On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 04:41:35AM +0200, Ulrich Dangel wrote:
On 08/08/12 04:11, Marco d'Itri wrote:
Fedora did it a few months ago, so probably we should do it as well to
minimize the pain.
As far as I know (based on
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=458176 /
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 12:40:42PM +0100, Roger Leigh wrote:
Warning the user that they are using an obsolete tool is IMO entirely
justified, particularly when there is a much better and more capable
replacement.
And there's plenty of precedent:
$ ffmpeg
ffmpeg version
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 10:22:03AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
Hi,
I haven't followed if they're actually doing any work.
I've been on the mailing list, and so far it's mostly been crickets. The
person who was driving the effort has been busy with other LSB work.
Well there was a healthy
On 08/09/2012 11:43 PM, Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez wrote:
As of DebianSqueeze, if you ask for the Desktop task during the
installation, that pulls in sudo with a default configuration that
automatically grants sudo-ing rights to any member of the sudo group.
Depending on what user accounts you
On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 08:54:24AM +0200, Alberto Fuentes wrote:
For the record and at least up to squeeze, you do have a sudo group
but you are *not* added to that group.
If you are using an empty root password during installation, you do get sudo
rights.
Kind regards
Philipp Kern
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 01:53:24PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
The FHS and the guarantees it provides about what users can
expect from their system is still important. If Debian thinks we need to
diverge from the FHS on something as major as the existence of /sbin, that's
a conversation we
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 07:44:25PM +0200, Vincent Bernat wrote:
❦ 8 août 2012 12:21 CEST, David Given david.gi...@gmail.com :
ifconfig (before this discussion I'd never even *heard* of ip)
All what is inside net-tools package is old and hardly maintained.
arp can be replaced by ip
On 08/08/12 12:11, Thomas Goirand wrote:
On 08/08/2012 10:32 AM, Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez wrote:
I think this is a great idea :)
You can't imagine how much I blame Debian each time I have to type the
full path /sbin/ifconfig as a non-root user on virtual servers to just
know the IP address
On Thu, 9 Aug 2012 08:16:46 +, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
[...]
While I'm in rant mode, note that there's no programmable bash
completion for the subcommands of ip. I wasn't aware of ip neigh.
For a brief shell size war interlude, note that there is zsh completion
for the subcommands of ip.
--
On Thu, 2012-08-09 at 12:14, Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez wrote:
On 08/08/12 12:11, Thomas Goirand wrote:
On 08/08/2012 10:32 AM, Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez wrote:
[...]
on any *nix. Furthermore the output formatting of ifconfig is more user
friendly than the one of ip.
It depends of that who
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 09:58:51PM +0200, Philipp Kern wrote:
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 07:54:59PM +0200, Andrew Shadura wrote:
On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 19:44:25 +0200
Vincent Bernat ber...@debian.org wrote:
arp can be replaced by ip neigh, ifconfig by ip addr or ip
link, route by ip route,
On 08/09/2012 06:14 PM, Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez wrote:
I am aware of the shortcomings of ifconfig. However it is still a nice
and valid tool to just show the ip address the DHCP server assigned to a
machine (AFAIK DHCP servers only assign one IP address per interface)
With all the due
On 09/08/12 04:05 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
When we are talking about IPv4, then it's probably right to tell that having
multiple IPs on a single interface isn't a very common setup. But for IPv6,
that's another story! It's very common to setup more than one IP per iface
with IPv6. And yes, we
On 09/08/12 22:05, Thomas Goirand wrote:
What you are proposing here is a hack based on dangerous assumptions.
Why you say this is a dangerous assumption?
I am not proposing adding this to already installed machines via
upgrades, but to add this feature to d-i, so it automatically adds sbin
The 'ip' command is in /bin/ip and always available in PATH. It is
the currently recommended swiss-army chainsaw network tool. Give it a
try.
$ ip addr show
Or:
$ ip addr show eth0
And of course you can add the sbins to your PATH in .profile so that
you have what you want
Quoting Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org):
Sure, certainly true. But, assuming that we have a consensus that the
distinction no longer matters and just causes extra work (something that
I'm inclined to agree with but that I don't think we can assume we've
decided on yet), I hate to see us doing
❦ 8 août 2012 09:02 CEST, Christian PERRIER bubu...@debian.org :
I'm probably a bit old school here, but I think that the distinction
between bin and sbin still makes sense. Maybe some binaries are
misplaced (for instance, if ifconfig makes sense to be used as normal
user, then it should be
Hi,
Moving ifconfig to /bin would break a lot of things calling
`/sbin/ifconfig`.
there could be a link for compatiblity
Kind Regards,
Michael
signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 09:02:13AM +0200, Christian PERRIER wrote:
Isn't there something called FHS and which would be the thing to
change first? Or aren't we sticking to the FHS anyway or just don't
care?
If we keep /sbin as a symlink to /bin, and similarly for the other sbin
directories,
On 08/08/2012 03:16 AM, Ulrich Dangel wrote:
Currently the default PATH for Debian does not include /sbin, /usr/sbin, nor
/usr/local/sbin. If an user wants to run a program in either /sbin/ or
/usr/sbin
the full path must be specified.
Or the user just adds those directories to $PATH in
On 08/08/2012 09:43 AM, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
Experienced users should be able to do this easily. And those who don't
knwo what to do with the tools in */sbin/* probably don't want/need them
in $PATH.
I think the topic in here is good defaults for debian/more common case
no if debian/users
On Mittwoch, 8. August 2012, Michael Stummvoll wrote:
what exactly is the actually reason that a default normal user has ip in
his PATH but not ifconfig (also route)?
hysteric raisins.
(ip a convinced me to use ip instead of ifconfig: it's shorter to type.)
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to
On 08/08/2012 10:32 AM, Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez wrote:
I think this is a great idea :)
You can't imagine how much I blame Debian each time I have to type the
full path /sbin/ifconfig as a non-root user on virtual servers to just
know the IP address the DHCP server assigned to the machine.
Hi,
On 08.08.2012 10:32, Holger Levsen wrote:
On Mittwoch, 8. August 2012, Michael Stummvoll wrote:
what exactly is the actually reason that a default normal user has ip in
his PATH but not ifconfig (also route)?
hysteric raisins.
historic, rather. ifconfig and route were around already
On 08/08/2012 04:28 PM, Alberto Fuentes wrote:
On 08/08/2012 09:43 AM, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
Experienced users should be able to do this easily. And those who don't
knwo what to do with the tools in */sbin/* probably don't want/need them
in $PATH.
I think the topic in here is good defaults
Hi,
On 08.08.2012 12:11, Thomas Goirand wrote:
Start using the right tool for the job (I mean: ip addr show),
and stop blaming Debian. Using ifconfig by the way will show
you only part of the information (eg: if there's more than one
IP assign, ifconfig will not show it).
ifconfig eth0
On Aug 08, Arno Töll a...@debian.org wrote:
historic, rather. ifconfig and route were around already when everyone
insisted on the separation of /bin and /sbin. /bin/ip is slightly newer
and supposed to replace ifconfig/route some day entirely.
Just for the records, iproute entirely replaced
On Aug 08, Russ Allbery r...@debian.org wrote:
Sure, certainly true. But, assuming that we have a consensus that the
distinction no longer matters and just causes extra work (something that
I'm inclined to agree with but that I don't think we can assume we've
decided on yet), I hate to see
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 03:16:59AM +0200, Ulrich Dangel wrote:
Currently the default PATH for Debian does not include /sbin, /usr/sbin, nor
/usr/local/sbin. If an user wants to run a program in either /sbin/ or
/usr/sbin
the full path must be specified.
Changing the default PATH for normal
Thomas Goirand wrote:
[...]
Exactly what do you need from sbin as a user?
I use stuff from sbin as user all the time. A quick glance at /sbin
shows these commands that I use on a regular basis:
blkid
fdisk
all the fscks
all the mkfss
hdparm
ifconfig (before this discussion I'd never even
On 08/08/2012 12:14 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
On 08/08/2012 04:28 PM, Alberto Fuentes wrote:
On 08/08/2012 09:43 AM, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
Experienced users should be able to do this easily. And those who don't
knwo what to do with the tools in */sbin/* probably don't want/need them
in $PATH.
David Given david.gi...@gmail.com writes:
Thomas Goirand wrote:
[...]
Exactly what do you need from sbin as a user?
I use stuff from sbin as user all the time. A quick glance at /sbin
shows these commands that I use on a regular basis:
blkid
fdisk
all the fscks
all the mkfss
hdparm
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 12:22:50PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
On Aug 08, Arno Töll a...@debian.org wrote:
historic, rather. ifconfig and route were around already when everyone
insisted on the separation of /bin and /sbin. /bin/ip is slightly newer
and supposed to replace ifconfig/route
On 08/08/2012 06:21 PM, David Given wrote:
ifconfig (before this discussion I'd never even *heard* of ip)
This kind of remark make be say that probably, it'd be
nice to have ifconfig display a warning as this one:
ifconfig is deprecated, please use ip instead
Thomas
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To UNSUBSCRIBE,
Hello,
On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 19:26:27 +0800
Thomas Goirand z...@debian.org wrote:
This kind of remark make be say that probably, it'd be
nice to have ifconfig display a warning as this one:
ifconfig is deprecated, please use ip instead
It'd be terrible. Please don't even think of it, okay?
On 08/08/2012 12:59 PM, Gergely Nagy wrote:
But, you know what those commands do, and I think we can agree, that
most - if not all - of them are quite close to being tools for the
admin, even if they don't necessarily require root. A 'regular' user on
a multi-user system will not likely need any
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 01:30:54PM +0200, Andrew Shadura wrote:
On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 19:26:27 +0800
Thomas Goirand z...@debian.org wrote:
This kind of remark make be say that probably, it'd be
nice to have ifconfig display a warning as this one:
ifconfig is deprecated, please use ip
Russ Allbery dixit:
I don't see any point in doing this as opposed to just moving everything
from sbin into bin and making sbin a symlink to bin.
Alone the pain to do so (and the complaints from traditionalists)
should be enough to not do that.
There’s also the “if I want to have a look at what
Hello!
Andrew Shadura has written on Wednesday, 8 August, at 13:30:
On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 19:26:27 +0800
Thomas Goirand z...@debian.org wrote:
This kind of remark make be say that probably, it'd be
nice to have ifconfig display a warning as this one:
ifconfig is deprecated, please use ip
On 08/08/2012 08:07 PM, Andrej N. Gritsenko wrote:
And BTW, ip command is harder to use and it rather should be in the
category 'admin tool' than in the 'user tool'.
That's the 2nd time we have someone writing this in this thread.
However, ip is user accessible, while ifconfig isn't. So
On 08/08/2012 07:16 PM, Adam Borowski wrote:
121 packages, too many to even think about getting rid of ifconfig in the
short term...
I agree. However, proposing to put ifconfig in a user accessible way,
when it is in fact the wrong tool, is going backward, not forward.
Thomas
--
To
On 2012-08-08 13:38:36 +0200, Alberto Fuentes wrote:
[extra non usuful comments]
Those commands without root permissions are not dangerous. ifconfig seems
the most obvious that a non expert would want to run. ipconfig/ifconfig eth0
are easy to run/remember.
ip addr show eth0 is not. ip has
On Wed, 2012-08-08 at 12:22 +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
On Aug 08, Arno Töll a...@debian.org wrote:
historic, rather. ifconfig and route were around already when everyone
insisted on the separation of /bin and /sbin. /bin/ip is slightly newer
and supposed to replace ifconfig/route some day
On 08/08/12 12:36, Adam Borowski wrote:
Could you please tell me a single benefit from such a change? All I see are
downsides. It would degrade tab completion and pollute the namespace.
Access to programs without the need to specify the full path. Not all programs
in
the sbin directories
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 03:20:11PM +0200, Ulrich Dangel wrote:
Not just ifconfig, there is also route, iwconfig, blkid etc. And moving them
to other directories and add symlinks from sbin/$PROG to bin/$PROG is error
prone.
Normal users do not need to know or care about these tools. Only
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 10:32:30AM +0200, Holger Levsen wrote:
On Mittwoch, 8. August 2012, Michael Stummvoll wrote:
what exactly is the actually reason that a default normal user has ip in
his PATH but not ifconfig (also route)?
hysteric raisins.
Funny expression :-)
(ip a convinced
On 2012-08-08 14:38:44 +0100, Roger Leigh wrote:
Normal users do not need to know or care about these tools.
For some of them, they do. Normal users don't need most programs
installed in /usr/bin, so let's split this directory? :)
Only admins use them, or tools that set things up on behalf of
On 08/08/2012 09:11 PM, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
And ip is not standard (not present on every Linux systems), whereas
I don't know any system without ifconfig.
Then, what do you use to list multiple IPs on a single interface?
ifconfig simply doesn't support it.
IMHO, if there's distros with
On 08/08/2012 09:20 PM, Ulrich Dangel wrote:
Not all programs in
the sbin directories require root privileges.
Then they have nothing to do in sbin. I'm serious:
*please file a bug* !!! :)
It is about providing good defaults for users.
Agreed. Which is why you should file a bug so
On 08/08/12 15:38, Roger Leigh wrote:
The number of times I've wished e.g. blkid was in my path is... zero.
What about iwconfig, ifconfig, route, modinfo, iw, fsck, mkfs.*, fsck, … It is
not
just about one tool or
There are for examples two symlinks for lsmod to /bin/kmod (/sbin/lsmod and
On 2012-08-08 22:01:37 +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
On 08/08/2012 09:11 PM, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
And ip is not standard (not present on every Linux systems), whereas
I don't know any system without ifconfig.
Then, what do you use to list multiple IPs on a single interface?
ifconfig
Hi,
On 08.08.2012 16:01, Thomas Goirand wrote:
IMHO, if there's distros with ifconfig but not ip, then such distro
doesn't deserve much attention. The standard *is* ip, it's a much
more powerful tool that does all you need (you can't say the same
thing with ifconfig).
If you do not use ip,
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 10:09:27PM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
On 08/08/2012 09:20 PM, Ulrich Dangel wrote:
Not all programs in
the sbin directories require root privileges.
Then they have nothing to do in sbin. I'm serious:
*please file a bug* !!! :)
I think you're conflating
Hello,
On Wed, 8 Aug 2012 12:40:42 +0100
Roger Leigh rle...@codelibre.net wrote:
As a distribution we have to decide on a default, and that is ip.
We took the effort to remove all use of ifconfig from ifupdown and
other related tools for wheezy precisely to make it removable and
optional, so
Hello!
Thomas Goirand has written on Wednesday, 8 August, at 22:01:
On 08/08/2012 09:11 PM, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
And ip is not standard (not present on every Linux systems), whereas
I don't know any system without ifconfig.
Then, what do you use to list multiple IPs on a single
ifconfig eth0 192.168.0.1 up
ifconfig eth0:0 192.168.0.2 up
ifconfig
It does not list addresses you added with ip without adding a
sub-interface, however. With respect to visibility, one might wonder
if doing that that is a good idea after all.
There are serval ways:
- Some users prefer
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 04:26:54PM +0200, Arno Töll wrote:
Hi,
On 08.08.2012 16:01, Thomas Goirand wrote:
IMHO, if there's distros with ifconfig but not ip, then such distro
doesn't deserve much attention. The standard *is* ip, it's a much
more powerful tool that does all you need (you
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 05:56:57PM +0300, Andrej N. Gritsenko wrote:
Hello!
Thomas Goirand has written on Wednesday, 8 August, at 22:01:
On 08/08/2012 09:11 PM, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
And ip is not standard (not present on every Linux systems), whereas
I don't know any system without
Lars Wirzenius l...@liw.fi writes:
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 09:02:13AM +0200, Christian PERRIER wrote:
Isn't there something called FHS and which would be the thing to change
first? Or aren't we sticking to the FHS anyway or just don't care?
If we keep /sbin as a symlink to /bin, and
Alberto Fuentes alberto.fuen...@qindel.com writes:
I think the topic in here is good defaults for debian/more common case
no if debian/users are able to handle such changes. :)
I also add sbin to path as one the first steps after installation and i
think is a good thing.
Yes, likewise here.
Hello!
Ben Hutchings has written on Wednesday, 8 August, at 16:24:
On 08/08/2012 09:11 PM, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
IMHO, if there's distros with ifconfig but not ip, then such distro
doesn't deserve much attention. The standard *is* ip, it's a much
more powerful tool that does all you
Thorsten Glaser t...@mirbsd.de writes:
There’s also the “if I want to have a look at what commands on the
system are used for administering, I can just ls /sbin /usr/sbin”
thing.
Have you done this recently?
I seriously doubt anyone is going to read through those 416 programs (on
my system;
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 07:29:58PM +0300, Andrej N. Gritsenko wrote:
Hello!
Ben Hutchings has written on Wednesday, 8 August, at 16:24:
On 08/08/2012 09:11 PM, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
IMHO, if there's distros with ifconfig but not ip, then such distro
doesn't deserve much
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 09:28:03AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
Yes, we could file bugs and go to the work of moving things and leaving
symlinks behind to not break other things, but that's a lot of work. And
it's ongoing work to keep things sorted into the right place. Whereas if
we moved
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 09:25:19AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
Also, FHS development seems to be effectively dead. We're already
carrying a fairly large collection of exceptions. One more wouldn't make
a tremendous difference as long as there's no major user behavior change,
and the symlinks
Lars Wirzenius l...@liw.fi writes:
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 09:25:19AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
Also, FHS development seems to be effectively dead. We're already
carrying a fairly large collection of exceptions. One more wouldn't
make a tremendous difference as long as there's no major
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 12:22:50PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
(Does anybody want to try removing net-tools and see what breaks?)
On my debian systems net-tools are removed, had to recompile openvpn
with ip support and run openswan from experimental without any problems
since 4 months.
Kind
❦ 8 août 2012 09:15 CEST, Michael Stummvoll mich...@stummi.org :
Moving ifconfig to /bin would break a lot of things calling
`/sbin/ifconfig`.
there could be a link for compatiblity
If we start symlinking, a symlink from /sbin to /bin seems easier. Once
we start a breach, we'll get more
❦ 8 août 2012 09:43 CEST, Bernd Zeimetz be...@bzed.de :
Currently the default PATH for Debian does not include /sbin, /usr/sbin, nor
/usr/local/sbin. If an user wants to run a program in either /sbin/ or
/usr/sbin
the full path must be specified.
Or the user just adds those directories
❦ 8 août 2012 16:56 CEST, Andrej N. Gritsenko and...@rep.kiev.ua :
Then, what do you use to list multiple IPs on a single interface?
ifconfig simply doesn't support it.
In fact, I have multiple IPs on a single interface right now on the
machine where I write this letter. And I never used
❦ 8 août 2012 12:21 CEST, David Given david.gi...@gmail.com :
ifconfig (before this discussion I'd never even *heard* of ip)
All what is inside net-tools package is old and hardly maintained.
arp can be replaced by ip neigh, ifconfig by ip addr or ip link,
route by
ip route, ipmaddr by ip
Hello,
On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 19:44:25 +0200
Vincent Bernat ber...@debian.org wrote:
arp can be replaced by ip neigh, ifconfig by ip addr or ip
link, route by ip route, ipmaddr by ip maddr, mii-tool by
ethtool, netstat by ss, nameif by ip link, iptunnel by
ip tunnel. iproute and ethtool
On 08/08/2012 10:10 PM, Ulrich Dangel wrote:
Many things are trivial but I think it would be best to ship good defaults in
Debian. And have all programs available for tab completion without the need to
specify sudo in front is in my opinion a good default.
There is also a question how to
❦ 8 août 2012 19:54 CEST, Andrew Shadura bugzi...@tut.by :
arp can be replaced by ip neigh, ifconfig by ip addr or ip
link, route by ip route, ipmaddr by ip maddr, mii-tool by
ethtool, netstat by ss, nameif by ip link, iptunnel by
ip tunnel. iproute and ethtool packages are kept in sync
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 07:54:59PM +0200, Andrew Shadura wrote:
Hello,
On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 19:44:25 +0200
Vincent Bernat ber...@debian.org wrote:
arp can be replaced by ip neigh, ifconfig by ip addr or ip
link, route by ip route, ipmaddr by ip maddr, mii-tool by
ethtool, netstat by
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 07:54:59PM +0200, Andrew Shadura wrote:
On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 19:44:25 +0200
Vincent Bernat ber...@debian.org wrote:
arp can be replaced by ip neigh, ifconfig by ip addr or ip
link, route by ip route, ipmaddr by ip maddr, mii-tool by
ethtool, netstat by ss, nameif by
On Wed, 2012-08-08 at 19:08, Harald Jenny wrote:
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 12:22:50PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
(Does anybody want to try removing net-tools and see what breaks?)
On my debian systems net-tools are removed, had to recompile openvpn
with ip support and run openswan from
On Wed, 8 Aug 2012, Andrew Shadura wrote:
On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 19:44:25 +0200
Vincent Bernat ber...@debian.org wrote:
arp can be replaced by ip neigh, ifconfig by ip addr or ip
link, route by ip route, ipmaddr by ip maddr, mii-tool by
ethtool, netstat by ss, nameif by ip link, iptunnel by
ip
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 10:08:24PM +0200, Milan P. Stanic wrote:
On Wed, 2012-08-08 at 19:08, Harald Jenny wrote:
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 12:22:50PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
(Does anybody want to try removing net-tools and see what breaks?)
On my debian systems net-tools are removed, had
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 10:22:03AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
Lars Wirzenius l...@liw.fi writes:
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 09:25:19AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
Also, FHS development seems to be effectively dead. We're already
carrying a fairly large collection of exceptions. One more
On 2012-08-08 22:09:27 +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
What would be the point, for example, to have these
accessible to the user:
- depmod/insmod/etc.
- swapon/swapoff
- agetty
- init
- etc.
One (perhaps minor) point would be to get basic documentation, e.g.
depmod --help
There is no
On Wed, 2012-08-08 at 22:18, Harald Jenny wrote:
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 10:08:24PM +0200, Milan P. Stanic wrote:
On Wed, 2012-08-08 at 19:08, Harald Jenny wrote:
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 12:22:50PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
(Does anybody want to try removing net-tools and see what
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 05:48:35PM +0100, Roger Leigh wrote:
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 09:28:03AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
Yes, we could file bugs and go to the work of moving things and leaving
symlinks behind to not break other things, but that's a lot of work. And
it's ongoing work to
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 01:53:24PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 10:22:03AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
Lars Wirzenius l...@liw.fi writes:
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 09:25:19AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
Also, FHS development seems to be effectively dead. We're
On 08/08/12 12:30, Thomas Goirand wrote:
On 08/08/2012 06:21 PM, David Given wrote:
ifconfig (before this discussion I'd never even *heard* of ip)
This kind of remark make be say that probably, it'd be
nice to have ifconfig display a warning as this one:
ifconfig is deprecated, please
Le Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 09:28:03AM -0700, Russ Allbery a écrit :
Yes, we could file bugs and go to the work of moving things and leaving
symlinks behind to not break other things, but that's a lot of work. And
it's ongoing work to keep things sorted into the right place. Whereas if
we
Currently the default PATH for Debian does not include /sbin, /usr/sbin, nor
/usr/local/sbin. If an user wants to run a program in either /sbin/ or /usr/sbin
the full path must be specified.
Some programs don't necessarily need root privileges like blkid, iwconfig,
ifconfig, service etc. and can
On 2012-08-08 03:16:59 +0200 (+0200), Ulrich Dangel wrote:
[...]
To run a program as root with sudo the user must specify the
correct path, e.g. sudo /usr/sbin/visudo instead of just sudo
visudo or su -c visudo.
[...]
Are you certain? For me, 'ifconfig' as a normal user returns
command not
On 08/08/12 03:27, The Fungi wrote:
Are you certain? For me, 'ifconfig' as a normal user returns
command not found but 'sudo ifconfig' works just fine...
I was based on my experiments[1]. But I discovered that my
/etc/sudoers didn't contain following config line:
Defaults secure_path
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 03:48:48AM +0200, Ulrich Dangel wrote:
So ignore the sudo part as it should be no problem. The bash completion even
changes PATH to contain the sbin directories for sudo but zsh seems to honor
PATH
and doesn't extend to check for programs.
Perhaps you have changed
On 08/08/12 03:54, Clint Adams wrote:
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 03:48:48AM +0200, Ulrich Dangel wrote:
So ignore the sudo part as it should be no problem. The bash completion even
changes PATH to contain the sbin directories for sudo but zsh seems to honor
PATH
and doesn't extend to check for
On Aug 08, Ulrich Dangel u...@spamt.net wrote:
Changing the default PATH for normal users to include /sbin, /usr/sbin as
well as
/usr/local/sbin would be a great thing for simplifying command line usage for
normal users.
Fedora did it a few months ago, so probably we should do it as well to
Ulrich Dangel u...@spamt.net writes:
Currently the default PATH for Debian does not include /sbin, /usr/sbin,
nor /usr/local/sbin. If an user wants to run a program in either /sbin/
or /usr/sbin the full path must be specified.
I don't see any point in doing this as opposed to just moving
On 08/08/12 03:16, Ulrich Dangel wrote:
Currently the default PATH for Debian does not include /sbin, /usr/sbin, nor
/usr/local/sbin. If an user wants to run a program in either /sbin/ or
/usr/sbin
the full path must be specified.
Some programs don't necessarily need root privileges like
On 08/08/12 04:11, Marco d'Itri wrote:
Changing the default PATH for normal users to include /sbin, /usr/sbin as
well as
/usr/local/sbin would be a great thing for simplifying command line usage for
normal users.
Fedora did it a few months ago, so probably we should do it as well to
On 08/08/12 04:15, Russ Allbery wrote:
Currently the default PATH for Debian does not include /sbin, /usr/sbin,
nor /usr/local/sbin. If an user wants to run a program in either /sbin/
or /usr/sbin the full path must be specified.
I don't see any point in doing this as opposed to just moving
Ulrich Dangel u...@spamt.net writes:
A similar solution was discussed some time ago by merging all the /bin
and /sbin directories together (based on the UsrMove from Fedora) but
the discussion wasn't really productive iirc.
Wasn't that discussion about merging /bin and /usr/bin? Or did we
Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez wrote:
You can't imagine how much I blame Debian each time I have to type the
full path /sbin/ifconfig as a non-root user on virtual servers to just
know the IP address the DHCP server assigned to the machine.
The 'ip' command is in /bin/ip and always available in
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