Hi,
Le Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 07:22:11PM +0200, Marco d'Itri a écrit :
On Sep 23, Ralf Jung p...@ralfj.de wrote:
I've seen multiple machines, including older machines of myself, to be
under full disk load for at least several minutes due to (some form of)
locate - every time the cronjob runs.
]] Josh Triplett
Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
]] Josh Triplett
- mlocate. We don't need a locate in standard; anyone who actually
uses locate (and wants the very significant overhead of running a
locate daemon) can easily install this.
There is no «locate daemon» in mlocate.
Hi,
s/daemon/cron job/g
Then I disagree with your claim about «very significant overhead». Even
on spinning rust, mlocate is pretty quick since it does a good bunch of
optimisations to avoid re-indexing unchanged directories. Maybe your
perception has been marred by slocate and the
On Sep 23, Ralf Jung p...@ralfj.de wrote:
I've seen multiple machines, including older machines of myself, to be
under full disk load for at least several minutes due to (some form of)
locate - every time the cronjob runs. The slowdown was noticeable,
This is hard to believe, since the cron
Le Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 07:22:11PM +0200, Marco d'Itri a écrit :
On Sep 23, Ralf Jung p...@ralfj.de wrote:
I've seen multiple machines, including older machines of myself, to be
under full disk load for at least several minutes due to (some form of)
locate - every time the cronjob runs.
On 17 Sep 2014, at 07:58, Ansgar Burchardt ans...@debian.org wrote:
That's why *both* should be installed by default. Then everybody will be
happy.
To keep the (bad) joke going, I was going to suggest gnu zile be made standard,
but even *that* is pretty big.
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On 17 Sep 2014, at 08:24, envite env...@rolamasao.org wrote:
Having one easy text editor in command line is necessary. Both nano or joe
will make that target. None of emacs nor vi does: they are not as easy.
I really think *some* vi implementation should be in standard. It's true,
those
Noel Torres env...@rolamasao.org writes:
On Tuesday, 16 de September de 2014 22:17:51 Joerg Jaspert escribió:
On 13698 March 1977, Didier Raboud wrote:
One thought... there will probably be trademark concerns with
unix.[1] So we might have to choose a name for the tasksel task
to be
does: they are not as easy.
Regards
Noel
Enviado de Samsung Mobile
Mensaje original
De: Ansgar Burchardt ans...@debian.org
Fecha:17/09/2014 7:58 (GMT+00:00)
Para: debian-devel@lists.debian.org
Asunto: Re: Trimming priority:standard
Noel Torres env...@rolamasao.org writes
Le mardi, 16 septembre 2014, 23.17:51 Joerg Jaspert a écrit :
On 13698 March 1977, Didier Raboud wrote:
One thought... there will probably be trademark concerns with
unix.[1] So we might have to choose a name for the tasksel task
to be someting like unix-like.
Or we could just call
Theodore Ts'o writes (Re: Trimming priority:standard):
That being said, if there are Debian users who are not Unix-heads,
they aren't going to miss any of these. What if we create a tasksel
task called Unix that installs these traditional Unix commands from
the BSD 4.x era? It would include
On Sep 16, James McCoy james...@debian.org wrote:
The very informed/knowledgeable user isn't the one that soured my
perception of the choice to have vim-tiny provide /usr/bin/vim. It's
Still, as I explained it is very useful since the footprint of the full
vim is an order of magnitude bigger.
On Sunday, 14 de September de 2014 17:04:10 Stefano Zacchiroli escribió:
On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 11:17:34AM -0700, Josh Triplett wrote:
I'm not arguing that standard should have nothing in it; it should
have things that the vast majority of users will 1) expect to find
present without
On 13698 March 1977, Didier Raboud wrote:
One thought... there will probably be trademark concerns with
unix.[1] So we might have to choose a name for the tasksel task
to be someting like unix-like.
Or we could just call it standard system.
Could we make sure the full vim is in that then?
On Tuesday, 16 de September de 2014 22:17:51 Joerg Jaspert escribió:
On 13698 March 1977, Didier Raboud wrote:
One thought... there will probably be trademark concerns with
unix.[1] So we might have to choose a name for the tasksel task
to be someting like unix-like.
Or we could
Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
]] Josh Triplett
- mlocate. We don't need a locate in standard; anyone who actually
uses locate (and wants the very significant overhead of running a
locate daemon) can easily install this.
There is no «locate daemon» in mlocate.
s/daemon/cron job/g
-
Am Freitag, den 12.09.2014, 08:59 +0200 schrieb Fabian Greffrath:
apt-listchanges aptitude aptitude-common at bash-completion bc dc bind9-host
Why is aptitude still in this list?
This has not been answered yet?!
- Fabian
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On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 03:44:46AM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
You want 'nc myserver 25', as 'telnet myserver 25' will misbehave on 0xff
bytes. A malicious server can do pretty surprising things to you, too.
You're both wrong; you want swaks(1).
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On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 06:27:38PM +0100, Simon McVittie wrote:
On 12/09/14 18:19, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
One thought... there will probably be trademark concerns with unix.[1]
So we might have to choose a name for the tasksel task to be someting
like unix-like.
Perhaps
On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 03:49:11PM +0200, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
bc is the standard Unix calculator, normally a dc frontend,
and used in *a lot* of scripts.
Is there any way of verifying or even reasonably estimating how common it is
used? *Within* debian, sadly it's hard to ascertain via
Hi,
On Montag, 15. September 2014, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
Perhaps
task-traditional -- Traditional Unix utilities
I quite like that.
FWIW, me too. (I also liked task-unix or task-unix-like, but less.)
Thanks for cleaning up priority:standard!
cheers,
Holger
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On Mon, 2014-09-15 at 14:53 +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 03:49:11PM +0200, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
bc is the standard Unix calculator, normally a dc frontend,
and used in *a lot* of scripts.
Is there any way of verifying or even reasonably estimating how common it
Hi,
Jonathan Dowland:
On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 03:49:11PM +0200, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
bc is the standard Unix calculator, normally a dc frontend,
and used in *a lot* of scripts.
Is there any way of verifying or even reasonably estimating how common it is
used? *Within* debian, sadly
James McCoy wrote:
I keep contemplating packaging ex-vi and advocating to replace vim-tiny
with that. After all, the intent is to have something providing
/usr/bin/vi, as one expects to have on a *nix system, so why not have it
actually be vi?
The package is already done.
apt-cache show
On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 10:56:16AM -0600, Bob Proulx wrote:
James McCoy wrote:
I keep contemplating packaging ex-vi and advocating to replace vim-tiny
with that. After all, the intent is to have something providing
/usr/bin/vi, as one expects to have on a *nix system, so why not have it
James McCoy wrote:
Bob Proulx wrote:
James McCoy wrote:
I keep contemplating packaging ex-vi and advocating to replace vim-tiny
with that. After all, the intent is to have something providing
/usr/bin/vi, as one expects to have on a *nix system, so why not have it
actually be vi?
Am 13.09.2014 um 12:58 schrieb Didier 'OdyX' Raboud:
Le vendredi, 12 septembre 2014, 13.55:53 Joey Hess a écrit :
Theodore Ts'o wrote:
One thought... there will probably be trademark concerns with
unix.[1] So we might have to choose a name for the tasksel task
to be someting like unix-like.
Bob Proulx b...@proulx.com writes:
James McCoy wrote:
I keep contemplating packaging ex-vi and advocating to replace vim-tiny
with that. After all, the intent is to have something providing
/usr/bin/vi, as one expects to have on a *nix system, so why not have
it actually be vi?
The
On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 06:16:47PM +0200, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
And perl, which has the advantage of an '-e' switch.
Or [m]awk, which is even Required (is there still a reason for that?).
AWK is mentioned in the Single UNIX Specification as one of the
mandatory utilities of a Unix operating
I wonder whether the POV in this discussion is right. I have the impression
that the discussion is about the removal of old packages.
Squeeze had 91 standard packages, now there are 108. The latest one:
doc-debian. When libsqlcipher0 (1) hit standard I also had doubts that its
functionality
On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 10:07:08PM +0200, Jonas Meurer wrote:
Am 13.09.2014 um 12:58 schrieb Didier 'OdyX' Raboud:
Le vendredi, 12 septembre 2014, 13.55:53 Joey Hess a écrit :
Theodore Ts'o wrote:
One thought... there will probably be trademark concerns with
unix.[1] So we might have to
On Sep 16, James McCoy james...@debian.org wrote:
As I said in my other reply, the intent of vim-tiny is to provide a vi
command. The fact that it is using Vim to do so is the means, not the
end.
I think it's more complex than this: I like vim-tiny because I can use
it on small images
On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 03:54:21AM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
On Sep 16, James McCoy james...@debian.org wrote:
As I said in my other reply, the intent of vim-tiny is to provide a vi
command. The fact that it is using Vim to do so is the means, not the
end.
I think it's more complex
Hi,
from personal experience, I agree that the packages with priority
standard need to be reconsidered. I don't really care about bc, dc, w3m
and similar tools - I never use then, but then, they only need a few KiB
so I wouldn't mind if they were installed nontheless. However, there are
4
On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 11:17:34AM -0700, Josh Triplett wrote:
I'm not arguing that standard should have nothing in it; it should
have things that the vast majority of users will 1) expect to find
present without having to install them and 2) actually use or care
about.
I sympathize with the
Le vendredi, 12 septembre 2014, 13.55:53 Joey Hess a écrit :
Theodore Ts'o wrote:
One thought... there will probably be trademark concerns with
unix.[1] So we might have to choose a name for the tasksel task
to be someting like unix-like.
Or we could just call it standard system.
Could
On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 12:58:04PM +0200, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
Le vendredi, 12 septembre 2014, 13.55:53 Joey Hess a écrit :
Theodore Ts'o wrote:
One thought... there will probably be trademark concerns with
unix.[1] So we might have to choose a name for the tasksel task
to be
]] Josh Triplett
- mlocate. We don't need a locate in standard; anyone who actually
uses locate (and wants the very significant overhead of running a
locate daemon) can easily install this.
There is no «locate daemon» in mlocate.
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just
Just wait for systemd-emacs. It would obsolete... all of gnuserv!
Silly people.
https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/systemd-emacs-daemon/
http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EmacsAsDaemon#toc8
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2014-01/msg00996.html
--
bye, Joerg
It's not that I'm
On 12/09/2014 18:41, Josh Triplett wrote:
...I think this makes more sense: *neither* version of Make should have
priority standard. Bug filed.
[And lots of other utility also requested to be removed from Standard
priority..]
When I see that 'make' and other well-known programs should not
El vie, 12 de sep 2014 a las 10:12 , Theodore Ts'o ty...@mit.edu
escribió:
On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 03:12:47PM +0100, Simon McVittie wrote:
(Admittedly, cron has to be Priority:important anyway, to support
logrotate - until/unless someone adds a logrotate.timer for
systemd, and
makes its
Vincent Danjean wrote:
On 12/09/2014 18:41, Josh Triplett wrote:
...I think this makes more sense: *neither* version of Make should have
priority standard. Bug filed.
[And lots of other utility also requested to be removed from Standard
priority..]
When I see that 'make' and other
apt-listchanges aptitude aptitude-common at bash-completion bc dc bind9-host
Why is aptitude still in this list?
Please keep telnet.
- Fabian
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Adam Borowski kilob...@angband.pl writes:
What would you guys say about cutting some cruft from priority:standard?
Yay.
bind9-host dnsutils host libbind9-90 libdns100 libisc95 liblwres90
Is the BIND libraries pulled in just because of 'host'? Seems rather
heavy to me. Anyway, the 'host'
Quoting Russ Allbery (2014-09-12 04:41:19)
wamerican provides /usr/share/dict/words, which is widely used in a
variety of strange places you wouldn't expect, like random test
suites.
How about the more generic (but also slightly larger) miscwords for that
instead.
- Jonas
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* Jonas
Adam Borowski wrote:
What would you guys say about cutting some cruft from priority:standard?
Yes please! I've been poking at this for a while, trying to reduce the
number of installed-by-default packages; I've filed quite a few bugs,
some of which have gotten fixed.
The current list is:
* Josh Triplett j...@joshtriplett.org, 2014-09-12, 00:55:
- gettext-base. Supports internationalized shell scripts; anything
using this depends on it, and nothing in standard or above does.
select-editor uses it: #728612
(I can't fathom why this tool exists in the first place.)
--
Jakub Wilk
Josh Triplett j...@joshtriplett.org writes:
Now that libc-bin contains C.UTF-8, which we should make the default
locale, [...]
It would be nice to get Debian's support for C.UTF-8 pushed to upstream
glibc. At present, it's patched in by some (not all) distributions,
which means that upstream
Josh Triplett j...@joshtriplett.org writes:
- make-guile. More of a question than a recommendation for a change,
but why is this standard and make optional, rather than the other way
around?
Is this mostly about naming? GNU Make has guile-support by default, so
I would say that 'make'
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014, Josh Triplett wrote:
* dc: a RPN calculator is pretty esoteric, bc is for normal people.
Just filed a bug for that one.
I'd actually argue that both bc and dc should become optional.
*no*!
bc is the standard Unix calculator, normally a dc frontend,
and used in *a
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 07:41:19PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
* telnet: dead for 19 years. Used only by those who misspell 'nc' and hope
for no 0xff bytes.
* wamerican: what use is a wordlist with no users?
Both of these fall under the anyone familiar with UNIX would go 'where
the
On 12/09/14 14:56, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
What if we create a tasksel
task called Unix that installs these traditional Unix commands from
the BSD 4.x era? It would include dc, m4, /usr/dict/words, telnet,
etc.
I was just about to suggest that myself. at, cron, an MTA, and locate
seem good
Le 12/09/2014 15:49, Thorsten Glaser a écrit :
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014, Josh Triplett wrote:
[...]
bc is the standard Unix calculator, normally a dc frontend,
and used in *a lot* of scripts.
[...]
Eh sorry? at+cron are standard Unix.
[...]
But then, an MTA configured to listen and deliver
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014, Thibaut Paumard wrote:
I agree that all those tools belong to a standard UNIX system. However,
is that among our goals to provide people with a standard UNIX system by
This is not about “by default”, but it *is* the definition
of priority:standard in Debian.
And yes, it’s
Le 12/09/2014 16:23, Thorsten Glaser a écrit :
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014, Thibaut Paumard wrote:
I agree that all those tools belong to a standard UNIX system. However,
is that among our goals to provide people with a standard UNIX system by
This is not about “by default”, but it *is* the
Simon McVittie wrote:
On 12/09/14 14:56, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
What if we create a tasksel
task called Unix that installs these traditional Unix commands from
the BSD 4.x era? It would include dc, m4, /usr/dict/words, telnet,
etc.
I was just about to suggest that myself. at, cron, an MTA, and
Le 12/09/2014 16:33, Thibaut Paumard a écrit :
Le 12/09/2014 16:23, Thorsten Glaser a écrit :
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014, Thibaut Paumard wrote:
I agree that all those tools belong to a standard UNIX system. However,
is that among our goals to provide people with a standard UNIX system by
This is
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014, Thibaut Paumard wrote:
No, it's not. The actual definition is very vague and does not refer to
Oh, my bad. I confused this with priority:important then.
So we should probably *raise* the priority of things like
bc, ed, etc. to important.
bye,
//mirabilos
--
Le 12/09/2014 16:37, Thorsten Glaser a écrit :
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014, Thibaut Paumard wrote:
No, it's not. The actual definition is very vague and does not refer to
Oh, my bad. I confused this with priority:important then.
So we should probably *raise* the priority of things like
bc, ed,
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014, Josh Triplett wrote:
* telnet: dead for 19 years. Used only by those who misspell 'nc' and hope
for no 0xff bytes.
A slight exaggeration. A client that uses the actual telnet protocol is
still invaluable for managing various fairly stupid devices.
Given the rarity
On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 02:36:09PM +0200, Simon Josefsson wrote:
Josh Triplett j...@joshtriplett.org writes:
- make-guile. More of a question than a recommendation for a change,
but why is this standard and make optional, rather than the other way
around?
Is this mostly about
On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 03:12:47PM +0100, Simon McVittie wrote:
(Admittedly, cron has to be Priority:important anyway, to support
logrotate - until/unless someone adds a logrotate.timer for systemd, and
makes its cron job early-return if systemd is pid 1.)
It's inevitable that systemd will
* Theodore Ts'o ty...@mit.edu, 2014-09-12, 13:12:
It's inevitable that systemd will subsume cron, with an incompatible
configuration file format. :-)
I'm looking forward for systemd-mta.
--
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One thought... there will probably be trademark concerns with unix.[1]
So we might have to choose a name for the tasksel task to be someting
like unix-like.
[1] http://www.unix.org/trademark.html
- Ted
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On 12/09/14 18:19, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
One thought... there will probably be trademark concerns with unix.[1]
So we might have to choose a name for the tasksel task to be someting
like unix-like.
Perhaps
task-traditional -- Traditional Unix utilities
? Or Un*x if you're that worried.
On Thu, 11 Sep 2014, Russ Allbery wrote:
wamerican provides /usr/share/dict/words, which is widely used in a
variety of strange places you wouldn't expect, like random test
suites.
If size is an issue, I'd also be OK with migrating wamerican-small to
standard (0.5M installed), and wamerican
Theodore Ts'o wrote:
One thought... there will probably be trademark concerns with unix.[1]
So we might have to choose a name for the tasksel task to be someting
like unix-like.
Or we could just call it standard system.
--
see shy jo
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Theodore Ts'o wrote:
On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 03:12:47PM +0100, Simon McVittie wrote:
(Admittedly, cron has to be Priority:important anyway, to support
logrotate - until/unless someone adds a logrotate.timer for systemd, and
makes its cron job early-return if systemd is pid 1.)
It's
On Sep 12, 2014, at 07:18 PM, Jakub Wilk wrote:
I'm looking forward for systemd-mta.
It's inevitable. ;)
http://catb.org/jargon/html/Z/Zawinskis-Law.html
-Barry
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On 09/12/2014 02:27 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
On Sep 12, 2014, at 07:18 PM, Jakub Wilk wrote:
I'm looking forward for systemd-mta.
It's inevitable. ;)
http://catb.org/jargon/html/Z/Zawinskis-Law.html
-Barry
Just wait for systemd-emacs. It would obsolete... all of gnuserv!
Hi,
Huh. I have been waiting for emacs/lisp/systemd.el
Manoj
On September 12, 2014 7:49:45 PM PDT, John Goerzen jgoer...@complete.org
wrote:
On 09/12/2014 02:27 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
On Sep 12, 2014, at 07:18 PM, Jakub Wilk wrote:
I'm looking forward for systemd-mta.
It's
Hi,
Edward Allcutt:
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014, Josh Triplett wrote:
* telnet: dead for 19 years. Used only by those who misspell 'nc' and hope
for no 0xff bytes.
A slight exaggeration. A client that uses the actual telnet protocol is
still invaluable for managing various fairly stupid
Meow!
What would you guys say about cutting some cruft from priority:standard?
The current list is:
apt-listchanges aptitude aptitude-common at bash-completion bc dc bind9-host
dnsutils host libbind9-90 libdns100 libisc95 liblwres90 bsd-mailx bzip2
libcwidget3 libsasl2-2 libsasl2-modules-db
On Sep 12, Adam Borowski kilob...@angband.pl wrote:
What would you guys say about cutting some cruft from priority:standard?
I like your plan (even if I have some doubts about telnet).
--
ciao,
Marco
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On Friday, September 12, 2014 02:43:09 Marco d'Itri wrote:
On Sep 12, Adam Borowski kilob...@angband.pl wrote:
What would you guys say about cutting some cruft from priority:standard?
I like your plan (even if I have some doubts about telnet).
Personally, I use telnet pretty routinely.
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 08:53:59PM -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote:
On Friday, September 12, 2014 02:43:09 Marco d'Itri wrote:
On Sep 12, Adam Borowski kilob...@angband.pl wrote:
What would you guys say about cutting some cruft from priority:standard?
I like your plan (even if I have some
Adam Borowski kilob...@angband.pl writes:
I'd start with:
* dc: a RPN calculator is pretty esoteric, bc is for normal people.
* db5.1-util: we're on db5.3, and I don't see much util here.
* m4: a really obscure language. Used basically only for autoconf scripts,
and that use is covered by
Scott Kitterman deb...@kitterman.com writes:
Personally, I use telnet pretty routinely. Generally when I'm acting as
a human pretending to be an MTA for troubleshooting purposes. I would
find it pretty surprising to find it absent.
Try nc. It works pretty well. :)
--
Russ Allbery
]] Russ Allbery
Scott Kitterman deb...@kitterman.com writes:
Personally, I use telnet pretty routinely. Generally when I'm acting as
a human pretending to be an MTA for troubleshooting purposes. I would
find it pretty surprising to find it absent.
Try nc. It works pretty well. :)
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