Re: *-doc package should not gzip PDF file
Paul Wise [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 26/06/2006 (05:08) : On Sun, 2006-06-25 at 16:51 -0400, James R. Van Zandt wrote: I have no idea how debhelper works. Are there anybody out there that can help with getting it to stop gzipping files in -doc? dh_compress already has a list of file extensions where (re-)compressing doesn't make sense. I've submitted Bug#375406 with a patch (below) to add .pdf to the list. If I read the discussion correctly up to this point, some PDFs are fairly compressible and some are not. Perhaps dh_compress could evaluate this for each .pdf and only compress those files where the saving is significant (say 40%)? Why this space saving concern for -doc packages? I really don't get it. If you want to save space gzip all html files and make web browsers work out-of-the-box with gzipped html files. If a pdf file is huge because of lack of internal compression then isn't it better to use a tool that compresses internally than to fix the symptoms? Anyway I'm asking for user friendliness. As for the statistics that has been brought up. Are there +3000 pdf files in the doc-packages of Debian? Preben -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: *-doc package should not gzip PDF file
Osamu Aoki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 25/06/2006 (12:17) : I think I gave wrong impression to you. Yes :-) I thought you meant the usual: OK I'll fix your problem if you provide the solution :-) Most of PDF.GZ are under me and tetex-doc people. Once we find good technical solution, we may do it without policy change. See internal compression discusion too. I see. Thanks. Preben -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: *-doc package should not gzip PDF file
On Monday 26 June 2006 11:46, Preben Randhol wrote: Paul Wise [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 26/06/2006 (05:08) : On Sun, 2006-06-25 at 16:51 -0400, James R. Van Zandt wrote: I have no idea how debhelper works. Are there anybody out there that can help with getting it to stop gzipping files in -doc? dh_compress already has a list of file extensions where (re-)compressing doesn't make sense. I've submitted Bug#375406 with a patch (below) to add .pdf to the list. If I read the discussion correctly up to this point, some PDFs are fairly compressible and some are not. Perhaps dh_compress could evaluate this for each .pdf and only compress those files where the saving is significant (say 40%)? Why this space saving concern for -doc packages? I really don't get it. If you want to save space gzip all html files and make web browsers work out-of-the-box with gzipped html files. If a pdf file is huge because of lack of internal compression then isn't it better to use a tool that compresses internally than to fix the symptoms? Anyway I'm asking for user friendliness. As for the statistics that has been brought up. Are there +3000 pdf files in the doc-packages of Debian? You can stroke such sort of queries at http://ara.edos-project.org. For instance, regex'ing on the Package: field, like that: package:/-doc$/ Total 832 packages (and 2090 versions). package:/^doc-/ Total 44 packages (and 97 versions). -- pub 4096R/0E4BD0AB 2003-03-18 people.fccf.net/danchev/key pgp.mit.edu fingerprint 1AE7 7C66 0A26 5BFF DF22 5D55 1C57 0C89 0E4B D0AB -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: *-doc package should not gzip PDF file
Preben Randhol [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If a pdf file is huge because of lack of internal compression then isn't it better to use a tool that compresses internally than to fix the symptoms? The internal compression allowed in a PDF file is dictated by the PDF specification. This open standard is owned by Adobe. Even if this was a free standard, or you buy Adobe, you couldn't just have some discussion and then change it. It would also require to enhance the existing tools (most notably Acrobat and Adobe Reader). Regards, Frank -- Frank Küster Single Molecule Spectroscopy, Protein Folding @ Inst. f. Biochemie, Univ. Zürich Debian Developer (teTeX)
Re: *-doc package should not gzip PDF file
On Saturday 24 June 2006 14:35, Osamu Aoki wrote: --cut-- For architecture: all *-doc packages, there is no technical and practical reason to gzip *.pdf file. I agree. packages are gziped so package size d nt change. We do it just because of policy and bcause helper script is written such way as I said. If anyone wants this to be fixed following should happen. * Write a patch to the debhelper gzip text/pdf/ps file logic - do not compress if the package is *-doc and file extension is pdf. - possibly even avoid compressing if the result of compression gain less than **% (10% ?? or 1KB) of size. debhelper is already smart enough... what is wrong with --exclude (-X.pdf) option of dh_compress ? -- pub 4096R/0E4BD0AB 2003-03-18 people.fccf.net/danchev/key pgp.mit.edu fingerprint 1AE7 7C66 0A26 5BFF DF22 5D55 1C57 0C89 0E4B D0AB -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: *-doc package should not gzip PDF file
On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 20:35:53 +0900 Osamu Aoki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For architecture: all *-doc packages, there is no technical and practical reason to gzip *.pdf file. I agree. packages are gziped so package size d nt change. We do it just because of policy and bcause helper script is written such way as I said. If anyone wants this to be fixed following should happen. * Write a patch to the debhelper gzip text/pdf/ps file logic - do not compress if the package is *-doc and file extension is pdf. - possibly even avoid compressing if the result of compression gain less than **% (10% ?? or 1KB) of size. * propose policy update proposal. (debian-policy) Ok, I'll bring it up here. Unless someone do the first work, nothing will change. It is non-issue for me now (so I will not do it) but I have no reason to object such an rational move. I have no idea how debhelper works. Are there anybody out there that can help with getting it to stop gzipping files in -doc? Preben -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: *-doc package should not gzip PDF file
#include hallo.h * Osamu Aoki [Sat, Jun 24 2006, 08:35:53PM]: If one really really need to gzip, then make all applications in the default Debian system able to handle gzipped files so there is no need to unzip them to your local area and in fact use more space than needed. The point is, if this mechanism is active, there is no point to gzip pdf/ps/txt file in /usr/share/doc/* in regular package either. Of course there is. In regular packages huge docs are just balast. You hardly need those files, maybe once to get the package running. OTOH doc packages are installed explicitely when the user wants to use the docs. I would drop this docs must be compressed rule from the policy and make it a recommendation instead. Something like Documentation files in /usr/share/doc shall be compressed with gzip unless they are intended for regular use, eg. for accompanying documentation (...-doc) packages. Eduard. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: *-doc package should not gzip PDF file
On Sun, Jun 25, 2006 at 08:30:34AM +0200, Preben Randhol wrote: On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 20:35:53 +0900 Osamu Aoki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... * propose policy update proposal. (debian-policy) Ok, I'll bring it up here. Unless someone do the first work, nothing will change. It is non-issue for me now (so I will not do it) but I have no reason to object such an rational move. I have no idea how debhelper works. Are there anybody out there that can help with getting it to stop gzipping files in -doc? I think I gave wrong impression to you. ANYBODY does not work just because you said right thing. Please do not bring up in debian-policy without cordinated fix to the issue. Policy is not tool to force people. We do not need arguments. We need facts, action and technical solution. Most of PDF.GZ are under me and tetex-doc people. Once we find good technical solution, we may do it without policy change. See internal compression discusion too. Regards, Osamu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: *-doc package should not gzip PDF file
Preben Randhol [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Osamu Aoki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If anyone wants this to be fixed following should happen. * Write a patch to the debhelper gzip text/pdf/ps file logic - do not compress if the package is *-doc and file extension is pdf. I have no idea how debhelper works. Are there anybody out there that can help with getting it to stop gzipping files in -doc? dh_compress already has a list of file extensions where (re-)compressing doesn't make sense. I've submitted Bug#375406 with a patch (below) to add .pdf to the list. - Jim Van Zandt --- dh_compress-orig2006-06-25 15:37:11.0 -0400 +++ dh_compress 2006-06-25 15:39:08.0 -0400 @@ -102,6 +102,7 @@ ! -iname *.tgz ! -iname *.z ! -iname *.bz2 \\ ! -iname *-gz ! -iname *-z ! -iname *_z \\ ! -iname *.jar ! -iname *.zip ! -iname *.css \\ + ! -iname *.pdf \\ ! -name copyright 2/dev/null || true; find usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts usr/share/fonts/X11 -type f -name *.pcf 2/dev/null || true; -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: *-doc package should not gzip PDF file
On Sun, 2006-06-25 at 16:51 -0400, James R. Van Zandt wrote: I have no idea how debhelper works. Are there anybody out there that can help with getting it to stop gzipping files in -doc? dh_compress already has a list of file extensions where (re-)compressing doesn't make sense. I've submitted Bug#375406 with a patch (below) to add .pdf to the list. If I read the discussion correctly up to this point, some PDFs are fairly compressible and some are not. Perhaps dh_compress could evaluate this for each .pdf and only compress those files where the saving is significant (say 40%)? -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
*-doc package should not gzip PDF file
Hi relax. As I said, I understand ... See below :) On Sat, Jun 24, 2006 at 06:48:26PM +0200, Preben Randhol wrote: On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 05:52:26 +0900 Osamu Aoki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But, we have fast CPUs so it is not too bad. Under gnome, fileroller will open it for you from filer. But I don't want to unzip a pdf to my home directory. This wasts space. Last pdf I saw gzipped was only 6% smaller. If I have to gunzip it to my local home directory I actually use 194 % more space than I needed if the pdf wasn't gzipped. Neither do I want to unzip. If the system has 10 people and everybody does this then please tell my why gzipping the file saves space?!? So it is non-issue for modern machine. We live with current rule. Maybe I should have said I live ... No it is not. Because I (for one) want user friendliness. Why should I waste my time gunzipping X files to get the info I need to do my job? We talk about Linux being more efficient than say Windows, but if we constantly have to jump over hurdles like this, everything slows down Real issue is saving space for compact systems. There we will have support in dpkg which can be told to drop installing in /usr/share/doc/* or something like it. If it is a compact system, then why on earth would you install doc packages? It doesn't make sense. If one really really need to gzip, then make all applications in the default Debian system able to handle gzipped files so there is no need to unzip them to your local area and in fact use more space than needed. The point is, if this mechanism is active, there is no point to gzip pdf/ps/txt file in /usr/share/doc/* in regular package either. Best wishes Preben For architecture: all *-doc packages, there is no technical and practical reason to gzip *.pdf file. I agree. packages are gziped so package size d nt change. We do it just because of policy and bcause helper script is written such way as I said. If anyone wants this to be fixed following should happen. * Write a patch to the debhelper gzip text/pdf/ps file logic - do not compress if the package is *-doc and file extension is pdf. - possibly even avoid compressing if the result of compression gain less than **% (10% ?? or 1KB) of size. * propose policy update proposal. (debian-policy) Unless someone do the first work, nothing will change. It is non-issue for me now (so I will not do it) but I have no reason to object such an rational move. Please go ahead spend your good time :) Once I see technical solution, I will support policy change. Cheers, Osamu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
