On 01/24/2014 08:06 PM, Marco d'Itri wrote:
On Jan 24, Thomas Goirand z...@debian.org wrote:
Unlike other Oslo deliverables, it should not be used as a Python library,
but
called as a separate process through the oslo-rootwrap command.
Is this really important enough to be part
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On 11/06/2013 07:00 AM, Paul Tagliamonte wrote:
If you want to hold your own system back, there's nothing stoping you
(and your rights granted by f/oss software allow you to do so).
And there's nothing stopping you from contributing to OpenRC either, if
you feel, like me, that it's free of
On 11/06/2013 09:33 PM, Gergely Nagy wrote:
Switching to systemd/upstart/OpenRC will not mean the rest will be
dropped.
Whatever the decision we take, I really wish we deprecate sysv-rc in the
favor of OpenRC. It would really make sense, even if systemd or Upstart
becomes the default.
Also, I
On 11/06/2013 10:14 PM, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
but the propo-
nents of systemd, upstart *and* openrc (to a lesser amount)
alike *all* want to *not* keep supporting init scripts).
Just FYI, here's my view...
I'd love to have a patch in OpenRC so that we'd have something like
/etc/init.d.openrc
On 02/06/2014 05:31 AM, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
Hi.
A few months ago I drafted an idea to rewrite init.d scripts to use a
common implementation and only specify the unique parts in the init.d
scripts themselves. That draft can be found on
URL:
On 02/06/2014 07:36 AM, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
[Russ Allbery]
It's probably worth mentioning that this is basically the path down
which OpenRC went, except that OpenRC has taken the concept somewhat
further to allow the dependencies to be specified in code instead of
comments (using
On 02/06/2014 05:31 AM, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
Hi.
A few months ago I drafted an idea to rewrite init.d scripts to use a
common implementation and only specify the unique parts in the init.d
scripts themselves. That draft can be found on
URL:
On 02/06/2014 07:06 PM, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
Since last summer, OpenRC has full support for LSB headers. Also, I
believe that OpenRC is the only init system replacement which allows
to mix dependencies with LSB or it's own implementation.
That is not the case. Both systemd and upstart
On 02/06/2014 08:34 PM, Simon McVittie wrote:
it'll look rather similar to systemd; and by the time
you've sorted out circular dependencies, it'll have about the same level
of coupling between components as systemd.
Why that? Dependency loops just have to be broken at run time when
calculating
On 02/06/2014 10:59 PM, Sergey B Kirpichev wrote:
$all obviously (as you point out) doesn't work well. Semantically, it
doesn't make sense to have more than one script depending on $all.
What I should use instead? Use case:
http://packages.qa.debian.org/m/monit.html
Usually, you want to
if it integrates well with the
current OpenRC package.
Note that this has verry little to do with *process* supervision, like
it would be done with s6 (http://skarnet.org/software/s6/) which is also
on the OpenRC upstream todo list.
Cheers,
Thomas Goirand (zigo)
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is scanning all LSB header scripts for $all, and fix the
conversion to the OpenRC internal format (at least that's what he wrote
on IRC).
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Thomas Goirand (zigo)
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more easy, and avoid ugly hacks.
Is it too late to fix this as a release goal, so that we get every init
script to use /bin/sh?
Cheers,
Thomas Goirand (zigo)
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On 02/09/2014 11:22 PM, Clint Byrum wrote:
Excerpts from Thomas Goirand's message of 2014-02-09 05:14:17 -0800:
Hi,
While we can discuss during literally *years* about which init system to
use, I think it's more productive to try to improve what we have in
packages, so I'd like to talk about
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On 02/11/2014 12:33 AM, Sam Hocevar wrote:
On Mon, Feb 10, 2014, Craig Bransworth wrote:
Fuck systemd from the bottom of my heart.
Fuck it.
Fuck it.
FUCK SYSTEMD.
I do not want to learn systemd.
I do not want to deal with systemd.
I hate the way it does things.
I hate the way their
On 02/11/2014 02:41 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
On 02/10/2014 06:47 PM, Clint Byrum wrote:
It is pretty ridiculous to me to consider the basic plumbing on the
system as replaceable as the thing that decides where on the screen my
shortcut to Google search for lolcatz goes.
I fully
On 02/11/2014 12:53 PM, Clint Byrum wrote:
Excerpts from Thomas Goirand's message of 2014-02-10 20:20:36 -0800:
On 02/11/2014 04:10 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
Do we allow users to choose their FireWire stack, WiFi or Audio Driver
stack in the kernel? There were several alternative
On 02/11/2014 03:09 AM, Vitaliy Filippov wrote:
Excuse me, but this reply isn't appropriate, just as much as the OP.
Redirecting him to another Unix distribution isn't the thing to do.
Instead, you should have informed the OP that we will continue to
support not only systemd, upstart, or
part of the reason why there's contributors. It is my
hope that the OpenRC community continues its growth.
Thomas Goirand (zigo)
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On 02/11/2014 07:23 PM, Olav Vitters wrote:
IMO (and I'm an interested part / GNOME dude, so no say): blocking
progress is bad. So if someone wants to add OpenRC scripts to packages
and maintenance is low: as packager you should be allowing that to
happen. As long as the time required on
On 02/12/2014 03:01 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
Why not stop here with OpenRC and call it day?
You cannot always win in life :).
Short version:
Why don't you just call it a day, and let me work on what I wish? What
is your problem with me working on it???
Longer version:
Part of why
On 02/12/2014 04:10 AM, Simon McVittie wrote:
Wasn't there some plan to have OpenRC look for its runscripts in a
parallel directory alongside init.d as well as in init.d itself, and
treat /etc/openrc-init.d/foo (or whatever) as a replacement for
/etc/init.d/foo? Then you could just say OpenRC
On 02/12/2014 01:27 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate what you and the other
maintainers are working on. But I think that it's not leading
anywhere.
That's entirely your view, and it's fine if you have it. Though *we got
your point* Adrian, no need to
On 02/12/2014 09:31 PM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
On 02/12/2014 01:49 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
On 02/12/2014 01:27 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate what you and the other
maintainers are working on. But I think that it's not leading
anywhere
On 02/12/2014 11:01 PM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
Again, are you the listmaster or DPL or what?
I thought you were smarter and would understand you went too far and
should stop. Though if the only way to stop your insults is to go to the
DPL or the listmaster, I believe I wont even have
On 02/14/2014 07:01 PM, Ondřej Surý wrote:
Hey all,
I have hacked together a PoC systemd2init shell script on top of
augeas-tools (you need at least jessie version) to autogenerate sysv-rc
script out of simple service file.
It can handle:
Environment
EnvironmentFile
ExecStart
On 02/17/2014 02:52 PM, Andreas Tille wrote:
Hi,
On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 09:05:42PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
I'll agree with that. Audio really should just work unless the hardware
configuration is particularly strange.
+1
+1
So, if your computer has several sounds
On 02/17/2014 03:57 PM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
Exactly what I have been thinking all the time. And I find the argument
all DDs are computer experts, so if they can't get it working it
must be broken a particularly bad one.
No, that's not what I wrote. I wrote that it's too
On 02/17/2014 04:02 PM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
Well. You can't blame PulseAudio if you have an .asoundrc in your home
directory which configures your sound card incorrectly.
Oh !!!
Now I do remember why my pulseaudio system works. It's because I
followed to the letter this howto:
On 02/17/2014 11:03 PM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
I don't see how I am rewriting things in a wrong way. Do you want to
argue about the exact meaning of broken now?
Indeed, words are important. For me, when I read broken it means bugs
upstream, and I'm convince the problem is
On 02/18/2014 10:15 PM, Ondřej Surý wrote:
Hi,
I don't really want to open another can of worms, but what's the opinion
of non-Linux ports maintainers on default init?
Or maybe I should turn it another way:
If we have working OpenRC on kFreeBSD and GNU Hurd, can I do:
Depends:
On 02/18/2014 11:08 PM, Guus Sliepen wrote:
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 10:55:32PM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
On 02/18/2014 10:15 PM, Ondřej Surý wrote:
[...]
If we have working OpenRC on kFreeBSD and GNU Hurd, can I do:
Depends: systemd | openrc
if I want to get rid of non-declarative
On 02/18/2014 11:38 PM, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
Le mardi, 18 février 2014, 22.55:32 Thomas Goirand a écrit :
Once I consider OpenRC ready for it, would it be ok to just replace
sysv-rc by OpenRC, and transform sysv-rc into a transitional package?
What is the opinion of other DDs
On 02/18/2014 11:10 PM, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 10:55:32PM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
Once I consider OpenRC ready for it, would it be ok to just replace
sysv-rc by OpenRC, and transform sysv-rc into a transitional package?
What is the opinion of other DDs
On 02/18/2014 11:38 PM, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
Le mardi, 18 février 2014, 22.55:32 Thomas Goirand a écrit :
Once I consider OpenRC ready for it, would it be ok to just replace
sysv-rc by OpenRC, and transform sysv-rc into a transitional package?
What is the opinion of other DDs
Hi,
I'm replying to everyone in a single mail, I hope that's fine. I'm
therefore a bit repeating myself, sorry for that.
On 02/19/2014 02:18 AM, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
Le mercredi, 19 février 2014, 00.56:07 Thomas Goirand a écrit :
On 02/18/2014 11:10 PM, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
On Tue
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On 02/19/2014 10:44 PM, Michael Biebl wrote:
I'd like to add that switching to openrc breaks the SysV/LSB support in
systemd. Openrc doesn't use the /etc/rc?.d/ directories to create the
symlinks which signal if a service is active for a given runlevel.
(those symlinks are created in
On 02/19/2014 10:47 PM, Michael Biebl wrote:
Am 19.02.2014 00:52, schrieb Russ Allbery:
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh h...@debian.org writes:
They *HAVE* to be provided by the active init system. They are an
impedance matching layer (aka stable API) used by maintainer scripts to
interface
On 02/19/2014 11:53 PM, Simon McVittie wrote:
I suspect the right thing would be to share one implementation of
update-rc.d(8), invoke-rc.d(8) and possibly service(8) between all
supported init implementations, provided by either src:sysvinit or
src:init-system-helpers.
Surprisingly, service
On 02/20/2014 02:10 AM, Kevin Chadwick wrote:
Do people use all those runlevels?
As much as I know, there's only 4 in use (using names of OpenRC here,
since OpenRC has named runlevels):
- shutdown (runlevel 0)
- recovery (runlevel 1)
- reboot (runlevel 6)
- default (often, everything else, but
UPSTREAM TEAM, and an evolving project, which is
IMO important (is there anyone still working on sysv-rc apart from a few
Debian maintainers? my understanding is: we're alone now...).
Cheers,
Thomas Goirand (zigo)
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On 02/20/2014 10:45 PM, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
Le jeudi, 20 février 2014, 22.28:56 Thomas Goirand a écrit :
On 02/20/2014 09:02 PM, Tom H wrote:
What features does sysvinit+openrc have that
sysvinit+sysv-rc+insserv doesn't have?
Just to name a few:
- getting rid of the ugly LSB headers
On 02/23/2014 07:32 PM, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
On 21 Feb 2014, at 12:22, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de wrote:
I agree and understand that this was the way to go back in the old
days, but we shouldn't be using that on current setups.
But you aren't planning on
On 02/23/2014 07:36 PM, Marco d'Itri wrote:
On Feb 23, Jonathan Dowland j...@debian.org wrote:
But you aren't planning on running openrc at all, are you?
Who is? Seriously, would you mind stepping forward?
On 02/23/2014 08:57 PM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 08:50:13PM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
http://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=systemd-sysv+upstart+openrc+sysv-rcshow_installed=onwant_legend=onwant_ticks=onfrom_date=2014-01-01to_date=hlght_date
On 02/21/2014 03:37 AM, Ondřej Surý wrote:
mkdir -p /run/openrc
touch /run/openrc/softlevel
and then it still doesn't work as expected:
root@howl:/etc/init.d# /etc/init.d/rsyslog start
* WARNING: rsyslog is already starting
root@howl:/etc/init.d# /etc/init.d/rsyslog stop
* ERROR:
On 02/24/2014 04:29 AM, Marco d'Itri wrote:
On Feb 23, Thomas Goirand z...@debian.org wrote:
Marco and yourself are *a way* off topic. Please at least have the
decency to rename the subject of the tread to systemd fanboys flamewar
yet-again bashing OpenRC just for fun or something similar
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is activated.
Thomas Goirand (zigo)
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On 02/28/2014 09:40 AM, Michael Gilbert wrote:
On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 12:36 PM, Peter Samuelson wrote:
[micah]
it feels like a bit too aggressive pressure for my tastes. I've seen
a lot of developers of packages who have found out their package will
be removed from testing, but don't have
I salute this effort! :)
On 03/04/2014 02:13 AM, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
As keyring maintainers, we no longer consider 1024D keys to be
trustable. We are not yet mass-removing them, because we don't want to
hamper the project's work, but we definitively will start being more
aggressively
, that should
be fine too, though since it's next to where you are, I would recommend
you to attend the whole week: there's a lot to learn there.
Cheers,
Thomas Goirand (zigo)
[1] http://www.openstack.org/summit/
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On 03/11/2014 11:16 PM, Ian Jackson wrote:
Debian have a certain definition of Freedoms [...]
Whose freedom is impaired, and in what way, by the presence of these
useless but ignored files in the tarball ?
In one of my package, I had openssl.dll in the source tarball (it was of
course removed
On 03/12/2014 05:16 AM, Sune Vuorela wrote:
On 2014-03-11, Paul Tagliamonte paul...@debian.org wrote:
On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 06:09:40PM +, Ian Jackson wrote:
I don't think this is a significant breach of the DFSG.
Ah, but you do acknowledge this *is* a breach, even if a small one.
So
On 03/13/2014 01:21 PM, Charles Plessy wrote:
Le Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 12:48:44AM -0400, Scott Kitterman a écrit :
What percentage of free software in Debian main do you expect then?
Hi Scott,
I expect 100 % in the binary packages.
On the other hand, the upstream tarballs are becoming
On 03/13/2014 01:37 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote:
On Thursday, March 13, 2014 14:21:22 Charles Plessy wrote:
Le Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 12:48:44AM -0400, Scott Kitterman a écrit :
What percentage of free software in Debian main do you expect then?
Hi Scott,
I expect 100 % in the binary packages.
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On 03/13/2014 11:45 PM, Vincent Bernat wrote:
❦ 12 mars 2014 22:26 CET, Ben Finney ben+deb...@benfinney.id.au :
The javascript world is difficult to deal with. They like embedded
copies, they may not really care about API/ABI stability, even for big
projects. Those are difficulties that we
On 03/13/2014 04:57 AM, Jakub Wilk wrote:
* Philipp Kern p...@philkern.de, 2014-03-12, 21:11:
I still think it should be acceptable given that it's an open source
project, it's clearly versioned from which source it comes and we
check by not using the file that no changes have been done to the
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? Until the next stable
release? IMO it'd be bad to have a transition package introduced in the
new Stable if the package wasn't in old-stable.
Thoughts anyone?
Thomas Goirand (zigo)
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system agnostic, logind API compatible
daemon would be another good thing to do.
Thomas Goirand (zigo)
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On 03/30/2014 02:51 AM, Jan Gloser wrote:
Otherwise if you just personally disagree with the design of systemd and
can't describe such a scenario, why not just migrate to Gentoo or BSD?
This has been said a 100 times...
There's no need to migrate away. systemd is not (and will not be)
On 03/30/2014 05:04 PM, Daniel Pocock wrote:
ZRTP - peer to peer encryption, like PGP for VoIP. Once again,
it has been in Jitsi for ages but is not in Empathy[7]
To me, this is the most important feature of them all, and is IMO
mandatory nowadays. But do you know if Asterisk (or other VoIP
On 03/30/2014 06:55 PM, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
Hi,
Thomas Goirand:
P.S: I don't really care which client is the default, because I find the
concept of default app bad in itself, and I think users should be given
the choice, and it isn't the role of a distribution to choose for its
users
On 03/30/2014 07:18 PM, Daniel Pocock wrote:
On 30/03/14 12:29, Thomas Goirand wrote:
On 03/30/2014 05:04 PM, Daniel Pocock wrote:
JitMeet multi-party video conferencing solution[8] for WebRTC
browsers
You should remove the s at browsers. It only supports Chrome(ium).
Most of my own
On 03/30/2014 08:02 PM, The Wanderer wrote:
If it's been decided to continue to require package maintainers to
provide traditional init scripts as well as systemd unit files - e.g.
for Debian's non-Linux ports - then that benefit would be lost.
This, also, has also been discussed. The
On 03/30/2014 10:33 PM, Ben Hutchings wrote:
On Sun, 2014-03-30 at 22:09 +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
Apart maybe if you talk about your mum, which anyway wouldn't install
Argument from sexism?
Don't you help your mum (which I except to know less about Debian than a
DD would)? Most people do
On 03/31/2014 08:27 PM, Jean-Michel Nirgal Vourgère wrote:
Empathy was lacking OTR encryption for text, last time I checked.
Jitsi does support it ok, so I can continue to do secure chat with my
existing contacts from pidgin (previously known as gaim).
BTW, it'd be nice to have a backport of
On 04/02/2014 06:14 AM, Ben Finney wrote:
The deity team de...@lists.debian.org writes:
Everyone else will find in this beta^Wbinary release the fulfilment of
a longstanding dream: /usr/bin/apt provided by apt rather than java.
I don't know, this all seems a bit hasty. What about all my
On 04/03/2014 05:58 PM, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
Am I understanding you correctly that you don't think there are any
situations where compiling out features from the kernel can lead to pid1
not working would be acceptable?
I'd say the opposite way. Could you please explain in which case you
find
On 04/04/2014 09:55 PM, Undefined User wrote:
2014-04-04 10:52 GMT-03:00 Jonathan Dowland j...@debian.org
mailto:j...@debian.org:
We go over the same ground over and over. I'm increasingly in favour
of *no*
default. You must pick one from a list on install. Randomize the list if
to first discuss if it is a good
idea to do that (some may very dislike that idea).
Thomas Goirand (zigo)
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On 04/06/2014 05:06 AM, Matthias Klumpp wrote:
Personally, I think we should offer a DVD instead of a CD as
primary installation medium.
For a desktop use, probably. For server setup, please don't. The CD1 is
better than the netinst CD because... it doesn't need network! And I
prefer a smaller
On 04/08/2014 01:34 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
On 04/07/2014 07:26 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
For a desktop use, probably. For server setup, please don't. The CD1 is
better than the netinst CD because... it doesn't need network!
You deploy your servers from a CD? Don't get me wrong
On 04/08/2014 02:36 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
No need to be rude about that, ok?
I've re-read my posts about a dozen time, and I fail to see which part
you thought was rude.
Thomas
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On 04/08/2014 01:51 AM, Russ Allbery wrote:
And, of course, non-free software from top to bottom.
Not the case of Supermicro: free software, in outdated (and unsafe)
versions, from top to bottom, and impossible for the customer to rebuild
anything.
I wonder if they will one day understand the
, it will be
interesting to see what kind of performance hit you get, and what kind
of security enhancement there is.
Just my 2 cents,
Cheers,
Thomas Goirand (zigo)
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On 04/25/2014 03:48 AM, Manuel A. Fernandez Montecelo wrote:
a) the minified .js is still source code, by definition.
I don't agree with this.
On 04/25/2014 03:48 AM, Manuel A. Fernandez Montecelo wrote:
It's interpreted in different implementations of an ISO-approved
interpreted language,
On 04/28/2014 06:16 PM, Osamu Aoki wrote:
Hi,
Questions are how Debian Jessie packages should be packaged with regards
to configuration choices etc.:
wayland support or not (I am skipping ones using libwayland-dev now)
python3 support or not (Are we moving too?)
X session autostart
On 04/21/2014 02:07 AM, Steven Chamberlain wrote:
OpenBSD developers are extensively cleaning up OpenSSL 1.0.1g
I'm not so sure if cleaning-up really means removing 90k lines of code
without extensive checks. I'd very much prefer some unit tests added to
the current code base, or a *long* audit
, RedHat RDO, etc.) because of the same reasons above.
This isn't new: Debian PPAMAIN would be the perfect fit. But its not
looking like it's coming fast, which is why I asked the FTP masters what
could be done now, though I didn't get a reply from them (too busy?).
Cheers,
Thomas Goirand (zigo
system.
Cheers,
Thomas Goirand (zigo)
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On 05/03/2014 03:21 AM, Svante Signell wrote:
Hi,
Does the Debian guidelines give any hints on who is responsible to
report a patch upstream? Is it the bug submitters or the Debian package
maintainers responsibility (in addition to eventually apply them to the
packages)?
The first one who
and some kinds of gating process (piuparts adequate comes to
mind of course). This could be for example used for spawning VMs to do
some checkings of each git commit on Alioth, with Gerrit as a tool for a
patch review process.
Cheers,
Thomas Goirand (zigo)
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Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Thomas Goirand z...@debian.org
* Package name: bash8
Version : 0.1.0
Upstream Author : Mathew Odden locke...@gmail.com
* URL : https://github.com/openstack-dev/bash8
* License : Apache-2
Programming Lang: Python
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Thomas Goirand z...@debian.org
* Package name: python-os-cloud-config
Version : 0.0.2
Upstream Author : Robert Collins rbtcoll...@hp.com
* URL : https://github.com/openstack/os-cloud-config
* License : Apache-2.0
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