Re: Building GTK programs without installing systemd-sysv?
On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 01:53:32PM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Adam Borowski writes ("Re: Building GTK programs without installing
> systemd-sysv?"):
> > On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 01:47:47PM +0200, Philipp Kern wrote:
> > > You want dbus-x11 instead of dbus-user-session then, I think.
> >
> > For this and related issues, I wonder if it would be better to replace the
> > virtual package pair of {default-,}dbus-session-bus with a real dummy
> > package that has:
> > Depends: dbus-x11 | systemd-sysv, dbus-user-session | dbus-x11
> >
> > This would pull in dbus-user-session for systemd users, dbus-x11 for any
> > other init.
> >
> > (The idea might be bogus -- I haven't slept since Monday morning; anyone up
> > for beersigning near Frankfurt airport until late evening?)
> Obviously it's slightly a bodge but these kind of issues involving
> dbus-user-session seem common enough that it would probably be worth
> doing this as a workaround, if it would be effective. (Which it seems
> like it probably would be.)
>
> Adam, have you tested this (on both systemd and sysvinit systems) ?
Alas, not yet -- I've barely returned from Brazil, and my TODO list is
bursting at seams. Might be good to get feedback first, as talk is cheap.
There are also two separate issues:
* apt failing to find a solution, despite it existing
* functionality of both dbus implementations
For now, we can fix the first part quite easily.
Meow!
--
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Re: Building GTK programs without installing systemd-sysv?
Adam Borowski writes ("Re: Building GTK programs without installing
systemd-sysv?"):
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 01:47:47PM +0200, Philipp Kern wrote:
> > You want dbus-x11 instead of dbus-user-session then, I think.
>
> For this and related issues, I wonder if it would be better to replace the
> virtual package pair of {default-,}dbus-session-bus with a real dummy
> package that has:
> Depends: dbus-x11 | systemd-sysv, dbus-user-session | dbus-x11
>
> This would pull in dbus-user-session for systemd users, dbus-x11 for any
> other init.
>
> (The idea might be bogus -- I haven't slept since Monday morning; anyone up
> for beersigning near Frankfurt airport until late evening?)
I didn't see any response to this and I don't immediately see why it
would be a bad idea.
Obviously it's slightly a bodge but these kind of issues involving
dbus-user-session seem common enough that it would probably be worth
doing this as a workaround, if it would be effective. (Which it seems
like it probably would be.)
Adam, have you tested this (on both systemd and sysvinit systems) ?
Thanks,
Ian.
(at the Worldcon in Dublin so not got the bandwidth to check this
myself.)
--
Ian JacksonThese opinions are my own.
If I emailed you from an address @fyvzl.net or @evade.org.uk, that is
a private address which bypasses my fierce spamfilter.
Re: Building GTK programs without installing systemd-sysv?
On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 at 20:51:36 +, Thorsten Glaser wrote: > I discovered that using the second alternative for *conf > worked: put this into /etc/apt/preferences: > > Package: dconf-gsettings-backend > Pin: version * > Pin-Priority: -1 > > This will cause gconf-gsettings-backend to be used during > the build instead, which does not depend on systemd-sysv. This seems like a bug in gconf-gsettings-backend. gconf versions since 2012 need a D-Bus session bus just as much as dconf does: they have a similar architecture (clients use D-Bus to talk to a server that handles writes, to provide change notification and avoid write conflicts), except that GConf stores many tiny XML files and has a lot more D-Bus round-trips (because in GConf, reads are also done via D-Bus). I suspect gconf-gsettings-backend should probably not have Provides on gconf-backend, since it won't be used unless you specifically ask for it with GSETTINGS_BACKEND=gconf (because GConf is obsolete, and automatically storing settings in it would invite apparent data loss when you install dconf-gsettings-backend, GLib prefers that one, and the settings in GConf are no longer read) so the practical effect is that your settings are probably not stored. smcv
Re: Building GTK programs without installing systemd-sysv?
Hi Simon, I ran into the same problem… in a chroot. Due to some bug, systemd-sysv just did not want to install under cowbuilder for some time. I discovered that using the second alternative for *conf worked: put this into /etc/apt/preferences: Package: dconf-gsettings-backend Pin: version * Pin-Priority: -1 This will cause gconf-gsettings-backend to be used during the build instead, which does not depend on systemd-sysv. gl hf, //mirabilos -- This space for rent. https://paypal.me/mirabilos to support my work.
Re: Building GTK programs without installing systemd-sysv?
On 8/14/2019 2:24 PM, Simon Richter wrote: > The long term question remains though -- I dimly remember that we once had > the same discussion about a library pulling in rpcbind, and that made a lot > of people very unhappy at the time. As Holger said: Then use a chroot. With policy-rc.d you can deny service startup, which is also what the builders do. Kind regards Philipp Kern
Re: Building GTK programs without installing systemd-sysv?
On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 02:24:26PM +0200, Simon Richter wrote: > The long term question remains though -- I dimly remember that we once had > the same discussion about a library pulling in rpcbind, and that made a lot > of people very unhappy at the time. There was also http://bugs.debian.org/658541 for libimobiledevice and usbmuxd (it is now Recommends). -- WBR, wRAR signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Building GTK programs without installing systemd-sysv?
Hi, On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 01:47:47PM +0200, Philipp Kern wrote: > You want dbus-x11 instead of dbus-user-session then, I think. Ah, that works, and aptitude is able to resolve that automatically (but apt gets confused). So the immediate solution works for me and I'll file a bug against apt. Thanks a lot! The long term question remains though -- I dimly remember that we once had the same discussion about a library pulling in rpcbind, and that made a lot of people very unhappy at the time. Simon
Re: Building GTK programs without installing systemd-sysv?
On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 01:47:47PM +0200, Philipp Kern wrote:
> On 8/14/2019 12:40 PM, Simon Richter wrote:
> > I have a few users who do test builds of kicad on my server, so I'd like to
> > provide the necessary build dependencies, but since a few days, the
> > dependency chain
> >
> > libwxgtk3.0-gtk3-dev
> > libwxgtk3.0-gtk3-0v5
> > libgtk-3-0
> > libgtk-3-common
> > dconf-gsettings-backend
> > dconf-service
> > dbus-user-session
> > libpam-systemd
> > systemd-sysv
> >
> > stops gtk upgrades from happening because I have pinned systemd-sysv to
> > -100 to avoid repeating the last unfortunate incident where I had to drive
> > to the colo facility.
>
> You want dbus-x11 instead of dbus-user-session then, I think.
For this and related issues, I wonder if it would be better to replace the
virtual package pair of {default-,}dbus-session-bus with a real dummy
package that has:
Depends: dbus-x11 | systemd-sysv, dbus-user-session | dbus-x11
This would pull in dbus-user-session for systemd users, dbus-x11 for any
other init.
(The idea might be bogus -- I haven't slept since Monday morning; anyone up
for beersigning near Frankfurt airport until late evening?)
Meow!
--
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian is one big family. Including that weird uncle
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ and ultra-religious in-laws.
⠈⠳⣄
Re: Building GTK programs without installing systemd-sysv?
On 8/14/2019 12:40 PM, Simon Richter wrote: > I have a few users who do test builds of kicad on my server, so I'd like to > provide the necessary build dependencies, but since a few days, the > dependency chain > > libwxgtk3.0-gtk3-dev > libwxgtk3.0-gtk3-0v5 > libgtk-3-0 > libgtk-3-common > dconf-gsettings-backend > dconf-service > dbus-user-session > libpam-systemd > systemd-sysv > > stops gtk upgrades from happening because I have pinned systemd-sysv to > -100 to avoid repeating the last unfortunate incident where I had to drive > to the colo facility. You want dbus-x11 instead of dbus-user-session then, I think. Kind regards Philipp Kern
Re: Building GTK programs without installing systemd-sysv?
On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 12:40:24PM +0200, Simon Richter wrote: > And in the long run: would it make sense to require that packages that are > build dependencies of something can be installed without starting any > service? why not build in your favorite container? -- cheers, Holger --- holger@(debian|reproducible-builds|layer-acht).org PGP fingerprint: B8BF 5413 7B09 D35C F026 FE9D 091A B856 069A AA1C signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Building GTK programs without installing systemd-sysv?
Hi, I have a few users who do test builds of kicad on my server, so I'd like to provide the necessary build dependencies, but since a few days, the dependency chain libwxgtk3.0-gtk3-dev libwxgtk3.0-gtk3-0v5 libgtk-3-0 libgtk-3-common dconf-gsettings-backend dconf-service dbus-user-session libpam-systemd systemd-sysv stops gtk upgrades from happening because I have pinned systemd-sysv to -100 to avoid repeating the last unfortunate incident where I had to drive to the colo facility. Does anyone with more insight into which of these dependencies are actually hard requirements have a suggestion if we could demote one of them to a Recommends? And in the long run: would it make sense to require that packages that are build dependencies of something can be installed without starting any service? Simon
