Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Ben Hutchings]

On Tue, 2016-04-26 at 14:40 +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> Quoting Petter Reinholdtsen (2016-04-26 14:05:44)
> > 
> > 
> > A while back, I made a list of popular packages in Ubuntu that were
> > missing in Debian/main.  Just for fun, I created the list again
> > today.
> > It look at all packages with more than 5000 votes in the Ubuntu
> > popularity contest results, and compare the packages to Debian
> > main.
> Interesting.
> 
> Here's the list, stripped of...
> 
>   * libraries
>   * packages ending in -common
>   * kernels available in different version
>   * firmware available under different name
>   * contrib/non-free stuff
>   * english locale data embedded in regular package
[...]

Please map these back to *source* packages and then compare with source
packages in Debian.

Then you would see that, for example, busybox-initramfs is not really
missing from Debian (it's an extra binary built from busybox, while in
Debian the regular busybox binary package provides binaries for the
initramfs).

Ben.

-- 
Ben Hutchings
The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance.
- Robert Coveyou


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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Petter Reinholdtsen]

[Dimitri John Ledkov]
> Hello,

Hi. :)

> Looking at the list none of it makes sense in Debian,

Aha.  Thank you for looking into it.  I was not sure about a few of
them, for example the OpenGL toolkit nux-tools/nux, the Gnome screen
resolution applet extention screen-resolution-extra and the readahead
implementation ureadahead, and hoped for more eyes to check if there
were some gems there.

> and the query is inherently biased.

Sure, that was also the point of the list.  It is supposed to check the
most used packages in Ubuntu, which of course will be among the packages
installed by default.

> This is simply the list of packages installed by default on an Ubuntu
> Desktop default installation.

Not quite.  It would be if I used the installation count instead of the
vote.  I used the vote, to get the packages with programs or files being
used the last week in Ubuntu instead of simply looking at the
installation count.

The last time I made such list, there were several packages that should
be brought into Debian (for example dkms, which was the package
triggering my post this time), but it is good to know that none of the
packages in the list make sense to get into Debian this time.

-- 
Happy hacking,
Petter Reinholdtsen

Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting Petter Reinholdtsen (2016-04-26 14:05:44)
> 
> A while back, I made a list of popular packages in Ubuntu that were
> missing in Debian/main.  Just for fun, I created the list again today.
> It look at all packages with more than 5000 votes in the Ubuntu
> popularity contest results, and compare the packages to Debian main.

Interesting.

Here's the list, stripped of...

  * libraries
  * packages ending in -common
  * kernels available in different version
  * firmware available under different name
  * contrib/non-free stuff
  * english locale data embedded in regular package

  appmenu-gtk appmenu-gtk3 apport busybox-initramfs
  compiz-plugins-default compiz-plugins-main-default
  gconf-service-backend geoclue-ubuntu-geoip gir1.2-unity-5.0
  gnome-icon-theme-full humanity-icon-theme
  indicator-appmenu indicator-datetime indicator-power
  indicator-printers indicator-sound initramfs-tools-bin
  kerneloops-daemon
  liblaunchpad-integration-3.0-1
  libreoffice-style-human
  nux-tools oneconf
  plymouth-label plymouth-theme-ubuntu-logo plymouth-theme-ubuntu-text
  python3-update-manager python-apport python-piston-mini-client
  python-problem-report python-ubuntuone-client
  python-ubuntuone-control-panel python-ubuntuone-storageprotocol
  python-ubuntu-sso-client python-xkit rhythmbox-mozilla
  rhythmbox-ubuntuone screen-resolution-extra session-migration
  signon-ui software-center-aptdaemon-plugins
  system-config-printer-common system-config-printer-gnome
  systemd-services telepathy-indicator
  ubuntu-extras-keyring ubuntu-keyring
  ubuntuone-client ubuntuone-client-gnome ubuntuone-couch
  ubuntuone-installer ubuntu-release-upgrader-core ubuntu-sso-client
  ubuntu-system-service unity unity-greeter unity-lens-applications
  unity-lens-files unity-lens-music unity-lens-video
  unity-scope-musicstores unity-scope-video-remote unity-services
  unity-settings-daemon ureadahead whoopsie wine1.6 wine1.6-i386
  xdiagnose

List could probably be cleaned even more by identifying and listing only 
main package of things tightly related - e.g. for apport, ubuntuone, 
ubuntu-sso, plymouth.


 - Jonas

-- 
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 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private


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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Dimitri John Ledkov]

Hello,

Looking at the list none of it makes sense in Debian, and the query is
inherently biased.

This is simply the list of packages installed by default on an Ubuntu
Desktop default installation.
There are some additions - e.g. nvidia stuff is automatically
installed through ubuntu-drivers, if nvidia graphics are detected and
user chooses to install proprietary drivers.
A bunch of other things are simply different package naming schemes and/or ABI.
Some are third-party packages all togeter (e.g. google-chrome-stable).

No human was involved in choosing to install any of these, apart from
like adobe-flashplugin/google-chrome-stable which are unsuitable for
debian main for obvious reasons.

Regards,

Dimitri.

On 26 April 2016 at 13:05, Petter Reinholdtsen  wrote:
>
> A while back, I made a list of popular packages in Ubuntu that were
> missing in Debian/main.  Just for fun, I created the list again today.
> It look at all packages with more than 5000 votes in the Ubuntu
> popularity contest results, and compare the packages to Debian main.
>
>   adobe-flashplugin appmenu-gtk appmenu-gtk3 apport busybox-initramfs
>   compiz-plugins-default compiz-plugins-main-default firefox-locale-en
>   gconf-service-backend geoclue-ubuntu-geoip gir1.2-unity-5.0
>   gnome-icon-theme-full google-chrome-stable humanity-icon-theme
>   indicator-appmenu indicator-datetime indicator-power
>   indicator-printers indicator-sound initramfs-tools-bin
>   kerneloops-daemon language-selector-common libapt-inst1.4
>   libboost-serialization1.46.1 libcamel-1.2-29 libebook-1.2-12
>   libecal-1.2-10 libedataserver-1.2-15 libevince3-3 libglew1.6
>   libglewmx1.6 libgnome-bluetooth8 libgnome-control-center1 libgrail5
>   libjpeg-turbo8 liblaunchpad-integration-3.0-1
>   liblaunchpad-integration-common libminiupnpc8 libplymouth2
>   libreoffice-style-human librhythmbox-core5 libunity9 libx264-120
>   linux-firmware linux-image-3.13.0-49-generic
>   linux-image-3.13.0-53-generic linux-image-3.13.0-55-generic
>   linux-image-3.13.0-57-generic linux-image-3.13.0-61-generic
>   linux-image-3.13.0-62-generic linux-image-3.13.0-63-generic
>   linux-image-3.13.0-65-generic linux-image-3.13.0-66-generic
>   linux-image-3.13.0-68-generic linux-image-3.13.0-71-generic
>   linux-image-3.13.0-74-generic linux-image-3.13.0-76-generic
>   linux-image-3.13.0-77-generic linux-image-3.13.0-79-generic
>   linux-image-3.13.0-83-generic linux-image-3.13.0-85-generic
>   mysql-client-core-5.5 nux-tools nvidia-common nvidia-settings oneconf
>   plymouth-label plymouth-theme-ubuntu-logo plymouth-theme-ubuntu-text
>   python3-update-manager python-apport python-piston-mini-client
>   python-problem-report python-ubuntuone-client
>   python-ubuntuone-control-panel python-ubuntuone-storageprotocol
>   python-ubuntu-sso-client python-xkit rhythmbox-mozilla
>   rhythmbox-ubuntuone screen-resolution-extra session-migration
>   signon-ui software-center-aptdaemon-plugins
>   system-config-printer-common system-config-printer-gnome
>   systemd-services telepathy-indicator thunderbird-locale-en
>   ubuntu-drivers-common ubuntu-extras-keyring ubuntu-keyring
>   ubuntuone-client ubuntuone-client-gnome ubuntuone-couch
>   ubuntuone-installer ubuntu-release-upgrader-core ubuntu-sso-client
>   ubuntu-system-service unity unity-greeter unity-lens-applications
>   unity-lens-files unity-lens-music unity-lens-video
>   unity-scope-musicstores unity-scope-video-remote unity-services
>   unity-settings-daemon ureadahead whoopsie wine1.6 wine1.6-i386
>   xdiagnose
>
> Perhaps there are some pieces here we should try to get into Debian?
>
> This is the script I used to create the list:
>
> GET http://popcon.ubuntu.com/by_vote.gz | gunzip > ubuntu-by_vote-all
> GET http://popcon.debian.org/main/by_vote.gz | gunzip > debian-by_vote-main
> grep -v '#' ubuntu-by_vote-all | \
> awk '$4 > 5000 {print $2}' | \
> sort > ubuntu-popular
> awk '{print $2}' debian-by_vote-main | sort > debian-main
> comm -23 ubuntu-popular debian-main
>
> I am not currently subscribed to debian-devel@, so please keep me on CC
> if there is a reply I should see. :)
>
> --
> Happy hacking,
> Petter Reinholdtsen
>

-- 
Regards,

Dimitri.

Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Petter Reinholdtsen]

A while back, I made a list of popular packages in Ubuntu that were
missing in Debian/main.  Just for fun, I created the list again today.
It look at all packages with more than 5000 votes in the Ubuntu
popularity contest results, and compare the packages to Debian main.

  adobe-flashplugin appmenu-gtk appmenu-gtk3 apport busybox-initramfs
  compiz-plugins-default compiz-plugins-main-default firefox-locale-en
  gconf-service-backend geoclue-ubuntu-geoip gir1.2-unity-5.0
  gnome-icon-theme-full google-chrome-stable humanity-icon-theme
  indicator-appmenu indicator-datetime indicator-power
  indicator-printers indicator-sound initramfs-tools-bin
  kerneloops-daemon language-selector-common libapt-inst1.4
  libboost-serialization1.46.1 libcamel-1.2-29 libebook-1.2-12
  libecal-1.2-10 libedataserver-1.2-15 libevince3-3 libglew1.6
  libglewmx1.6 libgnome-bluetooth8 libgnome-control-center1 libgrail5
  libjpeg-turbo8 liblaunchpad-integration-3.0-1
  liblaunchpad-integration-common libminiupnpc8 libplymouth2
  libreoffice-style-human librhythmbox-core5 libunity9 libx264-120
  linux-firmware linux-image-3.13.0-49-generic
  linux-image-3.13.0-53-generic linux-image-3.13.0-55-generic
  linux-image-3.13.0-57-generic linux-image-3.13.0-61-generic
  linux-image-3.13.0-62-generic linux-image-3.13.0-63-generic
  linux-image-3.13.0-65-generic linux-image-3.13.0-66-generic
  linux-image-3.13.0-68-generic linux-image-3.13.0-71-generic
  linux-image-3.13.0-74-generic linux-image-3.13.0-76-generic
  linux-image-3.13.0-77-generic linux-image-3.13.0-79-generic
  linux-image-3.13.0-83-generic linux-image-3.13.0-85-generic
  mysql-client-core-5.5 nux-tools nvidia-common nvidia-settings oneconf
  plymouth-label plymouth-theme-ubuntu-logo plymouth-theme-ubuntu-text
  python3-update-manager python-apport python-piston-mini-client
  python-problem-report python-ubuntuone-client
  python-ubuntuone-control-panel python-ubuntuone-storageprotocol
  python-ubuntu-sso-client python-xkit rhythmbox-mozilla
  rhythmbox-ubuntuone screen-resolution-extra session-migration
  signon-ui software-center-aptdaemon-plugins
  system-config-printer-common system-config-printer-gnome
  systemd-services telepathy-indicator thunderbird-locale-en
  ubuntu-drivers-common ubuntu-extras-keyring ubuntu-keyring
  ubuntuone-client ubuntuone-client-gnome ubuntuone-couch
  ubuntuone-installer ubuntu-release-upgrader-core ubuntu-sso-client
  ubuntu-system-service unity unity-greeter unity-lens-applications
  unity-lens-files unity-lens-music unity-lens-video
  unity-scope-musicstores unity-scope-video-remote unity-services
  unity-settings-daemon ureadahead whoopsie wine1.6 wine1.6-i386
  xdiagnose

Perhaps there are some pieces here we should try to get into Debian?

This is the script I used to create the list:

GET http://popcon.ubuntu.com/by_vote.gz | gunzip > ubuntu-by_vote-all
GET http://popcon.debian.org/main/by_vote.gz | gunzip > debian-by_vote-main
grep -v '#' ubuntu-by_vote-all | \
awk '$4 > 5000 {print $2}' | \
sort > ubuntu-popular
awk '{print $2}' debian-by_vote-main | sort > debian-main
comm -23 ubuntu-popular debian-main

I am not currently subscribed to debian-devel@, so please keep me on CC
if there is a reply I should see. :)

-- 
Happy hacking,
Petter Reinholdtsen

Promoting free PDF readers (was Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main)

[Luca Capello]

Hi there!

On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 11:12:55 +0100, Johannes Wiedersich wrote:
 Gunnar Wolf wrote:
 But anyway, and knowing this is not an Ubuntu list... Does anybody
 know why on Earth is Acroread popular? Why isn't a PDF regularly
 handled in a saner way with Evince (or kde-based lookalike) in some
 distributions?

 Zillions of websites promote acroread via links and thumbnails. I've yet
 failed to find a site with a pdf and that 'download envince|kpdf|okular
 for free' button. Don't forget that many people use an inferior OS just
 out of convenience/marketing/whatever.

FYI, the FSFE has started such initiative:

  http://wiki.fsfe.org/Free-PDF-Readers-Campaign

The discussion started in July 2008 on the FSFE discussion mailing list,
but unfortunately the archive is available to subscribers only:

  https://lists.fsfe.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion

Recently, a dedicated mailing list was setup:

  http://lists.fsfe.org/mailman/listinfo/pdfreaders

Thx, bye,
Gismo / Luca


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Re: Why acroread is popular (Was: Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main)

[Josselin Mouette]

Le mardi 02 décembre 2008 à 19:08 +0100, Emilio Pozuelo Monfort a
écrit :
 Since 2.24 (which is in experimental) the evince package doesn't link to
 unneeded dependencies anymore, making the evince-gtk package pointless. So now
 you will be able to install the evince package with the same results.

And if someone motivated enough wants to remove these dependencies, it
shouldn’t be too hard to remove GConf and Gnome-Keyring by putting their
functionality in loadable plugins, since they are only used in small
portions of the code.

Cheers,
-- 
 .''`.
: :' :  We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code.
`. `'   We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to
  `-our own. Resistance is futile.


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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Michelle Konzack]

Am 2008-11-30 20:59:31, schrieb Gunnar Wolf:
 Does anybody
 know why on Earth is Acroread popular? Why isn't a PDF regularly
 handled in a saner way with Evince (or kde-based lookalike) in some
 distributions?

..because I do not use GNOME and  KDE  and  it  does  not  suck  several
100 MByte of useless GNOME and KDE libs!

xpdf which I use regulary has unfortunately not  the  functionality  I
need for printing of my technical documents.  And using console tools to
print out several 10-100 PDFs per day is no way...

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
24V Electronic Engineer
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant


-- 
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Michelle Konzack   Apt. 917  ICQ #328449886
+49/177/935194750, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi
+33/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France   IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com)


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Why acroread is popular (Was: Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main)

[Eugene V. Lyubimkin]

Michelle Konzack wrote:
 ..because I do not use GNOME and  KDE  and  it  does  not  suck  several
 100 MByte of useless GNOME and KDE libs!
'evince-gtk' package pulls much less dependencies, I am using it with XFCE.

-- 
Eugene V. Lyubimkin aka JackYF, JID: jackyf.devel(maildog)gmail.com
Ukrainian C++ Developer, Debian APT contributor



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Re: Why acroread is popular (Was: Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main)

[Sven Arvidsson]

On Tue, 2008-12-02 at 17:15 +0200, Eugene V. Lyubimkin wrote:
 Michelle Konzack wrote:
  ..because I do not use GNOME and  KDE  and  it  does  not  suck  several
  100 MByte of useless GNOME and KDE libs!
 'evince-gtk' package pulls much less dependencies, I am using it with XFCE.

There's also epdfview, described as in the lines of Evince but without
using the GNOME libraries. 

It uses Poppler, but otherwise I have no idea how it compares to Evince.

-- 
Cheers,
Sven Arvidsson
http://www.whiz.se
PGP Key ID 760BDD22


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Re: Why acroread is popular (Was: Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main)

[Emilio Pozuelo Monfort]

Eugene V. Lyubimkin wrote:
 Michelle Konzack wrote:
 ..because I do not use GNOME and  KDE  and  it  does  not  suck  several
 100 MByte of useless GNOME and KDE libs!
 'evince-gtk' package pulls much less dependencies, I am using it with XFCE.

Since 2.24 (which is in experimental) the evince package doesn't link to
unneeded dependencies anymore, making the evince-gtk package pointless. So now
you will be able to install the evince package with the same results.

Emilio


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Re: Why acroread is popular (Was: Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main)

[Yves-Alexis Perez]

On mar, 2008-12-02 at 16:33 +0100, Sven Arvidsson wrote:
 
 There's also epdfview, described as in the lines of Evince but
 without
 using the GNOME libraries. 
 
 It uses Poppler, but otherwise I have no idea how it compares to
 Evince.

It's really nice and light, but not as feature-rich as evince. And it's
not really maintained (upstream) at the moment. If gconf doesn't scare
you, you should stick with evince-gtk, sadly :/

Cheers,
-- 
Yves-Alexis


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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Josselin Mouette]

Le dimanche 30 novembre 2008 à 20:59 -0600, Gunnar Wolf a écrit :
 However, I find it
 quite inferior both in usability and on quality to evince - Even now
 that evince does properly(?) support provisions disallowing copying
 from or printing a PDF.

This “support” is disabled by default.

Cheers,
-- 
 .''`.
: :' :  We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code.
`. `'   We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to
  `-our own. Resistance is futile.


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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Henning Glawe]

On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 08:59:31PM -0600, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
 But anyway, and knowing this is not an Ubuntu list... Does anybody
 know why on Earth is Acroread popular?

Do you know any alternative PDF viewer which can be used to fill out PDF
forms? My employer uses them quite a lot for things like travel expense
reports...

-- 
c u
henning


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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Johannes Wiedersich]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Gunnar Wolf wrote:
 But anyway, and knowing this is not an Ubuntu list... Does anybody
 know why on Earth is Acroread popular? Why isn't a PDF regularly
 handled in a saner way with Evince (or kde-based lookalike) in some
 distributions?

Zillions of websites promote acroread via links and thumbnails. I've yet
failed to find a site with a pdf and that 'download envince|kpdf|okular
for free' button. Don't forget that many people use an inferior OS just
out of convenience/marketing/whatever.

Support for comments, forms and better rendering have also been rather
recent additions of okular et al. At least up to the release of etch,
acroread was just better in many ways.

DRM has been mentioned before. FWIW, the German system of academic
inter-library loan has recently started to ship pdfs with additional DRM
meant to allow only two printouts of the pdf and invalidating the pdf
after 30 days. (The pdf requires a proprietary plugin within acroread,
IMHO has some serious security flaws, e.g. crashing on amd64, but what
could I do? ).

Johannes


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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Michal Čihař]

Hi

Dne Mon, 1 Dec 2008 10:26:51 +
Tzafrir Cohen [EMAIL PROTECTED] napsal(a):

   nvidia-settings
 Maybe this one belongs in contrib?

This one already is in contrib:
http://packages.debian.org/sid/nvidia-settings

-- 
Michal Čihař | http://cihar.com | http://blog.cihar.com


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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Don Armstrong]

On Mon, 01 Dec 2008, Henning Glawe wrote:
 On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 08:59:31PM -0600, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
  But anyway, and knowing this is not an Ubuntu list... Does anybody
  know why on Earth is Acroread popular?
 
 Do you know any alternative PDF viewer which can be used to fill out PDF
 forms? My employer uses them quite a lot for things like travel expense
 reports...

pdftk.

pdftk foo.pdf generate_fdf foo.fdf;
sensible-editor foo.fdf;
pdftk foo.pdf fill_form foo.fdf output filled_foo.pdf;

or

pdf2ps foo.pdf; flpsed foo.ps

You can also do this for non-form pdfs using xournal or similar.


Don Armstrong

-- 
Quite the contrary; they *love* collateral damage. If they can make
you miserable enough, maybe you'll stop using email entirely. Once
enough people do that, then there'll be no legitimate reason left for
anyone to run an SMTP server, and the spam problem will be solved.
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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Tzafrir Cohen]

Hi

On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 04:05:09PM +0100, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
 
 This is how I made the list:
 
   GET http://popcon.ubuntu.com/by_vote.gz | gunzip  ubuntu-by_vote-all
   GET http://popcon.debian.org/main/by_vote.gz | gunzip  debian-by_vote-main
   grep -v '#' ubuntu-by_vote-all |awk '$4  1 {print $2}' | \
 sort  ubuntu-popular
   awk '{print $2}' debian-by_vote-main | sort  debian-main
   comm -23 ubuntu-popular debian-main

To focus the discussion a bit, here is the list after some manual 
processing. Feel free to correct me.

In experimental:
  kdebase-workspace-bin
  kde-window-manager
  libplasma2 

Stuff that will not be in main. It's great stuff for off-topic threads:

Non-free commercial: 
  acroread 
  acroread-escript 
  adobe-flashplugin 
  opera 
  picasa 
  rar 
  skype
  sun-java5-bin 
  sun-java5-jre 
  sun-java6-bin 
  sun-java6-jdk
  sun-java6-jre 
  unrar
  virtualbox
  virtualbox-2.0
(As opposed to virtualbox-ose?)

Non-free patented:
  avidemux 
  dvdrip
  gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse
  gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse 
  lame
  transcode 
  vlc-plugin-pulse 

non-free/contrib:
  gstreamer0.10-pitfdll
  mencoder
  mjpegtools
  nspluginwrapper
  nvidia-173-modaliases
  nvidia-177-kernel-source
  nvidia-177-modaliases
  nvidia-71-modaliases 
  nvidia-96-modaliases
  nvidia-common 
  nvidia-glx 
  nvidia-glx-177 
  nvidia-glx-new
  w32codecs 

Obsolete?: No longer in latest Ubuntu
  displayconfig-gtk 
  hwdb-client-common
  hwdb-client-gnome 
  sessreg 
  volumeid 


Different Packaging:
  bluez 
  busybox-initramfs 
  system-config-printer-common
  system-config-printer-gnome
Ubuntu's split is better here, per Sune's message.
  firefox-2 
  firefox-3.0 
  firefox-3.0-branding
  firefox-3.0-gnome-support 
  iceauth
  language-pack-de 
  language-pack-de-base
  language-pack-en 
  language-pack-en-base 
  language-pack-es
  language-pack-es-base 
  language-pack-fr 
  language-pack-fr-base
  libbluetooth3
  libcamel1.2-14 
  libgnome-desktop-2-7
  libgucharmap7
  libltdl7
(We have different versions of those libraries. But then again, in most 
cases a different library version is a different version of the same 
package, and normally end users don't need the library itself)
  linux-firmware
  linux-headers-2.6.24-21 
  linux-headers-2.6.24-21-generic
  linux-headers-2.6.27-7 
  linux-headers-2.6.27-7-generic
  linux-image-2.6.22-14-generic 
  linux-image-2.6.22-15-generic
  linux-image-2.6.24-16-generic 
  linux-image-2.6.24-19-generic
  linux-image-2.6.24-21-generic 
  linux-image-2.6.27-7-generic
  linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24-19-generic
  linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24-21-generic
  linux-restricted-modules-common
  linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24-19-generic
  linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24-21-generic
  openoffice.org-l10n-common
  openoffice.org-style-human 
  soprano-daemon
  sysvutils
Or rather: really part of upstart
  xdpyinfo 
  xkbutils
  xmodmap 
  xorg-driver-fglrx 
  xrdb 
  xset 
  xsetroot 
  xvinfo

The following strike me at first as a bit Ubuntu-specific. That is not 
to say that that they are not interesting. Please don't flame here but 
point out those interesting packages for Debian.

Ubuntu-specific?:
  hwtest 
  hwtest-gtk 
  landscape-common 
  kubuntu-artwork-usplash
  language-selector
  language-selector-common
  launchpad-integration
  liblaunchpad-integration1
  onboard 
  powermanagement-interface
  python-launchpad-bugs
  python-launchpad-integration
  restricted-manager 
  restricted-manager-core
  ufw 
  usb-creator 
  usplash-theme-ubuntu 

Others:
  apparmor 
  apparmor-utils
Any work on that?
  apport
  apturl 
Debian has aptlinex instead?
  binutils-static 
What's the point of that one?
  bluez-gstreamer
  compiz-wrapper
  dkms 
  emerald 
  example-content
  gdebi-kde 
  inputattach
  jockey-common
  jockey-gtk
  jockey-kde
  kio-umountwrapper
  libcanberra-gnome
  libcryptui0
  libdca0
  libebackend1.2-0
  libedataserver1.2-11 
  libemeraldengine0
  libfaac0
  libgp11-0 
  nvidia-settings
Maybe this one belongs in contrib?
  pxljr 
  python-apport 
  python-bittorrent 
  python-cupshelpers
  python-gconf 
  python-gnomecanvas
  python-problem-report 
  python-virtkey
  python-xkit
  seahorse-plugins
  smartdimmer 
  system-config-printer-kde
Planned on next KDE major version, per Sune's message.
  update-motd 
  upstart 
  upstart-compat-sysv
  upstart-logd 

A large number of those are lib* and python*. Those are not interesting
as-is to users, but may be pre-requirements for packaging other stuff.

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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Josselin Mouette]

Le lundi 01 décembre 2008 à 10:26 +, Tzafrir Cohen a écrit :
   libcamel1.2-14 
   libgnome-desktop-2-7
   libgucharmap7

Already in experimental or soon to be.

   libcryptui0

Different packaging.

   libebackend1.2-0
   libedataserver1.2-11 

New versions, soon to be in experimental.

   python-cupshelpers

Called python-cupsutils for the moment, will be renamed.

   python-gconf 
   python-gnomecanvas

We’ll probably split gnome-python* more thoroughly to help deprecate a
number of modules.

   seahorse-plugins

Soon in experimental.

Cheers,
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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Steve Langasek]

On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 10:26:51AM +, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
 Stuff that will not be in main. It's great stuff for off-topic threads:

 Non-free patented:
   avidemux 
   dvdrip
   gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse
   gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse 
   lame
   transcode 
   vlc-plugin-pulse 

There's nothing patented about the pulseaudio plugin for VLC.  It's in
multiverse because that's where vlc lives in Ubuntu.

 non-free/contrib:
   gstreamer0.10-pitfdll
   mencoder
   mjpegtools
   nspluginwrapper

I'm not clear on why this one is in multiverse in the first place, it
appears to be licensed under the GPL.

 Different Packaging:
   bluez 

Mainly because Debian is behind a release on this, I think.

 Ubuntu-specific?:
   launchpad-integration
   liblaunchpad-integration1
   python-launchpad-bugs
   python-launchpad-integration

Not specific to Ubuntu; whether there'll be interest in having these in
Debian is another matter.

   onboard 

Also not specific to Ubuntu, just not packaged for Debian yet.

   powermanagement-interface

Not likely to be useful per se, but only if someone finds it useful to have
other packages using the interface.

   ufw 

Not specific to Ubuntu, though I'm not sure whether the implementation is in
a state currently where it warrants entertaining in Debian.

   binutils-static 
 What's the point of that one?

Providing a minimal binutils package that can be used for linking non-free
kernel modules.

Cheers,
-- 
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Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Marco d'Itri]

On Dec 01, Gunnar Wolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 But anyway, and knowing this is not an Ubuntu list... Does anybody
 know why on Earth is Acroread popular? Why isn't a PDF regularly
I need it to view some large/complex PDF files with reasonable
performace.
Developers of free PDF viewers feel free to contact me for a copy...

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Marco


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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Reinhard Tartler]

Gunnar Wolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Does anybody know why on Earth is Acroread popular?

it is the only pdf viewer I know of that features full text search over
several PDFs. An increadibly useful feature if you have a heap of PDFs
and you don't know in what file exactly the information is you are
looking for

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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[David Paleino]

On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 10:26:51 +, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:

 The following strike me at first as a bit Ubuntu-specific. That is not 
 to say that that they are not interesting. Please don't flame here but 
 point out those interesting packages for Debian.
 
 Ubuntu-specific?:
   [..]
   kubuntu-artwork-usplash
   [..]
   launchpad-integration
   liblaunchpad-integration1
   [..]
   python-launchpad-bugs
   python-launchpad-integration

These are all Ubuntu-specific to me.

   restricted-manager 
   restricted-manager-core

I was kinda working on it, and had something ready, but seems like I lost my
sources :(.
If someone else wants to do it before I do...

   [..]
   usplash-theme-ubuntu 

This is and must be Ubuntu-specific, I believe.

   [..]
   dkms 

I'm working on it already, pkg-dkms on Alioth.

   [..]
   upstart 
   upstart-compat-sysv
   upstart-logd 

$ LANG=C apt-cache policy upstart
upstart:
  Installed: 0.3.9-1
  Candidate: 0.3.9-1
  Version table:
 *** 0.3.9-1 0
  1 http://debian.fastweb.it experimental/main Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status

Kindly,
David

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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Jean-Christophe Dubacq]

Marco d'Itri a écrit :
 On Dec 01, Gunnar Wolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 But anyway, and knowing this is not an Ubuntu list... Does anybody
 know why on Earth is Acroread popular? Why isn't a PDF regularly
 I need it to view some large/complex PDF files with reasonable
 performace.
 Developers of free PDF viewers feel free to contact me for a copy...

I also have files that are too complex to render in short time when
zooming. I also found a bug for the rendering of Axial Shadings in all
free renderers. The details are here:

http://jean-christophe.dubacq.fr/post/Why-do-I-prefer-Acrobat-Reader-to-other-free-PDF-readers

I remember giving these details to some developers on irc at the
beginning of the xpdf development, but I was too lazy to find the
correct bugzilla and enter a minimal example file.

I usually use xpdf for daily work. But sometimes, xpdf does not cut the
mustard.


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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Florian Weimer]

* Marco d'Itri:

 On Dec 01, Gunnar Wolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 But anyway, and knowing this is not an Ubuntu list... Does anybody
 know why on Earth is Acroread popular? Why isn't a PDF regularly

 I need it to view some large/complex PDF files with reasonable
 performace.

Have you tried evince? For some reason, it used to be faster than the
other free viewers (including xpdf itself).


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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Josselin Mouette]

Le lundi 01 décembre 2008 à 14:02 +0100, Reinhard Tartler a écrit :
  Does anybody know why on Earth is Acroread popular?
 
 it is the only pdf viewer I know of that features full text search over
 several PDFs. An increadibly useful feature if you have a heap of PDFs
 and you don't know in what file exactly the information is you are
 looking for

We also have tracker and beagle, which do that and much more.

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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Jonathan McDowell]

On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 06:04:50PM +0100, Florian Weimer wrote:
 * Marco d'Itri:
  On Dec 01, Gunnar Wolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  But anyway, and knowing this is not an Ubuntu list... Does anybody
  know why on Earth is Acroread popular? Why isn't a PDF regularly
 
  I need it to view some large/complex PDF files with reasonable
  performace.
 
 Have you tried evince? For some reason, it used to be faster than the
 other free viewers (including xpdf itself).

Did evince ever get support for PDF annotations? I found myself having
to install Adobe Reader to try and get shared document review working,
which seems to use the annotation with XML files feature.
 
J.


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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Andreas Metzler]

Henning Glawe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 08:59:31PM -0600, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
 But anyway, and knowing this is not an Ubuntu list... Does anybody
 know why on Earth is Acroread popular?

 Do you know any alternative PDF viewer which can be used to fill out PDF
 forms? My employer uses them quite a lot for things like travel expense
 reports...

Evince. (Since lenny, etch's version is too old.)
cu andreas
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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Florian Weimer]

* Jonathan McDowell:

 On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 06:04:50PM +0100, Florian Weimer wrote:
 * Marco d'Itri:
  On Dec 01, Gunnar Wolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  But anyway, and knowing this is not an Ubuntu list... Does anybody
  know why on Earth is Acroread popular? Why isn't a PDF regularly
 
  I need it to view some large/complex PDF files with reasonable
  performace.
 
 Have you tried evince? For some reason, it used to be faster than the
 other free viewers (including xpdf itself).

 Did evince ever get support for PDF annotations?

No one doubts that nothing is as feature-laden as Adobe Reader.
Evince probably lacks video, Flash and Javascript support as well.


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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Marco d'Itri]

On Dec 01, Florian Weimer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Have you tried evince? For some reason, it used to be faster than the
 other free viewers (including xpdf itself).
Yes. Nowadays it's better indeed: after freezing the UI for 30 seconds
while the CPU spins at full speed and reaching a RSS of 150 MB I can
scroll over the whole document without other delays, which is almost
acceptable for my purpose.
Too bad it does not support a zoom level over 400%.

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Marco


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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Norbert Preining]

On Mo, 01 Dez 2008, Marco d'Itri wrote:
 Yes. Nowadays it's better indeed: after freezing the UI for 30 seconds
 while the CPU spins at full speed and reaching a RSS of 150 MB I can

Agreed, it is an overloaded something, unfortunately still xpdf is the
only decent replacement, but it lacks s many things.

To the guy who was rejecting annotations, please come back to real
world, often I get back my articles from the publisher as pdf with
annotations, and I have to add the changes with annotations. Umpf yes,
that *is* real world. 

Still I have to have acroread hanging around, without it it is still in
many cases a no-go.

Ciao

Norbert

---
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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Jean-Christophe Dubacq]

Marco d'Itri a écrit :
 On Dec 01, Florian Weimer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Have you tried evince? For some reason, it used to be faster than the
 other free viewers (including xpdf itself).
 Yes. Nowadays it's better indeed: after freezing the UI for 30 seconds
 while the CPU spins at full speed and reaching a RSS of 150 MB I can
 scroll over the whole document without other delays, which is almost
 acceptable for my purpose.
 Too bad it does not support a zoom level over 400%.

That would be because Evince (as does xpdf, and probably others) render
the whole file, even though the display window shows only a small part
of the file. I often zoom at 800%, sometimes 1600%, on a A0 map.


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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Jonathan McDowell]

On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 08:10:36PM +0100, Florian Weimer wrote:
 * Jonathan McDowell:
 
  On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 06:04:50PM +0100, Florian Weimer wrote:
  * Marco d'Itri:
   On Dec 01, Gunnar Wolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   But anyway, and knowing this is not an Ubuntu list... Does anybody
   know why on Earth is Acroread popular? Why isn't a PDF regularly
  
   I need it to view some large/complex PDF files with reasonable
   performace.
  
  Have you tried evince? For some reason, it used to be faster than the
  other free viewers (including xpdf itself).
 
  Did evince ever get support for PDF annotations?
 
 No one doubts that nothing is as feature-laden as Adobe Reader.

That wasn't the point I was trying to make; I was asking a genuine
question about the status of evince (and would have been delighted to
have been pointed at a repo with experimental code I could try out).
 
J.


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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Norbert Preining]

On Mo, 01 Dez 2008, Jean-Christophe Dubacq wrote:
 That would be because Evince (as does xpdf, and probably others) render
 the whole file, even though the display window shows only a small part

Right, and that is a pain. A friend has programmed a Windows version
using fltk, texlua (lua interpreter with TeX bindings) and we ship it in
TeX Live, but it works only on Windows (till now). The point is that it
can zoom in arbitrarily, I mean *really* deep, examining the single
curves of letters ...

That would be something I *really* would like to have.

Best wishes

Norbert

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is considered sufficient).
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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Marco d'Itri]

On Dec 01, Jean-Christophe Dubacq [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 That would be because Evince (as does xpdf, and probably others) render
 the whole file, even though the display window shows only a small part
 of the file. I often zoom at 800%, sometimes 1600%, on a A0 map.
How? The user interface only allows me to zoom up to 400%.

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Marco


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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Michael Banck]

On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 10:19:42PM +, Jonathan McDowell wrote:
 That wasn't the point I was trying to make; I was asking a genuine
 question about the status of evince (and would have been delighted to
 have been pointed at a repo with experimental code I could try out).

Were you looking for http://svn.gnome.org?


Michael


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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Sven Arvidsson]

On Mon, 2008-12-01 at 22:41 +0100, Jean-Christophe Dubacq wrote:
 That would be because Evince (as does xpdf, and probably others) render
 the whole file, even though the display window shows only a small part
 of the file. 

Fixing this is on the roadmap[0] for Evince 2.26, but I don't know if
anyone is really working on it.

In the upstream bug report[1], it's described as quite hard to fix.

0. http://live.gnome.org/Evince/Roadmap
1. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=303365

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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Craigevil]

While not in official Debian repos, the ones that aren't in non-free are in
the Debian-multimedia.org repo and quite a few are in backports.org. While a
few are Ubuntu specific packages, that would have little to no value in
Debian.


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Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Petter Reinholdtsen]

To see which popular packages are missing in Debian/main at the
moment, I decided to compare the list of popular pckaages in Ubuntu
with the list of packages in Debian/main.  The result was interesting.

There are at the moment 823762 reports colleected in
popcon.ubuntu.com.  I decided to use 5000 (~0.6%) installations as the
cutoff point defining popular, as 5000 installations could be seen
as quite a significant user base, even if it is a very small fraction
of the user base..  This gave me a list of 1543 packages in Ubuntu.
There are 31595 debian/main packages listed as used by
popcon.debian.org, and comparing these lists give this list of 152
packages only in Ubuntu and not in Debian/main:

  acroread acroread-escript adobe-flashplugin apparmor apparmor-utils
  apport apturl avidemux binutils-static bluez bluez-gstreamer
  busybox-initramfs compiz-wrapper displayconfig-gtk dkms dvdrip
  emerald example-content firefox-2 firefox-3.0 firefox-3.0-branding
  firefox-3.0-gnome-support gdebi-kde gstreamer0.10-pitfdll
  gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse
  gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse hwdb-client-common
  hwdb-client-gnome hwtest hwtest-gtk iceauth inputattach
  jockey-common jockey-gtk jockey-kde kdebase-workspace-bin
  kde-window-manager kio-umountwrapper kubuntu-artwork-usplash lame
  landscape-common language-pack-de language-pack-de-base
  language-pack-en language-pack-en-base language-pack-es
  language-pack-es-base language-pack-fr language-pack-fr-base
  language-selector language-selector-common launchpad-integration
  libbluetooth3 libcamel1.2-14 libcanberra-gnome libcryptui0 libdca0
  libebackend1.2-0 libedataserver1.2-11 libemeraldengine0 libfaac0
  libgnome-desktop-2-7 libgp11-0 libgucharmap7
  liblaunchpad-integration1 libltdl7 libplasma2 linux-firmware
  linux-headers-2.6.24-21 linux-headers-2.6.24-21-generic
  linux-headers-2.6.27-7 linux-headers-2.6.27-7-generic
  linux-image-2.6.22-14-generic linux-image-2.6.22-15-generic
  linux-image-2.6.24-16-generic linux-image-2.6.24-19-generic
  linux-image-2.6.24-21-generic linux-image-2.6.27-7-generic
  linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24-19-generic
  linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24-21-generic
  linux-restricted-modules-common
  linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24-19-generic
  linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24-21-generic mencoder mjpegtools
  nspluginwrapper nvidia-173-modaliases nvidia-177-kernel-source
  nvidia-177-modaliases nvidia-71-modaliases nvidia-96-modaliases
  nvidia-common nvidia-glx nvidia-glx-177 nvidia-glx-new
  nvidia-settings onboard openoffice.org-l10n-common
  openoffice.org-style-human opera picasa powermanagement-interface
  pxljr python-apport python-bittorrent python-cupshelpers
  python-gconf python-gnomecanvas python-launchpad-bugs
  python-launchpad-integration python-problem-report python-virtkey
  python-xkit rar restricted-manager restricted-manager-core
  seahorse-plugins sessreg skype smartdimmer soprano-daemon
  sun-java5-bin sun-java5-jre sun-java6-bin sun-java6-jdk
  sun-java6-jre system-config-printer-common
  system-config-printer-gnome system-config-printer-kde sysvutils
  transcode ufw unrar update-motd upstart upstart-compat-sysv
  upstart-logd usb-creator usplash-theme-ubuntu virtualbox
  virtualbox-2.0 vlc-plugin-pulse volumeid w32codecs xdpyinfo xkbutils
  xmodmap xorg-driver-fglrx xrdb xset xsetroot xvinfo

I was a bit surprised that there were so few popular packages missing
in Debian/main.  A lot of these packages are due to different package
structure or other differences between Debian and Ubuntu, while others
are already available in contrib or non-free (like sun-java*).

A lot of the rest is multimedia related (like avidemux, lame,
mencoder, mjpegtools, transcode) which would be very nice to have
available in Debian.  The onboard package for example seem to be
related to accessibility support.  Should we try to get any of these
packages into Debian/main?

This is how I made the list:

  GET http://popcon.ubuntu.com/by_vote.gz | gunzip  ubuntu-by_vote-all
  GET http://popcon.debian.org/main/by_vote.gz | gunzip  debian-by_vote-main
  grep -v '#' ubuntu-by_vote-all |awk '$4  1 {print $2}' | \
sort  ubuntu-popular
  awk '{print $2}' debian-by_vote-main | sort  debian-main
  comm -23 ubuntu-popular debian-main

Happy hacking,
-- 
Petter Reinholdtsen


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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Paul Wise]

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 12:05 AM, Petter Reinholdtsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Should we try to get any of these packages into Debian/main?

I think it is up to their Ubuntu maintainers or any Debian people who
use them or want them in Debian to get them into Debian
main/contrib/non-free.

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pabs

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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Michael Banck]

On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 04:05:09PM +0100, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
 comparing these lists give this list of 152
 packages only in Ubuntu and not in Debian/main:
 
   acroread 

It would be useful to (i) only include packages from Ubuntu
universe/main, and (ii) maybe edit it a bit to remove the kernel
packages etc.


Otherwise, that's a great list to have!

Michael


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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Sune Vuorela]

On 2008-11-30, Petter Reinholdtsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   kdebase-workspace-bin
   kde-window-manager 

is in experimental.

   system-config-printer-common
   system-config-printer-gnome 

I am planning to request this split of system-config-printer quite soon,
so that we when next kde major release can have

   system-config-printer-kde 

/Sune


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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Steve Langasek]

On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 06:06:38PM +0100, Michael Banck wrote:
 On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 04:05:09PM +0100, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
  comparing these lists give this list of 152
  packages only in Ubuntu and not in Debian/main:

acroread 

 It would be useful to (i) only include packages from Ubuntu
 universe/main,

and perhaps to exclude packages that are no longer distributed by Ubuntu -
the only still-supported Ubuntu release that includes acroread is Ubuntu
6.06 LTS, it's not present in Ubuntu 7.10 or later.

Cheers,
-- 
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Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/
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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Gunnar Wolf]

Petter Reinholdtsen dijo [Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 04:05:09PM +0100]:
 (...)
   acroread acroread-escript

FWIW, I find this quite strange... I know many non-FS users assume
that the good PDF reader is the Acrobat PDF reader. However, I find it
quite inferior both in usability and on quality to evince - Even now
that evince does properly(?) support provisions disallowing copying
from or printing a PDF.

But anyway, and knowing this is not an Ubuntu list... Does anybody
know why on Earth is Acroread popular? Why isn't a PDF regularly
handled in a saner way with Evince (or kde-based lookalike) in some
distributions?

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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Daniel Moerner]

With regard to the thread proper: As far as packages that are not
currently in Debian, dkms has already obviously been discussed.
apturl seems interesting, however.

On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 6:59 PM, Gunnar Wolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Petter Reinholdtsen dijo [Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 04:05:09PM +0100]:
 (...)
   acroread acroread-escript

 FWIW, I find this quite strange... I know many non-FS users assume
 that the good PDF reader is the Acrobat PDF reader. However, I find it
 quite inferior both in usability and on quality to evince - Even now
 that evince does properly(?) support provisions disallowing copying
 from or printing a PDF.

 But anyway, and knowing this is not an Ubuntu list... Does anybody
 know why on Earth is Acroread popular? Why isn't a PDF regularly
 handled in a saner way with Evince (or kde-based lookalike) in some
 distributions?

Evince cannot properly zoom in on some pdfs.  Compare pdfs at 200%
zoom downloaded from JSTOR (a commonly used and rather expensive
database collection) in evince and acroread.  Evince has notably
inferior quality in this regard.

Also, prior to kde4, kpdf did not support rotation, which explains why
acroread as an alternative would have been popular.

-- 
Daniel Moerner [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Paul Wise]

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Daniel Moerner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 apturl seems interesting, however.

Debian already has aptlinex so apturl isn't needed. Might be a good
idea for the two upstreams of these packages to get them merged.

-- 
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pabs

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Re: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main

[Daniel Baumann]

Gunnar Wolf wrote:
 Does anybody
 know why on Earth is Acroread popular?

There are some features that are present in e.g. evince, but are,
arguable though, more 'advanced' implemented in adobe reader (e.g.
better zooming capabilities as alreayd someone said).

however, there are two 'features' that are atm completely specific to
adobe reader: CMYK support and support of displaying certain DRM locked
ebooks and such, that do dynamically 'reload' pages from sub-files (many
computer magazine archive cds do that).

I think most people that use adobe reader use it because they just
*think* it is the better reader, which it is in most cases not. or
because they don't know that with mozplugger, you can use evince to
behave like adobes pdf plugin.

Regards,
Daniel

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Why is acroread so popular? (Was: Popular packages in Ubuntu that is missing in Debian/main)

[Petter Reinholdtsen]

[Gunnar Wolf]
 But anyway, and knowing this is not an Ubuntu list... Does anybody
 know why on Earth is Acroread popular? Why isn't a PDF regularly
 handled in a saner way with Evince (or kde-based lookalike) in some
 distributions?

It is also popular in Debian.  I asked the same question over at
debian-edu@, and got a lot of replies.  I recommend looking at
URL:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg13528.html
for that thread.

Happy hacking,
-- 
Petter Reinholdtsen


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