Re: ISO download difficult

On 03/12/2017 23:05, Theodore Ts'o wrote: > Personally, I think prioritizing users who just want to a working > PC/Laptop over the FSF is the right choice, since I belong to the > pragmatic wing of the Open Source movement, but I suspect I'm in the > minority in the Debian community. I really don'

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 07:18:57PM +0100, Adam Borowski wrote: > On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 05:57:21PM +, Dr. Bas Wijnen wrote: > > So we need to decide what we want. I think there probably is consensus > > about: > > > > - We want people with non-free hardware to install Debian if they want to

Re: ISO download difficult

Andrey Rahmatullin writes: > On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 12:16:01PM +0100, Toni Mueller wrote: >> "Whatever". My main point is imho to both make it easier for people to >> run Debian on their computers and educate them at the same time. > My point is you shouldn't educate with lies and half-truths.

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 05:57:21PM +, Dr. Bas Wijnen wrote: > > > they will most likely simply not understand the point, and what makes > > > free hardware so much better. > > > > > massively encourage users to use non-free hardware > > > > > link to a page suggesting free hardware over simi

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 05:57:21PM +, Dr. Bas Wijnen wrote: > So we need to decide what we want. I think there probably is consensus about: > > - We want people with non-free hardware to install Debian if they want to. > - We want people with non-free firmware installed to get updates for it.

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 10:13:52AM +0500, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote: > On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 11:00:38PM +0100, Toni Mueller wrote: > > they will most likely simply not understand the point, and what makes > > free hardware so much better. > > > massively encourage users to use non-free hardware

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 04:56:25PM +0100, Toni Mueller wrote: > > My point is you shouldn't educate with lies and half-truths. > Good point. Then you get to do it the correct way. Deal? That's not how these things work though. -- WBR, wRAR signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 04:22:23PM +0500, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote: > My point is you shouldn't educate with lies and half-truths. Good point. Then you get to do it the correct way. Deal? Cheers, --Toni++

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 12:16:01PM +0100, Toni Mueller wrote: > > > link to a page suggesting free hardware over similar non-free hardware > > > > There is no such thing. There is only non-free hardware without updates > > for its software. > > "Whatever". My main point is imho to both make it ea

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 10:13:52AM +0500, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote: > On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 11:00:38PM +0100, Toni Mueller wrote: > > link to a page suggesting free hardware over similar non-free hardware > > There is no such thing. There is only non-free hardware without updates > for its softw

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

On Sat, Dec 09, 2017 at 10:26:03AM +0100, Marc Haber wrote: I fscking do know what the docs say. They're ambiguous and it didn't work in either interpretation way I could come up with when I was last forced to install Debian on a system in a place where only wireless LAN was available, like a mon

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 11:00:38PM +0100, Toni Mueller wrote: > they will most likely simply not understand the point, and what makes > free hardware so much better. > massively encourage users to use non-free hardware > link to a page suggesting free hardware over similar non-free hardware The

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

Hi, On Fri, Dec 01, 2017 at 02:39:12PM +0100, W. Martin Borgert wrote: > Every time I need a Debian ISO, it takes me minutes to find it. > I didn't even know, that there were an ISO with non-free firmware. > > There should be a beautiful ISO download page, e.g. > https://www.debian.org/download[

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

On Tue, 5 Dec 2017 12:34:52 +0800, Paul Wise wrote: >The docs say to dump firmware files or packages on a USB stick: > >https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch06s04.html.en I fscking do know what the docs say. They're ambiguous and it didn't work in either interpretation way I could come

Re: ISO download difficult

On Tue, 5 Dec 2017 12:22:06 +0100, Thibaut Paumard wrote: >Additionally, the social contract says in its fourth article: Why are we only quoting the Social Contract when it is to be used as a bludgeon to justified measures that are likely to send users to less-free operating systems because they

Re: ISO download difficult

On Wed, Dec 06, 2017 at 03:45:38PM +0800, Paul Wise wrote: > On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:58 PM, Russ Allbery wrote: > > > I think that's probably true, but it also has prerequisites that may not > > be achievable. In other words, it's more user-friendly except when it's > > completely impossible (be

Re: ISO download difficult

On Wed, Dec 06, 2017 at 10:55:20AM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote: I have no opinion about win32-loader since I've never used it and would never use it (I don't even have any family members who would use it or be able to use it), so I'm really unqualified to comment. What you describe sounds great fo

Re: ISO download difficult

Paul Wise writes: > On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:58 PM, Russ Allbery wrote: >> I'm certainly not arguing for removing this as an option. I am arguing >> for challenging ourselves to do better than that for as many cases as >> we can, because that's not a fun experience. Even those of us who >> thor

Re: ISO download difficult

Russ, thanks, convinced. On 06.12.2017 00:15, Russ Allbery wrote: > It's not quite that simple. Once it's included in the default > sources.list, those packages show up in apt-cache search and other tools, > or in aptitude browsing. Then, when looking for a package to solve a > particular proble

Re: ISO download difficult

On Wed, Dec 06, 2017 at 12:04:21PM +0800, Paul Wise wrote: On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 11:52 AM, Michael Stone wrote: you want debian to be uninstallable on some hardware without a copy of windows? that doesn't seem like a step forward or even a desirable goal. Of course not, that would be a ridic

Re: ISO download difficult

thib...@debian.org > >Having the two download links side by side on the front page would >already be a major improvement, but it would still be very confusing for >our users. That's why I would prefer to put the "beware of the leopard" >sign inside the install medium, and provide only one medium

Re: ISO download difficult

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:58 PM, Russ Allbery wrote: > I think that's probably true, but it also has prerequisites that may not > be achievable. In other words, it's more user-friendly except when it's > completely impossible (because the existing system doesn't boot, for > instance). Other OS in

Re: ISO download difficult

Paul Wise writes: > On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Russ Allbery wrote: >> I'm certainly fine to put work into this for those who want to use it, >> but I never boot any existing OS before installing Debian, and I'm sure >> I'm not alone. It's extremely useful to be able to install Debian on >>

Re: ISO download difficult

On Tue, 2017-12-05 at 22:50 -0500, Michael Stone wrote: > On Tue, Dec 05, 2017 at 05:08:26PM -0700, Sean Whitton wrote: > > Hello, > > > > On Tue, Dec 05 2017, Adam Borowski wrote: > > > > > Thus: I'd say we should prominently offer two downloads, one with a > > > paragraph of insults. > > > > U

Re: ISO download difficult

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Russ Allbery wrote: > I'm certainly fine to put work into this for those who want to use it, but > I never boot any existing OS before installing Debian, and I'm sure I'm > not alone. It's extremely useful to be able to install Debian on bare > metal (or a newly-re

Re: ISO download difficult

On Wed, Dec 06, 2017 at 11:55:04AM +0800, Paul Wise wrote: > Some of the ones that can do have free drivers in mesa: Tegra, VC4/5, > Vivante, Adreno. > > Only Mali and PowerVR are missing. Except that, unlike x86, display and 3D acceleration tend to be separate chips (or rather, parts of the same

Re: ISO download difficult

Paul Wise writes: > Of course not, that would be a ridiculous suggestion. > I would wager that most devices have another OS installed before > installing Debian. I propose that the process of installing Debian could > be made easier if the Debian install process started with an app on that > OS

Re: ISO download difficult

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 11:52 AM, Michael Stone wrote: > you want debian to be uninstallable on some hardware without a copy of > windows? that doesn't seem like a step forward or even a desirable goal. Of course not, that would be a ridiculous suggestion. I would wager that most devices have ano

Re: ISO download difficult

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Michael Stone wrote: > Since the majority of non-x86 systems available today can't even display a > modern graphical desktop without a non-free blob, that seems like a safe > bet. The majority of non-x86 systems available today can't even install Debian at all due

Re: ISO download difficult

On Wed, Dec 06, 2017 at 11:02:09AM +0800, Paul Wise wrote: non-redistributable entirely. By enhancing win32-loader (and creating similar tools for distros/Android/macOS) and promoting that as the primary install mechanism for Debian, we can detect the firmware requirements of the current system a

Re: ISO download difficult

On Tue, Dec 05, 2017 at 05:08:26PM -0700, Sean Whitton wrote: Hello, On Tue, Dec 05 2017, Adam Borowski wrote: Thus: I'd say we should prominently offer two downloads, one with a paragraph of insults. Uncontroversial suggestion: List the fully free ISO first, have it coloured green, blue et

Re: ISO download difficult

On Wed, Dec 06, 2017 at 12:00:12AM +0100, Guus Sliepen wrote: I have no illusions that a competitor to x86 will magically be more free. Since the majority of non-x86 systems available today can't even display a modern graphical desktop without a non-free blob, that seems like a safe bet. Mi

Re: ISO download difficult

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 7:00 AM, Guus Sliepen wrote: > In my eyes, that is just moving the choice to an earlier point in time > when the user might not have enough information to make the decision, > for example because of brand new hardware. But, having two installers > side by side is a very good

Re: ISO download difficult

On 2017-12-06 00:00:12 +0100 (+0100), Guus Sliepen wrote: [...] > Just say that non-free firmware is provided as-is and does not > allow modifications to fix bugs or add functionality, in contrast > with the vast majority of the software in Debian, which does > guarantee those properties. [...] Ho

Re: ISO download difficult

Hello, On Tue, Dec 05 2017, Adam Borowski wrote: > Thus: I'd say we should prominently offer two downloads, one with a > paragraph of insults. Uncontroversial suggestion: List the fully free ISO first, have it coloured green, blue etc., and the ISO with non-free firmware second, coloured red, y

Re: ISO download difficult

Hello Thibaut, On Tue, Dec 05 2017, Thibaut Paumard wrote: > I also believe this should be less controversial. I don't see any > problem with shipping non-free firmware on our main installation media > as long as they are redistributable, because I don't consider them > part of the OS. The user h

Re: ISO download difficult

Alf Gaida writes: > I see this a little bit different - hell, no! - non-free is non-free and > the pure existence of a line > http://ftp.debian.org/debian $distribution main contrib non-free > will not pollute a system with not wanted non-free packages. Afaik it > needs a > apt install $list_o

Re: ISO download difficult

On Tue, Dec 05, 2017 at 05:44:57PM +0100, Adam Borowski wrote: > > > 1- putting the non-free firmware on all our images, > > > 2- let the installer check whether they are needed, > > > 3- if yes, let the user decide: > > > > I agree with this. While I also believe non-free firmware should n

Re: ISO download difficult

On 05.12.2017 10:33, Jonas Meurer wrote: > 3. We should consider the a firmware subsection to non-free in our >repositories. This would allow users to use non-free firmware while >not adding sources for other non-free software on their systems. > > Cheers > jonas I see this a little bit d

Re: ISO download difficult

On Tue, Dec 05, 2017 at 04:50:59PM +0100, Guus Sliepen wrote: > On Mon, Dec 04, 2017 at 03:57:11PM +0100, Thibaut Paumard wrote: > > > I vote for: > > 1- putting the non-free firmware on all our images, > > 2- let the installer check whether they are needed, > > 3- if yes, let the user decid

Re: ISO download difficult

On Mon, Dec 04, 2017 at 03:57:11PM +0100, Thibaut Paumard wrote: > I vote for: > 1- putting the non-free firmware on all our images, > 2- let the installer check whether they are needed, > 3- if yes, let the user decide: I agree with this. While I also believe non-free firmware should not b

Re: ISO download difficult

On Tue, Dec 05, 2017 at 08:04:47AM +0100, Jonas Meurer wrote: Am 05.12.2017 um 05:34 schrieb Paul Wise: On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 12:34 AM, Jonathan Dowland wrote: Yes, I've never managed to get d-i to find firmware I've put on a USB myself, and always resorted to this approach. I never got aroun

Re: ISO download difficult

Dear Jonas, Le 05/12/2017 à 10:39, Jonas Meurer a écrit : On Mon, Dec 04 2017, Thibaut Paumard wrote: I vote for:     1- putting the non-free firmware on all our images, This seems more controversial than it needs to be, and misses an opportunity for us to express our values. [...] I also

Re: ISO download difficult

El 05/12/17 a las 10:19, Thibaut Paumard escribió: > Dear Sean, > > Le 04/12/2017 à 21:47, Sean Whitton a écrit : > > Hello, > > > > On Mon, Dec 04 2017, Thibaut Paumard wrote: > > > > > I vote for: > > > 1- putting the non-free firmware on all our images, > > > > This seems more controvers

Re: ISO download difficult

On 2017-12-05 10:33, Jonas Meurer wrote: > 2. Apart from that, we should improve support and documentation for >loading non-free firmware from an external medium in the free >installer. The combination of the free installer plus nonfree firmware on a USB memory is not so bad. The problem i

Re: ISO download difficult

Am 05.12.2017 um 10:19 schrieb Thibaut Paumard: > Dear Sean, > > Le 04/12/2017 à 21:47, Sean Whitton a écrit : >> Hello, >> >> On Mon, Dec 04 2017, Thibaut Paumard wrote: >> >>> I vote for: >>>     1- putting the non-free firmware on all our images, >> >> This seems more controversial than it need

Re: ISO download difficult

Am 04.12.2017 um 21:47 schrieb Sean Whitton: > Hello, > > On Mon, Dec 04 2017, Thibaut Paumard wrote: > >> I vote for: >>1- putting the non-free firmware on all our images, > > This seems more controversial than it needs to be, and misses an > opportunity for us to express our values. > > W

Re: ISO download difficult

Dear Sean, Le 04/12/2017 à 21:47, Sean Whitton a écrit : Hello, On Mon, Dec 04 2017, Thibaut Paumard wrote: I vote for: 1- putting the non-free firmware on all our images, This seems more controversial than it needs to be, and misses an opportunity for us to express our values. Why are

Re: ISO download difficult

Am 05.12.2017 um 05:34 schrieb Paul Wise: > On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 12:34 AM, Jonathan Dowland wrote: > >> Yes, I've never managed to get d-i to find firmware I've put on a USB >> myself, and always resorted to this approach. I never got around to >> reading the source to figure out where it expect

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 12:34 AM, Jonathan Dowland wrote: > Yes, I've never managed to get d-i to find firmware I've put on a USB > myself, and always resorted to this approach. I never got around to > reading the source to figure out where it expects to look (nor to > improve the docs etc.) The d

Re: ISO download difficult

On 12/04/2017 04:41 PM, eamanu15 . wrote: >>3- if yes, let the user decide: >> >> "Your network card/wifi adapter needs non-free spftware to operate. You >> may choose to keep this install 100% free software, in which case you >> will have no network connection until you plug-in a supported ada

Re: ISO download difficult

Hello, On Mon, Dec 04 2017, Thibaut Paumard wrote: > I vote for: >1- putting the non-free firmware on all our images, This seems more controversial than it needs to be, and misses an opportunity for us to express our values. Why are you against maintaining the fullly free images alongside t

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

On Sun, Dec 03, 2017 at 04:37:24PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote: On Sat, 02 Dec 2017 11:39:56 +, Medical Wei wrote: Actually I am thinking about people with non-free firmware problems to get additional firmware and download them to another USB disk. In this way the user don't need to re-download

Re: ISO download difficult

El lun., 4 de dic. de 2017 a la(s) 12:19, Thibaut Paumard < thib...@debian.org> escribió: > Hi, > > Le 01/12/2017 à 22:14, Luca Capello a écrit : > > > > Like the following? > > > > > > > > Which is 3-click away from the main page: > >

Re: ISO download difficult

Hi, Le 01/12/2017 à 22:14, Luca Capello a écrit : Like the following? Which is 3-click away from the main page: Three clicks away is three clicks too much. We have a nice "download" button on the front page, suggesting that you

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

On Sun, Dec 03, 2017 at 05:05:58PM -0500, Theodore Ts'o wrote: Personally, as a developer, I will say there is one benefit of being so user-unfriendly that the usable ISO is hidden under the beware-of-leopard sign, which is that it serves as a "you have to be this technically aware to install deb

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

On Sat, Dec 02, 2017 at 11:59:08AM +, Sue Spence wrote: > On 2 December 2017 at 11:49, Holger Levsen wrote: > > > On Sat, Dec 02, 2017 at 12:32:29PM +0100, Geert Stappers wrote: > > > URL is https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/ > > cd-including-firmware/ > > > > so who will

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

On Sun, Dec 03, 2017 at 04:37:24PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote: Last time I tried to download the non-free firmware and put it on another USB disk, I ended up in changing to a shell from the installer and unpacking the firmware blobs to the correct place manually because I wasn't able to figure out h

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

On Sat, 02 Dec 2017 11:39:56 +, Medical Wei wrote: >Actually I am thinking about people with non-free firmware problems to get >additional firmware and download them to another USB disk. >In this way the user don't need to re-download an "non-official" ISO to >install Debian. Last time I trie

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

On Sat, Dec 02, 2017 at 10:39:30PM +0100, Luca Capello wrote: > IMHO you should document yourself > *before* trying something, and I am not even considering firmware at > all. Or, if you prefer, you should not assume that everything works out > of the box (in any field, thus not IT-restricted). Th

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

Hi there, On Sat, 02 Dec 2017 13:17:13 +0500, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote: > On Fri, Dec 01, 2017 at 10:14:21PM +0100, Luca Capello wrote: > > > > It would have been best for him to download the ISO with non-free > > > > firmware embedded, do you know how he made the decision to download > > > > the

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

On 2 December 2017 at 11:49, Holger Levsen wrote: > On Sat, Dec 02, 2017 at 12:32:29PM +0100, Geert Stappers wrote: > > URL is https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/ > cd-including-firmware/ > > so who will make nonfree.debian.net and non-free.debian.net > http-redirect to that U

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

On Sat, Dec 02, 2017 at 12:32:29PM +0100, Geert Stappers wrote: > URL is > https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/ so who will make nonfree.debian.net and non-free.debian.net http-redirect to that URL? :) -- cheers, Holger signature.asc Descript

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

On Sat, Dec 02, 2017 at 12:32:29PM +0100, Geert Stappers wrote: > > > http://get.debian.org > > > Might not be beautiful, but it has the needed information, clearly > > > spelt out. > > > > besides that I find that page still too confusing / not simple enough, > > it also lacks information about t

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

Actually I am thinking about people with non-free firmware problems to get additional firmware and download them to another USB disk. In this way the user don't need to re-download an "non-official" ISO to install Debian. But if Policy can allow non-free firmware to go accompany with the ISO it co

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

On Sat, Dec 02, 2017 at 10:49:32AM +, Holger Levsen wrote: > On Fri, Dec 01, 2017 at 12:05:27PM -0600, Gunnar Wolf wrote: > > http://get.debian.org > > Might not be beautiful, but it has the needed information, clearly > > spelt out. > > besides that I find that page still too confusing / not

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

El sáb., 2 de dic. de 2017 a la(s) 05:17, Andrey Rahmatullin < w...@debian.org> escribió: > On Fri, Dec 01, 2017 at 10:14:21PM +0100, Luca Capello wrote: > > > > It would have been best for him to download the ISO with non-free > > > > firmware embedded, do you know how he made the decision to dow

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

On Fri, Dec 01, 2017 at 12:05:27PM -0600, Gunnar Wolf wrote: > http://get.debian.org > Might not be beautiful, but it has the needed information, clearly > spelt out. besides that I find that page still too confusing / not simple enough, it also lacks information about the non-free images. -- c

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

On Fri, Dec 01, 2017 at 10:14:21PM +0100, Luca Capello wrote: > > > It would have been best for him to download the ISO with non-free > > > firmware embedded, do you know how he made the decision to download > > > the ISO without non-free firmware? > > > > Every time I need a Debian ISO, it takes

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

I agree with this mail. It was difficult for me, find the ISO download (especially non-free installer) El vie., 1 de dic. de 2017 a la(s) 18:15, Luca Capello escribió: > Hi there, > > On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 14:39:12 +0100, W. Martin Borgert wrote: > > Quoting Paul Wise : > > > It would have been b

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

Hi there, On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 14:39:12 +0100, W. Martin Borgert wrote: > Quoting Paul Wise : > > It would have been best for him to download the ISO with non-free > > firmware embedded, do you know how he made the decision to download > > the ISO without non-free firmware? > > Every time I need a

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

On Fri, Dec 01, 2017 at 07:08:07PM +0100, W. Martin Borgert wrote: > > > > Of course, the stable amd64 netinst is useful only for VMs. > > > > > > Why? > > It doesn't contain non-free firmware. > > OK, but that's an exaggeration. More often than not I was > able to install Debian without non-free

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

On 1 December 2017 at 14:39, W. Martin Borgert wrote: > Quoting Paul Wise : >> >> It would have been best for him to download the ISO with non-free >> firmware embedded, do you know how he made the decision to download >> the ISO without non-free firmware? > > > Every time I need a Debian ISO, it

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

Quoting Andrey Rahmatullin : On Fri, Dec 01, 2017 at 05:10:37PM +0100, W. Martin Borgert wrote: > Currently the stable amd64 netinst is linked from the front page (top > right corner). It is, indeed. Never saw it before... It's a relatively recent improvement. Well, I hadn't seen it, without

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

W. Martin Borgert dijo [Fri, Dec 01, 2017 at 02:39:12PM +0100]: > Every time I need a Debian ISO, it takes me minutes to find it. > I didn't even know, that there were an ISO with non-free firmware. > > There should be a beautiful ISO download page, e.g. > https://www.debian.org/download[s]/ > wit

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

On Fri, Dec 01, 2017 at 05:10:37PM +0100, W. Martin Borgert wrote: Quoting Andrey Rahmatullin : Of course, the stable amd64 netinst is useful only for VMs. Why? I suspect that this means that this image is useful to install a guest machine in a virtualized environment. Maybe because indeed

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

On Fri, Dec 01, 2017 at 05:10:37PM +0100, W. Martin Borgert wrote: > > Currently the stable amd64 netinst is linked from the front page (top > > right corner). > > It is, indeed. Never saw it before... It's a relatively recent improvement. > > Of course, the stable amd64 netinst is useful only fo

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

Quoting Andrey Rahmatullin : Currently the stable amd64 netinst is linked from the front page (top right corner). It is, indeed. Never saw it before... Of course, the stable amd64 netinst is useful only for VMs. Why?

Re: ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

On Fri, Dec 01, 2017 at 02:39:12PM +0100, W. Martin Borgert wrote: > > It would have been best for him to download the ISO with non-free > > firmware embedded, do you know how he made the decision to download > > the ISO without non-free firmware? > > Every time I need a Debian ISO, it takes me mi

ISO download difficult (was: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint))

Quoting Paul Wise : It would have been best for him to download the ISO with non-free firmware embedded, do you know how he made the decision to download the ISO without non-free firmware? Every time I need a Debian ISO, it takes me minutes to find it. I didn't even know, that there were an ISO