maintainers 

Changed-By: Jelmer Vernooij 
Changes:
 rust-pyo3-build-config (0.18.3-1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * Package pyo3-build-config 0.18.3 from crates.io using debcargo 2.6.0
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Accepted gcc-11-cross 19 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Format: 1.8
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 16:25:08 +0200
Source: gcc-11-cross
Architecture: source
Version: 19
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian GCC Maintainers 
Changed-By: Matthias Klose 
Changes:
 gcc-11-cross (19) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Build using gcc 11.4.0-1.
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Accepted gcc-11-cross-ports 16 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Maintainer: Debian GCC Maintainers 
Changed-By: Matthias Klose 
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 gcc-11-cross-ports (16) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Build using gcc 11.4.0-1.
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Accepted dynarmic 6.4.8+ds-1 (source) into experimental

[Debian FTP Masters]

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   * New upstream version 6.4.8+ds
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Re: another problem class from /usr-merge [Re: Bug#1036920: systemd: please ship a placeholder in /usr/lib/modules-load.d/]

[Luca Boccassi]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 at 14:09, Helmut Grohne  wrote:
>
> Hi Luca,
>
> On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 11:23:07AM +0100, Luca Boccassi wrote:
> > > > - unmerged-usr paths are no longer supported
> > >
> > > Then you argue that this bug would affect only unmerged systems, while
> > > it actually is in reverse. Unmerged systems are unaffected by this bug
> > > class. The deletion that Andreas describes can only happen due to the
> > > aliasing introduced by merging. This bug class only affects merged
> > > systems.
> >
> > No, this bug report only affects unmerged systems and has no effect on
> > merged ones, as the actual bug after the analysis and discussion is
> > that some packages since Bullseye install modules-load.d/ files in the
> > wrong directory, that nothing actually reads (since Bullseye!),
> > effectively making them useless, but nobody ever noticed, and I can
> > only speculate that this could be due to the fact that the vast
> > majority of systems have been merged and thus there's no difference
> > (alternatively it could be that such packages have extremely low
> > popcon, I have not checked). If these packages were used on unmerged
> > system, these bugs would be very real - the functionality they provide
> > would be broken.
>
> Given that we are saying exactly the opposite of each other, it seems
> likely that we are talking about different things (thanks to that kind
> soul pointing it out to me).
>
> As I read your reply, it seems to me that you see the bug in
> multipath-tools and other packages that ship files in
> /lib/modules-load.d as opposed to /usr/lib/modules-load.d. Assuming
> that's your view, what you write very much makes sense - including the
> assertion that it only affects unmerged systems. Do you confirm? If you
> confirm, I'd see what you see as the bug we are talking about as not an
> issue in systemd at all, but as multiple issues in other packages (such
> as multipath-tools) that fail at integrating properly with systemd (when
> unmerged, which is unsupported, so not worth fixing in bookworm). Given
> that the bug at hand is filed against systemd (rather than
> multipath-tools), it did not occur to me earlier that you were having
> this problem in mind.

Yes, that's exactly right - this behaviour was changed a long time ago
(for Bullseye) as mentioned earlier in the thread:

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=971282

so it could of course be changed back so that files in /lib are picked
up instead - but as mentioned, I don't think it's worth it, especially
not this late. Packages installed in unmerged Bullseye shipping files
in /lib/modules-load.d have been buggy ever since, and on a merged
system it's just a cosmetic issue. This is (was) a severity serious
bug against src:systemd and that's how I approached it.

> As I understand what Andreas wrote (maybe he can confirm), the problem
> he sees is that /usr/lib/modules-load.d (the directory) disappears when
> removing other packages such as multipath-tools. So it's very much not
> about whether systemd deals with the dropins placed by multipath-tools.
> It's about removal of a package having unintended side-effects (removing
> a directory still owned by systemd). And this very problem, can only be
> experienced on merged /usr. The absence of a directory may not seem like
> a big deal to you and none of us seems convinced that it has a
> practically relevant impact on using systemd, but it very much has an
> impact on piuparts and testing migration and that - to me - is what this
> bug report has been about.
>
> Does that make more sense to you now?

Yes, that makes sense. However I don't think it needs to be a release
blocker? AFAIK there are no load-modules.d/ migrations left to do for
bookworm, and we can make sure piuparts is happy in trixie. Do you see
any reason why this should be a release blocker?

Kind regards,
Luca Boccassi

Re: another problem class from /usr-merge [Re: Bug#1036920: systemd: please ship a placeholder in /usr/lib/modules-load.d/]

[Helmut Grohne]

Hi Luca,

On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 11:23:07AM +0100, Luca Boccassi wrote:
> > > - unmerged-usr paths are no longer supported
> >
> > Then you argue that this bug would affect only unmerged systems, while
> > it actually is in reverse. Unmerged systems are unaffected by this bug
> > class. The deletion that Andreas describes can only happen due to the
> > aliasing introduced by merging. This bug class only affects merged
> > systems.
> 
> No, this bug report only affects unmerged systems and has no effect on
> merged ones, as the actual bug after the analysis and discussion is
> that some packages since Bullseye install modules-load.d/ files in the
> wrong directory, that nothing actually reads (since Bullseye!),
> effectively making them useless, but nobody ever noticed, and I can
> only speculate that this could be due to the fact that the vast
> majority of systems have been merged and thus there's no difference
> (alternatively it could be that such packages have extremely low
> popcon, I have not checked). If these packages were used on unmerged
> system, these bugs would be very real - the functionality they provide
> would be broken.

Given that we are saying exactly the opposite of each other, it seems
likely that we are talking about different things (thanks to that kind
soul pointing it out to me).

As I read your reply, it seems to me that you see the bug in
multipath-tools and other packages that ship files in
/lib/modules-load.d as opposed to /usr/lib/modules-load.d. Assuming
that's your view, what you write very much makes sense - including the
assertion that it only affects unmerged systems. Do you confirm? If you
confirm, I'd see what you see as the bug we are talking about as not an
issue in systemd at all, but as multiple issues in other packages (such
as multipath-tools) that fail at integrating properly with systemd (when
unmerged, which is unsupported, so not worth fixing in bookworm). Given
that the bug at hand is filed against systemd (rather than
multipath-tools), it did not occur to me earlier that you were having
this problem in mind.

As I understand what Andreas wrote (maybe he can confirm), the problem
he sees is that /usr/lib/modules-load.d (the directory) disappears when
removing other packages such as multipath-tools. So it's very much not
about whether systemd deals with the dropins placed by multipath-tools.
It's about removal of a package having unintended side-effects (removing
a directory still owned by systemd). And this very problem, can only be
experienced on merged /usr. The absence of a directory may not seem like
a big deal to you and none of us seems convinced that it has a
practically relevant impact on using systemd, but it very much has an
impact on piuparts and testing migration and that - to me - is what this
bug report has been about.

Does that make more sense to you now?

Helmut

Accepted palo 2.24 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Version: 2.24
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Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Helge Deller 
Changed-By: Helge Deller 
Changes:
 palo (2.24) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   [ Helge Deller ]
   * ipl: Fix loading of ramdisk in qemu
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Accepted gnome-boxes 43.5-1 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian GNOME Maintainers 

Changed-By: Jeremy Bícha 
Changes:
 gnome-boxes (43.5-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream bugfix release
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Accepted evolution-ews 3.48.2-1 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 20:15:13 -0400
Source: evolution-ews
Built-For-Profiles: noudeb
Architecture: source
Version: 3.48.2-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian GNOME Maintainers 

Changed-By: Amin Bandali 
Changes:
 evolution-ews (3.48.2-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Team upload
 .
   [ Amin Bandali ]
   * New upstream release
 - Bug Fixes:
   + Sometimes fails to delete recurring event occurrence
 (https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/evolution-ews/-/issues/232)
   + Ask for OAuth2 credentials for autodiscovery
 (https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/evolution-ews/-/issues/234)
   * Bump evolution and evolution-data-server build-dependencies to >= 3.48.2
 .
   [ Jeremy Bícha ]
   * Release to unstable
 .
 evolution-ews (3.48.1-1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release
   * Bump evolution and evolution-data-server build dependencies to >= 3.48.1
 .
 evolution-ews (3.48.0-1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release
   * Bump evolution and evolution-data-server build dependencies to >= 3.48.0
 .
 evolution-ews (3.47.3-1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release
   * Bump evolution and evolution-data-server build dependencies to >= 3.47.3
 .
 evolution-ews (3.47.2-1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release (for GNOME 44)
   * Bump evolution and evolution-data-server build dependencies to >= 3.47.2
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Accepted sdkmanager 0.6.5-1 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Hans-Christoph Steiner 
Changed-By: Hans-Christoph Steiner 
Changes:
 sdkmanager (0.6.5-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream version 0.6.5
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Accepted phosh-tour 0.28.0-1 (source) into experimental

[Debian FTP Masters]

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 .
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Accepted vala 0.56.8-1 (source) into experimental

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian GNOME Maintainers 

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 .
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Accepted php-phpstan-phpdoc-parser 1.21.3-1 (source) into experimental

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Maintainer: Debian PHP PEAR Maintainers 
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Changes:
 php-phpstan-phpdoc-parser (1.21.3-1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   [ Ondřej Mirtes ]
   * Prepare for 1.22.x
 .
   [ David Prévot ]
   * Adapt to recent version of PHPUnit (10)
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Accepted igtf-policy-bundle 1.120-1 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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 .
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   * Removed discontinued NIIF-Root-CA-2 (HU)
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Re: another problem class from /usr-merge [Re: Bug#1036920: systemd: please ship a placeholder in /usr/lib/modules-load.d/]

[Luca Boccassi]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 at 10:53, Helmut Grohne  wrote:
>
> Context for d-devel:
>
> Andreas Beckmann noticed that systemd ships an empty directory
> /usr/lib/modules-load.d. When removing a package that ships a file in
> /lib/modules-load.d (such as multipath-tools), dpkg may in some
> circumstanced delete the empty directory owned by systemd.
>
> On Mon, May 29, 2023 at 07:24:09PM +0100, Luca Boccassi wrote:
> > Given what was discussed:
>
> I think the conclusion is drawn too quickly here.
>
> > - bookworm is in hard freeze
> > - there is no functional impact
>
> In effect, this bug report is an instance of a bug class. I am in the
> process of quantifying its effects, but I do not have useful numbers at
> this time. As an initial gauge, I think it is about 2000 binary packages
> that ship empty directories (which does not imply them to be affected,
> rather this is to be seen as a grossly imprecise upper bound).

Not quite - this bug report is filed against src:systemd, and it's
about precisely one thing - the modules-load.d/ directory, and the
reply you are quoting is talking explicitly about that.

> > - unmerged-usr paths are no longer supported
>
> Then you argue that this bug would affect only unmerged systems, while
> it actually is in reverse. Unmerged systems are unaffected by this bug
> class. The deletion that Andreas describes can only happen due to the
> aliasing introduced by merging. This bug class only affects merged
> systems.

No, this bug report only affects unmerged systems and has no effect on
merged ones, as the actual bug after the analysis and discussion is
that some packages since Bullseye install modules-load.d/ files in the
wrong directory, that nothing actually reads (since Bullseye!),
effectively making them useless, but nobody ever noticed, and I can
only speculate that this could be due to the fact that the vast
majority of systems have been merged and thus there's no difference
(alternatively it could be that such packages have extremely low
popcon, I have not checked). If these packages were used on unmerged
system, these bugs would be very real - the functionality they provide
would be broken.

Now you want to talk about a different issue - that is fine of course,
but it's not what I was talking about.

> In my earlier reply, I also asked Andreas for a practical impact on
> systemd users and suggested lowering the severity of this instance.
> However, there is more to consider. This poses a problem to piuparts and
> thus testing migration. Making piuparts happy is a use case of its own.
> When a mitigation for non-essential adduser broke piuparts (again, I'm
> sorry about that), the release team decided that piuparts is an
> important piece of the release process and therefore the change was to
> be reverted. As a result, apt now depends on adduser in bookworm again.
> To be clear, I fully support the decision that has been made here and
> thank the release team for dealing with resulting issues (e.g. delayed
> migration of other packages). Since the problem we are discussing here
> is quite similar, I argue that this problem class also should be
> considered release critical in general, because it may impact testing
> migration. That being said, IANARM and I therefore leave that judgement
> to others.

/lib/modules-load.d/ being ignored (and thus packages shipping files
there being buggy) has been the case since Bullseye, as already
mentioned. If it was not release critical for Bullseye, why should it
be for Bookworm?

> > - as soon as trixie opens for business we might just canonicalize
> > everything (assuming all the ducks will be in a row)
>
> You make this look like a simple way forward.

The qualifications in that sentence were included to do precisely the opposite.

Kind regards,
Luca Boccassi

Accepted php-doctrine-deprecations 1.1.0-1 (source) into experimental

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 12:06:19 +0200
Source: php-doctrine-deprecations
Architecture: source
Version: 1.1.0-1
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian PHP PEAR Maintainers 
Changed-By: David Prévot 
Changes:
 php-doctrine-deprecations (1.1.0-1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * Upload to experimental during the freeze
   * Be tolerant about line number pointer (#39)
   * Update standards version to 4.6.2, no changes needed.
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Re: another problem class from /usr-merge [Re: Bug#1036920: systemd: please ship a placeholder in /usr/lib/modules-load.d/]

[Helmut Grohne]

On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 11:53:01AM +0200, Helmut Grohne wrote:
> Are there other kinds of resources in dpkg that can be shared like
> directories? Thinking... Yes, regular files. How can files be shared?
> Via Multi-Arch: same.  Can that happen for real? Yes. I've attached an
> artificial reproducer.  Does it happen in the archive? I really cannot
> tell yet. In effect, this is yet another bug class derived from Andreas'
> directory-loss bug class. This new file-loss bug class is distinct from
> the file-loss bug class that resulted in the moratorium.

Sorry, for the double mail. That attachment thing is so easy to forget.

Also dropped Luca as his email bounces.

Helmut


multiarchbug.sh
Description: Bourne shell script

another problem class from /usr-merge [Re: Bug#1036920: systemd: please ship a placeholder in /usr/lib/modules-load.d/]

[Helmut Grohne]

Context for d-devel:

Andreas Beckmann noticed that systemd ships an empty directory
/usr/lib/modules-load.d. When removing a package that ships a file in
/lib/modules-load.d (such as multipath-tools), dpkg may in some
circumstanced delete the empty directory owned by systemd.

On Mon, May 29, 2023 at 07:24:09PM +0100, Luca Boccassi wrote:
> Given what was discussed:

I think the conclusion is drawn too quickly here.

> - bookworm is in hard freeze
> - there is no functional impact

In effect, this bug report is an instance of a bug class. I am in the
process of quantifying its effects, but I do not have useful numbers at
this time. As an initial gauge, I think it is about 2000 binary packages
that ship empty directories (which does not imply them to be affected,
rather this is to be seen as a grossly imprecise upper bound).

> - unmerged-usr paths are no longer supported

Then you argue that this bug would affect only unmerged systems, while
it actually is in reverse. Unmerged systems are unaffected by this bug
class. The deletion that Andreas describes can only happen due to the
aliasing introduced by merging. This bug class only affects merged
systems.

In my earlier reply, I also asked Andreas for a practical impact on
systemd users and suggested lowering the severity of this instance.
However, there is more to consider. This poses a problem to piuparts and
thus testing migration. Making piuparts happy is a use case of its own.
When a mitigation for non-essential adduser broke piuparts (again, I'm
sorry about that), the release team decided that piuparts is an
important piece of the release process and therefore the change was to
be reverted. As a result, apt now depends on adduser in bookworm again.
To be clear, I fully support the decision that has been made here and
thank the release team for dealing with resulting issues (e.g. delayed
migration of other packages). Since the problem we are discussing here
is quite similar, I argue that this problem class also should be
considered release critical in general, because it may impact testing
migration. That being said, IANARM and I therefore leave that judgement
to others.

> - as soon as trixie opens for business we might just canonicalize
> everything (assuming all the ducks will be in a row)

You make this look like a simple way forward. For now, I am unconvinced
that canonicalizing paths is the cure to this problem. To dpkg, a
canonicalization looks like removing a file and adding a different file.
Thus the deletion effect that Andreas reported may kick in while
performing that canonicalization. It probably is not that simple though.
As far as I understand it, dpkg first adds new files and then removes
the old ones thus seeing that the directory it tries to delete is not
empty (and we've seen it issue warnings about that case). To me, this
means that we (or rather I) don't understand the problem well enough to
judge it. It might be harmless, but it might be real. We shouldn't be
scared, but "it probably works" may not be the best approach either.

And then Andreas got me thinking. Before delving into that, I'd like to
again express thanks to Andreas. When we see a bug from Andreas, can we
please start with thanking him? Even if the bug ultimately is due to a
limitation in piuparts (as has happened in the adduser case), his work
(and that of other piuparts people such as Nicolas) still adds a lot of
value to Debian. The occasional report that looks harmless initially
tends to point at real problems more often than not.  When he writes a
mail, it is full of detail for looking at the issue. I ask us all to
better appreciate that work. Let me do that now: Thank you Andreas,
Holger and Nicolas!

So let's stack-pop to where he got me thinking. A directory is a
resource that can be shared between packages. Andreas demonstrated that
removing one package may remove such a shared resource still being
needed when another package references it via an aliased path. In
effect, we break dpkg's reference counting of shared resources.

Are there other kinds of resources in dpkg that can be shared like
directories? Thinking... Yes, regular files. How can files be shared?
Via Multi-Arch: same.  Can that happen for real? Yes. I've attached an
artificial reproducer.  Does it happen in the archive? I really cannot
tell yet. In effect, this is yet another bug class derived from Andreas'
directory-loss bug class. This new file-loss bug class is distinct from
the file-loss bug class that resulted in the moratorium.

Etienne Mollier pointed out that "dpkg --verify" helps with diagnosing
whether unexpected file deletion has happened on a particular system. It
also reports other diagnostics and it does not consider any
--path-excludes that have been configured via /etc/dpkg/dpkg.cfg, so use
the output with a grain of salt. Also reinstalling the affected packages
generally resolves the problem on a particular system.

I wish I could give you numbers. I don't have them. I 

Accepted logiops 0.3.2-1 (source) into experimental

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 17:45:11 +0800
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Version: 0.3.2-1
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Chow Loong Jin 
Changed-By: Chow Loong Jin 
Changes:
 logiops (0.3.2-1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * [164e5de] New upstream version 0.3.2
   * [ee14f8c] Refresh patches
   * [9c4d612] Simplify autopkgtests
 logid won't launch without access to /dev/uinput, so it's impossible to do
 the no-crash test
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Accepted logiops 0.3.1-2 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Chow Loong Jin 
Changed-By: Chow Loong Jin 
Closes: 1036902
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 logiops (0.3.1-2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * [4c1f7ce] Build-dep on libdbus-1-dev.
 This should fix the issue of the dbus config file not being installed.
 (Closes: #1036902)
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Accepted gcc-11 11.4.0-1 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Source: gcc-11
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Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian GCC Maintainers 
Changed-By: Matthias Klose 
Changes:
 gcc-11 (11.4.0-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * GCC 11.4.0 release.
   * Update newlib to 4.3.0.
   * Refresh patches.
   * Update libgphobos symbols file.
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Accepted far2l 2.5.1~beta+git20230530+ds-1 (source) into experimental

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 10:37:48 +0200
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Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Gürkan Myczko 
Changed-By: Gürkan Myczko 
Changes:
 far2l (2.5.1~beta+git20230530+ds-1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream version.
   * d/copyright: updated file-pattern.
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Accepted webkit2gtk 2.40.2-1 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Source: webkit2gtk
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Urgency: high
Maintainer: Debian WebKit Maintainers 

Changed-By: Alberto Garcia 
Changes:
 webkit2gtk (2.40.2-1) unstable; urgency=high
 .
   * New upstream release.
   * debian/rules:
 - Pass -VNone to dh_makeshlibs for javascriptcore to keep the behavior
   of the debhelper compat level 11 and earlier.
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Accepted node-babel7 7.20.15+ds1+~cs214.269.168-3 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 12:24:08 +0400
Source: node-babel7
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Version: 7.20.15+ds1+~cs214.269.168-3
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Javascript Maintainers 

Changed-By: Yadd 
Closes: 1036942
Changes:
 node-babel7 (7.20.15+ds1+~cs214.269.168-3) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Team upload
   * Add Breaks+Replaces against node-babel-code-frame << 7
 (Closes: #1036942)
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Accepted mesa 23.1.1-1 (source) into experimental

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian X Strike Force 
Changed-By: Timo Aaltonen 
Launchpad-Bugs-Fixed: 2020604
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 .
   * New upstream release.
   * rules: Set VERSION so that it also includes the packaging
 revision. (LP: #2020604)
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Accepted heat-cfntools 1.4.2-3 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Source: heat-cfntools
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Version: 1.4.2-3
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian OpenStack 
Changed-By: Thomas Goirand 
Closes: 1035994
Changes:
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 .
   * Also package heat-cfntools python module (Closes: #1035994).
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Accepted intel-cmt-cat 4.6.0-1 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Source: intel-cmt-cat
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Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Colin Ian King 
Changed-By: Colin Ian King 
Changes:
 intel-cmt-cat (4.6.0-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Sync with upstream 4.6.0
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Accepted fonts-atarismall 2.3-1 (source) into experimental

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 07:38:15 +0200
Source: fonts-atarismall
Architecture: source
Version: 2.3-1
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Fonts Task Force 
Changed-By: Gürkan Myczko 
Changes:
 fonts-atarismall (2.3-1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream version.
   * d/control: update maintainer email.
   * Bump debhelper version to 13, drop d/compat.
   * Drop d/scripts/ConvertFont.ff.
   * d/copyright: modernized.
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fonts-atarismall_2.3-1.debian.tar.xz
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fonts-atarismall_2.3-1_source.buildinfo
Checksums-Sha256:
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fonts-atarismall_2.3-1.dsc
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fonts-atarismall_2.3.orig.tar.gz
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fonts-atarismall_2.3-1.debian.tar.xz
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fonts-atarismall_2.3-1_source.buildinfo

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