Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-16 Thread Benjamin Seidenberg
Joey Hess wrote: Bill Allombert wrote: Although sarge's aptitude did.. I don't know, there were no ways to upgrade to sarge's aptitude. The bug log contains a log of astronut doing the upgrade with sarge's aptitude.. I think the bigger problem is not whether it's possible

Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-13 Thread Josselin Mouette
Le jeudi 12 janvier 2006 à 21:12 +0400, Stepan Golosunov a écrit : Looking at them, I fail to see why debconf-i18n has to depend on debconf. Because /usr/share/doc/debconf-i18n is a symlink? Then this is something that can easily be fixed. Not as easily as with the classical foo - foo-data

Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-13 Thread Dominique Dumont
Adrian von Bidder [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From a graph algorithm point of view, if I'm not very mistaken, dependencies being guaranteed to be a directed graph instead of a generic graph should allow some simplifications/efficiency improvements in apt and other tools, too. For the record,

Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-13 Thread Adrian von Bidder
On Friday 13 January 2006 16:53, you wrote: Adrian von Bidder [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From a graph algorithm point of view, if I'm not very mistaken, dependencies being guaranteed to be a directed graph instead of a generic graph should allow some simplifications/efficiency improvements

Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-13 Thread Joey Hess
Bill Allombert wrote: Although sarge's aptitude did.. I don't know, there were no ways to upgrade to sarge's aptitude. The bug log contains a log of astronut doing the upgrade with sarge's aptitude.. -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature

Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-13 Thread Joey Hess
Henning Glawe wrote: To illustrate the scenario: - Package A depends on package B, which in turn depends on A 0) User calls 'apt-get install long-list-of-packages1 A B long-list-of-packages2': 1) apt splits the whole list into smaller parts after sorting by dependency where, in

Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-13 Thread Bill Allombert
On Fri, Jan 13, 2006 at 03:57:57PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote: Bill Allombert wrote: Although sarge's aptitude did.. I don't know, there were no ways to upgrade to sarge's aptitude. The bug log contains a log of astronut doing the upgrade with sarge's aptitude.. Yes, but only after

Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-12 Thread Tollef Fog Heen
* Joe Smith | Joey Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message | news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Joey Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] | debconf | debconf-english | debconf-i18n | | These are all necessary, and debconf is an essential package which is | not subject to the circular dependency postinst

Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-12 Thread Josselin Mouette
Le jeudi 12 janvier 2006 à 01:49 +0100, Jeroen van Wolffelaar a écrit : At the very least, I think they should be treated like pre-depends, with a request on this list being mandatory before adding a circular dependency. Until now, all circular dependencies cases I have met were fixable.

Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-12 Thread Josselin Mouette
Le lundi 09 janvier 2006 à 22:15 -0500, Joey Hess a écrit : Bill Allombert wrote: Here the lists of packages involved in circular dependencies listed by maintainers. Joey Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] debconf debconf-english debconf-i18n These are all necessary, and debconf

Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-12 Thread Henning Glawe
On Thu, Jan 12, 2006 at 09:01:58AM +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: | These are all necessary, and debconf is an essential package which is | not subject to the circular dependency postinst ordering problems afaik. | | Well, I'm not sure if that is an excuse for violating policy. Essential:

Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-12 Thread Bill Allombert
On Thu, Jan 12, 2006 at 09:26:26AM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote: Le jeudi 12 janvier 2006 ? 01:49 +0100, Jeroen van Wolffelaar a ?crit : At the very least, I think they should be treated like pre-depends, with a request on this list being mandatory before adding a circular dependency.

Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-12 Thread Stepan Golosunov
On Thu, Jan 12, 2006 at 09:30:56AM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote: Le lundi 09 janvier 2006 à 22:15 -0500, Joey Hess a écrit : Bill Allombert wrote: Here the lists of packages involved in circular dependencies listed by maintainers. Joey Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] debconf

Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-12 Thread Robert Lemmen
On Thu, Jan 12, 2006 at 09:12:27PM +0400, Stepan Golosunov wrote: Looking at them, I fail to see why debconf-i18n has to depend on debconf. Because /usr/share/doc/debconf-i18n is a symlink? perhaps the link should be the other way round. for example the most common package split would be

Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-12 Thread Bill Allombert
On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 09:34:27PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote: I cannot point you exactly why _this_ circular dependency is going to be a problem, no. However I can point you to bug #310490 which show a woody system that could not be upgraded to sarge without removing most of KDE. I've

Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-12 Thread Steve Langasek
On Thu, Jan 12, 2006 at 11:49:14AM -0600, Bill Allombert wrote: On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 09:34:27PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote: I cannot point you exactly why _this_ circular dependency is going to be a problem, no. However I can point you to bug #310490 which show a woody system that

Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-12 Thread Bill Allombert
What does aptitude give as the breakdown between unused packages being automatically removed, and packages being removed that you actually requested installed? Well I did not install any packages through aptitude. The numbers of packages below the lines The following packages will be

Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-11 Thread Henning Glawe
On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 10:15:58PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote: These are all necessary, and debconf is an essential package which is not subject to the circular dependency postinst ordering problems afaik. [...] The bug report for these does not give any concrete reasons why a circular dependency

Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-11 Thread Josselin Mouette
Le mercredi 11 janvier 2006 à 10:10 +0100, Henning Glawe a écrit : a) explicitely forbid circular dependencies in policy At the very least, I think they should be treated like pre-depends, with a request on this list being mandatory before adding a circular dependency. Until now, all circular

Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-11 Thread Henning Glawe
On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 11:15:35AM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote: Le mercredi 11 janvier 2006 à 10:10 +0100, Henning Glawe a écrit : a) explicitely forbid circular dependencies in policy At the very least, I think they should be treated like pre-depends, with a request on this list being

Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-11 Thread Adrian von Bidder
On Monday 09 January 2006 19:20, Bill Allombert wrote: Here the lists of packages involved in circular dependencies listed by maintainers. Just wondering why this wasn't mentioned yet: aren't circular dependencies causing more work for RM's, too, because the testing migration script can't

Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-11 Thread Bill Allombert
On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 10:15:58PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote: Bill Allombert wrote: Here the lists of packages involved in circular dependencies listed by maintainers. Joey Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] debconf debconf-english debconf-i18n These are all necessary, and debconf

Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-11 Thread Jeroen van Wolffelaar
On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 11:15:35AM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote: Le mercredi 11 janvier 2006 à 10:10 +0100, Henning Glawe a écrit : a) explicitely forbid circular dependencies in policy At the very least, I think they should be treated like pre-depends, with a request on this list being

Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-11 Thread Joey Hess
Bill Allombert wrote: Is it a request I report one ? I will if you want. Shrug, I can ignore useless bug reports and/or orphan packages when things get too annoying with the best of them. (Hmm, didn't I already do that?) I cannot point you exactly why _this_ circular dependency is going to

Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-10 Thread Joe Smith
Joey Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Joey Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] debconf debconf-english debconf-i18n These are all necessary, and debconf is an essential package which is not subject to the circular dependency postinst ordering problems afaik. Well, I'm

Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-09 Thread Bill Allombert
Hello Debian developers, Here the lists of packages involved in circular dependencies listed by maintainers. This list is also available as http://debian.semistable.com/unstable_developers.txt (update daily, courtesy of Robert Lemmen). I reported around 1/3 to the BTS. I simply hope I won't

Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-09 Thread Andreas Tille
On Mon, 9 Jan 2006, Bill Allombert wrote: Andreas Tille [EMAIL PROTECTED] wordnet wordnet-base A new version of WordNet was uploaded just yesterday to experimental. It also solves this issue but there is something wrong with the dict-wn:

Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-09 Thread Simon Huggins
On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 07:20:46PM +0100, Bill Allombert wrote: Debian Xfce Maintainers [EMAIL PROTECTED] xfce4-mixer xfce4-mixer-alsa xfce4-mixer-oss Can you remind me why circular dependencies are so terrible? These packages install fine and upgraded fine. What did we

Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-09 Thread Lars Wirzenius
ma, 2006-01-09 kello 21:15 +, Simon Huggins kirjoitti: On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 07:20:46PM +0100, Bill Allombert wrote: Debian Xfce Maintainers [EMAIL PROTECTED] xfce4-mixer xfce4-mixer-alsa xfce4-mixer-oss Can you remind me why circular dependencies are so terrible?

Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-09 Thread Henning Glawe
On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 01:17:38AM +0200, Lars Wirzenius wrote: One things, if I've understood things correctly, is that it is not possible to reliably know how they're going to be removed -- dpkg will break the circle in a random place and this may or may not result in the problems occur when

Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-09 Thread Hamish Moffatt
On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 12:43:19AM +0100, Henning Glawe wrote: On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 01:17:38AM +0200, Lars Wirzenius wrote: One things, if I've understood things correctly, is that it is not possible to reliably know how they're going to be removed -- dpkg will break the circle in a

Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-09 Thread Joey Hess
Bill Allombert wrote: Here the lists of packages involved in circular dependencies listed by maintainers. Joey Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] debconf debconf-english debconf-i18n These are all necessary, and debconf is an essential package which is not subject to the circular

Re: Getting rid of circular dependencies, stage 3

2006-01-09 Thread Steve Langasek
On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 11:42:49AM +1100, Hamish Moffatt wrote: On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 12:43:19AM +0100, Henning Glawe wrote: On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 01:17:38AM +0200, Lars Wirzenius wrote: One things, if I've understood things correctly, is that it is not possible to reliably know how